powereddjinnMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited June 2013
need === BoP
greed === BoE
Fairly quickly add new tier of gear (T2.2) & an even greater difficulty version of the current and the winners Gauntlgrym dungeons which either drop tokens for BoP gear along with some existing stuff, and while at it add epic skirmishes.
Open up all the token stuff that companions can use to all players, but as BoP
Add a recycle vendor for BoP epic gear.
Then spend the time until Module 2 having a good discussion about how to progress this to avoid a repeat of the current situation
figgeMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
If BoP loot could be broken down to salvage which could be used to craft BoE loot, and if the best gear you could craft was just as good (or why not better, it takes more effort after all) as the best looted gear - then we might be on to something.
Make crafting more interesting and useful.
Make drops useful for crafting even if they can't be used or sold as-is.
Oh and while you're at it, let me set my characters to automatically need on blue or better loot, and automatically greed on green, and pass on white. Also automatically need on all enchantments and crafting items. It annoys me when I have to click on need or greed or pass when all I want to do is smash face.
IMO the first step is to take a look at AD costs of everything in the game and make adjustments (mostly downwards, some need massive drops to even be remotely an attractive or realistic option).
Then you could always implement a token system for end game gear, the foundation is there with seals already, just expand it. This could even be used to make the foundry a viable way of obtaining at least a low(er) quality end game gear for those who dislike group/raiding content, then put a daily/weekly cap on how many seals can be obtained so it can't be abused.
0
Options
bzzzdMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
. This could potentially have the effect of cheapening the endgame experience of dungeon delves. We listened, took a look and agreed it wasn't unfolding as intended.
how about coming up with a better endgame than LOLDUNGEONGRIND (in mediocre dungeons)? this looks exactly like the great "endgame" of gw2.
ask some of your STO colleagues how to do it. while not perfect it's miles ahead the bore we have now.
If you don't have the stomach for a BoP system (I still think that would have been the best option) go to a token/seal system instead of having the items drop as BoE. You shouldn't be able to AH the higher level items. (Or their tokens).
Yes, this doesn't give the uber-geared a reason to run those dungeons anymore, but it adds longevity to the game for everyone else, including the new crop you will have at full release.
0
Options
bzzzdMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
If BoP loot could be broken down to salvage which could be used to craft BoE loot, and if the best gear you could craft was just as good (or why not better, it takes more effort after all) as the best looted gear - then we might be on to something.
Make crafting more interesting and useful.
Make drops useful for crafting even if they can't be used or sold as-is.
that's actually a great idea. keep the instance stuff BOP but salvagable, let people trade the salvage, and you can craft sth comparable for yourself.
0
Options
bzzzdMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Yes, this doesn't give the uber-geared a reason to run those dungeons anymore, but it adds longevity to the game for everyone else, including the new crop you will have at full release.
if the token rewards are BOE and can be sold, it's enough reason. heck the whole idea of everything BOE was that people can sell it on the AH.
0
Options
xenobiusMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
I'd say it's pretty pointless to change any of the existing dungeon loot.
You can't really quickly fix it without horribly breaking something else.
Best idea would be to let the current PvP, T1 and T2 gear to remain as it is, maybe switching the Castle Never loot to Bind on Pickup, and introduce a new tier of gear for both PvP and PvE, Bind on Pickup from day one.
That way, current T1/T2 items will become "entry level" gear, but going past them will require some effort, and make the next tier (Tier 2.5? Tier3? You decide) worthwhile.
On a side note, Dungeon Delve chest really DOES need to stay open 100% of the time for Epic Dungeons.
As it is now, regardless of BoP or BoE settings, it is completely meaningless to venture into Epic level dungeons outside of the Delve event - regular loot and non-end boss loot is utter vendor trash not worth time/effort required, and over the past few weeks I found myself cursing the bad event timing more often than not - my guild mates come home from work "on time" for DD maybe two days out of five, rest is either too early or too late. It's turning Neverwinter into some weird, session-based game, not really an MMO.
0
Options
zarnicusMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 10Arc User
edited June 2013
Gear that is class specific, offer the right to roll NEED on those items to the class that can use it only. Then it is BOP.
If no-one rolls NEED from that class, it goes to the highest GREED roll as BOE.
Gear that is not class-specific is BOP for NEED rolls and BOE for Greed rolls.
