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Lack of Clerics
leshil40
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 157 Bounty Hunter
Since dungeons require at least one cleric, it makes it real hard to even do them when you can't ever seem to get one. All day long using just the Q system there were issues with getting a cleric in group and without it was just a wipe fest on most of the bosses.
Post edited by leshil40 on
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Its almost like most people dont want to deal with the pressure of being absolutely necessary to a team and being the first person to get screamed at if things go bad.
Also wish I had a reliable group to play with, but I don't play well with others haha
Useless post. Lots of these kinda posts. Instead of being the forum DB, chime in and help push for some changes to better the game overall. There's a reason people aren't flocking to cleric and to CW and TR instead.
I can actually deal with the healgro assuming the rest of the group don't go completely braindead on me. Most ive been in lately have done it right...1 or 2 protecting the cleric when adds pop up the rest on the main target, then everyone pile on the main target when no adds present...oh and keep all legs and arms inside the blue circle at all times (or at least most of the time). I guess im saying it is broken..but not as broken as people say it is as far as agro. You can peel things off a cleric if the group works together right, of course there are times its beneficial to have things on the cleric...take throne of idris. Having the hulks on me tends to be more beneficial at the end then on someone facestabbing Idris. I drop astral, i drop hallowed, throw seal on idris and they pretty much take care of themselves while the annoying hulks just lumber after me while i powerslide and throw a few blasts to build divinity.
but yeah, back on topic, the population of clerics will go up too when they finally do this shard merge don't forget. Assuming they haven't driven us all off by then.
Anyway, healing in this game just gets plain boring after level 60. Astral Shield > Sun Burst > Astral Seal > rinse > repeat. Maybe throw in a Forgemaster's Flame or something for good measure. Once I reached 60 and ran a few dungeons, I realized that all I could do (all I was expected to do) was throw down the blue circle in the right spot.
Of course, healing is pretty much the same in every game (with regards to repeating the same tasks over and over) but it just feels so dull in this one.
lol... Have you played ANY MMO before? Healers and tanks are ALWAYS on demand, and people are always saying there's not enough of them.
There's nothing broken or wrong with healing in this game -- and yes, I do play a cleric. It's vastly different from other games so it takes getting used to but once you do it's a lot more fun than healing in other games.
What does affect the number of healers is, as others said, the potential stress of dealing with keeping the group alive -- and with all the screaming and blame-festing that usually targets a healer -- and THAT is not something that any developer can change because it's human nature.
- What Class Are You? -
the queue looks for a good matchup, if it can't find one in time it matches you with the rest (hence the awesome 1 gwf 4 tr groups). theoretically it is still possible to clear most dungeons this way.
but considering all the other bs involving the queue, it's always better to enter with a premade.
because queues are utterly fcked. seriously. make a full group with perfect lineup (one of every class), queue and still wait 20+ minutes. the real fun begins when you can't invite replacements later cause it's a "queued dungeon".
Take Frozen heart boss fight not a major fight, kiting the big golems, trolls around the room is not a problem, the archers are now a different story they just pick you off slowly and you don't have enough time to stop and burn one down. If no one bothers to kill them which happens most of the time in pickup groups even if you tell people please kill the archers..... we wipe, wipe, wipe and potions are costing me an absolute fortune in gold in pickup groups.
I do feel the heals are under powered though, even now that I've hit 60, but overall I rarely struggle and feel relatively competitive (even with no fancy gear yet.) My alt is TR and while quite fun to play, I have always preferred healers and look forward to progressing and seeing how clerics develop once the level cap is raised.
[And as far as the queuing goes, like others have said, even as a cleric it can still take me half an hour to get placed in a group.]
Another issue is people's preconceived ideas. I had no idea what kind of heals a cleric had or how taunting worked for a GF. So I rolled them and plan to bring them at least to 30. If anything, it's given me a new appreciation of people who play their cleric and tank well. It's not just that you have to learn your own class, you'll need to know about the others too.
just my 2 cents.
