Dungeon Delve = Terrible idea

uri92

Hey,

Why would one company encourage its player base to not play their game ? Because actually, that's what is happening with Dungeon Delve. There is no point in running Dungeons while Dungeon Delve is off, because the final boss drops table is terrible. Many people simply log on, run dungeons while Dungeon Delve, and then log off or AFK while it's off for 5 hours because the chest from Dungeon Delve is a loot for your class while the boss drops HAMSTER most of the time and if it drops T2, it will probably won't be your class. Why this game doesn't want people to play it ? Why encouraging them to AFK or log off when Dungeon Delve is gone for 5 hours ? I don't get it, it's a very bad idea for a profit-oriented company... Moreover, this game is international, and the Dungeon Delve timer is pathetic... I mean, Dungeon Delve during night, work, or early morning, is pathetic... Some people come back home from work at 9:00 PM, and can't even get a dungeon delve before 0:00 AM, but they'll have to get to bed before that time, work you know...

So far, I have run around 50 epic Karrundax (I am cleric). All during Dungeon Delve. I looted 15 T2 Gaunts. 14 out of 15 were from the DD Chest. Among those gaunts, only ONE was Miracle Healer, and all others were either Beacon of Faith or Grand Templar. Karrundax himself only dropped ONE T2 cleric Gaunt, which was Beacon of Faith. That in mind, farming a T2 set with no Dungeon Delve is sadomasochism and a waste of gold. Some people might get very lucky, but I doubt anyone will contradict me.

Now let's wonder, why dungeons in this game is a race to whoever will glitch it the most to the point of reaching the final boss within a few minutes with the least time and effort possible ? Because Dungeon Delve lasts 1 hour, and then you have to wait 5 hours while you don't have anything to do if you like PVE dungeons. Moreover, the boss drops table is so terrible that you will be probably sick of all dungeons before you finally drop all your set on your own without buying it from Auction House. Especially if you are farming the best T2 of your class.

What is the solution ? Get rid of Dungeon Delve chest as a bonus and make the chest open in every dungeon. One could think of another dungeon bonus different from that chest, some bonus gold from enemies for exemple... bananskrue suggested this:

bananskrue wrote: »

How about this one:
Every dungeon drops a chest. The loot is BoP. During DD, the loot is BoE.
Tada.

I don't think that I am the only one being sick of not being able to run dungeons whenever I want to, because that Dungeon Delve is essential to have a chance of looting any T2, since the final boss drops are more a joke than a reward, and even DD chest rewards with many HAMSTER stuffs and few T2 stuffs, not even talking about best T2 sets... And the Drake sets are useless cause no set bonus...

Here are the changes I would like to see:

uri92 wrote:

-Dungeon Delve event should be removed or changed into something less essential (maybe only seals in chest)
-Drops should be Bound on Pickup
-Final Bosses should drop 1 piece of set, 100% (6,6% chances to loot the set you need, 5 classes, 3 sets per class)
-Drake/Unicorn Seals traders should sell the real Sets, not useless drake/unicorn versions with no set bonus

I can't wait for such changes... They are really needed.

kamilabii

Agreed. You have a point.

ennea

39 runs of karrundax , 3 speed runs per DD. 1 high general glove (GF) t2 from DD, and im still hunting for my timeless. Your 15 t2 gauntlets is like heaven to my loot drops ... And yes all my other friends wont do dungeons unless DD is on.

chuamishael

it was meant to be this way, so you guys will spend to buy more zen or use the blackmarket for cheap AD

zardoz007

Yes it's True, Drop rates are terrible, and if things go BoP then even the dungeon Delve will be useless.

But then again Dungeons also have the problems of swarms of adds ffrom the first fight to well after the boss is dead you are still fighting adds. maybe that once in the 5 hour thing is a poor trick so people dont get sick of the repetative dungeon design.

uri92

chuamishael wrote: »

it was meant to be this way, so you guys will spend to buy more zen or use the blackmarket for cheap AD

Then why are they going to make drops bound on pickup ?
I think you are mistaking.

ganjaman1

Outside the DD event the T2 dungeons set drops are at increased rate something among the lines of x 3 , people do not know that and still believe in these little chests that has the loot range of T1 blue rings and set items to T2 sets items and jewelry .

kerlaa

I still think they should have made it where everyone is rewarded for running a Dungeon. Maybe during the DD event they could have went with a slight increase to items drop stats. Think of it like a crafted item with the rank 1-3 stats. Maybe T1 reward for everyone non-DD event, T1.5 reward for everyone for DD event. T2 reward for everyone non-DD event, and T2.5 reward for DD event.

