I could just be spoiled by my own experiences. I played the Cleric in Alpha when it was first being designed (I believe I can say that much without violating any remaining NDA) and righteousness didn't exist. I never dropped from full hp. Not once. Not ever.
So in alpha if you got 100% of your heals your hp bar never moved.
I think i can safely say this is not the case any more.
All the heals i do are AOE heals which means i am getting the same heals as every one else in the group if they are stood near to me. So Mr GWF who is stood near to me is getting 100% of my heals he also does not have the aggro from 90% of the mobs in the room. So by your statement his HP bar will never move.
Im sorry to inform you but his hp bar does move and has even died from his hp bar moving, im also sure he would die alot faster if he was only getting 60% of my heals and had all the aggro. This makes me believe they must have changed something else since Alpha and forgot to inform you about it !!!
A cleric who can heal himself the amount that he can heal 4 other people simutaneously is a problem which won't go away without righteousness. People might view the connotation negatively but that mechanic can't go away without the cleric being a god.
While I agree that some kind of debuff needs to be in place for PvP balance and other reasons your explanation here does not make any sense at all.
Any other MMO does exactly the same and it's not like you heal 4x on yourself. You still only heal yourself for one person. I don't even understand what you are trying to say here..
As others pointed out, no other MMO needs a 40% debuff. Other MMos tend to run into issues with PvP balancing though but most of them managed to balance them out. I assume the autoselftargetted heals are a reason for the debuff as well. I'd rather see them redesign those heals or apply the debuff only on those heals. Some more interesting heal mechanics like with all the different healing classes in EQ2 or even from Vanguard healers or GW healers would be fun, as well.
First character was a GWF, Meh ( didnt get past 20 before rerolling)
Second was Rogue (OP as hell but not my playstyle)
Third was Cleric, and instantly fell in love. (also my first 60)
How refreshing to not stand there and save mana for heals. Not only are you not required to sit there, you are REQUIRED to actually dps!!
I soloed the entire game until 60, with either the Dire wolf or tank companion.
My advice on stats, go tanky, get forgemasters flame. Win
Solo is fine yeah and I've no problem with how the class actually plays.
But that doesn't work in dungeons when everything in any given encounter is targeting you. No problem, just put down astral shield! Oh wait it's full of red aoe attacks the second you cast it so now you're forced to run around/dodge attempting to avoid the mobs that follow you and just don't stop even when/if they're being cc'd to kingdom come.
I've even been in encounters where I've literally not cast a single spell in the first seconds of a fight whilst the dps build aggro on mobs and they still come running for me.
Solo is fine yeah and I've no problem with how the class actually plays.
But that doesn't work in dungeons when everything in any given encounter is targeting you. No problem, just put down astral shield! Oh wait it's full of red aoe attacks the second you cast it so now you're forced to run around/dodge attempting to avoid the mobs that follow you and just don't stop even when/if they're being cc'd to kingdom come.
I've even been in encounters where I've literally not cast a single spell in the first seconds of a fight whilst the dps build aggro on mobs and they still come running for me.
Cleric aggro is broken. Simple as that.
Haven't you heard? Clerics are the tanks in this game. Our heals are our taunts. GF and GWF are just there so boys can play with sticks.
I am so tempted to get another DC up and deck her out on all HP/Defense gear and feats and see how tanky I can get her
After all they throw that gear after us in every freaking quest reward..hint maybe?
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited June 2013
The mechanics in this game are actually quite different than most other MMOs.
First off let's go over some ground rules for clerics:
1) Every heal you cast heals your target AND you.
2) AoE Heals still heal you at 40% (or are supposed to)
Other games have clerics heal themselves OR their allies. Neverwinter's healing is shared more similar to a real time strategy or moba style game.
So, the healing output is designed to keep four allies healed. Since all healing powers target yourself and your allies you will get 100% of the heals that is designed to be dispersed amongst four people.
I'm not sure how many of you have played clerics or are merely third person observers but as long as I, as a cleric, can cast my spells I have absolutely no issue keeping the rest of the team alive. The healing output just from Astral Seal will keep the DPS Characters alive.
PvP can actually give a lot of insight to how effectively a cleric can heal allies. I generally don't like PvP in MMO's but I have done a fair bit on Neverwinter. I have faced teams that immediately change and focus on me when in fights and I simply can't stay alive but if they don't target me I can keep my allies alive forever. And this is the same issue which occurs in dungeons.
If mobs didn't target the cleric he would have absolutely no problem keeping himself and his allies healed. The aggro is a requirement to distrupt his heals. If clerics could supply themselves with the level of healing he can and does give to his allies he would never get dirtupted or presured.
No other MMO has such limitations on the clerics healing themselves because other MMOs have clerics choose whether to target themselves or their allies rather than the action set-up you'll find in NW which is, in all honesty, more comparable to League of Legeneds than WoW.
The mechanics in this game are actually quite different than most other MMOs.
First off let's go over some ground rules for clerics:
1) Every heal you cast heals your target AND you.
2) AoE Heals still heal you at 40% (or are supposed to)
Other games have clerics heal themselves OR their allies. Neverwinter's healing is shared more similar to a real time strategy or moba style game.
So, the healing output is designed to keep four allies healed. Since all healing powers target yourself and your allies you will get 100% of the heals that is designed to be dispersed amongst four people.
I'm not sure how many of you have played clerics or are merely third person observers but as long as I, as a cleric, can cast my spells I have absolutely no issue keeping the rest of the team alive. The healing output just from Astral Seal will keep the DPS Characters alive.
PvP can actually give a lot of insight to how effectively a cleric can heal allies. I generally don't like PvP in MMO's but I have done a fair bit on Neverwinter. I have faced teams that immediately change and focus on me when in fights and I simply can't stay alive but if they don't target me I can keep my allies alive forever. And this is the same issue which occurs in dungeons.
If mobs didn't target the cleric he would have absolutely no problem keeping himself and his allies healed. The aggro is a requirement to distrupt his heals. If clerics could supply themselves with the level of healing he can and does give to his allies he would never get dirtupted or presured.
No other MMO has such limitations on the clerics healing themselves because other MMOs have clerics choose whether to target themselves or their allies rather than the action set-up you'll find in NW which is, in all honesty, more comparable to League of Legeneds than WoW.
You keep going on about no other mmo has the cleric heal this way....Rift Chloromancer.
Meaning the rest of your post is spurious.
...............vote for your favourite expansion.......... "Mod 6. Oh my f****** god. It gutted the game pure and simple. And what wasn't gutted was messed up by the poorly thought out new level cap and equip. The game never recovered from that atrocity". ..............not this one then.............
