Can we please have people that actually PVP discuss here? I am a GF and the only thing I do is pvp. GWF is the most overpowered class in the game right now. Not only can they beat ANYBODY on a 1v1 now, but they are also able to pretty much "tank" a group of 5 players FOCUSING on him / her WHILE regaining health. GWF are a beast now IF you don't generally suck.
This is how my fights with GWF go now:
round one: Almost kill GWF, GWF becomes IMMUNE, and also regains health close to 100%
round two: Same deal as round one, except now I have 50% health.
round three: I am dead because this GWF manages to become immune, regain health when he is almost down.
Or, I like how we have 5 people on base 2 then comes a GWF taking ALL THE DAMAGE from the ENTIRE TEAM, while killing people and regaining health.
It's pretty broken, if you still lose with a GWF in pvp you should REALLY consider quitting this game.
Please feel free to back this up with some proof.
I have a level 60 GWF with a 10.1 GS and while I feel in any 1vs1 fight ( you know those mythical things in group pvp ) I have a decent chance of winning ( good CW and GF can have me running ) but the me vs multiple people scenario you propose implies bad players as if any 2 classes cannot kill anyone its not so much the one being OP as much as its just two bad players.
The worst class in PVP now is my other class the DC
Do they all need some tweaks sure but seriously 1 vs 5 and you expect anyone to take you seriously....
I'm voting yes because GWFs can do a lot of damage now.
However, I'm not 100% sure that "a lot of damage" is enough. I mean sure I can beat CWs and TRs on the meters in some T2 dungeon runs, but when it comes down to it, it seems like other classes are going to be generally more useful to have along.
Rise of the Fell King - A Forgotten Realms campaign (work in progress) NWS-DS38FJ5R8 Part One: The Fell Cavern (looking for feedback!) NW-DTWX9RBQH Hopefully more to come!
You mean to tell me they have made gwf to the point where no one can kill them in pvp and they can kill everyone in one hit and you have poll about whether they should be buffed even more? Is this s game for everyone or is this just some sick joke on those that actually play it???
You mean to tell me they have made gwf to the point where no one can kill them in pvp and they can kill everyone in one hit and you have poll about whether they should be buffed even more? Is this s game for everyone or is this just some sick joke on those that actually play it???
You mean to tell me they have made gwf to the point where no one can kill them in pvp and they can kill everyone in one hit and you have poll about whether they should be buffed even more? Is this s game for everyone or is this just some sick joke on those that actually play it???
If you check ladyhighness' post history it is pretty obvious that they are a CW alt....
My main is a CW and I have no issues killing GWF! lol.. But I am a 2he weapon fan more than anything else. So while I enjoy playing my pew pew caster I really want to see my GWF be at least equal to my CW for fairness sake. I base my opinion on how easy GWF are to kill on my mage and the average score of other GWF in teams I am in while on both my GWF & my CW. I am not like coming up negative in the scores or anything but my CW gets easily 20-2 type scores my GWF is lucky to get 5-0.. Now you say but you didn't die! I say GWF's greatest skill is running away and finding a potion spawn and coming back to fight again. That being said other GWF I see are consistently the bottom of the DPS/k:d ratio chart often even below GF..
But in all fairness that isn't even what makes me want to cry.. it's that no matter how well I do there is always some rogue who has nearly doubled or tripled everything.. A friend decided to illustrate the point of how OP a rogue is by comparison while we were leveling. He wore all 10 level lower quest greens while my GWF was wearing at level blues.. He got 25-0.. while I got a meager 7-1.. I mean seriously.. that is just wtf!
Hmm. If what people are saying is true and I were to make a totally unbiased assessment of the situation I would see it as this. The itemization at end game is imbalanced. Put differently the ratio of stats to effect or better the amount of points on end game gear + enchants possibly coupled with a few paragon feats leads both the GF and the GWF in a bad spot.. Horrible for the first 59 levels of the game and OP at end game in all final gear. To me this says that the number of points on gear or the equation to solve how much each point effects the abilities is off. (probably the former of the two)
How to fix the problem? Quite simple actually. Run some naked tests.. That means put a GF / GWF against each other class with both wearing nothing but a weapon can be QL1 for all I care. Then see if this imbalance still exists in favor of the GWF/GF seeming too strong.
If this is not the case and my suspicions correct then it is the stats on the gear which need to be tweaked not the abilities nerfed. Quite the opposite really.. The base line abilities need to be boosted so that they are not so abysmal before this gear is acquired.
If the imbalance still exists, which I do not believe it will, then it is some set of paragon feats which is causing the problem and possibly needing to be looked at. Because so far I have yet to be even remotely scared or threatened even one time by either a GWF or GF on my CW. And I see rogues chasing them down all the time for Killing Blows. So obviously if they are running away from every other dps class out there then something is not right some place. If all of this confusion is simply based on gear acquisition then the gear needs to be nerfed a bit and the baselines improved so that there is a better balance of performance from 1-60.
