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Upcoming changes to threat. Thoughts on how it well pan out.
aewano
Member Posts: 16 Arc User
Now fellow clerics, according to the next update and what it entails, are threat may be fixed. As shown by this
"Threat from Healing is now spread across enemies in an encounter, generating less for each enemy in the encounter."
Taken from here
http://nw.perfectworld.com/news/?p=907501
Now to me, this sounds like an over-complicated fix that probably well cause more problems, that it actually fixes.
Starting with how, with low adds and at the beginning of the boss encounter we well still generate as much threat as right now. SO no actual threat change until its a load of adds when our heals now reduce in overall threat. This to me seems like a sort of rip off since by that time the decrease takes affect, the adds well be on us. Or if we have a team that kills adds, they well be on us always, as right now.
I'd just like to see what other clerics are thinking about this.
"Threat from Healing is now spread across enemies in an encounter, generating less for each enemy in the encounter."
Taken from here
http://nw.perfectworld.com/news/?p=907501
Now to me, this sounds like an over-complicated fix that probably well cause more problems, that it actually fixes.
Starting with how, with low adds and at the beginning of the boss encounter we well still generate as much threat as right now. SO no actual threat change until its a load of adds when our heals now reduce in overall threat. This to me seems like a sort of rip off since by that time the decrease takes affect, the adds well be on us. Or if we have a team that kills adds, they well be on us always, as right now.
I'd just like to see what other clerics are thinking about this.
Post edited by aewano on
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Biggest worry is the changes to astrial shield, make it trigger rightousness and thus it will do 40% less healing on the cleric that cast it, if I understand correctly.
Feast of the Moon | Rising of the Dark | Shadow of the World | Everdark
Feast of the Moon | Rising of the Dark | Shadow of the World | Everdark
BTW, GF aggro generation is up by 35%. That's a very, very big thing for clerics.
Clerics solo everything in every other MMO? I think you exaggerate a bit.
I only see:
"this skill has been nerfed"
"that skill has been nerfed"
"those feats have been nerfed"
oh and: We did something to Divine Glow, but we may not have fixed it.
Yes please, just what clerics needed: Nefs.
I guess i will not waste my time ni this game until i can play a healing class whici is not nerfed on purpose. Let's say... Bard? Druid?
I'll see ya when those classes are available.
I want this class in NW.
Now slightly off-topic, but I am actually angry they haven't fixed/touched any of our T2 set bonuses.
I am no expert by a long stretch, but do fine with no complaints so far and have had few GF that couldn't hold aggro on a few mobs and the boss over me as long as I took some care. I have a GWF friend who does an ace job keeping an eye on me (I'll admit a good CONTROL Wizard would be better - I really don't thk most wizards see the control part in there name;p)
I may still not use Sooth btw even if fixed, rather have Foresight and the AP gain 1.
Anyways, I have seen little of worry in the changes to come really, as long as threat gets just a little better, its a win, but I don't mind to much. Eternal Boon decrease in Divinity gain is alittle concerning, but again, nothing to throw my toys out the pram about;D
Bet extra classes well be Pay for soon, if you noticed in one of their other news they mentioned a "free expansion" to a F2P game. Makes me wonder that they are going to start charging us very soon to play further than point X.
Threat change sounds fairly well done, but only time will tell. Still means party members will need to pick up adds or they will stay on the cleric, and that is good. But if people actually go out of their way to make sure they are tagging mobs they should be fairly easy to peal off.
Wonder how long it is with that fix.
Ethereal boon fix means less divine power, but hopefully threat changes mean I can attack more and that will net out.
Other than the AS stacking, doesn't seem to really impact all that much. Was kind of expecting to see bigger changes.
"Mod 6. Oh my f****** god. It gutted the game pure and simple. And what wasn't gutted was messed up by the poorly thought out new level cap and equip. The game never recovered from that atrocity".
..............not this one then.............
The irony is it already gives too little to begin with, judging by the description.
Also they didn't fix prophetic action ):
Cleric was already incredibly boring to play in this game and has no customization options, I was waiting for the patch to change things.
Unfortunately all it is is nerfs so cya!
Cleanse is now completely worthless, there's goes atleast 2 of my feat points gone lol.
Bastion of Health is still completely terrible, it needs to have like half the cooldown lol.
Ethereal Boon will now be terrible, and there's not much else to replace it with, because our feats in general are HAMSTER.
If Astral Shield/Forgemaster are going to be reduced by Righteousness, clerics will be nothing, good luck staying alive.
And the threat changes, all that sounds like is it'll consistently put 100% of the mobs on the cleric instead of 90% of the mobs, so I guess if we're still able to uber tank it up somehow that would be a good thing for tank clerics lolol.
The fact that Divine Glow isn't fixed either is just... ugh.
Feat: Cleanse: When a player cleanses other targets, the player also now cleanses himself or herself.
Feat: Cleanse: The cleanse effect now only removes one debuff at a time.
Feat: Cleanse: The cleanse effect no longer removes the "recently died" debuff."
I am going to assume that the 20 second cooldown on cleanse will be universal since it also cleanses the Cleric and the Cleric cannot be cleansed again for 20 seconds.
Would have preferred to see them start with a 10 second cooldown and adjust from there if it were still "too good".
- Drizzt Do'Urden
― R.A. Salvatore
What debuffs are worth cleansing aside form the "recently died" debuff? I honestly can't think of any - and that makes cleanse awful WITHOUT the 20-second cooldown.
It means the overepowered mitigation debuffs and CC's in pvp are going to completely destroy any clerics in pvp now.
