Completely disagree with the premise of the OP. Your job as a CW is to control adds AND do high amounts of damage. Even on a fight like Dracolich you need to be doing high amounts of dps to the boss between punting mobs or you are under-performing. The fact of the matter is that you don't really need more than 2750-3000 recovery to constantly CC large amountf of adds properly, and other than that you should be trying to maximize DPS.
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honoraryorangeMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I play both CW and TR. The OP is totally correct in his main point that while CW can, and DO dish DPS, what they do put out compared to a TR is a joke. ESPECIALLY like he says, and makes a point of many times, on the boss. Control the ADDS, and PROTECT your Cleric for the love of god, is the jist what i picked up reading his, lets call it unique, post.
Its is pointed out early on, his group composition is not stacking ANY classes. Makes a pretty big difference folks, you can facerollwtfbbq any encounter in this game stacking DC's, TR or CW in any combo. It trivializes any content and everyone at this points knows it.
At no point does the OP say don't do any damage!! Damage is a by-product of your crowd control and hell yes you should be doing lots of it. Just don't try and MEASURE your silly little epeen up against the TR as it is pointless. Control the **** out of the mobs, and do lots of damage.
Its basically the KNOW YOUR ROLE guide to playing a CW.
Regardless of how he says it, or verbiage he puts in place to make his point, the man does have a point. I have done a lot of dungeons with CW named Blackbard on the Mindflayer server that plays EXACTLY like this man talks about. I have always loved grouping with him EXACTLY because he played like this and made my job as the TR a cake walk. Not to mention clerics wanna blow this guy after the run cause their life just got about 100 times easier.
After leveling up my CW recently, i had run so many instances with blackbard, that i started playing just like this cause i knew from watching him do his thing over and over again how bad *** it was. Its all situational, i don't go ape**** with knock back on trash unless i can boot it over a edge, cause its annoying as hell for melee to deal with, and it in my mind, actually slows killing things. I don't always use entangling force in my mastery. Chill strike has its place there as well, as does RoE. I NEVER run without Steal Time.
That being said its not like there is a huge wealth of OPTIONS ability wise in this game. So lets not all pretend there is much in the way of doing things original. Like the OP said, all the guides are good for what they have to say, they all have Value. Anyone that does not take a look, providing they didnt arrive at these conclusion themselves; at all the guides doesn't know their stuff.
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schulz87Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 6Arc User
I play both CW and TR. The OP is totally correct in his main point that while CW can, and DO dish DPS, what they do put out compared to a TR is a joke. ESPECIALLY like he says, and makes a point of many times, on the boss. Control the ADDS, and PROTECT your Cleric for the love of god, is the jist what i picked up reading his, lets call it unique, post.
Its is pointed out early on, his group composition is not stacking ANY classes. Makes a pretty big difference folks, you can facerollwtfbbq any encounter in this game stacking DC's, TR or CW in any combo. It trivializes any content and everyone at this points knows it.
At no point does the OP say don't do any damage!! Damage is a by-product of your crowd control and hell yes you should be doing lots of it. Just don't try and MEASURE your silly little epeen up against the TR as it is pointless. Control the **** out of the mobs, and do lots of damage.
Its basically the KNOW YOUR ROLE guide to playing a CW.
Regardless of how he says it, or verbiage he puts in place to make his point, the man does have a point. I have done a lot of dungeons with CW named Blackbard on the Mindflayer server that plays EXACTLY like this man talks about. I have always loved grouping with him EXACTLY because he played like this and made my job as the TR a cake walk. Not to mention clerics wanna blow this guy after the run cause their life just got about 100 times easier.
After leveling up my CW recently, i had run so many instances with blackbard, that i started playing just like this cause i knew from watching him do his thing over and over again how bad *** it was. Its all situational, i don't go ape**** with knock back on trash unless i can boot it over a edge, cause its annoying as hell for melee to deal with, and it in my mind, actually slows killing things. I don't always use entangling force in my mastery. Chill strike has its place there as well, as does RoE. I NEVER run without Steal Time.
That being said its not like there is a huge wealth of OPTIONS ability wise in this game. So lets not all pretend there is much in the way of doing things original. Like the OP said, all the guides are good for what they have to say, they all have Value. Anyone that does not take a look, providing they didnt arrive at these conclusion themselves; at all the guides doesn't know their stuff.