Same here: I've played a ton of games where the healer gets healback from most/all heals. It's fairly common to the point where often they have to state "this one DOESN'T give you healbacks".
Plus the phrasing seems to imply that healing in NW works by the cleric running off to heal ally #1 and getting healback from that, running off to heal ally #2 and getting healback from that, and so on, thus getting 4x heal themselves. This is not the reality (unless you're a bit rubbish at coordinating, or rely exclusively on healing word, in which case you'll never match the damage pressure). Most of our heals are AOE, with an appreciable cooldown, thus it pays to heal as many allies as possible each time. So one sunburst: 4 allies healed. 60% heal for us. Another sunburst: the same 4 allies healed, but again only 60% heal for us.
As for the PvP example, it boils down to "if the opponents target me, I drop, whereas if they don't, I don't".
This is both obvious and unsurprising. It's pretty much the default approach to gank the healer first, and all righteousness does is make that considerably easier.
Ah, chloromancer, the class that made me love healing. I remember myself and 2 clerics trio healing Hammerknell.
And honestly, some of your heals ONLY heal you if you're close (Forgemaster's), or you're attacking that same mob again (Astral Seal). Again - I've pretty much been able to overcome the -40% heal debuff, but that's from stacking defense and having good groupmates.
I still say Righteousness is the number 1 reason any cleric pre-50 decides to quit.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
As for the PvP example, it boils down to "if the opponents target me, I drop, whereas if they don't, I don't".
This is both obvious and unsurprising. It's pretty much the default approach to gank the healer first, and all righteousness does is make that considerably easier.
The point is I have allowed a single person to survive 1v4's if the enemy team is too foolish to target me.
If that type of sustain was given to a cleric they would never fall. Even as it is now the reason I end up dieing in PvP is due to Guardian Fighters knocking me on the ground in a chain effect or facing a CW. Key in both situations is the CC prevents me from healing at all. Rogues on the other hand take a while but they're easy enough to 1v1 as a Cleric or dodge in team fights.
Yes, all self explanatory, duh CC kills.
The number of spells which are smaller AoE's are very few. I've never used Forgemaster's Flame (doesn't fit my playstyle) but every spell I use will heal me. AS basically gets placed beneath my feet for the benefit of myself, CW(s) and GWF(s). Sunburst will supply a bit of additional AoE healing/control for the three of us.
I use Astral Seal on various targets which will keep the GF(s) and Rogue(s) alive and well for the most part. Then depending on the team comp I can use Healing Word for further healing power on the GF/Rogue or Daunting Light for a bit more damage.
That's my take on the cleric and it, overall, works very well and keeps me healed quite effectively. The kink in the strategy is the knock-up effects from various mobs. Without the knock-up CC impacting Astral Shield the game is actually too easy.
If you're in agreement with everything I have said thus far the issue is, and will continue to be, the effectivness of various healing abilities, over-reliance on Astral Shield, and how aggro is generated. People complaining about righteousness are looking at this issue skin deep.
Let me ask this since I have never played rift, does that class heal allies more than himself or does he have less effective heals than other healing classes?
That is typically the loophole that psychologists use and my guess at how Cryptic will likely tackle the righteousness issue which is more psychological than practical. The issue with righteousness would be far less likely to come up if heals were 40% more effective on allies than 60% effective on yourself. Silly non-sense I hate and consider completely irrational but it means a world of difference to the average person.
1 + 1 = 2 rather than 3 - 1 = 2.
The arguments presented for righteousness is that due to being targeted by everything (and having allies who don't consider me the priority) I can't heal myself enough. That's a different issue altogether.
TL;DR : The cleric is able to keep himself alive outside of large mob occurrences (boss rooms) so the issue isn't that the cleric isn't able to heal himself enough. It's Mob Management. Righteousness is a psychological scapegoat due to feeling like you "lost" something.
If you don't use Forgemaster's... no wonder you feel like Astral Shield is a one hit wonder. Try using FF.
Righteousness isn't a psychological reason at all.. you literally DID lose something - 40% of your heals. Not sure how you can argue that you aren't really losing anything.
Chloromancer in RIFT can heal himself as good as any other person... because, you know, he takes the same amount of damage as any other person in his group, just makes sense.
Well, no. Saying "we'll fix mob management" is almost a slightly backhanded way of missing the point of righteousness. "It won't matter if you can't heal yourself if you're not getting hit" is...obvious and kinda unhelpful. I mean, sure, it would be nice if we weren't getting instagibbed by everything ever, but I'm assuming that even if that got fixed there would still BE times when everything is trying to "gank teh healer" and it's in precisely those situations that inability to effectively self-heal becomes a problem.
It's sort of..."not a problem if all is going well, but as soon as things are not going well, it's TOTALLY a problem". It's like saying "it doesn't matter if you have two broken legs if you don't need to GO anywhere."
Technically true, but avoiding the issue.
Astral Shield is (as noted) not affected by this debuff, which is yet another reason why it should never, ever leave your bar, but things like healing word and that utterly useless blue healbeam are affected by it, and they're the sort of things you only ever need to use if everything's gone pearshaped, which is exactly when you need the healing. If I'm panic running and desperately need a self-heal, those are now the last things I would ever think of using, because they're just not going to cut it. I'd rather blow a pip on forgemastering something chasing me, so it slows down, takes damage AND gives me a couple of heal ticks. Soothing light is just a waste of DP for the healing it effectively does. It's....passable as an emergency sustain heal on an ally, if they're out of range of everything else or everything else is on cooldown, but on yourself it's just a comedy way of wasting DP before dying.
Getting bonus backheals from keeping everyone alive just in general is...well, meaningless a lot of the time, because they're fine: they don't really need the healing because they're getting the full whack of each heal. We need the heal. I find myself firing off sunbursts in quiet mid-fight moments in dungeons, even when everyone else is full health, purely because I need the health, and sunburst will heal me without costing me DP.
It might be interesting to see what would happen if you changed HW/soothing to be direct heals: so zero healback from casting it on allies, but full healing if cast directly on yourself. Then you couldn't argue that passive healing is too OP, but you'd also have emergency OMG HALP heals available.
Fix the freaking boss fights and drop the lazy "spam-adds" mechanics. I mean, EQ2 and WoW had some of the best group and raid boss mechanics ever. I feel like hitting my head through the wall with boss fights here..If it wasn't all zergling fights the aggro and self heal issue would be lessened.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
Righteousness isn't a psychological reason at all.. you literally DID lose something - 40% of your heals. Not sure how you can argue that you aren't really losing anything.
