HUm to add here, I read there going to be adding alchemey to the list, that will be worth a little time spent to set the thing cooking, go run quest dungeons etc, log off and collect next day, start process over. Crafting hasnt cost me one AD, but I have MADE a good sum of it in leadership..the good thing PWE gave us is, you dont have to be online for the task to complete.
I find it's ok, and something else to do other then wait in a Q line....
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"Sir, were now surrounded"!
Thats great news son, now we can attack from ALL sides"!
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited June 2013
I'm levelling mail and will also level cloth on my GWF, and leather and plate on my TR; leadership on both. Because I am not a rocket-to-the-end gamer, I'm actually making upgrade gear for myself about even with character levels (enabled through constant use of Gateway), and the GWF is also regularly mailing items to my DC.
I only do the rare tasks when they'll produce an upgrade, because otherwise the materials consumed aren't worth it.
Haven't spent any ADs to rush tasks, just let the long ones run while I'm unavailable. And I have lots of time to worry about whether or not I "need" assets better than the white ones.
I am able to sell items I craft on the AH, without constantly lowballing prices. You just need to actually think about what you're doing for a few minutes, maybe research the market, and not expect the rewards to come instantly.
Probably this is another argument for levelling in this game being ridiculously fast.
Yes, agreed. Alchemy and Leadership seem like they'll both be useful and profitable. The game is super potion dependent, so being able to craft them will be (literally) magic.
You only need one toon to be the designated crafter, for outfitting alts or selling craftables. That has the benefit of keeping all your assets on one toon, who will also eventually have all the task windows unlocked. For the rest of your alts, nothing but Leadership and Alchemy!
Perhaps the point is just to have some... fun. Yes, I know - an outrageous concept. But as someone here mentioned, crafting is a mini-game in itself. Sure, I'll be the first to agree that the non-leadership professions offer too little bang for the buck and that your efforts often seem wasted, especially at the earlier levels. Nevertheless, I still seem to get much more enjoyment from this crafting system than I do from, say, World of Warcraft's. It's not as simplistic and it's not as easy to max out, which are good things in my mind.
It would probably flow a little better if the experience gains (and with that - levelling) in this game weren't so ridicuously huge and easy to come by.
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victuaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 5Arc User
...All that said, it's very difficult, bordering on impossible, to design a crafting system that is actually useful in an MMO. Let alone one that is useful AND accessible. Think about it... that's just a paradoxical notion. If everyone has easy access to something, it's not going to be worth much. Because everyone has easy access to it. How can you expect to make money off of something you crafted if everyone else can craft it too? Nobody is going to pay you for it because they can make it themselves....
Not sure where you get the definition of 'paradoxical', but I'm assuming you mean something like futile or useless as a undertaking.
Eitherway, there are several examples of crafting being well implemented in games to great effect. No PW games I can think of, but plenty others that focused on variation on crafted product with a strong emphasis on consumables like SWG back in the day. Or a technical and very adaptable crafting system (i.e. Vanguard SOH) that let players decide on quantity/quality on each item with player crafted gear getting preferred 'required level' stats so two pieces of gear with similar stats (one crafted and one a mob drop) the crafted gear would be usable at a lower level. And crafting required tools and materials that had to be crafted by other crafting chains.
For these thrown together 'ease of use' MMOs crafting is usually a side thought as the preferred player activity is endless 'raiding' for the newest endgame set. Gear crafting typically has no place in such a system, but crafting consumables like food or drink that enhance stats would be quite viable.
I finally got my chain crafting up to level 12, took forever and costs a fortune and a ton of time to level. At level 60 I can now craft level 16 equipment.
That was my exact complaint when crafting first came out in closed testing. I don't like crafting in this game. The only thing I do is leadership to get a few extra XP and AD while offline.
I like to craft items that I can use while leveling. I don't really know what the designers were thinking when they made this system.
I finally got my chain crafting up to level 12, took forever and costs a fortune and a ton of time to level. At level 60 I can now craft level 16 equipment.
Really? It took you a fortune to level crafting to 12? I think you did it wrong then.
Rise of the Fell King - A Forgotten Realms campaign (work in progress) NWS-DS38FJ5R8 Part One: The Fell Cavern (looking for feedback!) NW-DTWX9RBQH Hopefully more to come!
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terradraconisMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 17Arc User
I finally got my chain crafting up to level 12, took forever and costs a fortune and a ton of time to level. At level 60 I can now craft level 16 equipment.