I so agree with this, stop bashing the OP, thats why we're named control wizard, we do control and at the same time dish out some DPS, but if you were to choose between DPS and control, of course our job is to control the battlefield and protect the cleric, what happens when the scourge warlock comes out? probably we get out DPS there, but still this game unlike other MMORPG that dont require wizard on a party, control wizards got its place on a party.
...
......
That being said its not like there is a huge wealth of OPTIONS ability wise in this game. So lets not all pretend there is much in the way of doing things original. Like the OP said, all the guides are good for what they have to say, they all have Value. Anyone that does not take a look, providing they didnt arrive at these conclusion themselves; at all the guides doesn't know their stuff.
So which is it? The OP makes a point that hardly any T2 CW follows? Or that he wrote a wall explaining a role that any logical CW arrives at regardless because of the content? I mean how are tons of T2s being cleared every Hour, if CWs weren't performing their roles, at least adequately.
This "guide" is more like something a new player to Neverwinter should read to see if they would like to roll a CW. However, whether intentional or not, the OP makes it seem like it is directed towards the average CW in a criticizing and condescending way.
What's with some people that call for CW to "protect" the cleric? What content are you guys running and more importantly what kind of clerics are you running with that need "protecting"? A CW's place is always inside the Astral Shield. By default, everything that we do protects not only the Cleric but the entire party. Both our Control along with our DPS contributes not only to the success of a run, but also to the speed in which the run can be finished. That means it's control AND AoE dps. And until they fix GWFs, we still trump them in AoE. You show me a run where the CW tries to Knock adds off the ledges at every opportunity, and I will show you bugged mobs, mobs that respawn, mobs that come back dragging a trail of adds, TRs flying over the edge along with the adds, and a whole slew of other issues. There are definitely situations where Knocking things off the ledges is efficient and poses no risk, but no way can it completely replace the need to often just AoE the adds.
Well not formerly a guide but a good assorted guidelines and specific best utility behavior of skill & strategies to fulfill the role is needed from a CW. Can be applied / used along with any of the existing guides, I appreciate the information and the effort a lot.
Personally I dont see so much bashing to other guiders / players playstyle, but more of a subjective vision of the right route to juice more the class that I personally find useful. Is more his way of expresse things and his personality, he expresses more in a nonformal / head-on way and let his ideas come out just like that, but beside this I dont see an inherent beligerance against determined type of players , other guiders around etc.
- Entangling Force (be with you) in mastery spell. AP Gain : anywhere between 11% to full AP bar ! Each mob that get caught up in the AOE pull up effect of your EF in mastery slot adds roughly 9%. So 10 Mobs + the initial targeted one will do the trick from 0% to 100% AP bar
- Shield. Each target you hit with your shield explosion adds 6-7% of AP. So when you hit 15 mobs, you fill your ap bar from 0 to full. Note that you need to use EF before (or slow time, but i advise keeping it for after !), so your stacks of arcane mastery is at its max, and CD is reduced a lot !
- For the other encounters, it will depend on your gear. I advise (based on the gear for perma black hole) icy terrain or RoE.
- Slow time. It is not so much for the AP gain, but it is a neat CC, and if you combine it with the proper gear, it will make the CD of all previously mentioned encounter go down to 0 and be ready to use again ! Perfect for a "rinse and repeat" combo.
These 4 encounters are classified as CONTROL spells by the game. It is what we need to work in synergy with our gear !
Well this is the "core" around the rest of play guidelines presented here envolves from , can you back it up with some ability / stat recommended values, or by the absence of them we assume that just by using that secuence of powers you can achieve the "perma (or near to) black-hole" no matter what stats you have stacked (ie how much recovery) or abilities distribution ... any other specific or quantifiable information around your guide you would think is of utility to know?
- For the other encounters, it will depend on your gear. I advise (based on the gear for perma black hole) icy terrain or RoE. - Slow time. It is not so much for the AP gain, but it is a neat CC, and if you combine it with the proper gear, it will make the CD of all previously mentioned encounter go down to 0 and be ready to use again ! Perfect for a "rinse and repeat" combo.
Interesting. What gear is that?
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shgthMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 28Arc User
Another point i read in comments is that you still top charts in dps in dungeons.
This just proves you have never played end game content extensively or with players of equivalent gear and enchantments.
If you go into a dungeon with a rogue as well geared as you, and who knows its character and skills, there is no way you can out-dps him.