Need - Class only, with a caveat, rank the gear even if it is an internal rating. If you have an item equal to or greater than said item, Need is disabled. Its also annoying to run something with someone completely decked out in gear to have them roll need because the need button was highlighted.
Also with rolling Need, the item should be immediately bound to your character so it cannot be sold.
Greed - the default setting, all can roll and sell if needed.
Lieutenant Johnathan "Seven" Abradax Liberated Borg -Captain USS Solstice Member of Starfleet Borg Task Force - Tactical Unit
0
Options
holluuMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
I do not understand why you all are making it so hard to solve a simple issue - because other games don't have this kind of issue! You already have Class-specific gear, so only let those classes roll Need on gear they can actually equip. Make set gear BoP, also. I just don't get it, it's like the people in charge of this have never played another MMO before...
We still see an issue where the accomplishments of end game dungeon runners could be undermined by the ease of getting similar or equal gear through the Auction House,
-Zeke
Here is the loot solution:
First, Dungeon Delves Loot needs to be switched to BoP. Delves is meant to gear your own character/reward you for running a dungeon, not make you rich by selling that stuff on the AH. You can turn around and sell garbage for AD via salvage, but this is NOT meant as an AD farm, just incentive to run during delves.
Second, Instead of Tier set loot actually dropping, create an "Unforged" Currency Version of each Tier set (for Helm/Arms/Chest/Boots) (1 for T1 and 1 for T2) that drops in the specified dungeon runs off the specified bosses which you take to an NPC in town and he will "forge" it into one of the set items (respectively so Unforged Helm = Any T2 helm) YOU CHOOSE for YOUR CLASS. So all the group needs is for 1 item to drop applicable for ANY class since they could use to get a set piece of their choosing for their class. This allows more freedom in getting gear YOURSELF and not be AS frustrated cause YOUR set piece never drops.
Third, Switch the Loot mechanics to NEED= BoP. Greed = BoE. What this Also does is ensure that MOST boss (Tier) loot will actually be needed. Think about it, it would take a whole group having their specified T2 set item to have them all roll greed on the item (to make it BoE) meaning all the boss loot WOULD be BoP until TONS of people are geared... This keeps the alure of having those items while still allowing people to sell on the AH in the future. Most players, if the item dropped, atleast 1 person probably will NEED it making it BoP but eventually players will run the dungeons for the sake of greeding and thus selling it.
NOTE: This is ONLY for set pieces meaning you can still get rings/neck/weapons ETC from the AH via people greeding those as well... Arguably itll be the tier set that is harder and has more "nostalgia" to it. Since it will be hard to find the piece on the AH.
So lets see what this all does:
1) Reduced the end game epics hitting the economy by making delves gear BoP. Only boss loot will be possibly sellable.
2) Removes ninjas from taking peoples set items that DO drop when they do (making up for the fact that set pieces rarely drop)
3) Gives the ability to just get 1 drop that can be used to get your set item versus randomly getting a T1/T2 item you DONT want and posting that on the AH to sell.
4) Puts less end game gear to the economy since any player can use the drop to get their T2. (Ask yourself this, would you rather have a player that RAN the dungeon get the drop, or the drop sold on the AH to someone that didnt run it? so that the person that DID run it, could then buy that item from someone else?)
5)AH gear will still be available via the hardcore players who can farm end game content but this system re leaves ninja looters, frustration of getting gear by yourself, AND creates the rarity of end game gear that SHOULD be there...
OVERALL: Less AH gear available, more attainable in game gear while it STILL maintaining huge rarity. Delves rewards are diminished but the event STILL holds value to players looking to gear up, it WONT be of value for those looking to sell delve gear. Which is ONE of the many reasons this is an issue in the first place...
1) Make everything in dungeons BoP, except for a select few pieces, could be a "world drop".
Then remake the gear on the seal vendors, that stuff is already expensive enough to warrant it being part of the tier sets - even if its a lesser version. Ofcourse, keep it BoP from the seal vendors to avoid people abusing it.
2) Make rings, necks and belts unbound from the seal vendors (to help gear up new guildmembers or friends). I know for a fact that i have more then enough Pegasus seals to buy a small army - and nothing to spend it on.
3) Implement the salvage system and allow us to get rid of the bound epics that are virtually useless to us anyways.