How in the world did you spend a fortune on crafting? Did you speed it up? Why?
I made tens of millions of AD from crafting pants and shirts. However the market is far too saturated now so I don't even bother since <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> undercut my hundreds of k's just to make a quick buck.
Got in, made my money, got out. Still sitting on them legit AD muniez.
So the market changed from an oligopoly and people responded logically, bringing prices down. Not sure how that makes them <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. Glad you reaped your outsized profits while you did though.
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krahctMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
Best way to use professions, in this game:
Roll a character, get him to Protector Enclave, he will never leave PE until profession is maxed.
Begin a profession that will benefit the above character in some way
Roll another character, level it normally, send mats to first character
level professions on first character until maxed
Delete second character
Make new character
Get it to Protector's Enclave
Pick a profession that will benefit new character
Begin leveling first character and sending mats to third character
Professions won. Celebrate.
Sound ridiculous? It is, forget professions.
"I never make mistakes, I once thought I did but I was wrong"
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vindiconMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
All that said, it's very difficult, bordering on impossible, to design a crafting system that is actually useful in an MMO. Let alone one that is useful AND accessible. Think about it... that's just a paradoxical notion. If everyone has easy access to something, it's not going to be worth much. Because everyone has easy access to it. How can you expect to make money off of something you crafted if everyone else can craft it too? Nobody is going to pay you for it because they can make it themselves.
It can certainly be done. Think, for example, if the current crafting system leveled about as fast as you did, allowing you to make some half-decent blue lv60 gear by the time you got the proffession to lv10. It would not be very efficient, or anywhere close to being the best gear around, but it would be a reliable gear source that you didn't outlevel too fast. Then , here's the catch: the next 10 levels, up to 20, would still be about lv60 gear, but this time more efficiently, until eventually you can use it as an income source rather than just a source of cheap gear for yourself. Things like doing the same recipes but with fewer components/faster/with the chance of adding gem slots, until at lv 20 you can, if you have all the ingredients, craft a tier 2 purple set.
In short, have the proffession level in a similar pace as your character, and after your level cap have it evolve further, from a simple convenience tool to a legitimate in-game job.
It can certainly be done. Think, for example, if the current crafting system leveled about as fast as you did, allowing you to make some half-decent blue lv60 gear by the time you got the proffession to lv10. It would not be very efficient, or anywhere close to being the best gear around, but it would be a reliable gear source that you didn't outlevel too fast. Then , here's the catch: the next 10 levels, up to 20, would still be about lv60 gear, but this time more efficiently, until eventually you can use it as an income source rather than just a source of cheap gear for yourself. Things like doing the same recipes but with fewer components/faster/with the chance of adding gem slots, until at lv 20 you can, if you have all the ingredients, craft a tier 2 purple set.
In short, have the proffession level in a similar pace as your character, and after your level cap have it evolve further, from a simple convenience tool to a legitimate in-game job.
Indeed, this would be a great idea. And even better if the tasks themselves evolved as the profession leveled up so you didn't have so much <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> to scroll through everytime.
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adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
edited June 2013
One of the problems with the crafting professions is that you really level too fast. In order for you to actually be able to make stuff that is useful to you at any given time, the profession level should be around a third of your character level - meaning that you should hit profession level 20 at around the same time as you hit character level 60. Well, that's not the case - profession level 12-14 seems more usual.
Now as for using the crafting professions to make money - for many items you can make you will actually be better off just selling the raw materials on the AH. There are a few exceptions, though.
I was looking at the high-end items the other day - the gemmed exquisite (chain) shirts and pants. They sell for around 350.000 AD, with the Tier 2 (non-gemmed) version selling for around 150.000
Now, assuming (yeah, yeah, it is a big assumption) that you have 4 purple tools, you have a 60% chance of getting the gemmed one, so your expected return should be (40%*150.000)+(60%*350.000) would be 270.000. If you got all the components in drops, fine, but if you had to buy them, the average component cost would be around 150.000. That still leaves 120.000 in net profit.
The problem is that 4 purple tools would cost you around 4.000.000 AD, so you would have to make over 30 pants/shirts just to break even.
Now, you can only make one at a time, and only start during the (rare) moments when the pants/shirt recipe is available - which might take you a couple of months.....and during the same time, some others might be doing the same thing, which would drive up the price of the dragon eggs, making this less and less profitable.
