I need it to sell it and buy better items, you need it to wear it and get stronger, somoene else need it to sell it to the vendor
Again, if that's what "need" actually meant then there would only be two buttons: roll and pass.
Unfortunately the system is broken in such a way that effectively there are only two buttons -- unless your party happens to consist of idealists, critical thinkers, and decent humans. And one look at the forum should tell you how difficult it is to roll that particular 20.
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iamdoctordeathMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
It is working as intended. More loot into AH, more AD needed to buy, more Zen sold. I don't know why this is so hard for people to grasp. This game is designed so that PWE makes as much money as possible. You think Bind on Equip on everything was an accident?
This right here- this wasn't unintentional, Cryptic knows what they're doing, and what they're doing is making money.
Unfortunately the system is broken in such a way that effectively there are only two buttons -- unless your party happens to consist of idealists, critical thinkers, and decent humans. And one look at the forum should tell you how difficult it is to roll that particular 20.
I'm not sure "critical thinkers" and "decent humans" would act how you seem to expect them to act. Having all-need-all is a tactic that is both stable and fair; "playing nice" is unstable, and due to that instability, quickly becomes unfair for anyone who continues to adhere to it.
That said, I think Need/Greed/Pass needs to go altogether. It's a crappy system that never really worked the way players want it to work.
That said, I think Need/Greed/Pass needs to go altogether. It's a crappy system that never really worked the way players want it to work.
On the contrary, it works exactly as it should if the need button is made available only when it makes sense. You can't make people cool, but you can prevent them from acting on their uncool impulses.
A completely different system where everyone gets their own drops is also good, and known to be good because it works just fine in other games. In fact I believe the basis for this already exists in the game; when a potion or scroll drops for me I don't have to roll on it.
I don't care which solution they go with because they both work. I just want them to pick one already and make it happen.
On the contrary, it works exactly as it should if the need button is made available only when it makes sense. You can't make people cool, but you can prevent them from acting on their uncool impulses.
I mostly agree; the following is just a nitpick. If you put that limitation in, why bother with need/greed/pass at all? Why not just drop class-specific loot in peoples' inventories and call it done? Once you throw in enough restrictions to force-fit the system to what you want, you get so far removed from NGP that you might as well replace it with something simpler.
But, yes, hopefully Cryptic genuinely "gets it" and comes up with a solution that works to everyone's satisfaction. We'll see.
Purple items sell value 1 copper. That way ninjas wont take to sell.
People who have the item equiped roll need all the time. You call them out about it and they say its for a friend blah blah blah.
I am sick of going on runs and people ninjaing. It happen 4 times today to me in groups.
The worst thing they think its funny.
If you want this to happen +1 it.
you can't blame a kitchen knife if someone killed by other using it, same goes for the system here. devs already done good things by applying this sistem not just simply an auto-roll on everything. if you can use the gear and you want to use it, choose Need. but, if you want the gear for sell or alt, choose Greed, it will only roll if no people choose Need. you dont like pass. simple rule, simple system, only not every people is "good guys".
look, if you hate so much meeting ninja-looters just go with peoples you know or you trust, queue is completely random, means you can met an "angel" or met a "demon".
Another thread where Cryptic is being blamed for poor player behavior.
How do you stop ninja looting? Start making friends. It's an MMO. It's meant to be a social experience. If you are grouped with trustworthy people, then ninja looting isn't a problem.
I understand this isn't always practical, I myself will pug sometimes. But I accept the risk that there is inevitably going to be someone in the party who thinks they need everything. In actuality, this isn't always the case; some of the pugs have been refreshingly fair and sane. But I accept that it is a possibility.
BoP is another dumb idea in a string of dumb ideas this community keeps putting forth on how to fix what they deem as broken. BoP isn't going to stop a greedy selfish player from rolling on an item that you could use. They'll roll on it just to vendor it. They'll roll on it just to see if you get angry about it.
The fact that these items are BoE gives everyone in the game a secondary avenue to get the items they want (as do Seals). If it's not dropping for you, or you just can't seem to win the roll, then you can eventually get it off the exchange or a seal vendor (depending on the item in question, I realize Seal vendors probably don't have everything that could drop). Making these things BoP will make it harder for you to get what you want, not easier.
If you need an example of how dumb an idea BoP is, consider the 'Doomguide's Duty' quest in Neverdeath. It was once a quest that could be repeated for the same initial reward - a profession pack. So many people came on these forums and complained that players who were repeating this quest were selling their items from the packs on the exchange and it was 'ruining the economy'. At the time, a Master level profession asset was going for about 40k-ish in AD on my shard. Rare tools were a little bit more, 60k or so. Once the quest was changed so as not to reward the profession pack more than once; prices tripled. They have since dropped, but are still nowhere near as low as they once were. Complaining about a plentiful, easy to obtain resource made the assets harder to procure.
And that is all making items BoP will do - make the items more difficult for each and every one of us to obtain.
