It's funny, as I see these kinds of threads in every MMO forum. Hell, I was a mod on one forum that had these posts for 5 years. Every time something new came out, it was the end, every time new content was released, it was the end, every time a new exploit was discovered, it was the end. There's nothing new here. Same storm, different day. I too try out new games all the time, and stick with some, and leave others. I stick with some for a few months, others for a few years.
One thing I've learned over the last 10 years or so? Ignore the game forums, at least in the play or don't play decision context. Why? A simple read through on the first 10 pages here will demonstrate that perfectly. Any positive feedback on the game will be shouted down, by the same players, to prevent it from being taken seriously. Terms like "white knight" or "fanboy/fanboi" will be thrown around in an effort to discredit someone that may actually enjoy the game. The funny part is, anyone that's been to more than 1 game's forum will have seen this exact pattern, but those that feel disenfranchised enough by the game, for whatever reason, will persist. There's a reason that gaming forums only have about 10% of their base on the forums; a lot of people don't want the drama, so they don't come to the forums. This is where the drama lives.
TL;DR: New games have this pattern, no matter how good or bad they are; and no matter how well/poorly handled they are. Established games have this same pattern, to greater or lesser degrees, around the release of the new FotM games. Let it get all the way out of the gate before you start driving nails in it's coffin.
Reading comprehension is essential in a medium that requires reading for communication.
TL;DR: New games have this pattern, no matter how good or bad they are; and no matter how well/poorly handled they are. Established games have this same pattern, to greater or lesser degrees, around the release of the new FotM games. Let it get all the way out of the gate before you start driving nails in it's coffin.
LOL there are counterexamples a plenty. I only seem to see the annoyed players massive damage control pattern in cryptic games.
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jn2002dk1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
It's funny, as I see these kinds of threads in every MMO forum. Hell, I was a mod on one forum that had these posts for 5 years. Every time something new came out, it was the end, every time new content was released, it was the end, every time a new exploit was discovered, it was the end. There's nothing new here. Same storm, different day. I too try out new games all the time, and stick with some, and leave others. I stick with some for a few months, others for a few years.
One thing I've learned over the last 10 years or so? Ignore the game forums, at least in the play or don't play decision context. Why? A simple read through on the first 10 pages here will demonstrate that perfectly. Any positive feedback on the game will be shouted down, by the same players, to prevent it from being taken seriously. Terms like "white knight" or "fanboy/fanboi" will be thrown around in an effort to discredit someone that may actually enjoy the game. The funny part is, anyone that's been to more than 1 game's forum will have seen this exact pattern, but those that feel disenfranchised enough by the game, for whatever reason, will persist. There's a reason that gaming forums only have about 10% of their base on the forums; a lot of people don't want the drama, so they don't come to the forums. This is where the drama lives.
TL;DR: New games have this pattern, no matter how good or bad they are; and no matter how well/poorly handled they are. Established games have this same pattern, to greater or lesser degrees, around the release of the new FotM games. Let it get all the way out of the gate before you start driving nails in it's coffin.
Very true
It's the locust of the gaming world, self entitled whiny brats who swarms to the next new thing and when it fails to live up to their extreme expectations they rage
I do when the data is unreliable like xfire or anecdotal evidence
The only people with really hard data aren't going to be talking. The only data players will ever be able to get will come from indirect sources. Forum activity, spot samples of zone population, if perfect world breaks out game performance their financial reports.
I have always found it a plus to have that kind of information. It certainly helps my decision process concerning staying with games that may or may not be getting desperately needed fixes and upgrades.
It's the locust of the gaming world, self entitled whiny brats who swarms to the next new thing and when it fails to live up to their extreme expectations they rage
Any mmo vet recognize this pattern
ROFL you think the bugs/problems in this game shattered extreme expectations ?
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jn2002dk1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
The only people with really hard data aren't going to be talking. The only data players will ever be able to get will come from indirect sources. Forum activity, spot samples of zone population, if perfect world breaks out game performance their financial reports.
I have always found it a plus to have that kind of information. It certainly helps my decision process concerning staying with games that may or may not be getting desperately needed fixes and upgrades.