They would have to make the T1&T2 drops have enough stats however to meet requirements for the next tier of dungeon. IE a Half-Full set of T1 would still meet T2 GS requirements. Agree or disagree this is just my 2 coppers worth tho.

uri92

If you make DD stuffs more powerful than non-DD stuffs, that would make what I pointed in my thread even worse... Why would people enchant T2 gear if DD grants with T2.5 gears ?

I don't think that's a good idea, but that is simply my own opinion.

pinkfont

Because if there was no Dungeon Delves, I probably wouldn't bother running the dungeons at all? It's not fun and after spending 45 minutes do a grueling activity and not getting anything, I just spend the rest of the day in PvP where at least I'm enjoying myself. Though even the rewards in PvP suck now.

That seems to be a symptom in the game. Nothing feels rewarding unless you do it at specific times and in specific circumstances. Removing these circumstances isn't going to fix the problem though.

uri92

pinkfont wrote: »

Because if there was no Dungeon Delves, I probably wouldn't bother running the dungeons at all? It's not fun and after spending 45 minutes do a grueling activity and not getting anything, I just spend the rest of the day in PvP where at least I'm enjoying myself. Though even the rewards in PvP suck now.

That seems to be a symptom in the game. Nothing feels rewarding unless you do it at specific times and in specific circumstances. Removing these circumstances isn't going to fix the problem though.

That's why I suggested to make the chest open in every dungeon, and make DD gives a different bonus like more gold or whatever else.

llfritzll

i think it should at least be changed to your first run of the day, then reset every 4 hours or something.

as it is i have to ignore that the bonus things are there. i cannot revolve my schedule around a game.

kerlaa

uri92 wrote: »

If you make DD stuffs more powerful than non-DD stuffs, that would make what I pointed in my thread even worse... Why would people enchant T2 gear if DD grants with T2.5 gears ?

I don't think that's a good idea, but that is simply my own opinion.

Only for the Min/Maxer types. For those casual/themed/RP/non-elitist/non-member of UBER guildWwhatchamacallit characters they could still run them and get rewarded and still be a viable-productive-efficient character. Then again I'm against the elitism that has now happened with groups and their GS score requirements. I mean why boot someone that has the recommended/required (by the Devs no less) GS but wasn't high enough for your speed run. I mean as it stands all content should/is completable with a GS around 9.5GS (albeit with a challenge for CN) why must the Min/Maxers demand a 10+GS score to run the lower lvl T2 dungeons.

uri92

llfritzll wrote: »

i think it should at least be changed to your first run of the day, then reset every 4 hours or something.

as it is i have to ignore that the bonus things are there. i cannot revolve my schedule around a game.

Something like a Daily Epic dungeon quest x/4 would be better instead of that useless normal Dread Vault we have currently.

eagles9595

A dungeon Delve every 6 hours is certainly a bad thing.

Only few people like to do dungeon for 50/60 minutes and not be sure that they'll have a reward at the end.
Moreover now that they announced the coming BoE new policy, they'll be less people doing them because they cannot sell the item at the auction house.

So if we cannot find the item at the AH, we'll need to complete all dungeon.. which is exactly the way I want to earn my items.
the ONLY PROBLEM is that it's a mess and nearly impossible to complete any T2 with a PUG : people are leaving, some bosses are completely unbalanced and definitely not for full T1 geared people.

They better change that or find a a solution really fast.

uri92

Only few people like to do dungeon for 50/60 minutes and not be sure that they'll have a reward at the end.

In my opinion the problem is more likely the fact that the percentage chance of the loot you desire is absurd and beyond logic.

You need:
-To reach and kill the boss
-Boss to drop T2 instead of T1 craps
-Boss to drop T2 of your class
-Boss to drop the T2 set you desire
-To win the stuff with dices.

Let's say you have (hypothetic) 33% chances that the boss drop T2 gear.
You then have 33*0.25 % that it drops your class gear resulting in 8%.
Then you have around 2.3% chances to get the set you desire (8/3), considering they all have the same drop rate which I seriously doubt as I have never seen any "best T2 set" dropped from boss itself.

Not a pro in math though, but I think this should be more or less right unless some expert can make some better calculation...