4) Make DD permanent. Stop forcing people to play during 4 special hours per day. This way it doesnt feel like running a dungeon is total waste outside of the times DD is up.
5) Get rid of the low level seals, they are useless. By the time you have enough to buy a single piece you either outleveled them or you will very soon. Or you could always allow us to get some uncommon/rare/epic crafting materials from them.
I agree with this....PLEASE implement the salvage option anyway it's downright painful to sell outleveled bound T1 gear for a pittance of gold when we worked so hard to get it in the first place.
The seals are next to worthless anyway by the time you get enough of one type to actually purchase something. If you made them either account bound so we could at least trade them down to alts or fuseable like enchants so four of one equals one of a higher one that might make them more desirable.
Gotta agree with the DD option as well. At level 60 DDs are just about the only other thing to do besides foundries (or pvp if that's what you like, I for one would rather pve) and it feels like professions, pvp and skirmishes come up far more often than DDs. Give us epic skirmishes to do with the chance of epic drops.
Maybe replace XP gain from things like professions and invocation for 60+ (since we're maxed anyway and it's not like its sitting there in reserve waiting for the next levels to come out) with something more useful? Tokes for crafting maybe with the Alchemy profession coming out.
Also, if more useful things dropped from mini bosses and trash mobs you'd have more people actually running the dungeons rather than pre clears and speed running to the end just to get the end boss epic loot. (maybe)
I do not understand why you all are making it so hard to solve a simple issue - because other games don't have this kind of issue! You already have Class-specific gear, so only let those classes roll Need on gear they can actually equip. Make set gear BoP, also. I just don't get it, it's like the people in charge of this have never played another MMO before...
The problem is people need a way to make AD. Farming gear to sell on AH is what is keeping many people here. There needs to be a viable way to obtain AD if they want to change this, just look at the cost of most things in-game, let alone the zen store.
0
Options
zephyrliMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
Are you all blind???? Do you not see that the REAL problem is not the system that's in place. This system works just fine, though the Need on class only items is a welcome addition to stop ninja looters.
The Core of the problem is the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> map design where there's gaping big flaws readily exploitable making it possible to run 3-4, maybe more dungeons per DD where it was designed to only be run once, maybe twice per DD event. not to mention non DD farming of, say Spider, where you can finish the dungeon in under 20 mins with a decent party, not even a full 5 man party...
This complete oversight in map design is the root of the problem and STILL has only been addressed in a half-assed way. Take pirate king for example. they fixed ONE map exploit that I can see and still left one very obvious one wide open so you can still speed run pirate king to some degree. Karrundax also has this where they fixed one shortcut out of about 3 well known ones. It's this half assed approach to bug fixing and of dealing with exploiters that is causing the lame economy. A couple weeks ago Swash gear was over 1 mil, i finally got a drop this week and its worth about 200k??? wtf?? prices are plummetting and no amount of tweaking the need/greed system is going to fix it effectively. Look at the cause behind the problem and stop trying to put a band aid on the open gushing wound that is DD speed runs by exploiting map flaws.
I must say leaving this alone isn't an option, though.
I stand by my doomsaying: we have a ticking time bomb. There are more items coming into the game than demand for them.
The prices are high now but sooner or later they will become so common that the prices will crash to values way below where they should be.
Needing becoming Bind on Pickup is a great start but overall I think it's time that drops aren't guaranteed every run. Perhaps players should just be rewarded with AD or rare/epic resource items which could also upgrade even the late game loot. I'm not sure...
But overall there's just too much loot being dropped in the end. Players need their rewards but if everybody gets them then the items will simply crash in the long term.
I hear what you are saying. However, the overwhelming majority of end game loot flooding the auction house has been due to the existence of shortcuts and exploits in Dungeons. Also the Delve log in log out situation to get the chest, means that people can set up several Dungeons during that time to finish later. That absolutely should be stopped. You should have to be in a Dungeon during the Delve to get the loot. If all those things were corrected, people would only have 1 shot at a Delve per time in most cases, since most of the EPIC Dungeons take an hour or more to complete. Epic Dungeons are difficult and, as everyone knows, not every run is successful.
Another solution is MOAR gear, more weapons more equipment, as people have been saying from the beginning. Make it so that several sets are "best in game" but people search around for the one they like the appearance of best.