I see it all over and it truly just baffles me.
I actually main a cleric and I love it. Definitely repetitive at 60 but that's mainly, imo, due to the OP Shield. That thing needs to get toned down.
However I can safely say I don't ever feel like I have too much aggro. I get a lot of aggro but I don't get too much. The only time I die is when the party focuses too much on the boss rather than my safety.
Honestly if you get 5 friends together who try to kill a any add they see the moment they spawn the game is actually too easy IMO. The cleric aggro issues are the sole cause of the party not addressing the true issue: keeping the mobs off the cleric.
And then of course GWF are gimped. I seriously don't get it. GWF in Epic Dungeons are generally on par with TR's. They do not have the same amount of damage to individuals as a TR but they have a ton of sustain and clear a heck of a lot faster. I have been in numerous dungeons where I have three TR's and it makes me want to cry. A dungeon with three GWF's is doable but 3 TR's is a death sentence to me in boss fights. They simply can't kill the adds.
And of course GF's are often moaned about. In PvP I don't mind rogues. I don't mind GWF's. I think CW's have a bit too much damage in PvP but are otherwise fine to deal with. However the main threat to my team in every PvP match is the **** Guardian Fighter. He keeps me on my rear end non-stop. I can't run from him. I can't fight him head on. I can't do my job when he's around. GF's win games.
I have to say your assessment of the situation is probably more accurate than you could imagine. I have friends who play every single class and they all love their classes. My GF friend thinks he's got the second most powerful class and can't believe that anybody would think otherwise. My GWF friend feels like he needs more individual damage (and I agree) but he doesn't feel gimped.
I would certainly love to see my arenal of clerical powers go up though. Right now I call my Astral Shield the "Blue Circle of Never Dieing" and it's a beyond accurate name.
I don't think some of the harder dungeons would be possible without the level of healing supplied but I'd rather see some diversisty in how that healing can be applied. The Astral Shield is like the easy way out IMO. I'd like to see some harder but more rewarding heals come into play to liven up the cleric gameplay and after that point I suspect more people would want to play them.
In Neverwinter the healer shortage is greatly affected by the popularity of forming groups with 2 clerics. Whenever delves are up /zone in PE is just LFM DC or LFM 2xDC spam.
1. clerics not only have to be the healer, they are required to off tank everything.
2. I cannot respec without paying $6 because I have a life and cannot camp the AH to make ****tons of AD
3. DPS like to faceroll then yell at the healer/offtank.
Actually, in here, is things go bad the first one to get the hit should be CW.
Im playing an endgame cleric and i love it, on premade groups is really good because they know what to do in every part like take adds off me and then focus in the boss. I have tried sooth maxed out and doing the "take off gear put it back on" i haven't feel any difference on the aggro system. Do you think it is broken?
And on pick up groups, there should be a fix in the queue system cause of the reason you have said, a group of 1 cleric and 4 tr is not good. i've got severaly experiences with this in frozen heart and is horrible. I think soothe should be reviewed since its "broken"
Premades are better, particularly with a good control wizard.
I never tried taking off sooth. I figured it would just be a death sentence. I'll try that some time but if you feel something is broken report it! The dev team will look into it if you send in reports.
The queue system should also be getting improvements as stated in the State of the Game article.
That's just not possible.
In order to get in one you have to give in another.
If all the classes dished out the same amount of damage nobody would play a TR because they're too squishy. Guardian fighters would be able to take much more damage without any drawbacks. The same concept applies to Clerics.
The more powerful you are in one aspect the weaker you are in another.
The more damage you give the less damage you can take.
The more life you give the less life you can take.
There isn't a class based system in the world which doesn't follow those basic concepts in some way. They might be more complex like 2nd edition (stronger classes take longer to level) but overall the better you are on one thing the worse you have to be in something else.
I am working on my 3rd 60 at the moment. My first was a Devoted Cleric, and it's just flat out boring to do dungeons at 60.