Chloromancer in RIFT can heal himself as good as any other person... because, you know, he takes the same amount of damage as any other person in his group, just makes sense.
Extra Credits - Rest Systems.
Doesn't matter if you lose something or not. A penatly written as a bonus has a huge psychological impact.
When I told my uncle that he only gets a portion of heals he complained. He knew nothing about anything. He only heard that he was a healer who couldn't heal himself. He heard he lost something and made an immediate reaction.
It's nothing but a skin deep reaction. It makes a huge difference if players give bonus heals out to allies which is in truth how the system really works. You are able to keep yourself alive effortlessly with only using 60% of your healing power so if that was the 100% point and people could heal allies at 140% effectiveness it would cause a completely different reaction.
"You heal yourself less than allies" compared to "You heal allies more than yourself."
Rewording it would reduce the complaints by far because players feel like they lost something when in fact the level of healing is more than enough to keep yourself alive outside of very, very, very specific situations.
The chloromancer likely is balanced by healing much less effectively than other classes, am I right. He has a small amount of healing power but it gets spread out throughout his allies? That's how that would work. For righteousness to go away the healing power would have to be reduced.
Because, again, you're saying the healing powers are weak because of one very specific problem in very specific situations.
Getting bonus backheals from keeping everyone alive just in general is...well, meaningless a lot of the time, because they're fine: they don't really need the healing because they're getting the full whack of each heal. We need the heal. I find myself firing off sunbursts in quiet mid-fight moments in dungeons, even when everyone else is full health, purely because I need the health, and sunburst will heal me without costing me DP.
So again, when you're not inside a boss fight or getting focus fired in PvP you're fine. Might be dodging a bit but overall no potion use and no deaths?
Taking away righteousness would be putting a band-aid on the issue which is how much clerics are pulling aggro and how much other classes are pulling aggro as well. Right now the main reason other classes are taking damage is because they are getting "splashed" due to protecting the cleric.
This leaves clerics feeling like a frantic piece of meat on a stick and other classes feeling like the main pressure is to kill things which have their back turned to them. The problem could be solved by simply making the cleric able to heal to the point that he laughs at everything attacking him.
The point beyond all this is to ask yourself...is that the strategy you want?
Are you saying that because that's the true issue or a psychological mind trick?
Personally me being the tank laughing at all the aggro which is ignoring the friends around them who died due to the control wizard and the man with the sword the size of his body isn't really provocative and thrilling. I'd rather have to start worrying about my allies a little more and worry about me a little less.
If the fight stops being a massive dog pile on top of the cleric the amount of healing due to righteousness would be a reduced (likely moot) issue.
Extra Credits - Rest Systems.
Doesn't matter if you lose something or not. A penatly written as a bonus has a huge psychological impact.
When I told my uncle that he only gets a portion of heals he complained. He knew nothing about anything. He only heard that he was a healer who couldn't heal himself. He heard he lost something and made an immediate reaction.
It's nothing but a skin deep reaction. It makes a huge difference if players give bonus heals out to allies which is in truth how the system really works. You are able to keep yourself alive effortlessly with only using 60% of your healing power so if that was the 100% point and people could heal allies at 140% effectiveness it would cause a completely different reaction.
"You heal yourself less than allies" compared to "You heal allies more than yourself."
Rewording it would reduce the complaints by far because players feel like they lost something when in fact the level of healing is more than enough to keep yourself alive outside of very, very, very specific situations.
The chloromancer likely is balanced by healing much less effectively than other classes, am I right. He has a small amount of healing power but it gets spread out throughout his allies? That's how that would work. For righteousness to go away the healing power would have to be reduced.
Because, again, you're saying the healing powers are weak because of one very specific problem in very specific situations.
So again, when you're not inside a boss fight or getting focus fired in PvP you're fine. Might be dodging a bit but overall no potion use and no deaths?
Taking away righteousness would be putting a band-aid on the issue which is how much clerics are pulling aggro and how much other classes are pulling aggro as well. Right now the main reason other classes are taking damage is because they are getting "splashed" due to protecting the cleric.
This leaves clerics feeling like a frantic piece of meat on a stick and other classes feeling like the main pressure is to kill things which have their back turned to them. The problem could be solved by simply making the cleric able to heal to the point that he laughs at everything attacking him.
The point beyond all this is to ask yourself...is that the strategy you want?
Are you saying that because that's the true issue or a psychological mind trick?
Personally me being the tank laughing at all the aggro which is ignoring the friends around them who died due to the control wizard and the man with the sword the size of his body isn't really provocative and thrilling. I'd rather have to start worrying about my allies a little more and worry about me a little less.
If the fight stops being a massive dog pile on top of the cleric the amount of healing due to righteousness would be a reduced (likely moot) issue.
With your repeat and increasingly antagonistic replies you are just garnering a reputation as a Neverwinter apologist. When you have one of the game's most knowledgeable players commenting on the class issues you should listen more and hold off responding with growing perception of arrogance.
There is nothing wrong with admitting that something is wrong - which with the cleric class it plainly is. Far better than continuing to spout head in the sand platitudes like some kind of Neverwinter Grima Wormtongue
...............vote for your favourite expansion.......... "Mod 6. Oh my f****** god. It gutted the game pure and simple. And what wasn't gutted was messed up by the poorly thought out new level cap and equip. The game never recovered from that atrocity". ..............not this one then.............
God, no. As a chloromancer, I was THE top healing on every single raid I was in, and that was also while I was focusing on a MT. RIFT knew how to make a fun healer, that's all.
And your youtube post is pointless, honestly. Look at it anyway YOU want to look at it, but it basically says you will NEVER heal yourself for as much as you can heal anyone else. It's not that I perceive it as a debuff, it is a debuff. Honestly man, I'm done with this conversation.
Gads. I originally rolled cleric in the closed betas and without gear, I touched maybe 5 pots from 1 through 20. Then CB4 came in, and I used 5 pots yet again. The difficulty with cleric is only in regards to killing the right mob first.
During CB4 I also rolled a guardian and "fell in love." It's just so much fun. GWF starts to use pots at lvl 4. If you aren't getting out of the red circles, you have already used 5 pots by the time you first see Protector's enclave at level 4. Level 5 you are already up past the 15 range if you get a bad round of stuns. (or lag spike.) PS: to clarify, I purposefully stood in the red circles to see what would happen. Playing correctly, you might need a pot if you opt to go all spinny in a red circle instead of stepping outside of it.
Guardian of the Nine:
GWF: 3 pots
Cleric: 2 HoT's and 4 AoE circles. in CB4. No healing in Open Beta.