I also think that some sort of compromise would appease the largest number. While I am not a fan of BoP at all, I recognize that the whole issue is controversial. I think most people would accept the BoP for NEED items with BoE for everything else.
0
Options
urnusthebeatpoetMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 62Arc User
edited June 2013
Lot of negativity here. What I get from this post is that PWE/Cryptic are looking for a solution that works for everyone, taking the time to try different approaches, and listening to player feedback on the issue.
In Other Words, PWE/Cryptic are doing it right.
And not only are they doing it right, they're being really transparent about the whole process. To me, that's huge. It shows commitment by the PWE/Cryptic teams to making this game awesome, to listening to their fanbase/players, and to not rushing into anything that could be worse than the problem it's trying to fix.
So thank you PWE/Cryptic. You guys are doing A-Okay in my book. Keep up the awesome.
I am curious about the definition of "endgame." Is endgame to be composed of only a dungeon or pvp grind? The foundry is this game's shining jewel in my opinion and I had planned to progress my character at endgame by running foundry missions and using my proceeds to purchase neat end game gear for my character from the AH. Making dungeon and or pvp gear bind on pick up would restrict those who enjoy the foundry from advancing their characters beyond level 60. It is also very important that my companion be well geared as I rely on that companion as opposed to other players for support. I ask that this please be considered in any decision making.
All of these problems come from the inherent issues that N/G/P system causes. As many people have stated getting lucky on a roll does not equal earning.
The N/G/P system needs to be done away with.
You can make the best gear in the game use a token system and be bop that way. And it would still be fair.
No more rolls on things that are just going to get sold.(need or greed)
Dungeon delves should be about fighting monsters and getting gear, not about which 1 of the 5 people that went will get something.
The thought that need=pob, greed=boe will fix the problem is na
0
Options
bioshrikeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,729Arc User
All of these problems come from the inherent issues that N/G/P system causes. As many people have stated getting lucky on a roll does not equal earning.
The N/G/P system needs to be done away with.
You can make the best gear in the game use a token system and be bop that way. And it would still be fair.
No more rolls on things that are just going to get sold.(need or greed)
Dungeon delves should be about fighting monsters and getting gear, not about which 1 of the 5 people that went will get something.
The thought that need=pob, greed=boe will fix the problem is na
This also sets a quantifiable expectation as to when one will get the rewards they are after - if I get 15 tokens per dungeon run, (just an guess here), and a piece I want is 60 tokens, then I know I'll need 4 runs to get that ring. People will see the goal and know what they need to do to get closer toward it. None of this "I ran the dungeon 100 times and got nothing".
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
All of these problems come from the inherent issues that N/G/P system causes. As many people have stated getting lucky on a roll does not equal earning.
The N/G/P system needs to be done away with.
You can make the best gear in the game use a token system and be bop that way. And it would still be fair.
No more rolls on things that are just going to get sold.(need or greed)
Dungeon delves should be about fighting monsters and getting gear, not about which 1 of the 5 people that went will get something.
The thought that need=pob, greed=boe will fix the problem is na
Im quoting this again. Only because it is so full on win. I could not agree with this more
0
Options
rapticorMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,078Arc User
edited June 2013
I'm glad the change hasn't gone into place with the latest patch. At least for dungeon loots. PvP probably should have been changed today to be BoP and the glory rewards set back to what they were a couple weeks ago. And I agree with implementing the salvage vendor at this time.
That's our goal! We welcome all feedback so that we can move forward with the best solution. We'd like to have a dialogue where we propose changes, receive your comments and feedback, and adjust the changes as necessary so that everyone feels like we're moving in the right direction.
Lot of negativity here. What I get from this post is that PWE/Cryptic are looking for a solution that works for everyone, taking the time to try different approaches, and listening to player feedback on the issue.
In Other Words, PWE/Cryptic are doing it right.
And not only are they doing it right, they're being really transparent about the whole process. To me, that's huge. It shows commitment by the PWE/Cryptic teams to making this game awesome, to listening to their fanbase/players, and to not rushing into anything that could be worse than the problem it's trying to fix.
So thank you PWE/Cryptic. You guys are doing A-Okay in my book. Keep up the awesome.