Every group wants 2 Clerics, and dps. Clerics stack circles, everyone stand inside and kill stuff. Absolutely 0 strategy involved. You don't even have to avoid red circles, you just run back into the blue circles if you get knocked out.
You don't get 2 Clerics? Then it just becomes a kick the Cleric contest where I get stunned/silenced/punted by all of the 15 mobs in the group, I spam my blue circle, spam my AoE damage/heal ability and throw Astral Seal on a few mobs in between all the CC i'm eating from the mobs. And surprisingly enough...even that is boring. It's dreary and repetitive.
Unfortunately end game in Neverwinter currently lacks any form of substance.
My DC has a 13k GS, has completed all content currently in the game and to be quite honest I struggled to not just close the game in the middle of the dungeons due to complete boredom. There is no diversity from Cleric to Cleric, and all bosses are more or less exactly the same, blue circles and win. Furthermore, how you play PvE is exactly how you play PvP with the DC. Blue circles and win.
My GF has a 15.2k GS, has completed all content currently in the game as an actual tank spec. He was more interesting because I actually had to work really hard to get/hold agro of as much as possible, and I received many compliments on my ability to hold agro which was nice. But I like to PvP and quite frankly when I hit like a wet noodle but a TR can completely blow through 32,000 hp's before the silence wears off, that's no fun because I can't even block/auto attack. So I re-spec'd/enchanted him to dps so I could smack some squishies around. It completely lacks contest. Whoever gets first hit wins because once you are CC'd you can't fight back until you are dead.
I'm now leveling a GWF who just hit 35 a few mins ago and quite frankly, he has been the most interesting to play. I go through potions like crazy, it has been rough leveling him because he doesn't just face roll everything.
Unfortunately, I just can't bring myself to play the DC anymore. I should enjoy the game and be interested, and the only part of the DC that was enjoyable or interesting was 1-49. Maybe they will do something about the current state of the game, and things will improve. If not, that's fine too because I was just using it as a filler until ESO comes out.
You say that like it's a BAD thing.
As long as they don't nerf it until after I get a chance to see what it's like (my main is 48 now), that's fine. I just want a chance to see what playing a non-kiting, non-pot-chugging DC is like, even if only for one day.
On topic - I play plenty of dungeons/skirmishes via queue on my cleric. I like the "box of chocolates" aspect of it - you never know what kind of group you're going to get. I'll drink all my buff pots and use plenty of heal pots for the first round, but if it's obvious the group is not interested in using any strategy or dealing with adds at all for the boss fight, I just stop and let the wipe happen. (I played Clerics as my main class in DDO, and long ago learned to ignore any "bad healer" comments, and also learned how to tell rather quickly if a given party was going to make it or end up as soulstones in my backpack)
This happens whether there is one Cleric or two. These things are part of what makes Cleric fun! Also, unlike in traditional MMOs, you can and sometimes are expected to contribute in other ways aside from your primary role, like debuffing, knocking, rooting, kiting or damaging mobs. In double Cleric runs, for example, I am always 2/3 of the damage of the weakest DPS (often middle of the board in kills) because I make a point of weaving in damage in sync with the activities of other dps, especially after Singularities or Smoke Bombs. I do not achieve this with any special gear. In fact, I often run with a defense set even in double Cleric runs because larger pulls are more likely.
To me, given your wide ranging and contradictory statements, it sounds like you just do not understand action combat games, which are almost never tied to exactly one role, or you do not enjoy healing in the case of DC. The only reason I still play this game despite the huge number of fundamental issues from class synergy, to class bugs, to support systems (not talking about customer service), is because of the non-traditional MMORPG core gameplay. Thankfully, Cleric also happens to be one of the least bugged or broken classes, so I have not regretted making one for the endgame.
In short, NW's healing core gameplay is by far the most active and fluid action combat healing class in the whole genre (yes, I have played most action combat MMOs that exist today and as a healer wherever available), this is even after the disasterous rubberbanding patch from a week ago that causes dangerous deja-vu and prevents clutch movements now on all classes.