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Knock backs on dungeon mobs is NOT an exploit.

monarrchmonarrch Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 164 Bounty Hunter
edited May 2013 in PvE Discussion
1. Almost every dungeon has cliffs, ledges, sludge pits with no walls to stop you or mobs from being hurled into them. They have high walk ways and ramps with no rails to stop you from falling off with mobs in the middle of them. Now you don't think this is by design?!

2. Several of the boss fights are specifically made for pushing mass groups of mobs into poison lakes, fire or sludge pits, A'Drx'l the Aboleth Overseer anyone? You cannot push bosses or cc them however. You think this isn't by design.

3. You think knock backs were only meant for PVP?

I like personally like to put up Singularity near a ledge IF it is available or feasible, pull the mobs to it the push them off the ledge to their deaths but this is simply using your skills wisely. How is that an exploit? This e mobs, the ones that have knock backs, can just as easily send me flying to my death as well, and they have.

It is so self evident that the devs designed these dungeons with the intent to allow players to use all of their abilities to some extent is a good thing. Yet some of you, because it gives players some kind of advantage on some of these encounters, it has to be an exploit? Really?

Bet the devs won't do a thing because it was designed that way. Bet.
Post edited by monarrch on
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Comments

  • keobiaakeobiaa Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Who is saying it's an exploit, when you knock mobs off sometimes you see in the combat log "Your massive damage hits [mob] for [mobs health]". That's no accident.
  • failpatchfailpatch Member Posts: 27 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Proof or your not really doing this. I don't believe they would allow such a bug to exist!!! You Sir are trolling us!!!
  • xethxxethx Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    monarrch wrote: »
    can just as easily send me flying to my death as well, and they have.

    +1 This.

    I only started knocking mobs off cliffs after the 3rd or 4th time I had it happen to me. There is no way (out side of spending money on a res scroll) for a party member to raise a character that's been thrown off the cliff to their deaths. - Beat the mobs to it, throw them off and see how they like it! It's an intelligent tactic, just the same as a dwarf hiding behind a half-orc as to be harder to target.
  • morbicmorbic Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    However, I'm not climbing down in the lava pit to help you claim any loot....
  • pednickpednick Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    failpatch wrote: »
    Proof or your not really doing this. I don't believe they would allow such a bug to exist!!! You Sir are trolling us!!!

    No bug, game feature.
    Be a Leet D00D, can't think of something smart? Always blame the economy.
  • monarrchmonarrch Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 164 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    morbic wrote: »
    However, I'm not climbing down in the lava pit to help you claim any loot....

    Fair enough.
  • s3pts3pt Member Posts: 177 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    It's not an exploit, it's just bad game design. But then, having 1 boss fight mechanic for all fights (boss plus adds) is also bad game design, can't really blame people for removing the tedium.
  • monarrchmonarrch Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 164 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    s3pt wrote: »
    It's not an exploit, it's just bad game design. But then, having 1 boss fight mechanic for all fights (boss plus adds) is also bad game design, can't really blame people for removing the tedium.

    It is very tedious. I really think all the trash mobs should be cut by a bit to be honest, especially if they stopped the mass knock backs.
  • inflamezlolinflamezlol Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 56
    edited May 2013
    s3pt wrote: »
    It's not an exploit, it's just bad game design. But then, having 1 boss fight mechanic for all fights (boss plus adds) is also bad game design, can't really blame people for removing the tedium.
    We in the hood refer to this as clever use of game mechanics.
    inflameziinew.gif
  • scrangosscrangos Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I dont think its an exploit since it does seem like a game mechanic but it is overpowered like the cleric shield stacking. Needs toning down so its still useful but doesnt trivialize or eliminate other roles.
  • liquidc86liquidc86 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    its a game mechanic to make gwf useless :)
    nothing to see here
  • rapticorrapticor Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,078 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I'm not sure I've seen anyone calling it an exploit. I can (and have) get knocked off ledges by enemies why can't we do the same to them.
  • vf1veritechvf1veritech Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    So knocking adds over the invisible wall on the last boss fight in castle never isn't an exploit? If they meant for all the adds to be black holed and knocked over the side for this fight, why would they put up not only rails, but also an invisible wall? Sounds like an exploit to me.
  • rapticorrapticor Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,078 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Then you need to be more specific. I was speaking generally. Knocking mobs off obvious ledges is not an exploit.
  • some1inatreesome1inatree Member Posts: 29 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I totally agree that in areas where the mobs spawn near cliffs or on aerial walkways, throwing them to their deaths is pretty standard D&D tactics. This, as in D&D, means you cannot loot their corpses however.

    Luring enemies from a room back down a corridor to a pit, just so you can knock them into it, however does come across as rather cheesy and exploitative of the AI.