This just proves you have never played end game content extensively or with players of equivalent gear and enchantments. If you go into a dungeon with a rogue as well geared as you, who knows his/hers character and skills, there are multiple ways you can out DPS him, especially in AoE situations.
But if you truly are a good CW, you are not using Dps encounters in boss fights.
Just stop.
Anyway boys & girls, let the "we are just ment to control" -sheep do their permastunning, let us rest provide sufficient crowd control and break the damage meter while at it.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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ptreese84Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
Thanks for your perspective. Look forward to you finishing.
Thank you for this guide. I will check it often. I really felt the rest of the builds people have discussed openly were too focused on damage, pvp or avoiding the ''control" aspect of the class.
Sister Vanity knows if you've been naughty or nice...and heals accordingly.
Blablabla, tbh. As many many others have pointed out, a skilled CW won't need "all that jazz" to pour everything on purely control aspects. I mostly do:
Ray + Mastery Chill = the chill hits the rayed mob, and I think it causes the increased dmg on ALL hit (use ctrl to lock both spells on same target in a bunch of mobs)
After masteried Chill, with renegade feats and +dmg after applying chill feat, have a nice Steal Time (great +% bonuses from many feats on it at this point)
And the usual singularity + shield spam (suck n punt on a wall to not annoy melee, or pre-punt so the singularity pulls everyone back in again right after)
Nowadays with gladiator weapon 4/4 weaver and Ioun stone, on "average" people I sometimes do 50% or even more dmg than the rest (don't ask, yesternights CN run was like that, and no I'm not talking of punting mobs to death dmg). Great tricksters however can keep up, poor ones won't. Heck, I tanked the last 15% or so of the dracolich as the trickster died, even going to handle adds every now and then while doing it.
If you are low geared or not (yet) skilled, sure you will most likely have to (edit: or rather BENEFIT FROM) use every control crutch there is. If you are geared n skilled, push the dmg ... and pushing the DPS is where the skilled ones end up, NOT "pushing control" (as control is either enough or not enough, whereas DPS can always be higher to make fights shorter).
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losse1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
I tried your build today on a couple t2 pirate runs and liked it. Going to change some of my feats and give it another test run. Thanks for the post.
What feats are people using with a build like this.
"The sum of the whole is this: walk and be happy; walk and be healthy. The best way to lengthen out our days is to walk steadily and with a purpose." -Charles Dickens
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losse1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
I'm struggling to pick feats for this type of build since a lot of them are broke and don't work with arcane missile.
"The sum of the whole is this: walk and be happy; walk and be healthy. The best way to lengthen out our days is to walk steadily and with a purpose." -Charles Dickens
Comments
Its is pointed out early on, his group composition is not stacking ANY classes. Makes a pretty big difference folks, you can facerollwtfbbq any encounter in this game stacking DC's, TR or CW in any combo. It trivializes any content and everyone at this points knows it.
At no point does the OP say don't do any damage!! Damage is a by-product of your crowd control and hell yes you should be doing lots of it. Just don't try and MEASURE your silly little epeen up against the TR as it is pointless. Control the **** out of the mobs, and do lots of damage.
Its basically the KNOW YOUR ROLE guide to playing a CW.
Regardless of how he says it, or verbiage he puts in place to make his point, the man does have a point. I have done a lot of dungeons with CW named Blackbard on the Mindflayer server that plays EXACTLY like this man talks about. I have always loved grouping with him EXACTLY because he played like this and made my job as the TR a cake walk. Not to mention clerics wanna blow this guy after the run cause their life just got about 100 times easier.
After leveling up my CW recently, i had run so many instances with blackbard, that i started playing just like this cause i knew from watching him do his thing over and over again how bad *** it was. Its all situational, i don't go ape**** with knock back on trash unless i can boot it over a edge, cause its annoying as hell for melee to deal with, and it in my mind, actually slows killing things. I don't always use entangling force in my mastery. Chill strike has its place there as well, as does RoE. I NEVER run without Steal Time.
That being said its not like there is a huge wealth of OPTIONS ability wise in this game. So lets not all pretend there is much in the way of doing things original. Like the OP said, all the guides are good for what they have to say, they all have Value. Anyone that does not take a look, providing they didnt arrive at these conclusion themselves; at all the guides doesn't know their stuff.