Then your decision is based on invalid data. That might be ok for you but as a basis for debating the state of the game it's useless
One guy stating half his guild has left is never going to be statistically valid no matter how much some people would like it to be
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jn2002dk1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
for every silly claim of fanboy and white knight, there's a "brats" and "self entitled" accusation.
We might get somewhere if folks would actually stop stating opinion as fact, and attacking each other because of subjective opinion.
I find the lack of respect for other peoples opinions here, sadly lacking.
for every silly claim of fanboy and white knight, there's a "brats" and "self entitled" accusation.
We might get somewhere if folks would actually stop stating opinion as fact, and attacking each other because of subjective opinion.
I find the lack of respect for other peoples opinions here, sadly lacking.
True but eventually people who'd like to use the forums to discuss the actual gameplay grow tired of the ragers invading every single thread and derailing it
I've left plenty of mmos and i've never, ever, felt the need to write angry posts about it on a forum. When people rage like that i they always strike me as whiny brats because i can't imagine any worthwhile reason to waste your time posting on the forum of a game you hate
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jn2002dk1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
True but eventually people who'd like to use the forums to discuss the actual gameplay grow tired of the ragers invading every single thread and derailing it
I've left plenty of mmos and i've never, ever, felt the need to write angry posts about it on a forum. When people rage like that i they always strike me as whiny brats because i can't imagine any worthwhile reason to waste your time posting on the forum of a game you hate
Well, I can only speak for myself, and honestly I do try to at least convey that as much as possible, there's no reason for me to disagree with your point about one persons anecdotal evidence being not reliable because ultimately it's not. You are completely right.
But then again you go on to disagree with mech, only to end up arguing a straw man and missing his point, that there is a lack of transparency from the developers which leaves us with no ALTERNATIVE but to look at things like x-fire for answers or anecdotal and subjective evidence.
The arguments of posting on a forum of a game you hate is an odd one, but again speaking for myself I "DON'T" hate the game, I hate the monetization, I hate the lack of transparency, I hate some of he decisions they've made about certain aspects of the game in terms of grouping and whatnot. But to say I "hate" the entire game, is an assumption
Negative opinion threads, will exist. No matter what you do someone will have issues with the design choices or player behavior, I could be a smart alec and use the asinine line of response that most folks try to tout as a proper answer by saying:
"If you don't like differing opinions, don't read the forums, lolololol!!!!!!11!!one"
same way as folks state:
"if you don't like it don't play the game!!!!!!!!!!11!!!eleventy"
But i'm not going to insult you like that. Instead I'd simply ask that you not further muddy the waters, by claiming that the only data we can go after, is irrelevant while ignoring the fact we're not being supplied with the proper data by the official sources.
Learn to see the context
I was responding to someone else who asked if a poster resented people who collected data...
Next time you want to be a smart *** make sure you've understood the post you're responding to in context
Anyone ever tell you that you have aggression issues?
The point he was making, was that there's a lack of official data sources on these things. If you had read his post you'd have noted this, yet you instead argued against a straw man.
Here, I'll clarify further:
mechjockey:
The only people with really hard data aren't going to be talking. The only data players will ever be able to get will come from indirect sources. Forum activity, spot samples of zone population, if perfect world breaks out game performance their financial reports.
I have always found it a plus to have that kind of information. It certainly helps my decision process concerning staying with games that may or may not be getting desperately needed fixes and upgrades.
Translation: The reason why people are forced to use anecdotal evidence, and third party sources which may be argued as unreliable, is because we're not getting that data from Cryptic/PWE.
There is a lack of transparency.
jn2000dk1:
Then your decision is based on invalid data. That might be ok for you but as a basis for debating the state of the game it's useless
One guy stating half his guild has left is never going to be statistically valid no matter how much some people would like it to be
Translation: Third party sources are not official. Can't debate this without official data. Anecdotal evidence is easily dismissed.
^ you didn't actually respond to him at all, so why the quote?
Did i say that? less ROFL and LOLs and more thinking mkay?
Sorry just can't help it
It's the locust of the gaming world, self entitled whiny brats who swarms to the next new thing and when it fails to live up to their extreme expectations they rage
When someone starts with name calling then accuses people of not thinking.