One way to make professions more meaningful would be to allow people to make more useful stuff for themselves - make gear comparable to T1 gear, but make it BoP, and have some rare/expensive components...this would give the people that enjoy crafting something to aim for.
As it is, crafting is somewhat pointless...just selling materials for the blue items (crystals and such) is in many cases better than making and selling the actual items. There is something fundamentally wrong with that.
Leadership, on the other hand - now, that is useful. Combined with invocation you can use it to get pretty much your daily 24K AD limit, or use it to provide a trickle of gold to pay for your potions and kits.
Now, alchemy - it is still a few hours until that becomes available, but I have high hopes regarding that. Most likely I will be disappointed, though.
One of the problems with the crafting professions is that you really level too fast. In order for you to actually be able to make stuff that is useful to you at any given time, the profession level should be around a third of your character level - meaning that you should hit profession level 20 at around the same time as you hit character level 60. Well, that's not the case - profession level 12-14 seems more usual.
Now as for using the crafting professions to make money - for many items you can make you will actually be better off just selling the raw materials on the AH. There are a few exceptions, though.
I was looking at the high-end items the other day - the gemmed exquisite (chain) shirts and pants. They sell for around 350.000 AD, with the Tier 2 (non-gemmed) version selling for around 150.000
Now, assuming (yeah, yeah, it is a big assumption) that you have 4 purple tools, you have a 60% chance of getting the gemmed one, so your expected return should be (40%*150.000)+(60%*350.000) would be 270.000. If you got all the components in drops, fine, but if you had to buy them, the average component cost would be around 150.000. That still leaves 120.000 in net profit.
The problem is that 4 purple tools would cost you around 4.000.000 AD, so you would have to make over 30 pants/shirts just to break even.
Now, you can only make one at a time, and only start during the (rare) moments when the pants/shirt recipe is available - which might take you a couple of months.....and during the same time, some others might be doing the same thing, which would drive up the price of the dragon eggs, making this less and less profitable.
One way to make professions more meaningful would be to allow people to make more useful stuff for themselves - make gear comparable to T1 gear, but make it BoP, and have some rare/expensive components...this would give the people that enjoy crafting something to aim for.
As it is, crafting is somewhat pointless...just selling materials for the blue items (crystals and such) is in many cases better than making and selling the actual items. There is something fundamentally wrong with that.
Leadership, on the other hand - now, that is useful. Combined with invocation you can use it to get pretty much your daily 24K AD limit, or use it to provide a trickle of gold to pay for your potions and kits.
Now, alchemy - it is still a few hours until that becomes available, but I have high hopes regarding that. Most likely I will be disappointed, though.
A lot of the money-making potential o the non-leadership professions comes from making high end items. Now these would have been really profitable initially but now that more people have high end crafting then it is far less so, and possibly not even worth spending the AD required to get the tools.
So while i do plan on (slowly) leveling up the other profession without spending and AD, I will initially be focusing on Leadership (and possibly Alchemy) to get some decent benefits without any AD investment.
So, what I am hearing is...unlike other MMO's where crafting serves some purpose it does not in this game. Unless you have a bunch of AD just lying around and it is burning a hole in your pocket. Understood.
Actually I think the crafting in this game is better then most MMO's. Couple reasons its more diverse, complex and time consuming. In the end it yields far greater rewards.
I mainly took my leadership up first really slow at 15 lvl so I backed off. But between alts doing leadership all the time I have made a ton of AD of this.
I farm a lot. I mean a lot by opening nodes chest etc. This is all you have to mainly do to collect the mats that I needed for Platesmith. Not only that I sold my spare mats on the AH. Just not many people know the specifics about the mats what they have in that tab and if it is worth something.
I been working on Platesmith and once I hit 14 lvl it was a breakthrew. Much easier to lvl and been selling fancy plated shirts and pants. Then all the armor plates + 2-4 are used as mats. Some people are impatient so I sell my spares on the AH and they sell as well. So I am fueling my crafts by making AD from it. Once it get max lvl I will be onto the next thing
Alchemy should be awesome and will be something I am lvling after Platesmith. Also Gemmed shirt, pants for platesmith go for 330k-400k AD. I think that is pretty rewarding.