The same can be said for all of the classes really.. People often forget that in a gear based game it is often NOT the class or the skills which are the problem but the number of stat points a class can get due to the gear itself. So rather than keep messing with mechanics or worse nerf baselines the developers should look at the gear first by removing it from the equation and then approach it with a clean slate. No problem without gear? Fix the gear! Still have problems.. Look elsewhere. If GWF were some sort of holy terror from 10-59 I'd be on the band wagon for nerfs and honestly wouldn't even want to play the class. The only class I have not played yet is the Rogue because quite frankly they seem to be a class that requires little to no skill to play and that does not hold my interest for long. I want to know when I kill someone or something it was my skill as a player that made it happen.. not unfair itemization or OP FOTM class mechanics.
Well for now id say yes...im a pvp player...sentinel...
If u give me more dps and CC im way too op....or ill become like these GF that 2 shots with more mobility !!
maybe a bit more on at -wills but thats all
GWF needs better CC than TRs. Why? no ranged attack, no stealth (can get to a CW while taking no damage), no on demand CC immunity (dodge, impossible to catch), no 80' gap closer strike + slowdown. GWF also need reliable damage, AKA at-will damage,
the pvp sword have an average hit of 820 add on that +150-160 from power x1.5(ranks, strength and feats) = ~1500, yet GWF at-wills do half of that and even some encounters like punishing charge and not so fast deal less than this value, which I believe we can agree on it being very underwhelming.
if that's not enough consider this: perma stealth rogues/CW with 7 great tenebrus vs 7 great tenebrus GWF.
Still not enough. I put no. But I have to admit it is more than I thought it would be. However, the same problems still exist. CW still better than us in T2 dungeon for CC and AOE. TR still much better than us in single target dps. The sentinel build is pretty good. I played with it in the preview but I just don't want to play a tank. I also don't play the GF but from playing with them they seem to be much better than a sentinel GWF.
PvP. There is no way anyone can claim they beat anyone 2 v 1, where you are the 1. So much of it is gear and skill hard to say. I do think they are much better in PvP. That little bit of health after unstoppable is huge. Very tanky and the extended range to takedown is big. I tried using Roar over IDS (due to range) and it seems to be better. I use flourish over IDS due to range as well. I know you can do takedown, IDS, flourish which kills most but very rare I can get that combo down before someone knocks me down or puts me in the air or smokes me. Anyways, GWF is better in PVP. No complaints.
I put no, and it's not because of the damage exactly.
WMS needs to die a heroic and messy death.
But I love WMS you say? WMS is only good because of the debuff (+30% at-will dmg), which means it ends up on the bar because quite frankly every path does better with it slotted as one of the two.
The problem here is that the 30% damage didn't spring up as a bonus, it was removed from the at-wills in the first place.
Meaning every single at-will had 30% damage removed.
My reasoning is thus: Out of every character I have ever tested, the GWF has the absolute lowest weapon damage to at-will conversion.
GWF Weapon says it does 300-400.. does 180-280, weapon says 800-900 does 600-700.
Other classes weapons say 300-400, and the at-will actually does 330-440.
(numbers are rough examples)
But hey it's all good so long as WMS puts the numbers back right?
Also, if Roar is supposed to generate AP/DET based on number of targets hit, isn't it logical that all the other AoE encounters do the same? (I bloody hate Roar so much)
Sentinel's survivability works great now, too bad monsters completely ignore you unless you are geared for massive DPS and not for actually tanking.
Comments
Please feel free to back this up with some proof.
I have a level 60 GWF with a 10.1 GS and while I feel in any 1vs1 fight ( you know those mythical things in group pvp ) I have a decent chance of winning ( good CW and GF can have me running ) but the me vs multiple people scenario you propose implies bad players as if any 2 classes cannot kill anyone its not so much the one being OP as much as its just two bad players.
The worst class in PVP now is my other class the DC
Do they all need some tweaks sure but seriously 1 vs 5 and you expect anyone to take you seriously....
However, I'm not 100% sure that "a lot of damage" is enough. I mean sure I can beat CWs and TRs on the meters in some T2 dungeon runs, but when it comes down to it, it seems like other classes are going to be generally more useful to have along.
Part One: The Fell Cavern (looking for feedback!) NW-DTWX9RBQH
Hopefully more to come!
bad joke is bad mmmkay..
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Campaign: The Battle of Neverwinter - NWS-DOQXFA4ZD
Prologue: A not so simple plan - NW-DCJG75B9D
If you check ladyhighness' post history it is pretty obvious that they are a CW alt....
My main is a CW and I have no issues killing GWF! lol.. But I am a 2he weapon fan more than anything else. So while I enjoy playing my pew pew caster I really want to see my GWF be at least equal to my CW for fairness sake. I base my opinion on how easy GWF are to kill on my mage and the average score of other GWF in teams I am in while on both my GWF & my CW. I am not like coming up negative in the scores or anything but my CW gets easily 20-2 type scores my GWF is lucky to get 5-0.. Now you say but you didn't die! I say GWF's greatest skill is running away and finding a potion spawn and coming back to fight again. That being said other GWF I see are consistently the bottom of the DPS/k:d ratio chart often even below GF..