Orcs:
GWF CB4: Pots... 80% of what's dropped. At least one per encounter until you figure out how to use your lifesteal swipe correctly.
GWF Open Beta: half of your pots that drop on the ground consumed. (I had a couple lag spikes, and a very bad skirmish. Otherwise, 35-40%)
Cleric CB4: Don't friggin' matter. 40 mobs at the same time in CB4, with an additional 2 trains put on me. Healed the idiots, killed their adds, and only then did I have to start standing outside the spawn area after another 10 spawned. 3 pots used. (I sold all my pots earlier as they weren't required.)
I just rolled my cleric for open beta so that I can do some farming and I'm already bored with him. Having had spent the money for the starting weapon, I'm already stuck having to kill mobs to get my level as I have already completed all of the quest lines available to me, and I'm in blackwater with 4 whole pieces of gear on my guy.
Stop whining. ^_^ And yes, I really do plan on leveling the cleric up. It's just so boring... PS: work on divinity cycling. Switch out of it for heals and aoe, and into it for damage burns. Should keep you with almost never running out of divinity, if they haven't changed it much since cb4.
I don't mind righteousness as a concept. I do mind its implementation, because this is the situation it's involved in right now:
(1) Clerics don't heal themselves well against heavy sustained damage unless they use potions.
(2) Clerics pull aaaaaall the aggro if they attempt to use most of their healing abilities.
(3) 80% or more of NW's 5-man boss fights revolve around the party (or rather, the cleric) getting swarmed by adds.
(4) Therefore the only viable endgame builds for clerics are AoE DPS builds (which seem to pull remarkably little threat for how facemelty they are) or mitigation-oriented tanky cleric builds (Foresight + Astral Seal + Sunburst/Forgemaster's/whatever + the overpowered-beyond-belief Astral Shield).
(5) This pretty much leads to clerics in PvE being forced to choose either to be overpowered (which both of those viable build paths currently are) or else to be very likely to get killed in every high-level boss fight (which is the end result of most other builds, including pretty much any build 50+ that doesn't use a Divine-mode Astral Shield CONSTANTLY).
This would seem to be a problem. If righteousness is going to stay around as an innate passive on the DC, then there needs to be a way for people who want to play an actual direct healer (not a barrier-protector thing) to avoid having ALL the aggro ALL the time in a group setting while still doing their job as healers.
Leave the cleritanking to the shield-oriented clerics, and balance them accordingly, but don't force nearly every cleric in the whole game to be the main tank of the party whether they want to be or not. :-/
The OP is trying too hard. You are not expected to keep the group fully healed while keeping down adds all by your lonesome - or at least, not until you get Astral Shield.
The way the Lair of the Mad Dragon fight worked for me was I ignored the boss and actively went around trying to kill off adds. I completely ignored anyone who didn't come with me except the player actively tanking/dpsing the dragon - you stray, you die.
People usually get the message soon enough, and pretty soon you will either have a good add management group going. The dungeon is pretty straightforward after that.
You there. New to the game? Feeling overwhelmed? Maybe you think getting to end-game is impossible for a casual player like yourself, or maybe you just need to be around a community that helps each other stay sane and competitive with the latest news, current trends, random chitchat and most of all LEGIT (that is, we try to keep things fair) gameplay. If you don't mind being around quirky people and the rare occasional drama (one of our prominent TR members is apparently a mafia godfather) join nw_legit_community at http://www.nwlegitcommunity.shivtr.com/forum_threads/2330542.
So again, when you're not inside a boss fight or getting focus fired in PvP you're fine. Might be dodging a bit but overall no potion use and no deaths?
Missing the point: I'm saying that I had to work 66% harder to stay fine than anyone else did. I kept myself topped up between fights...by massively overhealing everyone else: I was regularly using sunburst on cooldown whether we were in a fight or not, purely because regardless of whether everyone else was at 100% or not, I was consistently not. You're saying that the cleric should more than benefit from splash healing because they're healing 4 different people and getting splashback each time, when this is demonstrably not what people experience. AoE heals are where it's at, and that heals 4 people for 100% and one for...oh, 60%. I sometimes chugged potions in quiet between-fight moments simply because it saves time, and you can't expect a PUG to wait around while you sit and sunburst yourself a few times to get back to the point everyone else is at already.
Healing word, you might be able to make an argument for regarding backheals, but it's difficult to effectively use HW in dungeons because the targeting is terrible, you don't gain AP or DP from it unless you slot a passive for that AND you hit the right, damaged, target, and anyway: the healing is pretty awful too. And you can't stack the heal, only the duration: it's a a terrible spike heal. I'm quite surprised you seem to get so much out of it. Seriously: if you can play successfully with HW, I salute your skillz. Try ...almost any of the other skills, and you'll be incredible.
And again, while you could argue that firing four healing words at four allies nets you 4x healback (thus needed to be adjusted down to avoid OP-ness), firing healing words AT YOURSELF nets you just the nerfed healback. Using HW or soothing light directly on yourself is essentially a massive waste of healing power. It's much, much better to fire them at someone (anyone) else, since you're only going to get gimpy healback anyway: someone else might as well benefit from the full whack of healing.
Taking away righteousness would be putting a band-aid on the issue which is how much clerics are pulling aggro and how much other classes are pulling aggro as well. Right now the main reason other classes are taking damage is because they are getting "splashed" due to protecting the cleric.
No, they're two separate problems. One simply exacerbates the other. It's not that we can't heal ourselves because we're getting mobbed by everything, we can't heal ourselves effectively AND we're getting mobbed by everything. If we weren't getting mobbed by everything, we still wouldn't be able to heal ourselves effectively, but it would simply be less of a pressing problem. That doesn't mean it's not a problem, however.
The problem could be solved by simply making the cleric able to heal to the point that he laughs at everything attacking him.
Yes, it could. I think you're overstating the benefits of removing righteousness, though. If a 40% debuff is the critical difference between being "instant corpse" and "unstoppable godmonster", then there are serious, serious game balance issues. What it would do is make us feel slightly less helpless under pressure. Extra seconds of breathing space to let us chug more potions, at the very least.
Ultimately, you have to look at what people are using: astral shield, doesn't suffer from righteousness debuff, everyone uses it. Soothing light? Does suffer from the debuff, nobody uses it. It's terrible. Healing word? See above.
Basically: need to self heal? "Don't even bother looking at that skillbar, moron: it's potions all the way".