You need to level your profession to near the max (20) in order for it to start being profitable. It's a huge time, gold, AD sink. You need dragon eggs to make the purple stuff... if you are gonna buy them from the AH it goes for around 100-120K .. and unless you have the required tools to make Tier 3 (exquisite) stuff then you can only make up to Tier 2 (which sells for around 200K). You still making money. You need at least 2 epic (purple) + 1 blue tool to make Tier 3 on a decent chance. 3 epic tool for high chance. Yep to make the best stuff in the game you need VAST investment. I probably spent nearly 800K AD just to make Tier 2 stuff. You need to invest millions of AD to make Tier 3.
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m1nuendMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
Well, if few people bothers to max it, then it will be possible to make some profit from selling crafted items at higher level. But if people find out it can be worth the time and start doing it, then the profit will fall, making it redunant again ):
Well, if few people bothers to max it, then it will be possible to make some profit from selling crafted items at higher level. But if people find out it can be worth the time and start doing it, then the profit will fall, making it redunant again ):
It's profitable. But only on certain things that the AH isn't flooded with. The time and effort sometimes isn't worth it (it depends on what is on demand and what is on sale). Plus timing is the key here. Ever since the cleric nerf I have noticed a fall off in sales of cleric gear but a rise in GWF gear. So you got to account for that. Yes even marketing your product and decided what to make requires strategy. Then of course there's leadership.. it's a win win tradeskill .. you basically invest in...you recoup your cost little by little... and become profitable after a all long long time. But you don't have to worry about things like selling your stuff.
I think a way to to make crafting worth something is to add set pieces. I think it would be great if they offered a lot more lower level gear of all rarity levels, just having more options to choose from would be great. Maybe cutting back on the experience required to level up would be a good idea too. I have no idea how many chain armor +2 I have made by now.
Still fairly low level at the moment I find that sometime when a "Rare" Item changes you can only see the Rare Item and nothing else, so I can't craft any lvl 1, 2 or 3 ltems to help level my skill until the Rare resets.
When people said it cost them loads? In what way? I have just got my Tailoring to level 10, I've also got my Leadership to level 8 and I've paid almost nothing to get it to that level. Buying thread from the store and that's about it (which isn't expensive), since you don't really have much else to spend gold on any way. When leveling I constantly carried all the items to open boxes and this meant I haven't run out of materials not that I need them at the moment, I can level it without the green materials. Time sink? It takes like 2 seconds to put up what you want to craft.
Also free Astral diamonds for just clicking a button? People complain over anything.
I hate crafting in all MMORPGs except for Neverwinter simply because I can level it while not caring about it!
I log, I collect my crafted goods, I start up a bunch of others and then I play the game. Whenever I hear a little "Ding" I pause for 30 seconds to start a new craft and then continue playing. Then before logging off for the night, I start even more crafts so that the next day I'll log and have stuff to collect again!
See? Isn't this awesome? In other MMORPGs, I actually have to stop playing the game (PVE, PVP, having fun) just to worry about levelling my professions! In NW, crafting is actually an excuse for me to take a tiny 10 to 30 second break while playing the game, and in the end, I'm levelling my crafting professions and making money! For the first time ever, I'm actually levelling a crafting professions while levelling and playing my character!
In games like World of Warcraft, I never even touched crafting professions until I reached the cap level and was bored out of my mind that I had nothing better to do than hang around Stormwind for the next 2 to 3 hours levelling up professions by buying the mats at the AH or occasionally leaving SW to farm the mats on my own.
On my Guardian Fighter, I am currently able to make things better than I can use at the moment. While questing, I keep the gather iron ore (Now high quality iron ore) task up at all times across as many slots as I can manage... And before I go to bed (Or just before logging out,) I drop as many slots on mass steel plates as I can, filling the remaining slots if any with leadership tasks. Then when I log in again, I take the newly minted steel plates, search my tasks for upgrades that I can use now, or will be able to use in a level or two, and I start them.
I have spent no AD on crafting, and only a couple of gold pieces for assets.
When people said it cost them loads? In what way? I have just got my Tailoring to level 10, I've also got my Leadership to level 8 and I've paid almost nothing to get it to that level. Buying thread from the store and that's about it (which isn't expensive), since you don't really have much else to spend gold on any way. When leveling I constantly carried all the items to open boxes and this meant I haven't run out of materials not that I need them at the moment, I can level it without the green materials. Time sink? It takes like 2 seconds to put up what you want to craft.
Also free Astral diamonds for just clicking a button? People complain over anything.
You need at least green tool to craft anything worthwhile. Leadership you can make AD from nothing.. that's why most ppl go for leadership..
