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Best in slot T2 set
sphinx963
Member Posts: 2 Arc User
Hello, I m wondering what's the best T2 set for CW (thraumaturge here).
I was hesitating between the magelord set and the weaver.
Why magelord ?
2 pieces bonus +450 power
4 pieces bonus 900 recovery if you (hit or cast ?) a spell on a target who has more than 75% of his HP. Let's say +900 recovery all the time or most of the time during fights.
I think the power is the best stat for the class w/e the paragon you choose so it should be the best set.
Why weaver ?
2 pieces bonus +450 crit
4 pieces bonus : best buff in game (+113 life steal if you cast a cc spell or +5% crit severity for your group member around the monster hit by the spell and if you stack the both buffs on an ally, they are doubbled.)
Crit is the 2nd best stat for this paragon way, Idk what you think for other ways.
I guess there is somekind of a limit for the stat where going further is useless (like going for 12000 crit ) because of the degressive thing.
What do you think ?
Does anyone knows about the limit of the stats for a CW ?
I was hesitating between the magelord set and the weaver.
Why magelord ?
2 pieces bonus +450 power
4 pieces bonus 900 recovery if you (hit or cast ?) a spell on a target who has more than 75% of his HP. Let's say +900 recovery all the time or most of the time during fights.
I think the power is the best stat for the class w/e the paragon you choose so it should be the best set.
Why weaver ?
2 pieces bonus +450 crit
4 pieces bonus : best buff in game (+113 life steal if you cast a cc spell or +5% crit severity for your group member around the monster hit by the spell and if you stack the both buffs on an ally, they are doubbled.)
Crit is the 2nd best stat for this paragon way, Idk what you think for other ways.
I guess there is somekind of a limit for the stat where going further is useless (like going for 12000 crit ) because of the degressive thing.
What do you think ?
Does anyone knows about the limit of the stats for a CW ?
Post edited by sphinx963 on
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Comments
The set bonus increases my Recovery percentage by around 4% which doesn't feel like a big difference in fights at all.
I am planning on switching to Shadow weavers set because I use Eye of the Storm as a passive and correct me if I'm wrong you get more Action points if your criting constantly.So id take the crit over Recovery because of that.
The Set bonus for shadow weavers replaces the Regeneration on Magelord's with life steal which is (IMO) better because i am constantly active in combat not sitting around waiting for my HP to regenerate.Id much rather have a stat save my life in a combat situation than have it do something when I'm just sort of sitting around, i guess that's personal preference.
And to top it off 9% crit severity total does increase DMG output significantly especially with Eye of the Storm and all the crit on the Shadow Weaver's Gear.
It also buffs team mates ~
Shadow Weaver gives you and your team better (and/or more consistent) survivability, both because of the Lifesteal set-bonus buff and because Shadow Weaver items don't waste stat points on Deflection. (Defense is better than Deflection.)
High Vizier gives your team better damage output, via its set-bonus debuff. Unfortunately, the corresponding Defense buff doesn't appear to work consistently. (Or if you prefer, it's much easier to stack the debuff than it is to stack the Defense buff.)
Personally I don't think you can go wrong with either one.
Power is ok, no where at best. It has basically no diminish return but it has a low benefit at the first place. and as CW if u want more burst u should go for crit and Vorpal enchant, which makes u fall into Shadow Weaver Set.
end game if u manage to farm a stone u can get basically all the important stats high enuf depending on how ur build is with any set ..
so far the shadow weaver set bonus seem to be better ;/
<---not really good player here i guess and quite a **** but thats just my opinion^^.
I prefer High Vizier, but either set could be considered "BIS" for CW.
Join Essence of Aggression: PVP-ing Hard Since Beta!
lately I find the 4-set bonuses not really much helping.
In the end if you would fully understand stats and what they do, their diminishing returns and what feats gives
best synergy to your build, the full set bonuses really doesnt fully matter, as long as they help you do your job well in dungeons, where PowerS and equipment are consistently being changed/sideboarded depending on the situation. Sticking on one set/build is good but not great. As you progress in the end game, it really is fun if you can change your stats/equipment depending on what dungeon/pvp/gaunt/skirmish you are in. Getting all those needed equipment and enchantments is your goal to still playing the game without being bored.
to tell you, for my overall usual setup I am using Champion Mage Cap, Champion Mage tunic, Reinforced Shadow Weaver gloves, shadow weaver slippers and Castle Never main and off hand
which gives me +450 Crit, +900 recovery, additional ArP and HP just for the 2-set bonuses. Just with the Ion Stone companion alone without buffs and campfire, with the other equipment I have @12k GS I get
3975 Power
2832 critical
2540 Armor Penetration (best value you can get)
3,600 recovery
1,577 defense
rest is meh.
These are the stats I aimed for, which gives me 9,600 attack rating.
I read alot in this forum, especially Grimah's and copticone's thread, Kerrovitarra's replies in every thread, Kripparian's videos in youtube, and many more to let me finally decide on this build.
