Credit card? To get items and exp in casual game? You mad. NWO is simple as tetris with square blocks only. I think you will be shocked, but some people reached 60 in first day, lol.
Yea but you didn't get T2 four days after the game launched. Stop lying silly boy, you only look like a fool
...This is why the game is in Open Beta still (no one wants to hear that, I realize that)...
The day a company starts allowing for people to pay real money in their game and have no intentions on refunding any of it, is the day that game is no longer in ANY sort of beta. Open beta is a term they are using to cause justification.
This is NOT open beta, this is launch. You think we are going to receive a HUGE amount of players on the day they actually claim "launch"? I dont think so, imagine how many players have left already and spread the word about this loosely used, greatly abused term, open beta?
The day a company starts allowing for people to pay real money in their game and have no intentions on refunding any of it, is the day that game is no longer in ANY sort of beta. Open beta is a term they are using to cause justification.
This is NOT open beta, this is launch. You think we are going to receive a HUGE amount of players on the day they actually claim "launch"? I dont think so, imagine how many players have left already and spread the word about this loosely used, greatly abused term, open beta?
Please show me the rule in the internet manual where allowing transactions dictates if a game is in beta or not...
The day a company starts allowing for people to pay real money in their game and have no intentions on refunding any of it, is the day that game is no longer in ANY sort of beta.
With Kickstarter, Desura's Alpha Funding and now Valve/Steam's Early Access program, this view clashes with "what is". None of this is new, either. I played and paid for beta versions back in the mid 1990s already. Even games that are comparable to Neverwinter and that are also in beta, like Path of Exile or Warframe, sell virtual items, packages and access.
I understand that not everyone may agree with this, but PWE/Cryptic are not the first and certainly not the only developer/publisher taking this route. And why not? They are open about it, and it's a whole lot more honest than what plenty others companies do: where you buy a "release" version of a game and then have to wait for numerous patches before the game reaches release quality (and that's for single player games -- MMOs are never really anything but betas, because they are in constant development and they have patches and hotfixes all the time, even years after "release").
As I mentioned, "beta" refers to where a game is in the development cycle. It has nothing to do with the business side or whether it costs money. You don't even pay for the game here, just for "stuff" and services, and you keep that "stuff". There won't be a wipe.
some feats are broken and can not be used in this beta, however it costs 6 real life dollars to respec out of those feats once you've realized this.
that is a launched product.
No more wipes= launched product. call it whatever you will ,but the game is still live.
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iircMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 22Arc User
edited May 2013
Please no rollback..... I can't take anymore of losing in PvP for gear....lost back to back to back already hour after hour makes me feel like punching my computer screen....
I know coding a project the size of an MMO is difficult. I know that mistakes will get made. I am a forgiving person but it really seems like you simply don't have anyone in your studio that actually tests this software before you push it to the live servers...
So, if anyone is wondering here is a SS of the duping exploit:
Are you going to delete 7 more hours of legitimate players' work while people who have been exploiting/duping for weeks get to keep everything they were able to sock away before you finally opened your eyes and accepted what was going on?
if he dupes 99 stacks of enchants
why 1 stack is 72
obviously this is a screenshot of a guy who bot-farm chests with multiple accounts and sells em on 1 account
With Kickstarter, Desura's Alpha Funding and now Valve/Steam's Early Access program, this view clashes with "what is". None of this is new, either. I played and paid for beta versions back in the mid 1990s already. Even games that are comparable to Neverwinter and that are also in beta, like Path of Exile or Warframe, sell virtual items, packages and access.
I understand that not everyone may agree with this, but PWE/Cryptic are not the first and certainly not the only developer/publisher taking this route. And why not? They are open about it, and it's a whole lot more honest than what plenty others companies do: where you buy a "release" version of a game and then have to wait for numerous patches before the game reaches release quality (and that's for single player games -- MMOs are never really anything but betas, because they are in constant development and they have patches and hotfixes all the time, even years after "release").
As I mentioned, "beta" refers to where a game is in the development cycle. It has nothing to do with the business side or whether it costs money. You don't even pay for the game here, just for "stuff" and services, and you keep that "stuff". There won't be a wipe.
All very very true...sadly, we are dealing with Mob mentality, they only see what they want, nothing else matters.