But in all fairness that isn't even what makes me want to cry.. it's that no matter how well I do there is always some rogue who has nearly doubled or tripled everything.. A friend decided to illustrate the point of how OP a rogue is by comparison while we were leveling. He wore all 10 level lower quest greens while my GWF was wearing at level blues.. He got 25-0.. while I got a meager 7-1.. I mean seriously.. that is just wtf!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Campaign: The Battle of Neverwinter - NWS-DOQXFA4ZD
Prologue: A not so simple plan - NW-DCJG75B9D
If u give me more dps and CC im way too op....or ill become like these GF that 2 shots with more mobility !!
maybe a bit more on at -wills but thats all
How to fix the problem? Quite simple actually. Run some naked tests.. That means put a GF / GWF against each other class with both wearing nothing but a weapon can be QL1 for all I care. Then see if this imbalance still exists in favor of the GWF/GF seeming too strong.
If this is not the case and my suspicions correct then it is the stats on the gear which need to be tweaked not the abilities nerfed. Quite the opposite really.. The base line abilities need to be boosted so that they are not so abysmal before this gear is acquired.
If the imbalance still exists, which I do not believe it will, then it is some set of paragon feats which is causing the problem and possibly needing to be looked at. Because so far I have yet to be even remotely scared or threatened even one time by either a GWF or GF on my CW. And I see rogues chasing them down all the time for Killing Blows. So obviously if they are running away from every other dps class out there then something is not right some place. If all of this confusion is simply based on gear acquisition then the gear needs to be nerfed a bit and the baselines improved so that there is a better balance of performance from 1-60.
The same can be said for all of the classes really.. People often forget that in a gear based game it is often NOT the class or the skills which are the problem but the number of stat points a class can get due to the gear itself. So rather than keep messing with mechanics or worse nerf baselines the developers should look at the gear first by removing it from the equation and then approach it with a clean slate. No problem without gear? Fix the gear! Still have problems.. Look elsewhere. If GWF were some sort of holy terror from 10-59 I'd be on the band wagon for nerfs and honestly wouldn't even want to play the class. The only class I have not played yet is the Rogue because quite frankly they seem to be a class that requires little to no skill to play and that does not hold my interest for long. I want to know when I kill someone or something it was my skill as a player that made it happen.. not unfair itemization or OP FOTM class mechanics.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Campaign: The Battle of Neverwinter - NWS-DOQXFA4ZD
Prologue: A not so simple plan - NW-DCJG75B9D
GWF needs better CC than TRs. Why? no ranged attack, no stealth (can get to a CW while taking no damage), no on demand CC immunity (dodge, impossible to catch), no 80' gap closer strike + slowdown. GWF also need reliable damage, AKA at-will damage,
the pvp sword have an average hit of 820 add on that +150-160 from power x1.5(ranks, strength and feats) = ~1500, yet GWF at-wills do half of that and even some encounters like punishing charge and not so fast deal less than this value, which I believe we can agree on it being very underwhelming.
if that's not enough consider this: perma stealth rogues/CW with 7 great tenebrus vs 7 great tenebrus GWF.
Hedas 60 GWF.
Hrod 60 GF.
Alain Loreweaver 60 CW.
Dragon.
Wow, first non-cocky truth from a TR, thank you. No stealth exploit pls.
PvP. There is no way anyone can claim they beat anyone 2 v 1, where you are the 1. So much of it is gear and skill hard to say. I do think they are much better in PvP. That little bit of health after unstoppable is huge. Very tanky and the extended range to takedown is big. I tried using Roar over IDS (due to range) and it seems to be better. I use flourish over IDS due to range as well. I know you can do takedown, IDS, flourish which kills most but very rare I can get that combo down before someone knocks me down or puts me in the air or smokes me. Anyways, GWF is better in PVP. No complaints.
WMS needs to die a heroic and messy death.
But I love WMS you say? WMS is only good because of the debuff (+30% at-will dmg), which means it ends up on the bar because quite frankly every path does better with it slotted as one of the two.
The problem here is that the 30% damage didn't spring up as a bonus, it was removed from the at-wills in the first place.
Meaning every single at-will had 30% damage removed.
My reasoning is thus: Out of every character I have ever tested, the GWF has the absolute lowest weapon damage to at-will conversion.
GWF Weapon says it does 300-400.. does 180-280, weapon says 800-900 does 600-700.
Other classes weapons say 300-400, and the at-will actually does 330-440.
(numbers are rough examples)
But hey it's all good so long as WMS puts the numbers back right?
Also, if Roar is supposed to generate AP/DET based on number of targets hit, isn't it logical that all the other AoE encounters do the same? (I bloody hate Roar so much)
Sentinel's survivability works great now, too bad monsters completely ignore you unless you are geared for massive DPS and not for actually tanking.