How to one shot anyone in pvp without them ever seeing you

quitegonejin

I want to call to attention something that is destroying the balance in pvp (what little we have at all) in hopes that it gets nerfed hard. But until then, if you want to one shot anyone without them ever having a chance to fight back, this is what you do:

So rogues have 3 ways of re-entering stealth in succession right after they pop, the ability to get off a full chain of throwing daggers before popping stealth (clone, shadowstrike iirc) AND they can frontload 20k+ (that is the low end) dmg from Tene procs BEFORE THEY LEAVE STEALTH FROM RANGED. So this cheese build allows them to do that back to back 1, from stealth, 2 from clone staying stealthed, 3 from shadowstrike re-entering stealth once again and if they use the talent that allows you to build stealth meter without loss from damage they can then instantly start this all over again. PERMANENTLY NEVER LEAVING STEALTH and one shotting people with dagger throws. Just right clicking from ranged while completely invisible and winning.

Now, I have a 13k GS rogue (among other toons that should be viable for pvp) and I can afford the tene-cheese build but refuse to do it in hopes that it will be nerfed, but until it does there is no competing with it in pvp. At all. Nerf it into the F'Kn ground now. not "Soon™" but right now.

The pvp in this game is just terrible. No matter how cool the abilities are, ragdoll effects and combat interactions, you couple the worst balance in an mmo ever with a cash shop and broken queue's that allow 3v5's and you let it ride like that for weeks. This is my 1st experience with PWE, but not Cryptic and to be honest I am ashamed I ever called myself a fan of Cryptic. All the years I spent talking them up over CoH are a complete regret for me.

Game feels like a massive cash grab.


Rogues should be appalled at this, this is one of the reasons you will get your class nerfed hard, and it will HAMSTER you off but it will be ebcause of these procs and not your class. Sadly, if Tene's arent fixed soon I can imagine misguided people blaming the class and not knowing better.


Oh, more examples for the other classes, a Greater plague fire in your main hand, a soulforge in your armor and greater tene's in all your offense slots for the win, tank classes, build all tank, spec all tank/hp and use these enchants. They procc off your max health so the tankier you are the more damage you can frontload. GWFs are great for this as they have good tanky sets, fast attack speed and aoes for proccing. GF's also. Mages with this and the shadow weave ? (crit severity set) can proc eye of the storm then double tab enfeebles for a free kill. Tenes can proc off every dot tick...

Clerics might be the only class that cannot use this cheesy HAMSTER to win. Oh well, sorry guys.

mconosrep

Sorry to hear about this, but you don't actually think that Cryptic are going to nerf TRs when they constitute the largest percentage of their players (in fact almost as much as GWF, GF and DCs combined according to one post I saw).......

quitegonejin

Did you even read what I wrote?

musashinokami

mconosrep wrote: »

Sorry to hear about this, but you don't actually think that Cryptic are going to nerf TRs when they constitute the largest percentage of their players (in fact almost as much as GWF, GF and DCs combined according to one post I saw).......

And why are there so many rogues in your opinion you genius ?

Kiddos love easy wins...

quitegonejin

I am not calling for a rogue nerf. At all, wow poeple cannot read. I can handle rogues on my GWF, GF AND CW (Sorry, haven't played a cleric yet) but these TENE enchants are HAMSTER.

damianess

This is how it is at endgame pvp, everyone runs around with greater plague fire and tenes enchants. I learned this first hand when I hit 60 and queued up for a pvp match. I was taking damage and was low on health, so I dodged away and hit stealth. Lo and behold, I go from 3k health to 0 in an instant. Looked at the combat log and saw GPF proccing tenes for 700+ a pop for seven procs.