It's funny, as I see these kinds of threads in every MMO forum. Hell, I was a mod on one forum that had these posts for 5 years. Every time something new came out, it was the end, every time new content was released, it was the end, every time a new exploit was discovered, it was the end. There's nothing new here. Same storm, different day. I too try out new games all the time, and stick with some, and leave others. I stick with some for a few months, others for a few years.
One thing I've learned over the last 10 years or so? Ignore the game forums, at least in the play or don't play decision context. Why? A simple read through on the first 10 pages here will demonstrate that perfectly. Any positive feedback on the game will be shouted down, by the same players, to prevent it from being taken seriously. Terms like "white knight" or "fanboy/fanboi" will be thrown around in an effort to discredit someone that may actually enjoy the game. The funny part is, anyone that's been to more than 1 game's forum will have seen this exact pattern, but those that feel disenfranchised enough by the game, for whatever reason, will persist. There's a reason that gaming forums only have about 10% of their base on the forums; a lot of people don't want the drama, so they don't come to the forums. This is where the drama lives.
TL;DR: New games have this pattern, no matter how good or bad they are; and no matter how well/poorly handled they are. Established games have this same pattern, to greater or lesser degrees, around the release of the new FotM games. Let it get all the way out of the gate before you start driving nails in it's coffin.
I was just thinking the same thing. For those of us who have been in mmo's, back when m.u.d.s were king, we've seen a ton of games come and go. We had less negativity and more problem solving. A very small percentage of the players were usually the ones who would post anything on the forums. Most things were taken care of ingame and through constant tickets. When there were threads posted that showed legit gaming concerns, they were usually taken seriously and the admins would quickly get the devs involved. We will always have the "sky is falling" threads and the folks who supposedly quit but are here, a week later still posting on the forums. I remember folks saying that wow wasn't going to make it when it first came out. That was so glitchy for the longest that some of the early subscribers built up there toon's accounts with tons of coin that they kept. People then, said the game wouldn't out live the EQ series. I remember how SOE screwed a great SWG game. Folks quit by the dozens and the game was suppose to die out in a few months. How many years did it last after the first combat change then when the nge hit? I can list more games that were doomed to fail, according to the forum threads, that actually survived for quite a few years.
Of course, on the flip-side, there were those flash in the pans that fizzled out after their exciting start. They usually didn't have great end-game content. They let the glitchers and farmers take control of the game. They would usually keep their community in the dark until the hour of a game patch. But they also usually didn't have a big time financial cushion for the months they may have dipped in the red.
Folks hate to hear that we are in an "open beta" but that is what it is. The only difference here, when compared to past games, is that there will be no character wipe (as of today), and we can actually spend a ton of cash for ingame flash and crafting speed now. Not all of the content is even out yet and I do hope, they have even more that they haven't shared with the community. As someone who is financially comfortable in the real world, I chose to invest a bit of cash and time, into this game due to my love of R.A. Salvatore's Drizzt series. That being said, PW seriously needs to listen to what their gaming community wants, and implement the changes as soon as they can. Communicating with more posts on what they are doing and what is coming up, instead of trying to give us pleasant surprises, will help calm most folks down. I've seen other devs do this through their admins and it usually helps a ton.
We've all seen the threads on what we would like fixed, implemented, etc. I do hope PW is reading these thoroughly. Please listen to your gaming community. A very easy start would be to fix the warrior classes while not nerfing other classes (I play a cleric btw) and fix the Need or Greed options when folks group up. Not sure how to go about it? Read some of the more constructive threads posted by players that actually care.
I don't think that the sky is falling, yet, but we are at one of the usual crossroads that every mmorpg comes to in the early part of their history.
---sorry for ranting but I just now got my first cup of coffee
LOL there are counterexamples a plenty. I only seem to see the annoyed players massive damage control pattern in cryptic games.
What in my post gave you the idea I was trying to do "damage control", or is this just some talking point you have to "shout down" the nay sayers? My comment was directed at the general atmosphere on gaming forums in general, and is, frankly, not inconsistent at all. However, if you know a game that has a forum that isn't, share a link? I'd be interested in looking, and may even look at the game. I am as much a forum junky as a game junky. So do tell; what counter examples are you referring to?
Reading comprehension is essential in a medium that requires reading for communication.