    So it really is context-specific.
  • captndafcaptndaf Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 68
    edited May 2013
    Eh, if you can be bothered to kite a pack of mobs 2 rooms away and then knock them off the edge, for no loot, I'd probably agree with cheesey but not exploitive. It's not like those mobs saw you doing the same thing to the other four packs you've already sent plummeting to their doom.
    "Duct tape is like the force; it has a light side and a dark side and it holds the universe together."
  • knoteskadknoteskad Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    There shouldn't be a way to just insta kill stuff though.

    So they should change this to either just damage mobs for a set amount, and/or delay mobs, like knocking them off a wall would let em jump back up.

    Mainly because it pretty much invalidates a whole class lol.
  • lyokiralyokira Member Posts: 882 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I think they just need to make more enemies which are resistant/immune to knockback, AND enemies which are smart enough to try and counter that trick, by simply knocking players down the hole first.
  • lisau1974lisau1974 Member Posts: 100
    edited May 2013
    Pushing them off is not. I agree. Making them suicide should be.
  • daxtax86daxtax86 Member Posts: 141 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    Some fights are designed around this, as mentioned the final boss in Spellplague being one for sure. However the amount of trash you can knock off and not having to worry about inbetween bosses is probably not intended.
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  • realpureshadowrealpureshadow Member Posts: 90
    edited May 2013
    If only GWF had big aoe knockbacks then people would want to take them to dungeons. I guess since most their attack don't have any extra effect to them then they must do tons of damage.
  • itheryelitheryel Member Posts: 335 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    Why did they only release 3 characters?.... :(
    Petram Sacram - I am no devine cleric, i am a Gaurdian fighter in disguise with better threat and supportive spells -
  • kerlaakerlaa Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    lyokira wrote: »
    I think they just need to make more enemies which are resistant/immune to knockback, AND enemies which are smart enough to try and counter that trick, by simply knocking players down the hole first.


    Which would then make CW useless since a large population of the larger mobs are immune to chill. So if 90% of mobs are immune to knockbacks and chill they wouldn't leave CW much to do.

    I still consider it good use of tactics and environmental awareness. I am always looking for narrow tunnel ways to bottom the mobs up so AOE hits more or ledges or traps to run them thru on solo missions.
  • dominemesisdominemesis Member Posts: 269 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I totally agree that in areas where the mobs spawn near cliffs or on aerial walkways, throwing them to their deaths is pretty standard D&D tactics. This, as in D&D, means you cannot loot their corpses however.

    Luring enemies from a room back down a corridor to a pit, just so you can knock them into it, however does come across as rather cheesy and exploitative of the AI.

    So it really is context-specific.

    No that would be tactics, WoW has really brainwashed everyone who has ever played an MMO into thinking that if you use tactics or traps in any way, or engage a monster doing anything other than face tanking it you are cheating. If it was a problem they'd put the mobs on tiny *** leashes or make them "evade" out like WoW did. This game leaves room for tactics and alternate methods for fighting instead of funneling you into one way of doing everything. A sad number of complaints on these forums stem from WoW expectation and brainwashing since that is all many of these players know.
  • morbicmorbic Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I'd bug anything where there was an invisible wall that is supposed to keep CC-able adds in play or where a boss could be killed in this method. However, if there are no invisible walls and players are just as likely to be knocked outta the area, then it is a tactic worth investigating if you as a group don't care about all the loot on those mobs.
    As far as making GWFs useless in a group with CWs... If a CW lets the GWF know ahead of time, they agree on the tactic, and they know the CW is taking care of non-controllable adds in general then there shouldn't be any issues. Lets the GWF focus on the non-controllable ones and protect the cleric.
  • robertthebardrobertthebard Member Posts: 543 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Did you hear that mobs???? If you knock me off one more ledge, I'm reporting you for exploiting and getting you banned!!! Of course, so far, I've only had it happen once, and that's because I tried to be slick, and missed... Then I got knocked off a ledge onto some big *** spikes and killed. So tell me, why did they put those big *** spikes down there? The fall was very definitely surviveable, but those spikes weren't.
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  • unah1unah1 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 127 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    Thank you for posting this.

    However it would be super awesome if we could get an official word on this because I am sick of everyone being so paranoid all the time.
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  • elyrielleelyrielle Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Can't imagine it's an exploit to kill mobs by knocking them off cliffs or into fatal pools of whatever.

    Can believe it is if people are somehow knocking them through walls.
  • thesuperdthesuperd Member Posts: 26 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    The real problem, as has been mentioned before, is the poor design of dungeon boss fights. Every single one is just "fairly easy guy with massive HP pool + dozens of adds".
  • pizzarazzipizzarazzi Banned Users Posts: 46
    edited May 2013
    i find it lame

    people keep talking about spellplague you can actually 3 man it if you have a competent wizard i am not sure this is itended
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