Because of that, I run with the same enchants because it's the only way to be competitive at endgame pvp. I thought my original build of 2.2k arm pen, 50% crit with overrun critical and vorpal enchant was the way to go but I was wrong. Replaced my rank 7 dark & azure enchants with tenebrous, vorpal for GPF, and it's like night and day when it comes to the overall damage output I originally had.

traciatim1

mconosrep wrote: »

Sorry to hear about this, but you don't actually think that Cryptic are going to nerf TRs when they constitute the largest percentage of their players (in fact almost as much as GWF, GF and DCs combined according to one post I saw).......

The only reason so many players play them is because there is no point in playing the other classes unless they get a nerf.

quitegonejin

traciatim1 wrote: »

The only reason so many players play them is because there is no point in playing the other classes unless they get a nerf.

Another person who can't read. TR's are fine, TENE's need removing or retooling.

spacejew

Why would they take them out though? Isn't the point of PvP so that people go and buy 10$ wards?

I mean, I imagine they've made at least a few hundred thousand dollars off people buying them already. Do you think anyone's caught onto the scam yet?

Uh oh, someone's seen through the smoke screen! Rebalance! Rebalance!

isopoint

Judging from your post I got the impression you were complaining about the stealth build rather then the tene enchants. Personally I think the stealth build is more a problem then the enchant so everyone can get enchants.

leillanna

mconosrep wrote: »

Sorry to hear about this, but you don't actually think that Cryptic are going to nerf TRs when they constitute the largest percentage of their players (in fact almost as much as GWF, GF and DCs combined according to one post I saw).......

I don't think they are going to nerf rogues skills per say.....but...from reading between the lines from the announcement about the upcoming patch, I do think they are going to swing the nerf bat heavily at stacking/procing enchants...Just sayin...don't be surprised if it happens.

quitegonejin

leillanna wrote: »

I don't think they are going to nerf rogues skills per say.....but...from reading between the lines from the announcement about the upcoming patch, I do think they are going to swing the nerf bat heavily at stacking/procing enchants...Just sayin...don't be surprised if it happens.

One can only hope.

travail01

Whenever an optional item becomes a "must have", then either that item needs a nerf, or the other options need to be buffed to a point where they are just as viable.

Since this combination of Plaguefire/Tenebrous enchantments can allow players to kill each other much faster than (I assume) is intended by the developers, I'd say a nerf of some kind is justified, here.

-Travail.

gctrl

travail01 wrote: »

Whenever an optional item becomes a "must have", then either that item needs a nerf, or the other options need to be buffed to a point where they are just as viable.

Since this combination of Plaguefire/Tenebrous enchantments can allow players to kill each other much faster than (I assume) is intended by the developers, I'd say a nerf of some kind is justified, here.

-Travail.

Why would they nerf them? EVERYONE can get enchants, if all/most players have these enchants who cares? Everyone is essentially on the same footing. Rogues might need to be toned down a bit, but for the most part this game is really well balanced.

kidbs

gctrl wrote: »

Why would they nerf them? EVERYONE can get enchants, if all/most players have these enchants who cares? Everyone is essentially on the same footing. Rogues might need to be toned down a bit, but for the most part this game is really well balanced.

It doesn't matter if everyone can get them. The fact that you can be killed by rogues who utilitize these procs before ever coming out of stealth means they are grossly OP. you can't do much to prevent this damage when the rogue is stealthed and using a ranged attack.

dominemesis

quitegonejin wrote: »

Oh, more examples for the other classes, a Greater plague fire in your main hand, a soulforge in your armor and greater tene's in all your offense slots for the win, tank classes, build all tank, spec all tank/hp and use these enchants. They procc off your max health so the tankier you are the more damage you can frontload. GWFs are great for this as they have good tanky sets, fast attack speed and aoes for proccing. GF's also. Mages with this and the shadow weave ? (crit severity set) can proc eye of the storm then double tab enfeebles for a free kill. Tenes can proc off every dot tick...

Clerics might be the only class that cannot use this cheesy HAMSTER to win. Oh well, sorry guys.

