test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Mounts in PvP
mutelunatic
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
I know there was a discussion about this on the General Forums but those move so quickly and its not really the place to talk about pvp mostly because you get the "this is why I don't want pvp in my dnd game" arguments which don't add anything to the reality of the game we play or the discussion at hand.
I believe that mounts need to change. Currently people with an epic mount have 2 main advantages. First they can get from 2 different points of the map faster than people w/out an epic mount. Second they are much harder to knock off the mount.
The first advantage plays heavily into the gametype that we play on namely domination. Moving from point to point to attack or defend is practically the name of the game. Having extra speed obviously helps quite a bit. Additionally reinforcements through respawns come in faster with the faster mounts.
The second advantage gives people flexibility. A regular 50% mount takes 5 hits to knock someone off of it. Giving a fairly sizable knockdown cc at the same time. Most classes have the tools to take someone down while the rider runs past through dots and fast ranged hits. The higher tier mounts take much more to the point that the only reliable way to take someone off an epic mount is a hard cc. This limits the classes that can knock these riders off to ones that can reliably provide a hard cc from range namely the CW. The rest of the time an epic mount rider can blithely run through the enemy team. Additionally this can be used to draw a hard cc that could have been used at a much more opportune time but was used just to keep a spider rider from capping a back point.
I believe in our current map and gameplay setup mounts should not be allowed at all. This slows down the gameplay and puts a much higher emphasis on positioning and proper movement. This also favors certain classes. DC and GF are very strong in pvp due to their ability to hold a point against all odds. Their biggest weakness is mobility. They are a brick wall. Having mounts in pvp basically nullifies this weakness. In playing my GWF I've found his mobility to be great in the 10-20 bracket. Go in do some damage and the pop determination and draw people to him as he sprints for a side point. Having mountless pvp brings parity to the playing field as well as keeping open out of the box style thinking and strategies. It may be worthwhile to spec a rogue for mobility, stealth, and speed because they can get where they are needed faster. Currently with mounts there is no real point to doing so. Just spec to do as much damage as fast as possible and the jump on your 110% mount to do it again.
If at some point the maps open up to where the battlefields are much larger normalize all mounts to the basic speed and durability namely 50% and 5 hits for a knockdown for these larger maps. This allows the extra speed to get around where you want but doesn't let you ride through a team with no regard to incoming attacks.
TL/DR: Allowing epic mounts vs normal mounts gives a large advantage in our gametype. No mounts at all allows for teamwork, positioning, and mobility rather than pure damage specs.
I believe that mounts need to change. Currently people with an epic mount have 2 main advantages. First they can get from 2 different points of the map faster than people w/out an epic mount. Second they are much harder to knock off the mount.
The first advantage plays heavily into the gametype that we play on namely domination. Moving from point to point to attack or defend is practically the name of the game. Having extra speed obviously helps quite a bit. Additionally reinforcements through respawns come in faster with the faster mounts.
The second advantage gives people flexibility. A regular 50% mount takes 5 hits to knock someone off of it. Giving a fairly sizable knockdown cc at the same time. Most classes have the tools to take someone down while the rider runs past through dots and fast ranged hits. The higher tier mounts take much more to the point that the only reliable way to take someone off an epic mount is a hard cc. This limits the classes that can knock these riders off to ones that can reliably provide a hard cc from range namely the CW. The rest of the time an epic mount rider can blithely run through the enemy team. Additionally this can be used to draw a hard cc that could have been used at a much more opportune time but was used just to keep a spider rider from capping a back point.
I believe in our current map and gameplay setup mounts should not be allowed at all. This slows down the gameplay and puts a much higher emphasis on positioning and proper movement. This also favors certain classes. DC and GF are very strong in pvp due to their ability to hold a point against all odds. Their biggest weakness is mobility. They are a brick wall. Having mounts in pvp basically nullifies this weakness. In playing my GWF I've found his mobility to be great in the 10-20 bracket. Go in do some damage and the pop determination and draw people to him as he sprints for a side point. Having mountless pvp brings parity to the playing field as well as keeping open out of the box style thinking and strategies. It may be worthwhile to spec a rogue for mobility, stealth, and speed because they can get where they are needed faster. Currently with mounts there is no real point to doing so. Just spec to do as much damage as fast as possible and the jump on your 110% mount to do it again.
If at some point the maps open up to where the battlefields are much larger normalize all mounts to the basic speed and durability namely 50% and 5 hits for a knockdown for these larger maps. This allows the extra speed to get around where you want but doesn't let you ride through a team with no regard to incoming attacks.
TL/DR: Allowing epic mounts vs normal mounts gives a large advantage in our gametype. No mounts at all allows for teamwork, positioning, and mobility rather than pure damage specs.