If people are altering their playstyle specifically to avoid all the problems righteousness generates (going into a dungeon? Take all the pots, ever, because you simply will not be able to self heal otherwise...and even if they fix the aggro, you still won't be able to self heal), then I'd say it's pretty good evidence that righteousness isn't a good idea. At the very best, it doesn't affect anyone negatively (because they simply don't use all the skills affected by it), it simply closes off a whole lot of options (because there are a lot of skills you simply won't use, because they're affected by it). No single factor should close off a whole range of skills.
And finally, to those who say "LOL ITS ALL ABOUT MAKING CLERICS USE TEH POTS", two points: one, in high end dungeons we chug pots like lapsed alcoholics, and two: using fewer potions is supposed to be one of the FEW perks of BEING a healer.
You do gimpy damage*, you always get blamed for everything that goes wrong, but by god you can keep yourself alive. In this game, we don't necessarily get that last bit.
*I've tried playing a GF on the side, and was astounded to discover, while fighting the many arrows tribe, that you can ONE-SHOT TRASH MOBS???? Massive damage output is not a cleric speciality, whereas survivability should be.
The debuff is completely unfair. Basically Clerics are the only class that has to spend gold on pots while everyone has a free pot during dungeons. Where is my healer? Screw the healer companion, it sucks. If this is to be fair then the other classes need a reason to spend tons of gold also. My TR barely ever uses pots because how fast and easy it is for her to take out mobs. Where is her debuff? What does she really need gold for? Buying pots doesn't even put a dent in her pockets because she barely has to buy any.
LOL can't be serious...? Please point out what that has to do with anything. Righteousness is a debuff. You think none would have noticed if it wasn't in plain sight? Dream on. Everyone would have noticed. If I had to agree with that video, it'd be that just because they added Righteousness, some people think that it's ok and doesn't affect them much.
I built myself to be a healer. I went Wis/Cha and my gear focus on crit/recovery. I'm squishy as hell and my heals on other people are great. The mobs wouldn't be such a huge problem if I could just, I don't know.... heal myself?
Gads. I originally rolled cleric in the closed betas and without gear, I touched maybe 5 pots from 1 through 20. Then CB4 came in, and I used 5 pots yet again. The difficulty with cleric is only in regards to killing the right mob first.
During CB4 I also rolled a guardian and "fell in love." It's just so much fun. GWF starts to use pots at lvl 4. If you aren't getting out of the red circles, you have already used 5 pots by the time you first see Protector's enclave at level 4. Level 5 you are already up past the 15 range if you get a bad round of stuns. (or lag spike.) PS: to clarify, I purposefully stood in the red circles to see what would happen. Playing correctly, you might need a pot if you opt to go all spinny in a red circle instead of stepping outside of it.
Guardian of the Nine:
GWF: 3 pots
Cleric: 2 HoT's and 4 AoE circles. in CB4. No healing in Open Beta.
Orcs:
GWF CB4: Pots... 80% of what's dropped. At least one per encounter until you figure out how to use your lifesteal swipe correctly.
GWF Open Beta: half of your pots that drop on the ground consumed. (I had a couple lag spikes, and a very bad skirmish. Otherwise, 35-40%)
Cleric CB4: Don't friggin' matter. 40 mobs at the same time in CB4, with an additional 2 trains put on me. Healed the idiots, killed their adds, and only then did I have to start standing outside the spawn area after another 10 spawned. 3 pots used. (I sold all my pots earlier as they weren't required.)
I just rolled my cleric for open beta so that I can do some farming and I'm already bored with him. Having had spent the money for the starting weapon, I'm already stuck having to kill mobs to get my level as I have already completed all of the quest lines available to me, and I'm in blackwater with 4 whole pieces of gear on my guy.
Stop whining. ^_^ And yes, I really do plan on leveling the cleric up. It's just so boring... PS: work on divinity cycling. Switch out of it for heals and aoe, and into it for damage burns. Should keep you with almost never running out of divinity, if they haven't changed it much since cb4.
LOL...
wait you're serious? How far did you level your cleric?
And I won't begin to talk about how everyone is saying "Use AS!! The debuff doesn't affect it!" But then we have people complaining that it's to OP and needs a nerf. Seriously? We'd only really have FF. The class needs to be really look at again. Hopefully the changes in the big patch coming "soon" includes something for Clerics.
Really? The very first boss in the entire game is your benchmark, and you have the audacity to tell people to stop whining? LOL
Get to CN, solo heal the whole zone, come back and report to me, sir.
I think his whole post went to pot..........or pots
...............vote for your favourite expansion.......... "Mod 6. Oh my f****** god. It gutted the game pure and simple. And what wasn't gutted was messed up by the poorly thought out new level cap and equip. The game never recovered from that atrocity". ..............not this one then.............
The OP is trying too hard. You are not expected to keep the group fully healed while keeping down adds all by your lonesome - or at least, not until you get Astral Shield.
The way the Lair of the Mad Dragon fight worked for me was I ignored the boss and actively went around trying to kill off adds. I completely ignored anyone who didn't come with me except the player actively tanking/dpsing the dragon - you stray, you die.
People usually get the message soon enough, and pretty soon you will either have a good add management group going. The dungeon is pretty straightforward after that.
This is pretty much what I ended up doing. I announced to the group that they are expected to stay together, TIGHT together and kill adds, every add that spawns need to die immediately. That was the only group I went in with that succeeded (havent been back yet though)
P.S. this forum really, REALLY needs a like button, because there are so many ppl that make sense and I cant quote them just to say I agree *rolls eyes*
Comments
It's not like NW clerics are THAT different.
So in alpha if you got 100% of your heals your hp bar never moved.
I think i can safely say this is not the case any more.
All the heals i do are AOE heals which means i am getting the same heals as every one else in the group if they are stood near to me. So Mr GWF who is stood near to me is getting 100% of my heals he also does not have the aggro from 90% of the mobs in the room. So by your statement his HP bar will never move.
Im sorry to inform you but his hp bar does move and has even died from his hp bar moving, im also sure he would die alot faster if he was only getting 60% of my heals and had all the aggro. This makes me believe they must have changed something else since Alpha and forgot to inform you about it !!!
While I agree that some kind of debuff needs to be in place for PvP balance and other reasons your explanation here does not make any sense at all.
Any other MMO does exactly the same and it's not like you heal 4x on yourself. You still only heal yourself for one person. I don't even understand what you are trying to say here..
As others pointed out, no other MMO needs a 40% debuff. Other MMos tend to run into issues with PvP balancing though but most of them managed to balance them out. I assume the autoselftargetted heals are a reason for the debuff as well. I'd rather see them redesign those heals or apply the debuff only on those heals. Some more interesting heal mechanics like with all the different healing classes in EQ2 or even from Vanguard healers or GW healers would be fun, as well.