This is usually what I use in Castle Never and Frozen Heart. If I am in Spellplague I use my high vizier and go full survivablity(Burning light ancients rings and etc) since you will ledge off foes almost as always and you need better defensives and full arcane PowerS instead of damaging stuff. I go full shadow weaver on karrundax, (high crit and defense overall, damage and running), in PVP/GG, I go Champion Mage + Magelord. I have decent Power, def, hp, armor pen and recovery without the help of my ion stone for crits(I dont rely on crits in PvP)
There is no best set. There is only the best YOU can be for every situation. Always remember that.
I attached my usual set-up for you to check the stats I said.
and, I am full arcane PowerS user. Ergo, you can already tell, I am a renegade. I spam ArcSings and abuse fast Arcane Stack generation to my own advantage from Entangling Force on mastery (helps Shield cd, push, steal time and ray of enfeeble effects, etc from feats and ability tooltips by itself)
MeyvnHart
Lvl 60 Control Wizard (Tiefling) - Spellstorm Mage [Thauma-DPS]
Philippines' <TANGINA MO PO KOYA> Guild
Mindflayer Server
THAT is a really good build... I recommend this entirely. I applaud you sir and I am working towards this goal myself.
What is your opinion on best in slot Weapon Enchantment and Armor Enchantment for a CW?
Thanks for your post earlier, you can also check these threads for further info and knowledge
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?301761-Calculating-stats-and-their-effects
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?385321-Grimah-s-Comprehensive-Wizard-guide
To answer your question
Armor Enchant - Soulforged, I think there's nothing better although I havent used any since I do not have much enchants to use for all the armors im switching. Some say Negation is good too.
Weapon Enchant - really Depends on your taste, but I convinced myself in using PlagueFire. Vorpal's Crit severity is huge, and Lightning's lightning proc is great too. Since I find Plaguefire average in all aspects, I chose it. I also notice the 3x stack buff is working now. Since I do stat switching in both PVEs and PvPs I dont rely on critical that often, I really decided to go plaguefire. This also procs your Storm spell class feature, which is a staple in my opinion together with eye of the storm.
Having Vorpal and lightning is good as well. Although lightning generates alot of threat(aggro). If you want to go all necrotic Lifedrinker is also a choice, but PF, Vorp and lightning are 3 top choices.
MeyvnHart
Lvl 60 Control Wizard (Tiefling) - Spellstorm Mage [Thauma-DPS]
Philippines' <TANGINA MO PO KOYA> Guild
Mindflayer Server
Don't be too impressed by how big his post is. It is thoroughly misinformed. Anyone who is not wearing a full set (High Vizier, more specifically) is clueless. Also, anyone who follows Krip's advice from the BETA (how long did he play, two weeks?) and applies it to the game as it is now is also clueless. This guy is both. I can guarantee you that if you stick around and learn a few things about the current state of the game and how High Vizier functions, you will regret following his advice. During the beta there was a best set (Shadow Weaver) because it was bugged in the favor of the user. Currently, after the Shadow Weaver nerfs, there is also still a best set, and it isn't even arguable if you look at the math and compare runs with different sets. Trying to maximize stats at the cost of going full set is never going to work well; your party needs you to debuff monsters/people, not simply buff your own stats. Not mentioning, you can get all the soft caps with a full set if you farm efficiently and get the rank 7-8s. Getting an additional +450 is worthless compared to the set bonus. The High Vizier debuff is also going to give you more damage than the +450 for yourself alone, but it doesn't just do that, it helps everyone in your party.
I am never ceased to be amazed by the number of bitter and angry players out there...
He is maximizing the usefulness of every one of his statistics based upon data gathered by other players. According to you, that makes him stupid. Ahhh... the interwebs.
You might want to read that there long post where he said that he does use a full HV set.
They are pretty close to one another tbh... I still prefer the setup posted by Noojstr. I don't mind the slightly lower recovery stat.
Yeah but he's using two parts from two different sets. I prefer a bit more recovery/defence anyway but that's me.
Those are pretty stats, no doubt. And you're right that Shadow Weaver has a better selection (or at least a more focused selection) of stats than High Vizier. No question.
But speaking as someone who's spent an embarrassing amount of time lately sorting through the AH and writing spreadsheets to compare different gear loadouts, I think you're overstating the case just a little: there's plenty of room (in enchant slots, on an augment pet) to raise the critical offensive stats to at or near the levels in your picture with High Vizier. We're talking about a relatively small difference in the grand scheme of things, at least PvE-wise: High Vizier "wastes" about 600 points on Deflection, and about the same amount on Regeneration. By contrast, Shadow Weaver puts those points into Defense and Critical Strike. To put that into perspective, an augment pet equipped with epic gear and rank 6 enchants/runestones'll give you something like 2,100 stat points.
And although it's true that Defense and Critical Strike are more generally appealing to all CW builds and playstyles than Deflection and Regeneration, the latter two stats are by no means useless. Even though I generally take a dim view of Deflection on a CW, there are (perhaps fringe) cases wherein a high-Defense build would get more out of Deflection than he would out of extra Defense -- and Regen? Having a smattering of Regen is never a bad thing.