I wonder is this one will be called Gemsplotation Sunday and will give us a mining hat (fashion) for firebird Friday and give us all a fire aura enchant....
but seriously if you do roll back again cryptic don't give free gifts as cool as free gifts are they are really just encouraging bad behavior and most people whine about them. what you COULD do is give a slight Discount/bonus to people entering zen cards/cash since the cards themselves aren't being exploited (I hope) this will reward people who are adding zen to the economy with real cash backing things up. and hurt the price point of gold sellers.
Also think about rotating some of the items that are being flooded, it might be time to bring out the next lockbox, bring out different dye packs and discontinue old ones, swap some companions/mounts out of the stores for different companions... this will add rarity back to the flooded items and will cause people to want to SINK more of their $$. you can always bring back this stuff later on.
and add more account wide services, account banks, maybe have the option to buy account horses single char for cheaper, and to buy companions/costume packs for the account. of course if you do this you should really give us a fashion outfit and mount bag like you have for companions, wow figured out a while back that if mounts/companions don't take up inventory people are much more likely to spend money to get a mount for every mood especially if there are mount titles, im sure your noticing this effect already with companions.
I only want to add one thing. Blizzard, and their game World of Warcraft, cant deal with exploiters and botters. How do you think, Cryptic, will be able to deal with it?
I mean Blizzard, has won billions of dollars these past 8 years, their team is huge in matters of numbers and experience, they have almost infinite resources , and they still can't deal with dupes(yes it exists you can buy it for 2k), bots (grinding, pvp etc all over the place), gold sellers , and other types of exploits(for example buying expansions or game time with gold earned by botting through chinese).
And we are talking about a 8 year game in its official form. And there are many other examples of mmos suffering from these. At least in Netherwinter, you dont have to pay anything to get an account or to gain access every month. Yes buying stuff with real money can give you a huge advantage in short terms, but in the long term you will be able to catch up. You even have the option to buy rl money currency (Zen) with ingame currency (AD).
Honestly the majority of gamers thoses days seems to be a bunch of crybabes and emo looking for a resaon to cry on forums , no matter the cause .I really hope there are gamers out there who actually play the game most of the time instead of this...
Exploiters and botters will always exist. You cant stop them. They get something in its final form, find a way to abuse it, sell the method in a private forum, and will make it public when they get enough money out of it.And yes they have years of experience to cover their trace, loundry the money, and do it again. By the time there are people willing to pay for a game, legally or not, there will be exploiters, deal with it.
True but those things on wow are more of a "clever use of game mechanics". That cryptic has put so much information client side is the problem. the only true dupe to exist in wow was back in vanilla when trade recieved was client side and you could bug the reporting by entering mara. after that they pulled pretty much everything from the client. That crypic hasnt even learnt that lesson is just asking for trouble. who fraking puts stack sizes client side ffs. or stamina gen clentside or wether you are blocking client side. just a joke really and it was asking for someone to stuff with it like they did with the infinite guard meter of GFs. my guess would be someone has figured out how to modify the stack size then how to carry that to the server. most likely through the buyback feature.
what i really hate is how thier "fixes" seems to just make more problems. eg putting stam and wether you are blocking server side and breaking my GFs main ability ffs
True but those things on wow are more of a "clever use of game mechanics". That cryptic has put so much information client side is the problem. the only true dupe to exist in wow was back in vanilla when trade recieved was client side and you could bug the reporting by entering mara. after that they pulled pretty much everything from the client. That crypic hasnt even learnt that lesson is just asking for trouble. who fraking puts stack sizes client side ffs. or stamina gen clentside or wether you are blocking client side. just a joke really and it was asking for someone to stuff with it like they did with the infinite guard meter of GFs. my guess would be someone has figured out how to modify the stack size then how to carry that to the server. most likely through the buyback feature.
what i really hate is how thier "fixes" seems to just make more problems. eg putting stam and wether you are blocking server side and breaking my GFs main ability ffs
so much rage atm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That's because they focus on how to make the game a cash cow before everything else. I mean the game isn't even finished yet, and they already have the cash shop up and running! To me that just shows where their priorities are, and it's not with any of us.
So many of the things they've done wrong are things that more experienced/competent developers never would have done. Client-side information is one of those things. I thought everyone learned this back in Diablo II and other online games out at that time.