Solo is fine yeah and I've no problem with how the class actually plays.
But that doesn't work in dungeons when everything in any given encounter is targeting you. No problem, just put down astral shield! Oh wait it's full of red aoe attacks the second you cast it so now you're forced to run around/dodge attempting to avoid the mobs that follow you and just don't stop even when/if they're being cc'd to kingdom come.
I've even been in encounters where I've literally not cast a single spell in the first seconds of a fight whilst the dps build aggro on mobs and they still come running for me.
Cleric aggro is broken. Simple as that.
After all they throw that gear after us in every freaking quest reward..hint maybe?
First off let's go over some ground rules for clerics:
1) Every heal you cast heals your target AND you.
2) AoE Heals still heal you at 40% (or are supposed to)
Other games have clerics heal themselves OR their allies. Neverwinter's healing is shared more similar to a real time strategy or moba style game.
So, the healing output is designed to keep four allies healed. Since all healing powers target yourself and your allies you will get 100% of the heals that is designed to be dispersed amongst four people.
I'm not sure how many of you have played clerics or are merely third person observers but as long as I, as a cleric, can cast my spells I have absolutely no issue keeping the rest of the team alive. The healing output just from Astral Seal will keep the DPS Characters alive.
PvP can actually give a lot of insight to how effectively a cleric can heal allies. I generally don't like PvP in MMO's but I have done a fair bit on Neverwinter. I have faced teams that immediately change and focus on me when in fights and I simply can't stay alive but if they don't target me I can keep my allies alive forever. And this is the same issue which occurs in dungeons.
If mobs didn't target the cleric he would have absolutely no problem keeping himself and his allies healed. The aggro is a requirement to distrupt his heals. If clerics could supply themselves with the level of healing he can and does give to his allies he would never get dirtupted or presured.
No other MMO has such limitations on the clerics healing themselves because other MMOs have clerics choose whether to target themselves or their allies rather than the action set-up you'll find in NW which is, in all honesty, more comparable to League of Legeneds than WoW.
You keep going on about no other mmo has the cleric heal this way....Rift Chloromancer.
Meaning the rest of your post is spurious.
"Mod 6. Oh my f****** god. It gutted the game pure and simple. And what wasn't gutted was messed up by the poorly thought out new level cap and equip. The game never recovered from that atrocity".
..............not this one then.............
Plus the phrasing seems to imply that healing in NW works by the cleric running off to heal ally #1 and getting healback from that, running off to heal ally #2 and getting healback from that, and so on, thus getting 4x heal themselves. This is not the reality (unless you're a bit rubbish at coordinating, or rely exclusively on healing word, in which case you'll never match the damage pressure). Most of our heals are AOE, with an appreciable cooldown, thus it pays to heal as many allies as possible each time. So one sunburst: 4 allies healed. 60% heal for us. Another sunburst: the same 4 allies healed, but again only 60% heal for us.
As for the PvP example, it boils down to "if the opponents target me, I drop, whereas if they don't, I don't".
This is both obvious and unsurprising. It's pretty much the default approach to gank the healer first, and all righteousness does is make that considerably easier.
And honestly, some of your heals ONLY heal you if you're close (Forgemaster's), or you're attacking that same mob again (Astral Seal). Again - I've pretty much been able to overcome the -40% heal debuff, but that's from stacking defense and having good groupmates.
I still say Righteousness is the number 1 reason any cleric pre-50 decides to quit.
The point is I have allowed a single person to survive 1v4's if the enemy team is too foolish to target me.
If that type of sustain was given to a cleric they would never fall. Even as it is now the reason I end up dieing in PvP is due to Guardian Fighters knocking me on the ground in a chain effect or facing a CW. Key in both situations is the CC prevents me from healing at all. Rogues on the other hand take a while but they're easy enough to 1v1 as a Cleric or dodge in team fights.
Yes, all self explanatory, duh CC kills.
The number of spells which are smaller AoE's are very few. I've never used Forgemaster's Flame (doesn't fit my playstyle) but every spell I use will heal me. AS basically gets placed beneath my feet for the benefit of myself, CW(s) and GWF(s). Sunburst will supply a bit of additional AoE healing/control for the three of us.
I use Astral Seal on various targets which will keep the GF(s) and Rogue(s) alive and well for the most part. Then depending on the team comp I can use Healing Word for further healing power on the GF/Rogue or Daunting Light for a bit more damage.
That's my take on the cleric and it, overall, works very well and keeps me healed quite effectively. The kink in the strategy is the knock-up effects from various mobs. Without the knock-up CC impacting Astral Shield the game is actually too easy.
If you're in agreement with everything I have said thus far the issue is, and will continue to be, the effectivness of various healing abilities, over-reliance on Astral Shield, and how aggro is generated. People complaining about righteousness are looking at this issue skin deep.
Let me ask this since I have never played rift, does that class heal allies more than himself or does he have less effective heals than other healing classes?
That is typically the loophole that psychologists use and my guess at how Cryptic will likely tackle the righteousness issue which is more psychological than practical. The issue with righteousness would be far less likely to come up if heals were 40% more effective on allies than 60% effective on yourself. Silly non-sense I hate and consider completely irrational but it means a world of difference to the average person.
1 + 1 = 2 rather than 3 - 1 = 2.
The arguments presented for righteousness is that due to being targeted by everything (and having allies who don't consider me the priority) I can't heal myself enough. That's a different issue altogether.
TL;DR : The cleric is able to keep himself alive outside of large mob occurrences (boss rooms) so the issue isn't that the cleric isn't able to heal himself enough. It's Mob Management. Righteousness is a psychological scapegoat due to feeling like you "lost" something.
Righteousness isn't a psychological reason at all.. you literally DID lose something - 40% of your heals. Not sure how you can argue that you aren't really losing anything.
Chloromancer in RIFT can heal himself as good as any other person... because, you know, he takes the same amount of damage as any other person in his group, just makes sense.
Well, no. Saying "we'll fix mob management" is almost a slightly backhanded way of missing the point of righteousness. "It won't matter if you can't heal yourself if you're not getting hit" is...obvious and kinda unhelpful. I mean, sure, it would be nice if we weren't getting instagibbed by everything ever, but I'm assuming that even if that got fixed there would still BE times when everything is trying to "gank teh healer" and it's in precisely those situations that inability to effectively self-heal becomes a problem.
It's sort of..."not a problem if all is going well, but as soon as things are not going well, it's TOTALLY a problem". It's like saying "it doesn't matter if you have two broken legs if you don't need to GO anywhere."