The proposed BoP changes that went up on Preview were our first crack at a solution. The idea was that by switching the best set gear to BoP it would be more prestigious. Adding the salvage vendor would continue to guarantee an important source of Astral Diamonds for high end bound items.
I'm sorry, but I like the current open, free system that we have. It's just like Diablo 3 and PSO, where you can buy anything that's high level. The thing is, you're still doing all the hard work to get the gear by saving up your money to buy it. Money has always presented time: You work in real life, you put in time for money, and that money is pushed towards other sources. In this case, people in game can use money to buy gear so they can go in and do dungeons. You forget that you have to do these dungeons to get titles as well, so people who want titles or "prestige" can still get it. They also have to do it for the Slayer and Master of Monsters titles.
I'm a fan of the Need: BoP, Greed: BoE system, at least if we HAVE to have a system. Admittedly, this system ensures anyone who does need it would get it... as long as you keep the Salvage Store out. The Salvage Store is also very much backwards: At said store, it doesn't convert it's rates to the ones that are currently on the AH, and even worse, it only puts out ROUGH diamonds. Such a service is useless to replace the current system unless it gives actual Astral Diamonds, or you remove the limit on refining rough diamonds entirely.
I have to admit, I hate having these discussions. You get in a game with a good system, and all they wanna do is find a new way to screw up the current system. I'd understand your points if the game launched with these systems, but it's a little late in development to be making such huge changes. If you really, REALLY want "prestige", then I highly suggest making tier 3 Bind on Pick Up, then updating this to BoE when you put in Tier 4. You'd have to do this EVERY TIME you put in a new set so people could get the old sets and remain able to do the newest dungeons if they put in the time and effort... without having to hope people are doing the older dungeons, or have an "optimum team", since some dungeons are now demanding certain teams.
TL;DR, the current system lets people get geared up no matter where they put their time, increasing the pool of people who do dungeons to get those last drops, keep people who have all the gear already playing since they can sell the gear in those dungeons, meaning more geared people DOING those dungeons, if you put in any system, put in BoP on Need.
urnusthebeatpoetMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 62Arc User
edited June 2013
Hey, no game is perfect. Everything has issues. I am not a huge fan of the current looting system. But it could be worse. And your team is working to make it better. And your being honest, open, and up-front about that work. What more could I ask for (besides you giving me ice cream, theirs always room for more ice cream).
So again, thanks. Your game isn't perfect, but it's a lot of fun. More fun than any MMO I've played in a long time. And that's saying a good deal. There are flaws, it needs work, but you guys seem dedicated to making it rad, and that is something I really appreciate as a paying customer (bought zen, so yes, I am a paying customer).
0
Options
mahabodhiMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 12Arc User
I am curious about the definition of "endgame." Is endgame to be composed of only a dungeon or pvp grind? The foundry is this game's shining jewel in my opinion and I had planned to progress my character at endgame by running foundry missions and using my proceeds to purchase neat end game gear for my character from the AH. Making dungeon and or pvp gear bind on pick up would restrict those who enjoy the foundry from advancing their characters beyond level 60. It is also very important that my companion be well geared as I rely on that companion as opposed to other players for support. I ask that this please be considered in any decision making.
Kind regards,
Roguish98
I appreciate this comment. I don't PvP and have limited time and patience for dungeon runs. Solo Foundry quests and skirmishes, however, will keep me playing on a daily basis at 60. Why should this automatically exclude me from the best gear? The bind-on-pickup loot grind is a real drag in my opinion. It diminishes the game for most players.
I am curious about the definition of "endgame." Is endgame to be composed of only a dungeon or pvp grind? The foundry is this game's shining jewel in my opinion and I had planned to progress my character at endgame by running foundry missions and using my proceeds to purchase neat end game gear for my character from the AH.
This is an interesting point from my perspective. Whilst I have no interest in purchasing gear via the AH, I would like other options in order to earn it more directly. Can the foundry not be used to deliver "end-game" content provided the foundry missions meet certain (strict) criteria? The other options that people have mentioned are crafting or utilising seals, is there any reason these couldn't be used?
I can only speak for myself as someone that is not a particularly serious player. I suspect my areas of interest within the game are quite different to many others here.
Comments
greed === BoE
Fairly quickly add new tier of gear (T2.2) & an even greater difficulty version of the current and the winners Gauntlgrym dungeons which either drop tokens for BoP gear along with some existing stuff, and while at it add epic skirmishes.