Post edited by mutelunatic on
0
Comments
And dont start about what they not cheap.
Mounts are fine in PvP really, although I could live without them too. Also there should be some money grabs in the game to let it succeed. Mounts are a good and reasonable one, and the advantage really is not that great. I've played a few games with my PC gamer mount just to try it out, and only truly annoying bit is that you can not outrun better mount, but chasing is waste of resources anyway, so not a big deal.
Gear brackets for level 60 pvp is also a must.
Gear based matchmaker would be nice to have, but brackets would only cause lot of minmaxing to get the top end of a bracket, would mess up parties with different scores, and would easily make too much different matchmaker queues to be worth it. I'd rather see matchmaker to calculate team GS and try to find near equal team to fight against it. But again, dozens more important things before that to make, I'm afraid. PvP stat tracking would be a good start, win/loss, kdr, avg. score would be good start. Per class played ofcourse, so would also serve as a balancing tool.
Mount scaling I disagree, it does not make that big difference, and to be successful F2P, game needs to have minor P2W elements IMO. Mounts are just that, epic enchantments are something I'm not so sure of.
I'm in favor of mount speed normalization in PvP, and the mount speed would make a difference if everything else was equal, but everything else is never equal. Aspects like group set up, gear levels and strategic understanding have a major impact, much more so than the mount speed.
The distances between nodes are very short, so the impact of mount speed is relatively minor. A premade with "slow" mounts will probably always win against a PUG with T3 mounts. Most games are not lost by a tiny margin, but usually by a large chunk of points and that isn't because of the mount speed. I don't disagree with the suggestion to normalize mount speed in PvP, but I do feel that the impact of mounts on the outcome is not as strong as suggested.
Inferno Nightmares are down to 800k AD at the moment, which makes them fairly affordable even for free players (if you are competitive, you are probably already in a place where you have means to obtain items that sell).
I'm 100% free to play player, haven't spent a single $ on the game and I won't. 30 minutes ago I got myself epic horse.
So in your face P2W crowd. Just play the game, because you don't have something instantly doesn't mean its P2W, mount is just as any other piece of gear and believe it or not, its AFFORDABLE BY F2P PLAYERS with a clue.
I just feel there could be so much more interesting strategy without mounts. Getting your GF onto midpoint first is pretty huge. He stalls and creates a lot of space for the rest of your team and having 2 or more CWs on the point is a giant middle finger to anyone wanting to make an approach. As is, it's a 4-man cluster**** at the beginning of every round with nearly everyone running their horses in and going at it. I would suggest the designers look for inspiration in TF2 where class and range dynamics are more fleshed out, to allow for interesting openings and battlefields throughout the match.
Read up.
F2P players can get the mount too. Just learn to AH, you don't need everything instantly, especially in mmo.
Join Essence of Aggression: PVP-ing Hard Since Beta!
PWE and Cryptic do not want your PVP to be fair. The goal of having you stare at horse rumps disappearing into the distance is that you too should want a horse of your own. Not only that but that you should want the fastest horse on the field and be willing to pay for it.
I feel the OP is absolutely correct in that PVP should be a contest of skill between players to see who can play their class the best, who can produce the best teamwork and who has put in the most work. It should be an even field. And if one thinks about it in that way it seems silly that some players should have mounts or be able to buy the best gear with cash. That would seem to leech the “fair” right out of it. Why would developers do that? Surely they have failed in the thought process somewhere.
But turn your thinking to the idea of making money off people playing the game. You want to have an underclass, a group that has to suffer the indignity of defeat while the tools of their victors are just a few dollars away. Show them what crushed them, force them to be on the map with spenders decked in the latest gear on the fastest horses. Make them buy or let them reap the only punishment PVP has to offer, defeat.
Yes, certainly skill still plays a big part and there will be some people who can murder spenders in little more than a nightshirt and pointy shoes. But that person has to work to stay that good and the spenders do not. Let him feel the inequity of having to stay sharp while the spenders get to goof around.
It is a system designed to extract money from the players. Trying to imagine it as a fair system will not help you. If you can find a way to make it fair and still psychologically coerce participants into spending real money, Then you may have a shot but not with the code-monkeys who might stumble across this thread. You would have to go to the headquarters with that.
Because its not PVP…
Its PVPWE
Yes, and you can technically walk across continental United States on foot. Doesn't make it a practical or reasonable option. You don't need everything instantly, but there's a reasonable limit to how long you should have to grind to get things.
Yep, you need 800k AD to buy tier3 mount right now. You can farm full glory set in 2 days, and sell it in AH. I'd expect anything between 1-3 weeks most to have tier3 mount. Totally unreasonable? I think not.