*snip*
I don't think that the sky is falling, yet, but we are at one of the usual crossroads that every mmorpg comes to in the early part of their history.
---sorry for ranting but I just now got my first cup of coffee
Which comes back to the TL;DR part of my post: Let it get out of the gate before putting the final nails in it's coffin. Reading game forums should always be done with a grain of salt. So far, none of the extreme examples of negativity here have come to pass. The economy isn't totally trashed, unless you're a loot ninja looking to get rich quick at the expense of your groups. Bots are an issue, but they are an issue in most of the games I've played over the years, and frankly, I've seen bots in Closed Betas before, so this is nothing new, or even remotely surprising. Report them, and go on. It's far too early to tell if this is going to be a flop, moderately successful, or hugely successful. It just depends on which way the devs go, and while more communication would be nice, we get far more communication here than in some other games I've played for far longer than this has been out.
Reading comprehension is essential in a medium that requires reading for communication.
I haven't logged in about a week before Caturday. I got on to check out the weird stone thing on caturday, to see what it did. Then I haven't been on since. For me (Guardian and GWF player) I wanted to wait for a major patch. Then I started playing Rift since you can get that free. I really like that game now, more than I liked GF and GWF solo play (there's another way to play those classes?).
Here's a strange thought.. maybe people who are quitting are doing so because it was not what they expected it to be and rather walk away and stating they didn't like it, would rather bash the game down as if they could not be wrong about their initial opinion of the game.
But yeah, I predict the same extreme posting pattern for all games to come, including the next-uber-hyped ESO. Same old HAMSTER, new generation.
Here's a strange thought.. maybe people who are quitting are doing so because it was not what they expected it to be and rather walk away and stating they didn't like it, would rather bash the game down as if they could not be wrong about their initial opinion of the game.
But yeah, I predict the same extreme posting pattern for all games to come, including the next-uber-hyped ESO. Same old HAMSTER, new generation.
I think you are missing something Over-hyping = Upset Players => Angry Post Patterns.
The problem is with free to play games is ,
1. Its over-hype to the extreme.
2. Get people to buy the big super duper packs.
3. Let them get into the game
4. Pull the rug out from under them.
5. Profit from the remainder of the players that have more dollars than sense.
Most of my guild has just stopped logging on. I myself only log on to pray and check auctions. Dungeon delves aren't worth it until Cryptic decides to fix classes and patch dungeons. Once they come out with a balance patch, I'll pick it up again a bit more seriously.
But hey, until then, we get reinstallments of companions and stuff from the Zen store! Along with those super exciting GATEWAY updates! *confetti*
A "balance patch" really? Of all the things they need what makes you think they need a balance patch? Because it's harder as a GWF to level to 60 than other classes? You don't do as much damage as another class? Sorry this is the sort of stuff that always annoys me in games.... classes should be different have different roles etc... don't say balance patch... cry about content that doesn't make your class stand out or mechanics that need to be added to your class that others don't have that adds value to having it in a group....
Crying about classes being unbalanced just creates vanilla classes.... what do you want to be able to detect traps and do spot heals and maybe a couple of nukes for your GWF? I mean seriously... If you are talking about pvp I can understand being concerned about some sort of balancing but otherwise D&D ought to be about what does your class bring to the table that other classes don't... and in my opinion they all do that. Now you may not like they way they do it because you want your GWF to be a super nuking sword wielding ninja healer armored rush bomber.... but that's your problem.... play a different class.
A "balance patch" really? Of all the things they need what makes you think they need a balance patch? Because it's harder as a GWF to level to 60 than other classes? You don't do as much damage as another class? Sorry this is the sort of stuff that always annoys me in games.... classes should be different have different roles etc... don't say balance patch... cry about content that doesn't make your class stand out or mechanics that need to be added to your class that others don't have that adds value to having it in a group....
Crying about classes being unbalanced just creates vanilla classes.... what do you want to be able to detect traps and do spot heals and maybe a couple of nukes for your GWF? I mean seriously... If you are talking about pvp I can understand being concerned about some sort of balancing but otherwise D&D ought to be about what does your class bring to the table that other classes don't... and in my opinion they all do that. Now you may not like they way they do it because you want your GWF to be a super nuking sword wielding ninja healer armored rush bomber.... but that's your problem.... play a different class.