The accountants have nothing to do with this mechanic. It isn't meant to drive you to buy AD. The driver to buy Zen are the big ticket items; particularly lockbox keys. The fact is, you have a game with no box cost, no sub fee, and a mechanic whereby you can earn anything in the cash shop simply by playing the game - and yet, there's this vocal minority of players that find this offensive and deem the developers to be money grubbing cash grabbers. I guess they are supposed to give you entitled brats everything for free, then?
Another thread where Cryptic is being blamed for poor player behavior.
That's not correct. Cryptic is being "blamed" for a poorly implemented party loot system that enables and even encourages poor player behavior rather than preventing it. You can't make people cool but you can stop them from acting uncool. This has been proven in other games which have solved the problem. No new rocket science is required.
People will do whatever the game lets them get away with. And so the solution is to simply remove the option of being a jerk when it comes to party loot. It doesn't matter if people are jerks if the system doesn't let them do jerky things with buttons.
Dont you think if Cryptic implement a BoP on Need, this will make people to buy more AD cause there wount be enough items in the AH and less amound of AD in characters? Eighter that or you are just greedy people. Think about it.
BoP is a stupid mechanic. Also, the NGP system needs to just go away. Auto-loot allocation, and everything BoE, or my preference Bind to Account upon Equipping.
Stop applying other MMOs 'decency rules' to every other MMO. They do not apply in Neverwinter. If endgame gear was BoP, that alone would've kept me from every playing this game.
Purple items sell value 1 copper. That way ninjas wont take to sell.
People who have the item equiped roll need all the time. You call them out about it and they say its for a friend blah blah blah.
I am sick of going on runs and people ninjaing. It happen 4 times today to me in groups.
The worst thing they think its funny.
If you want this to happen +1 it.
When an item pops up it says your class cant use this it should only let you greed or pass as you clearly don't need the item if your class cant use it. simple fix to a big problem.
How about to try to set rules for the party BEFORE you enter the dungeon. If you say nothing, people will do as they do. I've started to roll need on every Green crafting item and every Blue item just because everyone else does it, especially if a friend of mine is in the group and needs it. /shrug
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berinimaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 28Arc User
edited May 2013
Actually I like the drops to be sellable. I personally think this is an important part of the economy in this game. However I would be totally okay if you could only greed on drops that are not usable for your class.
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kineticv3Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
This is the best 'fix' I can think of for this problem. The only downside is an occasional accidental need roll that will happen when a player is down and mashes shift+1 to call for help in a panic. This is better than the 'only need on class items' in my opinion because of this scenario that happens to me all the freaking time:
Cleric has T2 helm > Same T2 Cleric helm drops > Cleric rolls need.
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kineticv3Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Actually I like the drops to be sellable. I personally think this is an important part of the economy in this game. However I would be totally okay if you could only greed on drops that are not usable for your class.
Items would still be sell-able if you clicked 'greed'
However the only downside is what if someone genuinely hits need on accident lol.
making it tradeable with party members for a time would fix that, kinda like wow does, and I really liked that aspect of fixing butterfingers and the accidental need.
Really implement vote kick option asap, <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> just kick people after last boss and take loot for them self.
And is there report for those things?
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kineticv3Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I would love to try and solo 60 content it will be a good challange.I have a guild to go in runs with and we all know what to do when needed, greed or need it all benefits the guild right?
How do you wear a crafting item or a runestone? everyone roll need on them right? You cant judge people by their needs, thats why its BoE not BoP. Its all about perspective. I need it to sell it and buy better items, you need it to wear it and get stronger, somoene else need it to sell it to the vendor. Why judging people by their needs? Isnt that discrimination???
This right here is the perfect example of the worst kind of people you find in F2P games....sadly is more common on f2p models to find ppl like this than to find regular people
The people defending the loot system have most likely mistaken need for greed
Who's defending the loot system? You've got people who want to scrap it altogether for something else (like me), and people who want to patch the bejeezuz out of it until it "works." Ironically, the patchers are driving towards a system where one has to wonder why we'd even need buttons for "Need / Greed / Pass" at all.
Then there are the people who say not to roll with pick-up groups if you don't like the system as is, but even that's not so much "defending" it as telling you how to deal with it if it really bothers you.
Comments
Again, if that's what "need" actually meant then there would only be two buttons: roll and pass.
Unfortunately the system is broken in such a way that effectively there are only two buttons -- unless your party happens to consist of idealists, critical thinkers, and decent humans. And one look at the forum should tell you how difficult it is to roll that particular 20.
This right here- this wasn't unintentional, Cryptic knows what they're doing, and what they're doing is making money.
Oh boy, are they ever making money.
That said, I think Need/Greed/Pass needs to go altogether. It's a crappy system that never really worked the way players want it to work.
The gorilla formerly known as Kolikos
On the contrary, it works exactly as it should if the need button is made available only when it makes sense. You can't make people cool, but you can prevent them from acting on their uncool impulses.
A completely different system where everyone gets their own drops is also good, and known to be good because it works just fine in other games. In fact I believe the basis for this already exists in the game; when a potion or scroll drops for me I don't have to roll on it.