Open up all the token stuff that companions can use to all players, but as BoP
Add a recycle vendor for BoP epic gear.
Then spend the time until Module 2 having a good discussion about how to progress this to avoid a repeat of the current situation
What Class Are You?
Make crafting more interesting and useful.
Make drops useful for crafting even if they can't be used or sold as-is.
Oh and while you're at it, let me set my characters to automatically need on blue or better loot, and automatically greed on green, and pass on white. Also automatically need on all enchantments and crafting items. It annoys me when I have to click on need or greed or pass when all I want to do is smash face.
Then you could always implement a token system for end game gear, the foundation is there with seals already, just expand it. This could even be used to make the foundry a viable way of obtaining at least a low(er) quality end game gear for those who dislike group/raiding content, then put a daily/weekly cap on how many seals can be obtained so it can't be abused.
how about coming up with a better endgame than LOLDUNGEONGRIND (in mediocre dungeons)? this looks exactly like the great "endgame" of gw2.
ask some of your STO colleagues how to do it. while not perfect it's miles ahead the bore we have now.
Not enough GOOD LOOT in this game..
Add more loot, decrease drp rate, let trasdh be able to drop Epics..
Jesus christ,
Yes, this doesn't give the uber-geared a reason to run those dungeons anymore, but it adds longevity to the game for everyone else, including the new crop you will have at full release.
that's actually a great idea. keep the instance stuff BOP but salvagable, let people trade the salvage, and you can craft sth comparable for yourself.
if the token rewards are BOE and can be sold, it's enough reason. heck the whole idea of everything BOE was that people can sell it on the AH.
You can't really quickly fix it without horribly breaking something else.
Best idea would be to let the current PvP, T1 and T2 gear to remain as it is, maybe switching the Castle Never loot to Bind on Pickup, and introduce a new tier of gear for both PvP and PvE, Bind on Pickup from day one.
That way, current T1/T2 items will become "entry level" gear, but going past them will require some effort, and make the next tier (Tier 2.5? Tier3? You decide) worthwhile.
On a side note, Dungeon Delve chest really DOES need to stay open 100% of the time for Epic Dungeons.
As it is now, regardless of BoP or BoE settings, it is completely meaningless to venture into Epic level dungeons outside of the Delve event - regular loot and non-end boss loot is utter vendor trash not worth time/effort required, and over the past few weeks I found myself cursing the bad event timing more often than not - my guild mates come home from work "on time" for DD maybe two days out of five, rest is either too early or too late. It's turning Neverwinter into some weird, session-based game, not really an MMO.
If no-one rolls NEED from that class, it goes to the highest GREED roll as BOE.
Gear that is not class-specific is BOP for NEED rolls and BOE for Greed rolls.
Very simple to fix, eh?
Also with rolling Need, the item should be immediately bound to your character so it cannot be sold.
Greed - the default setting, all can roll and sell if needed.
Liberated Borg -Captain USS Solstice
Member of Starfleet Borg Task Force - Tactical Unit
Here is the loot solution:
First, Dungeon Delves Loot needs to be switched to BoP. Delves is meant to gear your own character/reward you for running a dungeon, not make you rich by selling that stuff on the AH. You can turn around and sell garbage for AD via salvage, but this is NOT meant as an AD farm, just incentive to run during delves.
Second, Instead of Tier set loot actually dropping, create an "Unforged" Currency Version of each Tier set (for Helm/Arms/Chest/Boots) (1 for T1 and 1 for T2) that drops in the specified dungeon runs off the specified bosses which you take to an NPC in town and he will "forge" it into one of the set items (respectively so Unforged Helm = Any T2 helm) YOU CHOOSE for YOUR CLASS. So all the group needs is for 1 item to drop applicable for ANY class since they could use to get a set piece of their choosing for their class. This allows more freedom in getting gear YOURSELF and not be AS frustrated cause YOUR set piece never drops.
Third, Switch the Loot mechanics to NEED= BoP. Greed = BoE. What this Also does is ensure that MOST boss (Tier) loot will actually be needed. Think about it, it would take a whole group having their specified T2 set item to have them all roll greed on the item (to make it BoE) meaning all the boss loot WOULD be BoP until TONS of people are geared... This keeps the alure of having those items while still allowing people to sell on the AH in the future. Most players, if the item dropped, atleast 1 person probably will NEED it making it BoP but eventually players will run the dungeons for the sake of greeding and thus selling it.