Balance does not equate to homogenization. That's a straw man argument.
It's immensely humorous to me that the current plight of warriors very much represents the distinction between 3rd and 4th edition D&D.
3e fighters garbage. Casters gods. Rogues ok, not the best.
4e fighters gods. casters gods. rogues gods. Everyone's fun to play.
--Community: FREAKS THE ****** OUT! Demands changes. Game too wow-y. MMO-trash. Herp derp. QQ.
So it's funny to me that the neverwinter mmo abides by the backlash against 4e by making fighters utter garbage again, whether intentional or unintentional.
I think you are missing something Over-hyping = Upset Players => Angry Post Patterns.
The problem is with free to play games is ,
1. Its over-hype to the extreme.
2. Get people to buy the big super duper packs.
3. Let them get into the game
4. Pull the rug out from under them.
5. Profit from the remainder of the players that have more dollars than sense.
Meh... this game may not be perfect missing a lot imo even for being new... maybe it was just me hoping for a lot more though. What really bothers me is the zen shop... they swore up and down this game would not be play to win... well I guess they didn't lie... it's just so uncomfortable to play unless you do spend absurd amounts of money it's sort of like a slap in the face instead of enjoyable. $35 for a mount? $10 for a bag? $35 for a companion? These people smoking crack? I want to be able to solo mainly just because I don't have much time to play and at times after work I don't want to talk with people so yeah I need a companion...yeah I can get one...only it can't be leveled past a baby ****? What's up with that? Buy zen! This is one of the reasons I would/will quit playing without a doubt.... and I actually like the game even though I have complaints about lack of truly interesting mechanics, a boxed in world, and a craptastic foundry system. You know what was really annoying... the 15% bonus on "certain" game cards... wtf was up with that? How about double points once a month.... and drop the prices on everything by 50% permanently...I mean seriously how frickin greedy can you get.
I do when the data is unreliable like xfire or anecdotal evidence
The things is , the xfire data is not "unreliable", the problem is with its population selection. There is no guarantee that the xfire population overlap greatly the general NW playing population. But at the moment it is the only evidence, and match to boot the OP's anecdote. In fact I remember reading a comment similar to yours about Kotor population, while at the same time the dev were clamoring they got 750K or whatever. In the end we know how it ended.
I joined a big guild with over 300+ members... first week of playing there's like 150 people online and a dozen lvl 60s. Second week of playing there's half that online. Third week of playing there's maybe 20-30 people online at most. Now (4th week) we have a dozen people online at best...
I invited some friends to play with me... once they got to 60 .. they don't even login anymore.
Meh... this game may not be perfect missing a lot imo even for being new... maybe it was just me hoping for a lot more though. What really bothers me is the zen shop... they swore up and down this game would not be play to win... well I guess they didn't lie... it's just so uncomfortable to play unless you do spend absurd amounts of money it's sort of like a slap in the face instead of enjoyable. $35 for a mount? $10 for a bag? $35 for a companion? These people smoking crack? I want to be able to solo mainly just because I don't have much time to play and at times after work I don't want to talk with people so yeah I need a companion...yeah I can get one...only it can't be leveled past a baby ****? What's up with that? Buy zen! This is one of the reasons I would/will quit playing without a doubt.... and I actually like the game even though I have complaints about lack of truly interesting mechanics, a boxed in world, and a craptastic foundry system. You know what was really annoying... the 15% bonus on "certain" game cards... wtf was up with that? How about double points once a month.... and drop the prices on everything by 50% permanently...I mean seriously how frickin greedy can you get.
Mate I am not a fan boy, but believe me this game is all but a P2W, i spent 40 euro in the first few day of the open beta because I usually buy new MMO that grab my attention when they come out.
And since this one was free I decided to trow in the usual 40 euro anyway.
I haven't spent a dime until that day, it's not needed at all...