Before it took it's nerf... Enfeeblement in PvP. Now... who knows exactly how bad double stacks of Enfeeble are, so how worthwhile cleanse is... Cleanse should remove enfeeble, bleed, poison, and other similar conditions (But I'd have to parse alot of logs to tell if it is or not).
Bingo.
This is an *enormous* nerf for clerics. It's bad for PvE and devastating for PvP.
Maybe I am misreading things here but here is my interpretation
Astral Seal: The healing from this power no longer tapers off more quickly than expected.
Apparently, current in game time the healing ability is ending quicker that its supposed to
Astral Shield: Players may now only be affected by one instance of Astral Shield at a time.
This needed to happen standing in 2 shields and avoid damage or out heal the damage is broken and not as intended
Astral Shield: The healing from the Divine version of this power is now considered a Heal over Time for healing calculations.
They changed this to a HOT which was probably the original intent, and it will now reach a limit like healing word
Astral Shield: This power no longer incorrectly increases in duration with higher ranks.
Apparently the duration of the shield was increasing when you took rank 2 and 3 and was not the intent
Astral Shield: The shield circle will no longer sometimes disappear when projectiles pass over the center.
This doesn't happen too often but there are few dungeons it does happen in, so nice fix
From the moment I equipped AS I thought the spell was way OP and needed some corrections, I don't think the class was meant to run around a dungeon and throw blue circles on the ground. Honestly I thought they should have switched the Cd's for AS with Bastion of Health. This does mean if you are heavily specked into recovery for the 15 second rotation of AS then you are going to have some issues, as the spell will now end a before the CD timer (or so it appears).
Overall I am not going to jump to conclusions, if the aggro with the GF is fixed and they can taunt and pull mobs off we should be just fine.
Also the way I interpret the balance of heal aggro is different, as they are stating they reduced the threat per mob across the "encounter"; what is their definition of "encounter"? Is that the entire dungeon or instance (which is what I believe), or is an encounter each fight? If it is each fight then we will have a problem with adds in the beginning and when we burn adds down the aggro will increase and switch to us, I don't believe the latter to be the case.
That's my 2 cents your mileage may vary, but I will wait for the patch before I start complaining or jumping to conclusions
Yeah but you can't effectively cleanse those anyway! Astral Shield doesn't proc cleanse, and your other healing abilities are on cooldown too frequently to cleanse it. I mean, there's Astral Shield for cleanses but that doesn't really help. Now it can only remove one debuff and will take forever to proc.
Except that AS is now considered a heal, hot to be exact, so it should proc the cleanse and is subject to righteousness. Basically it's 1 step forward and 20 steps back. If clerics can only cleanse every 20 seconds and it's only a chance then all dots/debuffs need to be the same, otherwise it's completely useless.
I am damm well hoping Astral Shield will not trigger the debuff, it will make 2DC groups even more desired if our AS has a -40% healing too. ATM I solo heal T2's, its hectic, fun and a good challenge, giving me an additional -40% to AS healing may make that second DC look all too attractive since we can drop AS for each other to run around in. Seen alot of people claiming AS will trigger the debuff now, I'm assuming thats because of the *now a heal over time* statement ... I've seen no clear cut - "AS triggers righteousness" tho.
As for hoping GF will keep trash off you, well I would'ent count on it. Will it be easier ya ... the trouble with GF is not so much our aggro generation its our target limit. 3-5 targets on our encounters / enforced threat is more of an issue than 35% threat. I can hold mobs just fine on my GF .. I just cant hold the 100 adds that the boss spawns. Trash packs or 10 mobs, I'll hold 5-7 Nps, adds on the bosses, I'll easy pick up the same amount from our cleric ... it the other 15 that concern me.
Isn't Forgemaster's Flame considered a HoT?
AS's healing is now considered a HoT and HoT's are subject to righteousness.
The aggro change is per fight(basically any mobs that are aggroed). I'm pretty sure they way it will work is like this:
Say there are 10 mobs. Currently when you heal all 10 mobs get 100%(10x100%=1000%) aggro. After this change that same heal will only generate 10% aggro on each mob(10x10%=100%). Obviously as there are more adds it gets spread even more, 20 adds would be 5% each, 100 would be 1%. I don't think this will solve the problem though because heals are the only global aggro. In order for anyone else to gain aggro they need to hit/taunt the mobs, but all a DC needs to do is heal and they come swarming. Basically mobs upon spawning will head right for the DC and we will still have to kite until dps kill it.
No, it currently isn't. Just like AS(currently) it counts as an outside heal(not cast by you) so it isn't impacted by righteousness or any of your healing procs(cleanse/stat link). I didn't see FF mentioned in the notes so lets hope it stays that way.
[Citation Needed]. I'm pretty sure that Forgemaster's Flame is a HoT and it's not subject to righteousness.
EDIT: Okay scratch that then.
Yeah, but at least they won't have to wail on them for 40 seconds to pull them off of us now.
Yes you can, Astral Seal does that.
Healing Word is a hot and doesn't proc Cleanse except when applied.
The ONLY thing that can proc cleanse on "tics" is Astral Seal.
Astral Seal + any dots (even weapon enchants or briartwine enchant) can proc cleanse, and I rolled with 3/3 cleanse so CW's couldn't completely faceroll my cleric.
And frankly, Enfeeble isn't the only offender. There's a TON of nasty debuffs in pvp.
Ah man, I didn't mention astral seal. Astral seal is a pain 'cause it requires you to do damage, which if you're being CC'd then you're unlikely to be able to do such a thing.
Though I guess if you tag someone with Seal +Brand you might be able to cleanse yourself out of it? I haven't PVPed too much honestly.