Technically true, but avoiding the issue.
Astral Shield is (as noted) not affected by this debuff, which is yet another reason why it should never, ever leave your bar, but things like healing word and that utterly useless blue healbeam are affected by it, and they're the sort of things you only ever need to use if everything's gone pearshaped, which is exactly when you need the healing. If I'm panic running and desperately need a self-heal, those are now the last things I would ever think of using, because they're just not going to cut it. I'd rather blow a pip on forgemastering something chasing me, so it slows down, takes damage AND gives me a couple of heal ticks. Soothing light is just a waste of DP for the healing it effectively does. It's....passable as an emergency sustain heal on an ally, if they're out of range of everything else or everything else is on cooldown, but on yourself it's just a comedy way of wasting DP before dying.
Getting bonus backheals from keeping everyone alive just in general is...well, meaningless a lot of the time, because they're fine: they don't really need the healing because they're getting the full whack of each heal. We need the heal. I find myself firing off sunbursts in quiet mid-fight moments in dungeons, even when everyone else is full health, purely because I need the health, and sunburst will heal me without costing me DP.
It might be interesting to see what would happen if you changed HW/soothing to be direct heals: so zero healback from casting it on allies, but full healing if cast directly on yourself. Then you couldn't argue that passive healing is too OP, but you'd also have emergency OMG HALP heals available.
Fix the freaking boss fights and drop the lazy "spam-adds" mechanics. I mean, EQ2 and WoW had some of the best group and raid boss mechanics ever. I feel like hitting my head through the wall with boss fights here..If it wasn't all zergling fights the aggro and self heal issue would be lessened.
Extra Credits - Rest Systems.
Doesn't matter if you lose something or not. A penatly written as a bonus has a huge psychological impact.
When I told my uncle that he only gets a portion of heals he complained. He knew nothing about anything. He only heard that he was a healer who couldn't heal himself. He heard he lost something and made an immediate reaction.
It's nothing but a skin deep reaction. It makes a huge difference if players give bonus heals out to allies which is in truth how the system really works. You are able to keep yourself alive effortlessly with only using 60% of your healing power so if that was the 100% point and people could heal allies at 140% effectiveness it would cause a completely different reaction.
"You heal yourself less than allies" compared to "You heal allies more than yourself."
Rewording it would reduce the complaints by far because players feel like they lost something when in fact the level of healing is more than enough to keep yourself alive outside of very, very, very specific situations.
The chloromancer likely is balanced by healing much less effectively than other classes, am I right. He has a small amount of healing power but it gets spread out throughout his allies? That's how that would work. For righteousness to go away the healing power would have to be reduced.
Because, again, you're saying the healing powers are weak because of one very specific problem in very specific situations.
So again, when you're not inside a boss fight or getting focus fired in PvP you're fine. Might be dodging a bit but overall no potion use and no deaths?
Taking away righteousness would be putting a band-aid on the issue which is how much clerics are pulling aggro and how much other classes are pulling aggro as well. Right now the main reason other classes are taking damage is because they are getting "splashed" due to protecting the cleric.
This leaves clerics feeling like a frantic piece of meat on a stick and other classes feeling like the main pressure is to kill things which have their back turned to them. The problem could be solved by simply making the cleric able to heal to the point that he laughs at everything attacking him.
The point beyond all this is to ask yourself...is that the strategy you want?
Are you saying that because that's the true issue or a psychological mind trick?
Personally me being the tank laughing at all the aggro which is ignoring the friends around them who died due to the control wizard and the man with the sword the size of his body isn't really provocative and thrilling. I'd rather have to start worrying about my allies a little more and worry about me a little less.
If the fight stops being a massive dog pile on top of the cleric the amount of healing due to righteousness would be a reduced (likely moot) issue.
With your repeat and increasingly antagonistic replies you are just garnering a reputation as a Neverwinter apologist. When you have one of the game's most knowledgeable players commenting on the class issues you should listen more and hold off responding with growing perception of arrogance.
There is nothing wrong with admitting that something is wrong - which with the cleric class it plainly is. Far better than continuing to spout head in the sand platitudes like some kind of Neverwinter Grima Wormtongue
"Mod 6. Oh my f****** god. It gutted the game pure and simple. And what wasn't gutted was messed up by the poorly thought out new level cap and equip. The game never recovered from that atrocity".
..............not this one then.............
And your youtube post is pointless, honestly. Look at it anyway YOU want to look at it, but it basically says you will NEVER heal yourself for as much as you can heal anyone else. It's not that I perceive it as a debuff, it is a debuff. Honestly man, I'm done with this conversation.
During CB4 I also rolled a guardian and "fell in love." It's just so much fun. GWF starts to use pots at lvl 4. If you aren't getting out of the red circles, you have already used 5 pots by the time you first see Protector's enclave at level 4. Level 5 you are already up past the 15 range if you get a bad round of stuns. (or lag spike.) PS: to clarify, I purposefully stood in the red circles to see what would happen. Playing correctly, you might need a pot if you opt to go all spinny in a red circle instead of stepping outside of it.
Guardian of the Nine:
GWF: 3 pots
Cleric: 2 HoT's and 4 AoE circles. in CB4. No healing in Open Beta.
Orcs:
GWF CB4: Pots... 80% of what's dropped. At least one per encounter until you figure out how to use your lifesteal swipe correctly.
GWF Open Beta: half of your pots that drop on the ground consumed. (I had a couple lag spikes, and a very bad skirmish. Otherwise, 35-40%)
Cleric CB4: Don't friggin' matter. 40 mobs at the same time in CB4, with an additional 2 trains put on me. Healed the idiots, killed their adds, and only then did I have to start standing outside the spawn area after another 10 spawned. 3 pots used. (I sold all my pots earlier as they weren't required.)
I just rolled my cleric for open beta so that I can do some farming and I'm already bored with him. Having had spent the money for the starting weapon, I'm already stuck having to kill mobs to get my level as I have already completed all of the quest lines available to me, and I'm in blackwater with 4 whole pieces of gear on my guy.
Stop whining. ^_^ And yes, I really do plan on leveling the cleric up. It's just so boring... PS: work on divinity cycling. Switch out of it for heals and aoe, and into it for damage burns. Should keep you with almost never running out of divinity, if they haven't changed it much since cb4.
Really? The very first boss in the entire game is your benchmark, and you have the audacity to tell people to stop whining? LOL
Get to CN, solo heal the whole zone, come back and report to me, sir.
(1) Clerics don't heal themselves well against heavy sustained damage unless they use potions.