I am a big proponent of crowd-sourcing for video game design and this topic is a perfect example.
The players know much more about what will/won't work than most designers. I just wish more dev houses took advantage of the free info provided them by their fan base.
Comments
I find it's ok, and something else to do other then wait in a Q line....
"Sir, were now surrounded"!
Thats great news son, now we can attack from ALL sides"!
I only do the rare tasks when they'll produce an upgrade, because otherwise the materials consumed aren't worth it.
Haven't spent any ADs to rush tasks, just let the long ones run while I'm unavailable. And I have lots of time to worry about whether or not I "need" assets better than the white ones.
I am able to sell items I craft on the AH, without constantly lowballing prices. You just need to actually think about what you're doing for a few minutes, maybe research the market, and not expect the rewards to come instantly.
Probably this is another argument for levelling in this game being ridiculously fast.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
You only need one toon to be the designated crafter, for outfitting alts or selling craftables. That has the benefit of keeping all your assets on one toon, who will also eventually have all the task windows unlocked. For the rest of your alts, nothing but Leadership and Alchemy!
It would probably flow a little better if the experience gains (and with that - levelling) in this game weren't so ridicuously huge and easy to come by.
Not sure where you get the definition of 'paradoxical', but I'm assuming you mean something like futile or useless as a undertaking.
Eitherway, there are several examples of crafting being well implemented in games to great effect. No PW games I can think of, but plenty others that focused on variation on crafted product with a strong emphasis on consumables like SWG back in the day. Or a technical and very adaptable crafting system (i.e. Vanguard SOH) that let players decide on quantity/quality on each item with player crafted gear getting preferred 'required level' stats so two pieces of gear with similar stats (one crafted and one a mob drop) the crafted gear would be usable at a lower level. And crafting required tools and materials that had to be crafted by other crafting chains.
For these thrown together 'ease of use' MMOs crafting is usually a side thought as the preferred player activity is endless 'raiding' for the newest endgame set. Gear crafting typically has no place in such a system, but crafting consumables like food or drink that enhance stats would be quite viable.
That was my exact complaint when crafting first came out in closed testing. I don't like crafting in this game. The only thing I do is leadership to get a few extra XP and AD while offline.
I like to craft items that I can use while leveling. I don't really know what the designers were thinking when they made this system.
Really? It took you a fortune to level crafting to 12? I think you did it wrong then.
Part One: The Fell Cavern (looking for feedback!) NW-DTWX9RBQH
Hopefully more to come!
How in the world did you spend a fortune on crafting? Did you speed it up? Why?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
So the market changed from an oligopoly and people responded logically, bringing prices down. Not sure how that makes them <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. Glad you reaped your outsized profits while you did though.
Roll a character, get him to Protector Enclave, he will never leave PE until profession is maxed.
Begin a profession that will benefit the above character in some way
Roll another character, level it normally, send mats to first character
level professions on first character until maxed
Delete second character
Make new character
Get it to Protector's Enclave
Pick a profession that will benefit new character
Begin leveling first character and sending mats to third character
Professions won. Celebrate.
Sound ridiculous? It is, forget professions.
It can certainly be done. Think, for example, if the current crafting system leveled about as fast as you did, allowing you to make some half-decent blue lv60 gear by the time you got the proffession to lv10. It would not be very efficient, or anywhere close to being the best gear around, but it would be a reliable gear source that you didn't outlevel too fast. Then , here's the catch: the next 10 levels, up to 20, would still be about lv60 gear, but this time more efficiently, until eventually you can use it as an income source rather than just a source of cheap gear for yourself. Things like doing the same recipes but with fewer components/faster/with the chance of adding gem slots, until at lv 20 you can, if you have all the ingredients, craft a tier 2 purple set.
In short, have the proffession level in a similar pace as your character, and after your level cap have it evolve further, from a simple convenience tool to a legitimate in-game job.
Indeed, this would be a great idea. And even better if the tasks themselves evolved as the profession leveled up so you didn't have so much <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> to scroll through everytime.
Now as for using the crafting professions to make money - for many items you can make you will actually be better off just selling the raw materials on the AH. There are a few exceptions, though.