If they wipe at the end of open beta and before actual launch, whether refunds or not; then sure, it's beta.
If there is no wipe, then there isn't a difference between an actual launch and this open beta beyond petty semantics. There would be no difference. The only thing calling it an open beta would do in that instance, is be an excuse for so many bugs.
Honestly this thread just keep reminding me of the Dilbert strip, "That's stupid. Then it must be beta."
Never said there wouldn't be issues with them not doing a refund. It's more just getting extraneous information out of the actual arguement. No wipe = not beta. Those claiming it must be beta because, "the game called it that," really is just being a trifling nitpicker. By that logic, we do not craft items in game; we Kraft them, because that's how the cheese in the supermarket spells it.
Hyperbole sure, but at least this example is made with the knowledge it is full of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
With Kickstarter, Desura's Alpha Funding and now Valve/Steam's Early Access program, this view clashes with "what is". None of this is new, either. I played and paid for beta versions back in the mid 1990s already. Even games that are comparable to Neverwinter and that are also in beta, like Path of Exile or Warframe, sell virtual items, packages and access.
I understand that not everyone may agree with this, but PWE/Cryptic are not the first and certainly not the only developer/publisher taking this route. And why not? They are open about it, and it's a whole lot more honest than what plenty others companies do: where you buy a "release" version of a game and then have to wait for numerous patches before the game reaches release quality (and that's for single player games -- MMOs are never really anything but betas, because they are in constant development and they have patches and hotfixes all the time, even years after "release").
As I mentioned, "beta" refers to where a game is in the development cycle. It has nothing to do with the business side or whether it costs money. You don't even pay for the game here, just for "stuff" and services, and you keep that "stuff". There won't be a wipe.
Even if it was conceded that this game was in a state of open beta, (I personally don't believe it qualifies as such) that doesn't change the fact that this setup is turning out to be a terrible way to test a game, if that is indeed their goal.
When you allow your players to spend their money on the game (not just investing in the development like a kickstarter program, but actually spending money on in-game items) with the understanding that those purchases will be permanent, then you become accountable to those people. Mistakes, bugs, and flaws in the game become liabilities, and your so-called "testers" have every right to start making demands (because you could, literally, be costing them money when you let economy-ruining exploits linger in the game.)
If you truly believe that the state of this game still qualifies as open beta, then you must ask yourself, is this any way to properly test a game? Is this a good way to recruit quality testers, and gain proper feedback about bugs and exploits? Is it beneficial be accountable to your testers as paying customers? Is it a good thing when gold selling sites are invading your game during a testing phase, encouraging people to quietly exploit and profit from bugs, rather than report them? I would argue an emphatic "No" on all counts.
-Travail.
Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
Comments
Nope, I got it 3 days after release, 2 days leveling and pvping to get gear, 1 day learning t2 dungeons and farming them without exploiting.
Amazing what you can do with a dedicated group of competent people.
Are you enjoying the open beta?
The day a company starts allowing for people to pay real money in their game and have no intentions on refunding any of it, is the day that game is no longer in ANY sort of beta. Open beta is a term they are using to cause justification.
This is NOT open beta, this is launch. You think we are going to receive a HUGE amount of players on the day they actually claim "launch"? I dont think so, imagine how many players have left already and spread the word about this loosely used, greatly abused term, open beta?
Please show me the rule in the internet manual where allowing transactions dictates if a game is in beta or not...
There is none you say ?
Welcome to Beta.
With Kickstarter, Desura's Alpha Funding and now Valve/Steam's Early Access program, this view clashes with "what is". None of this is new, either. I played and paid for beta versions back in the mid 1990s already. Even games that are comparable to Neverwinter and that are also in beta, like Path of Exile or Warframe, sell virtual items, packages and access.
I understand that not everyone may agree with this, but PWE/Cryptic are not the first and certainly not the only developer/publisher taking this route. And why not? They are open about it, and it's a whole lot more honest than what plenty others companies do: where you buy a "release" version of a game and then have to wait for numerous patches before the game reaches release quality (and that's for single player games -- MMOs are never really anything but betas, because they are in constant development and they have patches and hotfixes all the time, even years after "release").
As I mentioned, "beta" refers to where a game is in the development cycle. It has nothing to do with the business side or whether it costs money. You don't even pay for the game here, just for "stuff" and services, and you keep that "stuff". There won't be a wipe.