(2) Clerics pull aaaaaall the aggro if they attempt to use most of their healing abilities.
(3) 80% or more of NW's 5-man boss fights revolve around the party (or rather, the cleric) getting swarmed by adds.
(4) Therefore the only viable endgame builds for clerics are AoE DPS builds (which seem to pull remarkably little threat for how facemelty they are) or mitigation-oriented tanky cleric builds (Foresight + Astral Seal + Sunburst/Forgemaster's/whatever + the overpowered-beyond-belief Astral Shield).
(5) This pretty much leads to clerics in PvE being forced to choose either to be overpowered (which both of those viable build paths currently are) or else to be very likely to get killed in every high-level boss fight (which is the end result of most other builds, including pretty much any build 50+ that doesn't use a Divine-mode Astral Shield CONSTANTLY).
This would seem to be a problem. If righteousness is going to stay around as an innate passive on the DC, then there needs to be a way for people who want to play an actual direct healer (not a barrier-protector thing) to avoid having ALL the aggro ALL the time in a group setting while still doing their job as healers.
Leave the cleritanking to the shield-oriented clerics, and balance them accordingly, but don't force nearly every cleric in the whole game to be the main tank of the party whether they want to be or not. :-/
The way the Lair of the Mad Dragon fight worked for me was I ignored the boss and actively went around trying to kill off adds. I completely ignored anyone who didn't come with me except the player actively tanking/dpsing the dragon - you stray, you die.
People usually get the message soon enough, and pretty soon you will either have a good add management group going. The dungeon is pretty straightforward after that.
Missing the point: I'm saying that I had to work 66% harder to stay fine than anyone else did. I kept myself topped up between fights...by massively overhealing everyone else: I was regularly using sunburst on cooldown whether we were in a fight or not, purely because regardless of whether everyone else was at 100% or not, I was consistently not. You're saying that the cleric should more than benefit from splash healing because they're healing 4 different people and getting splashback each time, when this is demonstrably not what people experience. AoE heals are where it's at, and that heals 4 people for 100% and one for...oh, 60%. I sometimes chugged potions in quiet between-fight moments simply because it saves time, and you can't expect a PUG to wait around while you sit and sunburst yourself a few times to get back to the point everyone else is at already.
Healing word, you might be able to make an argument for regarding backheals, but it's difficult to effectively use HW in dungeons because the targeting is terrible, you don't gain AP or DP from it unless you slot a passive for that AND you hit the right, damaged, target, and anyway: the healing is pretty awful too. And you can't stack the heal, only the duration: it's a a terrible spike heal. I'm quite surprised you seem to get so much out of it. Seriously: if you can play successfully with HW, I salute your skillz. Try ...almost any of the other skills, and you'll be incredible.
And again, while you could argue that firing four healing words at four allies nets you 4x healback (thus needed to be adjusted down to avoid OP-ness), firing healing words AT YOURSELF nets you just the nerfed healback. Using HW or soothing light directly on yourself is essentially a massive waste of healing power. It's much, much better to fire them at someone (anyone) else, since you're only going to get gimpy healback anyway: someone else might as well benefit from the full whack of healing.
No, they're two separate problems. One simply exacerbates the other. It's not that we can't heal ourselves because we're getting mobbed by everything, we can't heal ourselves effectively AND we're getting mobbed by everything. If we weren't getting mobbed by everything, we still wouldn't be able to heal ourselves effectively, but it would simply be less of a pressing problem. That doesn't mean it's not a problem, however.
Yes, it could. I think you're overstating the benefits of removing righteousness, though. If a 40% debuff is the critical difference between being "instant corpse" and "unstoppable godmonster", then there are serious, serious game balance issues. What it would do is make us feel slightly less helpless under pressure. Extra seconds of breathing space to let us chug more potions, at the very least.
Ultimately, you have to look at what people are using: astral shield, doesn't suffer from righteousness debuff, everyone uses it. Soothing light? Does suffer from the debuff, nobody uses it. It's terrible. Healing word? See above.
Basically: need to self heal? "Don't even bother looking at that skillbar, moron: it's potions all the way".
If people are altering their playstyle specifically to avoid all the problems righteousness generates (going into a dungeon? Take all the pots, ever, because you simply will not be able to self heal otherwise...and even if they fix the aggro, you still won't be able to self heal), then I'd say it's pretty good evidence that righteousness isn't a good idea. At the very best, it doesn't affect anyone negatively (because they simply don't use all the skills affected by it), it simply closes off a whole lot of options (because there are a lot of skills you simply won't use, because they're affected by it). No single factor should close off a whole range of skills.
And finally, to those who say "LOL ITS ALL ABOUT MAKING CLERICS USE TEH POTS", two points: one, in high end dungeons we chug pots like lapsed alcoholics, and two: using fewer potions is supposed to be one of the FEW perks of BEING a healer.
You do gimpy damage*, you always get blamed for everything that goes wrong, but by god you can keep yourself alive. In this game, we don't necessarily get that last bit.
*I've tried playing a GF on the side, and was astounded to discover, while fighting the many arrows tribe, that you can ONE-SHOT TRASH MOBS???? Massive damage output is not a cleric speciality, whereas survivability should be.
LOL can't be serious...? Please point out what that has to do with anything. Righteousness is a debuff. You think none would have noticed if it wasn't in plain sight? Dream on. Everyone would have noticed. If I had to agree with that video, it'd be that just because they added Righteousness, some people think that it's ok and doesn't affect them much.
I built myself to be a healer. I went Wis/Cha and my gear focus on crit/recovery. I'm squishy as hell and my heals on other people are great. The mobs wouldn't be such a huge problem if I could just, I don't know.... heal myself?
LOL...
wait you're serious? How far did you level your cleric?
And I won't begin to talk about how everyone is saying "Use AS!! The debuff doesn't affect it!" But then we have people complaining that it's to OP and needs a nerf. Seriously? We'd only really have FF. The class needs to be really look at again. Hopefully the changes in the big patch coming "soon" includes something for Clerics.
I think his whole post went to pot..........or pots
"Mod 6. Oh my f****** god. It gutted the game pure and simple. And what wasn't gutted was messed up by the poorly thought out new level cap and equip. The game never recovered from that atrocity".
..............not this one then.............
This is pretty much what I ended up doing. I announced to the group that they are expected to stay together, TIGHT together and kill adds, every add that spawns need to die immediately. That was the only group I went in with that succeeded (havent been back yet though)
P.S. this forum really, REALLY needs a like button, because there are so many ppl that make sense and I cant quote them just to say I agree *rolls eyes*
Sileste thanks for speaking my mind as well