Mount= I don't care, you only need it in pvp, rest of the gameplay at 60 is instanced
Bags= you need them, but 1000 zen is 320000 AD atm, pretty much half of the price of a T2 piece you would get from DD
companion= the best companion for your first char is the white cleric...free, at 60 you can buy a cat for 980k ad (less than a t2 rogue helm atm) or a stone for 2k zen (640k ad)
coalescent wards= if you ever need them, they cost 1000 zen but in AH 120k each is overpriced... you can get them by praying...
let's not forget this game is not competitive at all, you can 3 shot people in pvp, no matter if you have a perfect vorpal and rank 10 rune, 3 shot will be 2.5, not much of a difference.
as for pve i have a 11k tr with a cat, 4 piece of mixed T2 gear, rank 5 rune everywhere and no enchant on mainhand....I am doing CN daily with no issue.....
Comments
You resent people finding data ?
One thing I've learned over the last 10 years or so? Ignore the game forums, at least in the play or don't play decision context. Why? A simple read through on the first 10 pages here will demonstrate that perfectly. Any positive feedback on the game will be shouted down, by the same players, to prevent it from being taken seriously. Terms like "white knight" or "fanboy/fanboi" will be thrown around in an effort to discredit someone that may actually enjoy the game. The funny part is, anyone that's been to more than 1 game's forum will have seen this exact pattern, but those that feel disenfranchised enough by the game, for whatever reason, will persist. There's a reason that gaming forums only have about 10% of their base on the forums; a lot of people don't want the drama, so they don't come to the forums. This is where the drama lives.
TL;DR: New games have this pattern, no matter how good or bad they are; and no matter how well/poorly handled they are. Established games have this same pattern, to greater or lesser degrees, around the release of the new FotM games. Let it get all the way out of the gate before you start driving nails in it's coffin.
LOL there are counterexamples a plenty. I only seem to see the annoyed players massive damage control pattern in cryptic games.
It's the locust of the gaming world, self entitled whiny brats who swarms to the next new thing and when it fails to live up to their extreme expectations they rage
Any mmo vet recognize this pattern
The only people with really hard data aren't going to be talking. The only data players will ever be able to get will come from indirect sources. Forum activity, spot samples of zone population, if perfect world breaks out game performance their financial reports.
I have always found it a plus to have that kind of information. It certainly helps my decision process concerning staying with games that may or may not be getting desperately needed fixes and upgrades.
ROFL you think the bugs/problems in this game shattered extreme expectations ?
One guy stating half his guild has left is never going to be statistically valid no matter how much some people would like it to be
for every silly claim of fanboy and white knight, there's a "brats" and "self entitled" accusation.
We might get somewhere if folks would actually stop stating opinion as fact, and attacking each other because of subjective opinion.
I find the lack of respect for other peoples opinions here, sadly lacking.
read.his.post.again.
I've left plenty of mmos and i've never, ever, felt the need to write angry posts about it on a forum. When people rage like that i they always strike me as whiny brats because i can't imagine any worthwhile reason to waste your time posting on the forum of a game you hate
I was responding to someone else who asked if a poster resented people who collected data...
Next time you want to be a smart *** make sure you've understood the post you're responding to in context
Well, I can only speak for myself, and honestly I do try to at least convey that as much as possible, there's no reason for me to disagree with your point about one persons anecdotal evidence being not reliable because ultimately it's not. You are completely right.
But then again you go on to disagree with mech, only to end up arguing a straw man and missing his point, that there is a lack of transparency from the developers which leaves us with no ALTERNATIVE but to look at things like x-fire for answers or anecdotal and subjective evidence.
The arguments of posting on a forum of a game you hate is an odd one, but again speaking for myself I "DON'T" hate the game, I hate the monetization, I hate the lack of transparency, I hate some of he decisions they've made about certain aspects of the game in terms of grouping and whatnot. But to say I "hate" the entire game, is an assumption
Negative opinion threads, will exist. No matter what you do someone will have issues with the design choices or player behavior, I could be a smart alec and use the asinine line of response that most folks try to tout as a proper answer by saying:
"If you don't like differing opinions, don't read the forums, lolololol!!!!!!11!!one"
same way as folks state:
"if you don't like it don't play the game!!!!!!!!!!11!!!eleventy"
But i'm not going to insult you like that. Instead I'd simply ask that you not further muddy the waters, by claiming that the only data we can go after, is irrelevant while ignoring the fact we're not being supplied with the proper data by the official sources.
Anyone ever tell you that you have aggression issues?