NOTE: This is ONLY for set pieces meaning you can still get rings/neck/weapons ETC from the AH via people greeding those as well... Arguably itll be the tier set that is harder and has more "nostalgia" to it. Since it will be hard to find the piece on the AH.
So lets see what this all does:
1) Reduced the end game epics hitting the economy by making delves gear BoP. Only boss loot will be possibly sellable.
2) Removes ninjas from taking peoples set items that DO drop when they do (making up for the fact that set pieces rarely drop)
3) Gives the ability to just get 1 drop that can be used to get your set item versus randomly getting a T1/T2 item you DONT want and posting that on the AH to sell.
4) Puts less end game gear to the economy since any player can use the drop to get their T2. (Ask yourself this, would you rather have a player that RAN the dungeon get the drop, or the drop sold on the AH to someone that didnt run it? so that the person that DID run it, could then buy that item from someone else?)
5)AH gear will still be available via the hardcore players who can farm end game content but this system re leaves ninja looters, frustration of getting gear by yourself, AND creates the rarity of end game gear that SHOULD be there...
OVERALL: Less AH gear available, more attainable in game gear while it STILL maintaining huge rarity. Delves rewards are diminished but the event STILL holds value to players looking to gear up, it WONT be of value for those looking to sell delve gear. Which is ONE of the many reasons this is an issue in the first place...
I agree with this....PLEASE implement the salvage option anyway it's downright painful to sell outleveled bound T1 gear for a pittance of gold when we worked so hard to get it in the first place.
The seals are next to worthless anyway by the time you get enough of one type to actually purchase something. If you made them either account bound so we could at least trade them down to alts or fuseable like enchants so four of one equals one of a higher one that might make them more desirable.
Gotta agree with the DD option as well. At level 60 DDs are just about the only other thing to do besides foundries (or pvp if that's what you like, I for one would rather pve) and it feels like professions, pvp and skirmishes come up far more often than DDs. Give us epic skirmishes to do with the chance of epic drops.
Maybe replace XP gain from things like professions and invocation for 60+ (since we're maxed anyway and it's not like its sitting there in reserve waiting for the next levels to come out) with something more useful? Tokes for crafting maybe with the Alchemy profession coming out.
Also, if more useful things dropped from mini bosses and trash mobs you'd have more people actually running the dungeons rather than pre clears and speed running to the end just to get the end boss epic loot. (maybe)
D&D Home Page - What Class Are You? - Build A Character - D&D Compendium
The problem is people need a way to make AD. Farming gear to sell on AH is what is keeping many people here. There needs to be a viable way to obtain AD if they want to change this, just look at the cost of most things in-game, let alone the zen store.
The Core of the problem is the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> map design where there's gaping big flaws readily exploitable making it possible to run 3-4, maybe more dungeons per DD where it was designed to only be run once, maybe twice per DD event. not to mention non DD farming of, say Spider, where you can finish the dungeon in under 20 mins with a decent party, not even a full 5 man party...
This complete oversight in map design is the root of the problem and STILL has only been addressed in a half-assed way. Take pirate king for example. they fixed ONE map exploit that I can see and still left one very obvious one wide open so you can still speed run pirate king to some degree. Karrundax also has this where they fixed one shortcut out of about 3 well known ones. It's this half assed approach to bug fixing and of dealing with exploiters that is causing the lame economy. A couple weeks ago Swash gear was over 1 mil, i finally got a drop this week and its worth about 200k??? wtf?? prices are plummetting and no amount of tweaking the need/greed system is going to fix it effectively. Look at the cause behind the problem and stop trying to put a band aid on the open gushing wound that is DD speed runs by exploiting map flaws.
Fountain of Dread - NW-DACS7JITE - Duration: ~15minutes - BRAND NEW!
I hear what you are saying. However, the overwhelming majority of end game loot flooding the auction house has been due to the existence of shortcuts and exploits in Dungeons. Also the Delve log in log out situation to get the chest, means that people can set up several Dungeons during that time to finish later. That absolutely should be stopped. You should have to be in a Dungeon during the Delve to get the loot. If all those things were corrected, people would only have 1 shot at a Delve per time in most cases, since most of the EPIC Dungeons take an hour or more to complete. Epic Dungeons are difficult and, as everyone knows, not every run is successful.