Sometimes there just isn't enough facepalm for some people.
how about this one then:
some feats are broken and can not be used in this beta, however it costs 6 real life dollars to respec out of those feats once you've realized this.
that is a launched product.
No more wipes= launched product. call it whatever you will ,but the game is still live.
if he dupes 99 stacks of enchants
why 1 stack is 72
obviously this is a screenshot of a guy who bot-farm chests with multiple accounts and sells em on 1 account
Makes me sad because it was one of my main profit streams. =[
Dead on my friend.
All very very true...sadly, we are dealing with Mob mentality, they only see what they want, nothing else matters.
but seriously if you do roll back again cryptic don't give free gifts as cool as free gifts are they are really just encouraging bad behavior and most people whine about them. what you COULD do is give a slight Discount/bonus to people entering zen cards/cash since the cards themselves aren't being exploited (I hope) this will reward people who are adding zen to the economy with real cash backing things up. and hurt the price point of gold sellers.
Also think about rotating some of the items that are being flooded, it might be time to bring out the next lockbox, bring out different dye packs and discontinue old ones, swap some companions/mounts out of the stores for different companions... this will add rarity back to the flooded items and will cause people to want to SINK more of their $$. you can always bring back this stuff later on.
and add more account wide services, account banks, maybe have the option to buy account horses single char for cheaper, and to buy companions/costume packs for the account. of course if you do this you should really give us a fashion outfit and mount bag like you have for companions, wow figured out a while back that if mounts/companions don't take up inventory people are much more likely to spend money to get a mount for every mood especially if there are mount titles, im sure your noticing this effect already with companions.
True but those things on wow are more of a "clever use of game mechanics". That cryptic has put so much information client side is the problem. the only true dupe to exist in wow was back in vanilla when trade recieved was client side and you could bug the reporting by entering mara. after that they pulled pretty much everything from the client. That crypic hasnt even learnt that lesson is just asking for trouble. who fraking puts stack sizes client side ffs. or stamina gen clentside or wether you are blocking client side. just a joke really and it was asking for someone to stuff with it like they did with the infinite guard meter of GFs. my guess would be someone has figured out how to modify the stack size then how to carry that to the server. most likely through the buyback feature.
what i really hate is how thier "fixes" seems to just make more problems. eg putting stam and wether you are blocking server side and breaking my GFs main ability ffs
so much rage atm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That's because they focus on how to make the game a cash cow before everything else. I mean the game isn't even finished yet, and they already have the cash shop up and running! To me that just shows where their priorities are, and it's not with any of us.
So many of the things they've done wrong are things that more experienced/competent developers never would have done. Client-side information is one of those things. I thought everyone learned this back in Diablo II and other online games out at that time.
If there is no wipe, then there isn't a difference between an actual launch and this open beta beyond petty semantics. There would be no difference. The only thing calling it an open beta would do in that instance, is be an excuse for so many bugs.
Honestly this thread just keep reminding me of the Dilbert strip, "That's stupid. Then it must be beta."
If they were to wipe without refunds, there would be a mass exodus and a lawsuit (or 3..or more) filed. If they don't wipe, its all the same anyways.
Hyperbole sure, but at least this example is made with the knowledge it is full of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
Even if it was conceded that this game was in a state of open beta, (I personally don't believe it qualifies as such) that doesn't change the fact that this setup is turning out to be a terrible way to test a game, if that is indeed their goal.
When you allow your players to spend their money on the game (not just investing in the development like a kickstarter program, but actually spending money on in-game items) with the understanding that those purchases will be permanent, then you become accountable to those people. Mistakes, bugs, and flaws in the game become liabilities, and your so-called "testers" have every right to start making demands (because you could, literally, be costing them money when you let economy-ruining exploits linger in the game.)
If you truly believe that the state of this game still qualifies as open beta, then you must ask yourself, is this any way to properly test a game? Is this a good way to recruit quality testers, and gain proper feedback about bugs and exploits? Is it beneficial be accountable to your testers as paying customers? Is it a good thing when gold selling sites are invading your game during a testing phase, encouraging people to quietly exploit and profit from bugs, rather than report them? I would argue an emphatic "No" on all counts.
-Travail.