I so agree with this, stop bashing the OP, thats why we're named control wizard, we do control and at the same time dish out some DPS, but if you were to choose between DPS and control, of course our job is to control the battlefield and protect the cleric, what happens when the scourge warlock comes out? probably we get out DPS there, but still this game unlike other MMORPG that dont require wizard on a party, control wizards got its place on a party.
So which is it? The OP makes a point that hardly any T2 CW follows? Or that he wrote a wall explaining a role that any logical CW arrives at regardless because of the content? I mean how are tons of T2s being cleared every Hour, if CWs weren't performing their roles, at least adequately.
This "guide" is more like something a new player to Neverwinter should read to see if they would like to roll a CW. However, whether intentional or not, the OP makes it seem like it is directed towards the average CW in a criticizing and condescending way.
What's with some people that call for CW to "protect" the cleric? What content are you guys running and more importantly what kind of clerics are you running with that need "protecting"? A CW's place is always inside the Astral Shield. By default, everything that we do protects not only the Cleric but the entire party. Both our Control along with our DPS contributes not only to the success of a run, but also to the speed in which the run can be finished. That means it's control AND AoE dps. And until they fix GWFs, we still trump them in AoE. You show me a run where the CW tries to Knock adds off the ledges at every opportunity, and I will show you bugged mobs, mobs that respawn, mobs that come back dragging a trail of adds, TRs flying over the edge along with the adds, and a whole slew of other issues. There are definitely situations where Knocking things off the ledges is efficient and poses no risk, but no way can it completely replace the need to often just AoE the adds.
Personally I dont see so much bashing to other guiders / players playstyle, but more of a subjective vision of the right route to juice more the class that I personally find useful. Is more his way of expresse things and his personality, he expresses more in a nonformal / head-on way and let his ideas come out just like that, but beside this I dont see an inherent beligerance against determined type of players , other guiders around etc.
Well this is the "core" around the rest of play guidelines presented here envolves from , can you back it up with some ability / stat recommended values, or by the absence of them we assume that just by using that secuence of powers you can achieve the "perma (or near to) black-hole" no matter what stats you have stacked (ie how much recovery) or abilities distribution ... any other specific or quantifiable information around your guide you would think is of utility to know?
Thanks you, regards
Interesting. What gear is that?
Previous guilds: Double Deviants, Orum, Sandwitches, Dragon Order of Arcanix and many many more.
Hope I find some old friends!
Wrong.
If the group doesn't require constant Arcane Singularities, why should I constantly use abilities for just that, when I can just kill the boss faster.
This just proves you have never played end game content extensively or with players of equivalent gear and enchantments. If you go into a dungeon with a rogue as well geared as you, who knows his/hers character and skills, there are multiple ways you can out DPS him, especially in AoE situations.
Just stop.
Anyway boys & girls, let the "we are just ment to control" -sheep do their permastunning, let us rest provide sufficient crowd control and break the damage meter while at it.
Ray + Mastery Chill = the chill hits the rayed mob, and I think it causes the increased dmg on ALL hit (use ctrl to lock both spells on same target in a bunch of mobs)
After masteried Chill, with renegade feats and +dmg after applying chill feat, have a nice Steal Time (great +% bonuses from many feats on it at this point)
And the usual singularity + shield spam (suck n punt on a wall to not annoy melee, or pre-punt so the singularity pulls everyone back in again right after)
Nowadays with gladiator weapon 4/4 weaver and Ioun stone, on "average" people I sometimes do 50% or even more dmg than the rest (don't ask, yesternights CN run was like that, and no I'm not talking of punting mobs to death dmg). Great tricksters however can keep up, poor ones won't. Heck, I tanked the last 15% or so of the dracolich as the trickster died, even going to handle adds every now and then while doing it.
If you are low geared or not (yet) skilled, sure you will most likely have to (edit: or rather BENEFIT FROM) use every control crutch there is. If you are geared n skilled, push the dmg ... and pushing the DPS is where the skilled ones end up, NOT "pushing control" (as control is either enough or not enough, whereas DPS can always be higher to make fights shorter).
What feats are people using with a build like this.
How bout something like this? http://reyva.com/resources/neverwinter-powers-feat-simulator.9/#crv8kx9wPgrrUBqqQpW260FipNt25O7FGbbYrlSgo6Pu3oAFxyq84Ld6AThIGJpSzGiHjx40K
Then click the FEATS tab.