Another solution is MOAR gear, more weapons more equipment, as people have been saying from the beginning. Make it so that several sets are "best in game" but people search around for the one they like the appearance of best.
I also think that some sort of compromise would appease the largest number. While I am not a fan of BoP at all, I recognize that the whole issue is controversial. I think most people would accept the BoP for NEED items with BoE for everything else.
In Other Words, PWE/Cryptic are doing it right.
And not only are they doing it right, they're being really transparent about the whole process. To me, that's huge. It shows commitment by the PWE/Cryptic teams to making this game awesome, to listening to their fanbase/players, and to not rushing into anything that could be worse than the problem it's trying to fix.
So thank you PWE/Cryptic. You guys are doing A-Okay in my book. Keep up the awesome.
Kind regards,
Roguish98
The N/G/P system needs to be done away with.
You can make the best gear in the game use a token system and be bop that way. And it would still be fair.
No more rolls on things that are just going to get sold.(need or greed)
Dungeon delves should be about fighting monsters and getting gear, not about which 1 of the 5 people that went will get something.
The thought that need=pob, greed=boe will fix the problem is na
This also sets a quantifiable expectation as to when one will get the rewards they are after - if I get 15 tokens per dungeon run, (just an guess here), and a piece I want is 60 tokens, then I know I'll need 4 runs to get that ring. People will see the goal and know what they need to do to get closer toward it. None of this "I ran the dungeon 100 times and got nothing".
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Im quoting this again. Only because it is so full on win. I could not agree with this more
I'm sorry, but I like the current open, free system that we have. It's just like Diablo 3 and PSO, where you can buy anything that's high level. The thing is, you're still doing all the hard work to get the gear by saving up your money to buy it. Money has always presented time: You work in real life, you put in time for money, and that money is pushed towards other sources. In this case, people in game can use money to buy gear so they can go in and do dungeons. You forget that you have to do these dungeons to get titles as well, so people who want titles or "prestige" can still get it. They also have to do it for the Slayer and Master of Monsters titles.
I'm a fan of the Need: BoP, Greed: BoE system, at least if we HAVE to have a system. Admittedly, this system ensures anyone who does need it would get it... as long as you keep the Salvage Store out. The Salvage Store is also very much backwards: At said store, it doesn't convert it's rates to the ones that are currently on the AH, and even worse, it only puts out ROUGH diamonds. Such a service is useless to replace the current system unless it gives actual Astral Diamonds, or you remove the limit on refining rough diamonds entirely.
I have to admit, I hate having these discussions. You get in a game with a good system, and all they wanna do is find a new way to screw up the current system. I'd understand your points if the game launched with these systems, but it's a little late in development to be making such huge changes. If you really, REALLY want "prestige", then I highly suggest making tier 3 Bind on Pick Up, then updating this to BoE when you put in Tier 4. You'd have to do this EVERY TIME you put in a new set so people could get the old sets and remain able to do the newest dungeons if they put in the time and effort... without having to hope people are doing the older dungeons, or have an "optimum team", since some dungeons are now demanding certain teams.
TL;DR, the current system lets people get geared up no matter where they put their time, increasing the pool of people who do dungeons to get those last drops, keep people who have all the gear already playing since they can sell the gear in those dungeons, meaning more geared people DOING those dungeons, if you put in any system, put in BoP on Need.
So again, thanks. Your game isn't perfect, but it's a lot of fun. More fun than any MMO I've played in a long time. And that's saying a good deal. There are flaws, it needs work, but you guys seem dedicated to making it rad, and that is something I really appreciate as a paying customer (bought zen, so yes, I am a paying customer).
I appreciate this comment. I don't PvP and have limited time and patience for dungeon runs. Solo Foundry quests and skirmishes, however, will keep me playing on a daily basis at 60. Why should this automatically exclude me from the best gear? The bind-on-pickup loot grind is a real drag in my opinion. It diminishes the game for most players.
I can only speak for myself as someone that is not a particularly serious player. I suspect my areas of interest within the game are quite different to many others here.