The point he was making, was that there's a lack of official data sources on these things. If you had read his post you'd have noted this, yet you instead argued against a straw man.
Here, I'll clarify further:
Translation: The reason why people are forced to use anecdotal evidence, and third party sources which may be argued as unreliable, is because we're not getting that data from Cryptic/PWE.
There is a lack of transparency.
Translation: Third party sources are not official. Can't debate this without official data. Anecdotal evidence is easily dismissed.
^ you didn't actually respond to him at all, so why the quote?
Sorry just can't help it
When someone starts with name calling then accuses people of not thinking.
Specifically you were asked if you resented people that collected data, and reading the context it is pretty clear you do. Grand slam comedy there.
I was just thinking the same thing. For those of us who have been in mmo's, back when m.u.d.s were king, we've seen a ton of games come and go. We had less negativity and more problem solving. A very small percentage of the players were usually the ones who would post anything on the forums. Most things were taken care of ingame and through constant tickets. When there were threads posted that showed legit gaming concerns, they were usually taken seriously and the admins would quickly get the devs involved. We will always have the "sky is falling" threads and the folks who supposedly quit but are here, a week later still posting on the forums. I remember folks saying that wow wasn't going to make it when it first came out. That was so glitchy for the longest that some of the early subscribers built up there toon's accounts with tons of coin that they kept. People then, said the game wouldn't out live the EQ series. I remember how SOE screwed a great SWG game. Folks quit by the dozens and the game was suppose to die out in a few months. How many years did it last after the first combat change then when the nge hit? I can list more games that were doomed to fail, according to the forum threads, that actually survived for quite a few years.
Of course, on the flip-side, there were those flash in the pans that fizzled out after their exciting start. They usually didn't have great end-game content. They let the glitchers and farmers take control of the game. They would usually keep their community in the dark until the hour of a game patch. But they also usually didn't have a big time financial cushion for the months they may have dipped in the red.
Folks hate to hear that we are in an "open beta" but that is what it is. The only difference here, when compared to past games, is that there will be no character wipe (as of today), and we can actually spend a ton of cash for ingame flash and crafting speed now. Not all of the content is even out yet and I do hope, they have even more that they haven't shared with the community. As someone who is financially comfortable in the real world, I chose to invest a bit of cash and time, into this game due to my love of R.A. Salvatore's Drizzt series. That being said, PW seriously needs to listen to what their gaming community wants, and implement the changes as soon as they can. Communicating with more posts on what they are doing and what is coming up, instead of trying to give us pleasant surprises, will help calm most folks down. I've seen other devs do this through their admins and it usually helps a ton.
We've all seen the threads on what we would like fixed, implemented, etc. I do hope PW is reading these thoroughly. Please listen to your gaming community. A very easy start would be to fix the warrior classes while not nerfing other classes (I play a cleric btw) and fix the Need or Greed options when folks group up. Not sure how to go about it? Read some of the more constructive threads posted by players that actually care.
I don't think that the sky is falling, yet, but we are at one of the usual crossroads that every mmorpg comes to in the early part of their history.
---sorry for ranting but I just now got my first cup of coffee
What in my post gave you the idea I was trying to do "damage control", or is this just some talking point you have to "shout down" the nay sayers? My comment was directed at the general atmosphere on gaming forums in general, and is, frankly, not inconsistent at all. However, if you know a game that has a forum that isn't, share a link? I'd be interested in looking, and may even look at the game. I am as much a forum junky as a game junky. So do tell; what counter examples are you referring to?
Which comes back to the TL;DR part of my post: Let it get out of the gate before putting the final nails in it's coffin. Reading game forums should always be done with a grain of salt. So far, none of the extreme examples of negativity here have come to pass. The economy isn't totally trashed, unless you're a loot ninja looking to get rich quick at the expense of your groups. Bots are an issue, but they are an issue in most of the games I've played over the years, and frankly, I've seen bots in Closed Betas before, so this is nothing new, or even remotely surprising. Report them, and go on. It's far too early to tell if this is going to be a flop, moderately successful, or hugely successful. It just depends on which way the devs go, and while more communication would be nice, we get far more communication here than in some other games I've played for far longer than this has been out.
But yeah, I predict the same extreme posting pattern for all games to come, including the next-uber-hyped ESO. Same old HAMSTER, new generation.