That's part of the reason why people don't run dungeon while DD is off, you have much more chances to loot T2 from chest, because if chest contains a T2, it's a T2 of your class.

romudu34000

I agree with you the time between DD is absurd and you're lucky if you drop items you need.I did Karrundax 40 times for my swashbuckling gauntlet and now i have to do Spellplague and i don't want to do it 40 times so a chest in every dungeons is a goog idea

frarii

Yeah, chest in every dungeon... but BoP in chests... because if not market will be even more flooded with epic tier stuff than its now...
Please Devs, this is good feedback, will solve a lot of issues, wont create new problems, will ease the amount of stress on servers when the delves event is on, will ease the elitism on the PUGing a little...

i wish we had an answer in this topic.

craftymang

frarii wrote: »

Yeah, chest in every dungeon... but BoP in chests... because if not market will be even more flooded with epic tier stuff than its now...
Please Devs, this is good feedback, will solve a lot of issues, wont create new problems, will ease the amount of stress on servers when the delves event is on, will ease the elitism on the PUGing a little...

i wish we had an answer in this topic.

It being BoP would not stop the market from being flooded with epics. They would simply be untradeable. In other words, less people would buy off the auction house because most likely they already got their gear from a chest.

bananskrue

How about this one:

Every dungeon drops a chest. The loot is BoP. During DD, the loot is BoE.
Tada.

uri92

Nice one

+1000

bananachef

Delves is a terrible idea. You shouldn't funnel every dungeon goer into a 1 hour time a few times a day. Everyone does nothing but exploit to get the most efficiency out of the time. PuGs aren't willing to run anything but "the best" setups with everyone at 11k+ gs because the risk of 'wasting' a DD is too **** high. Half of every group queue is disbanded because "we don't have a CW, we can't do this dungeon" or the DC's gearscore is 500 points too low so no one wants to waste their 1 chance in the day to get loot. It's like everyone has years of cynicism built from scraping by on DD runs.

* GF isn't running conqueror, this is going to take too long
* DC gearscore is too low, we can't do the boss
* TR is stealth-built, he's going to hold us back
* We don't have enough CWs, we won't be able to do the boss adds
* We have a GWF

When nobody runs anything short of optimum, people don't play. On the pug scene, groups get dropped repeatedly until the magic quintet shows up. Everyone else is left spending the remaining hour dropping in and out of groups until the time runs out. And then, at that point it's not worth doing dungeons anymore because rewards are terrible, every high GS cleric is already off on a DD run, and you're just left with hundreds of 3/5 DPS groups shuffling around between themselves.

fusromeow

I completely agree with you. I mean, Dungeon Delve is a good idea, but they give you such little opportunity to acquire gear you need since most of us players are "poor" and can't afford it on the auction house. If they allowed you the ability to open the chest after every dungeon, that would be amazing. Because the amount of time, money, and effort you put into one dungeon, simply is not worth obtaining maybe one or no purple gear at all!

tickledpinks

I had changed my schedule to allow for 6 hour breaks between delves..now with GG thrown in ,it's totally out of whack..I don't run them that much anymore.

bawzdeep

They make no sense at all. I would run all the time, but now I don't bother except for DD. If they ever removed DD I would only run CN, so I hope they come up with a new incentive.

gdante7111111

The time 60 minutes to do something is a joke, it should be 1 hour and a half of each. delves should be 1.5, skirmish 1.5.

wholyhandgrenade

fusromeow wrote: »

I completely agree with you. I mean, Dungeon Delve is a good idea, but they give you such little opportunity to acquire gear you need since most of us players are "poor" and can't afford it on the auction house. If they allowed you the ability to open the chest after every dungeon, that would be amazing. Because the amount of time, money, and effort you put into one dungeon, simply is not worth obtaining maybe one or no purple gear at all!

lol, if you don't have the gear already don't expect to be included in groups

gdante7111111

wholyhandgrenade wrote: »

lol, if you don't have the gear already don't expect to be included in groups

In order for you to do t2 is to have t1, but if you dont have enough time. Then what good is doing t1, if it does not give you enough time to do delves.

johnygwapo

terrible players. want easy money

kabothoriginal

the should alternate days between some events... one day its DD day, the other GG day, the other pvp day...

qinnux

Withotu DD there should at least be multiple normal chests at the end of dungeon - lets say 3 for normals and 6 for epic.
With slightly better drop rate then the "random" chests in maps.

This way it doesnt feel like runnign it for no reward.