If everyone can benefit from the Tenebrous enchant then why is it a problem? Except maybe not Clerics. If everyone can do it, doesn't that mean the playing field is still level?

ranncore

dominemesis wrote: »

If everyone can benefit from the Tenebrous enchant then why is it a problem? Except maybe not Clerics. If everyone can do it, doesn't that mean the playing field is still level?

It means it's level only as long as you are using these two enchantments. Certainly the others are supposed to be useful as well?

danxbx

kidbs wrote: »

It doesn't matter if everyone can get them. The fact that you can be killed by rogues who utilitize these procs before ever coming out of stealth means they are grossly OP. you can't do much to prevent this damage when the rogue is stealthed and using a ranged attack.

It's a PvP build. If you want to PvP, then make that build. People can beg for balance 7 days a week, but at the end of the day, there is always one optimal build...

empiren

OP has 13k GS and is doing PVP

Sorry but on any class you'll still pretty much ohko.

Rogue's stealth should only apply to melee, range stealth is too much.

mohawkr

...you do realize you can attack rogues who are in stealth, right? as-in... if you just look at the animations you can see where they are, walk or roll over to them, and beat the HAMSTER out of them, right? as-in IF YOU TRY AND CATCH THEM THEY LOSE

mohawkr

Also rogue ranged attacks are limited to 12 in a row maximum and recharge slowly 1 at a time

squid2d

mohawkr wrote: »

Also rogue ranged attacks are limited to 12 in a row maximum and recharge slowly 1 at a time

i like your usage of the word 'limited'. very creative

giving tr's so much range and mobility is just a mistake. add in unlimited stealth and it's just broken in pvp

kenjilee

squid2d wrote: »

i like your usage of the word 'limited'. very creative

giving tr's so much range and mobility is just a mistake. add in unlimited stealth and it's just broken in pvp

More broken are CC abilities that hold you in place for several seconds while doing 30-50% of your HP

squid2d

kenjilee wrote: »

More broken are CC abilities that hold you in place for several seconds while doing 30-50% of your HP

I don't disagree.

But this is a thread about stealthy one-shotting tr builds

tallisi

quitegonejin wrote: »

Did you even read what I wrote?

Pretty sure that he did. You wrote that stealth is worked. He answered that they won't nerf is because all PvPers play stealth.

Solid argument, if you ask me: PvP in this game is for exploiters only and they seem to be 100% OK with that. So, why would they change something, knowing fully well that only cheaters PvP in this game anyway?

knoteskad

kenjilee wrote: »

More broken are CC abilities that hold you in place for several seconds while doing 30-50% of your HP

It's the flat -50% mitigation debuff from Ray of Skill doing that, not the stunlock itself.

I have a stunlock build that's 100% focused on just Recovery/CC/Defensive stats and if I don't use Ray I'll tickle people, then use Ray and people melt.

yasha00

gctrl wrote: »

Why would they nerf them? EVERYONE can get enchants, if all/most players have these enchants who cares? Everyone is essentially on the same footing.

Because the enchants in question have the unintended consequence of making the (pvp) game suck.

itheryel

Pvp should have gearscore brackets of some kind at lvl 60 anywayz '-.-, enter it now with a fresh lvl 60 toon without enchants and well...go figure it out....

I do agree with the op btw, making one enchant disable all the others (ore a combination of 2) should never be intented by design and should be nerfed.

kidbs

danxbx wrote: »

It's a PvP build. If you want to PvP, then make that build. People can beg for balance 7 days a week, but at the end of the day, there is always one optimal build...

I didn't realize all classes had stealth and a ranged attack to use while in stealth! Oh I get it, you're saying everyone should be playing TRs with stacked tenebrous enchants. Sounds like fun pvp!

balorin

I don't care about rouges dammages, but the ability to throw knifes totally invisible without the opportunity to fight back is clearly something ridiculous.
It should be the only thing to remove.

morvek01

It needs to be limited to 1 greater, regular, lesser tenebrous enchant. That way folks still want multiples but the proc rates wouldn't be insane. 3 of them could then be slotted instead of the 6 greaters you can currently slot.