I think you are missing something Over-hyping = Upset Players => Angry Post Patterns.
The problem is with free to play games is ,
1. Its over-hype to the extreme.
2. Get people to buy the big super duper packs.
3. Let them get into the game
4. Pull the rug out from under them.
5. Profit from the remainder of the players that have more dollars than sense.
A "balance patch" really? Of all the things they need what makes you think they need a balance patch? Because it's harder as a GWF to level to 60 than other classes? You don't do as much damage as another class? Sorry this is the sort of stuff that always annoys me in games.... classes should be different have different roles etc... don't say balance patch... cry about content that doesn't make your class stand out or mechanics that need to be added to your class that others don't have that adds value to having it in a group....
Crying about classes being unbalanced just creates vanilla classes.... what do you want to be able to detect traps and do spot heals and maybe a couple of nukes for your GWF? I mean seriously... If you are talking about pvp I can understand being concerned about some sort of balancing but otherwise D&D ought to be about what does your class bring to the table that other classes don't... and in my opinion they all do that. Now you may not like they way they do it because you want your GWF to be a super nuking sword wielding ninja healer armored rush bomber.... but that's your problem.... play a different class.
Balance does not equate to homogenization. That's a straw man argument.
3e fighters garbage. Casters gods. Rogues ok, not the best.
4e fighters gods. casters gods. rogues gods. Everyone's fun to play.
--Community: FREAKS THE ****** OUT! Demands changes. Game too wow-y. MMO-trash. Herp derp. QQ.
So it's funny to me that the neverwinter mmo abides by the backlash against 4e by making fighters utter garbage again, whether intentional or unintentional.
Meh... this game may not be perfect missing a lot imo even for being new... maybe it was just me hoping for a lot more though. What really bothers me is the zen shop... they swore up and down this game would not be play to win... well I guess they didn't lie... it's just so uncomfortable to play unless you do spend absurd amounts of money it's sort of like a slap in the face instead of enjoyable. $35 for a mount? $10 for a bag? $35 for a companion? These people smoking crack? I want to be able to solo mainly just because I don't have much time to play and at times after work I don't want to talk with people so yeah I need a companion...yeah I can get one...only it can't be leveled past a baby ****? What's up with that? Buy zen! This is one of the reasons I would/will quit playing without a doubt.... and I actually like the game even though I have complaints about lack of truly interesting mechanics, a boxed in world, and a craptastic foundry system. You know what was really annoying... the 15% bonus on "certain" game cards... wtf was up with that? How about double points once a month.... and drop the prices on everything by 50% permanently...I mean seriously how frickin greedy can you get.
The things is , the xfire data is not "unreliable", the problem is with its population selection. There is no guarantee that the xfire population overlap greatly the general NW playing population. But at the moment it is the only evidence, and match to boot the OP's anecdote. In fact I remember reading a comment similar to yours about Kotor population, while at the same time the dev were clamoring they got 750K or whatever. In the end we know how it ended.
I invited some friends to play with me... once they got to 60 .. they don't even login anymore.
Mate I am not a fan boy, but believe me this game is all but a P2W, i spent 40 euro in the first few day of the open beta because I usually buy new MMO that grab my attention when they come out.
And since this one was free I decided to trow in the usual 40 euro anyway.
I haven't spent a dime until that day, it's not needed at all...
Mount= I don't care, you only need it in pvp, rest of the gameplay at 60 is instanced
Bags= you need them, but 1000 zen is 320000 AD atm, pretty much half of the price of a T2 piece you would get from DD
companion= the best companion for your first char is the white cleric...free, at 60 you can buy a cat for 980k ad (less than a t2 rogue helm atm) or a stone for 2k zen (640k ad)
coalescent wards= if you ever need them, they cost 1000 zen but in AH 120k each is overpriced... you can get them by praying...
let's not forget this game is not competitive at all, you can 3 shot people in pvp, no matter if you have a perfect vorpal and rank 10 rune, 3 shot will be 2.5, not much of a difference.
as for pve i have a 11k tr with a cat, 4 piece of mixed T2 gear, rank 5 rune everywhere and no enchant on mainhand....I am doing CN daily with no issue.....