I was looking at the high-end items the other day - the gemmed exquisite (chain) shirts and pants. They sell for around 350.000 AD, with the Tier 2 (non-gemmed) version selling for around 150.000
Now, assuming (yeah, yeah, it is a big assumption) that you have 4 purple tools, you have a 60% chance of getting the gemmed one, so your expected return should be (40%*150.000)+(60%*350.000) would be 270.000. If you got all the components in drops, fine, but if you had to buy them, the average component cost would be around 150.000. That still leaves 120.000 in net profit.
The problem is that 4 purple tools would cost you around 4.000.000 AD, so you would have to make over 30 pants/shirts just to break even.
Now, you can only make one at a time, and only start during the (rare) moments when the pants/shirt recipe is available - which might take you a couple of months.....and during the same time, some others might be doing the same thing, which would drive up the price of the dragon eggs, making this less and less profitable.
One way to make professions more meaningful would be to allow people to make more useful stuff for themselves - make gear comparable to T1 gear, but make it BoP, and have some rare/expensive components...this would give the people that enjoy crafting something to aim for.
As it is, crafting is somewhat pointless...just selling materials for the blue items (crystals and such) is in many cases better than making and selling the actual items. There is something fundamentally wrong with that.
Leadership, on the other hand - now, that is useful. Combined with invocation you can use it to get pretty much your daily 24K AD limit, or use it to provide a trickle of gold to pay for your potions and kits.
Now, alchemy - it is still a few hours until that becomes available, but I have high hopes regarding that. Most likely I will be disappointed, though.
This pretty much answers the OP. Nice post.
A short solo hack-n-slash: The Dirty Dwarf
Cryptics... YOu should copy the system.
So while i do plan on (slowly) leveling up the other profession without spending and AD, I will initially be focusing on Leadership (and possibly Alchemy) to get some decent benefits without any AD investment.
Actually I think the crafting in this game is better then most MMO's. Couple reasons its more diverse, complex and time consuming. In the end it yields far greater rewards.
I mainly took my leadership up first really slow at 15 lvl so I backed off. But between alts doing leadership all the time I have made a ton of AD of this.
I farm a lot. I mean a lot by opening nodes chest etc. This is all you have to mainly do to collect the mats that I needed for Platesmith. Not only that I sold my spare mats on the AH. Just not many people know the specifics about the mats what they have in that tab and if it is worth something.
I been working on Platesmith and once I hit 14 lvl it was a breakthrew. Much easier to lvl and been selling fancy plated shirts and pants. Then all the armor plates + 2-4 are used as mats. Some people are impatient so I sell my spares on the AH and they sell as well. So I am fueling my crafts by making AD from it. Once it get max lvl I will be onto the next thing
Alchemy should be awesome and will be something I am lvling after Platesmith. Also Gemmed shirt, pants for platesmith go for 330k-400k AD. I think that is pretty rewarding.
It's profitable. But only on certain things that the AH isn't flooded with. The time and effort sometimes isn't worth it (it depends on what is on demand and what is on sale). Plus timing is the key here. Ever since the cleric nerf I have noticed a fall off in sales of cleric gear but a rise in GWF gear. So you got to account for that. Yes even marketing your product and decided what to make requires strategy. Then of course there's leadership.. it's a win win tradeskill .. you basically invest in...you recoup your cost little by little... and become profitable after a all long long time. But you don't have to worry about things like selling your stuff.
Also free Astral diamonds for just clicking a button? People complain over anything.
I log, I collect my crafted goods, I start up a bunch of others and then I play the game. Whenever I hear a little "Ding" I pause for 30 seconds to start a new craft and then continue playing. Then before logging off for the night, I start even more crafts so that the next day I'll log and have stuff to collect again!
See? Isn't this awesome? In other MMORPGs, I actually have to stop playing the game (PVE, PVP, having fun) just to worry about levelling my professions! In NW, crafting is actually an excuse for me to take a tiny 10 to 30 second break while playing the game, and in the end, I'm levelling my crafting professions and making money! For the first time ever, I'm actually levelling a crafting professions while levelling and playing my character!
In games like World of Warcraft, I never even touched crafting professions until I reached the cap level and was bored out of my mind that I had nothing better to do than hang around Stormwind for the next 2 to 3 hours levelling up professions by buying the mats at the AH or occasionally leaving SW to farm the mats on my own.
I have spent no AD on crafting, and only a couple of gold pieces for assets.
You need at least green tool to craft anything worthwhile. Leadership you can make AD from nothing.. that's why most ppl go for leadership..
The players know much more about what will/won't work than most designers. I just wish more dev houses took advantage of the free info provided them by their fan base.