The bottom line is that if you're willing to put some thought into your gear loadout, you can cover the basic "in-demand" CW stats with any set. Even a T1 set, frankly. The real question is whether (or how easily) you can also add helpful survivability-flavored supplements. I imagine most of the diffused-stat CWs you reference were trying a different approach than the one you feel is optimal. Or they just didn't care to optimize their gear loadout.
Are you going for a personal record? How many threads are you trolling calling people angry and bitter?! lol.
Uhm, Kripps' is using HV...(-_-), the thing I got from his play is the recharge speed increase feats he used and PowerS he utilized, not the full build lol.. I also use high vizier in some cases. I do not contest it's usefulness, rather I find the setup I posted bringing greater damage into the table.
@ 9,600 attack rating, @ easy 5 arcane stacks, with feat of masterful Arcane Theft(renegade), with 2540 Arp, with Plaguefire stacks and Chaotic Nexus debuff. My Steal time and Ray of Enfeeblement deal very effective critical damage. Do I still need the extra debuff from HV? No. Its not just debuffing everything. Its doing both debuffing, and killing, and helping your TRs and GWFs with the boss/elites aside from dealing with mobs. I'd rather see mobs die than just being debuffed and let your party do the finishing for you. You think high vizier is the "DEBUFF" everybody needs? no.
Calling my opinion misinformed and clueless just because I don't use a set is (-_-)
If I am clueless I may not be dealing 5m on karrundax where basically killing and not cliffthrowing is done. So calling me clueless is harsh.
this is my last reply to this quote, because I don't want to further explain something to a person who is closed minded to check the opinion for facts to begin with, if you don't agree, fine. I don't give a thing.
MeyvnHart
Lvl 60 Control Wizard (Tiefling) - Spellstorm Mage [Thauma-DPS]
Philippines' <TANGINA MO PO KOYA> Guild
Mindflayer Server
Also what noojster say is true do u really need the debuff from HV that much??
if ur armor pene is high enuf (2k+) which u can do with shadow weaver, +ROE or if u got feated COI,then the debuff from HV no seem so much usefull.
Again depends on how u built ur toon,but HV Debuff is not for every CW that BIG bonus ;/
i not play for long this game so never really got into testing stuff but i say what i see from an amateur's prespective^^.
With all due respect, that really doesn't make any sense. How is debuffing not contributing to more dps and killing things faster. Debuff is a flat damage increase, just like ANY offensive stat you would stack. In fact it is better since it is not affected by diminishing return. The debuff either stacks or it doesnt. I personally do not feel some extra stats added close to the soft cap is anywhere near the debuff the HV set provides or any debuff provided by feats, powers or plaguefire. Also knowing that the set bonus stacks with another CW's HV set, it would be unwise to opt to use anything else if you can manage it.
It is not about showing a screenshot where you are 1st on the chart. Many CWs in different specs, different gear, can do that. It is about how fast the group gets from Entrance to Chest.
I think I know what the issue here is. You are going by what the HV debuff states in the tooltip. Please ignore that. It does not lower the Defense stat like Armor Penet, does. It is a flat mitigation % decrease that stacks on top of ANY and ALL Defense stat reductions. So even when you manage to reduce the target's defense to 0. The HV debuff will still bring that down in the negative. So it is never a wasted debuff.
so u can drop down to negative didnt know that.
so at -1000 defence u do 20% more damage? it works like this?
Right. Moreover, a screenshot displaying his CW as the first-place damage dealer only reinforces the counterpoint, because High Vizier's debuff enhances the entire team's damage output. So High Vizier won't necessarily help the CW outstrip his teammates in damage output, but the object of the game isn't to lead the damage chart.
Likewise, just because High Vizier doesn't contribute directly to the CW's damage output relative to his teammates', it doesn't follow that a High-Vizier-equipped CW outputs less damage than another CW using a different set. If both hypothetical CWs are in two different teams, one that benefits from the High Vizier debuff and another that doesn't, then in fact -- and all else being equal -- the CW with High Vizier will output (albeit perhaps slightly) more damage.
Where alternative gear loadouts (most notably Shadow Weaver) shine is in survivability (and/or minor utility benefits, like a higher Recovery stat). Noojster is entirely correct to point out that there are certain situations in which damage output is a secondary consideration -- situations in which most encounters end up getting punted off a cliff, for example. But is the existence of those situations worth an entire alternate gear loadout? That's a matter of personal preference.
So anyway, there are legitimate reasons to prefer a non-High-Vizier gear loadout, but none of them has anything to do with damage output. High Vizier offers the best offensive boost. Shadow Weaver offers a lesser offensive boost (in the form of a team-wide critical-severity buff), but combines it with a not-inconsiderable defensive advantage. Personally I'm a little torn about which set is "better" overall.
This debate is as old as MMORPGs.