I don't care which solution they go with because they both work. I just want them to pick one already and make it happen.
But, yes, hopefully Cryptic genuinely "gets it" and comes up with a solution that works to everyone's satisfaction. We'll see.
The gorilla formerly known as Kolikos
you can't blame a kitchen knife if someone killed by other using it, same goes for the system here. devs already done good things by applying this sistem not just simply an auto-roll on everything. if you can use the gear and you want to use it, choose Need. but, if you want the gear for sell or alt, choose Greed, it will only roll if no people choose Need. you dont like pass. simple rule, simple system, only not every people is "good guys".
look, if you hate so much meeting ninja-looters just go with peoples you know or you trust, queue is completely random, means you can met an "angel" or met a "demon".
How do you stop ninja looting? Start making friends. It's an MMO. It's meant to be a social experience. If you are grouped with trustworthy people, then ninja looting isn't a problem.
I understand this isn't always practical, I myself will pug sometimes. But I accept the risk that there is inevitably going to be someone in the party who thinks they need everything. In actuality, this isn't always the case; some of the pugs have been refreshingly fair and sane. But I accept that it is a possibility.
BoP is another dumb idea in a string of dumb ideas this community keeps putting forth on how to fix what they deem as broken. BoP isn't going to stop a greedy selfish player from rolling on an item that you could use. They'll roll on it just to vendor it. They'll roll on it just to see if you get angry about it.
The fact that these items are BoE gives everyone in the game a secondary avenue to get the items they want (as do Seals). If it's not dropping for you, or you just can't seem to win the roll, then you can eventually get it off the exchange or a seal vendor (depending on the item in question, I realize Seal vendors probably don't have everything that could drop). Making these things BoP will make it harder for you to get what you want, not easier.
If you need an example of how dumb an idea BoP is, consider the 'Doomguide's Duty' quest in Neverdeath. It was once a quest that could be repeated for the same initial reward - a profession pack. So many people came on these forums and complained that players who were repeating this quest were selling their items from the packs on the exchange and it was 'ruining the economy'. At the time, a Master level profession asset was going for about 40k-ish in AD on my shard. Rare tools were a little bit more, 60k or so. Once the quest was changed so as not to reward the profession pack more than once; prices tripled. They have since dropped, but are still nowhere near as low as they once were. Complaining about a plentiful, easy to obtain resource made the assets harder to procure.
And that is all making items BoP will do - make the items more difficult for each and every one of us to obtain.
The accountants have nothing to do with this mechanic. It isn't meant to drive you to buy AD. The driver to buy Zen are the big ticket items; particularly lockbox keys. The fact is, you have a game with no box cost, no sub fee, and a mechanic whereby you can earn anything in the cash shop simply by playing the game - and yet, there's this vocal minority of players that find this offensive and deem the developers to be money grubbing cash grabbers. I guess they are supposed to give you entitled brats everything for free, then?
That's not correct. Cryptic is being "blamed" for a poorly implemented party loot system that enables and even encourages poor player behavior rather than preventing it. You can't make people cool but you can stop them from acting uncool. This has been proven in other games which have solved the problem. No new rocket science is required.
People will do whatever the game lets them get away with. And so the solution is to simply remove the option of being a jerk when it comes to party loot. It doesn't matter if people are jerks if the system doesn't let them do jerky things with buttons.
Stop applying other MMOs 'decency rules' to every other MMO. They do not apply in Neverwinter. If endgame gear was BoP, that alone would've kept me from every playing this game.
When an item pops up it says your class cant use this it should only let you greed or pass as you clearly don't need the item if your class cant use it. simple fix to a big problem.
This is the best 'fix' I can think of for this problem. The only downside is an occasional accidental need roll that will happen when a player is down and mashes shift+1 to call for help in a panic. This is better than the 'only need on class items' in my opinion because of this scenario that happens to me all the freaking time:
Cleric has T2 helm > Same T2 Cleric helm drops > Cleric rolls need.
Items would still be sell-able if you clicked 'greed'
making it tradeable with party members for a time would fix that, kinda like wow does, and I really liked that aspect of fixing butterfingers and the accidental need.
And is there report for those things?
Fixed for accuracy
Just bustin' your balls :P
This right here is the perfect example of the worst kind of people you find in F2P games....sadly is more common on f2p models to find ppl like this than to find regular people
wtf thats just stupid, then you won't make any AD selling items if all items are gonna be BOP
and also thats how PWE makes money
btw run it with a guild or friends and you wont run into <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> anymore
That is a really amazing idea.
Anyone wanting to sell the item HAS to roll greed.
I think if an item is class only and it isn't your class you should only be able to greed it as well, just to limit accidental/dumb rolls.
Then there are the people who say not to roll with pick-up groups if you don't like the system as is, but even that's not so much "defending" it as telling you how to deal with it if it really bothers you.
So I ask again, who's defending it, exactly?
The gorilla formerly known as Kolikos