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pls buff up GWF and GF already

warpetwarpet Member Posts: 1,969 Arc User
edited May 2013 in PvE Discussion
i got kicked few times ,would u pls fix them ... and when ppl ask for one more team member they dont wont to take me even ppl from guild :( ,everyone only takes dc,cw and tr
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    iamzelpexiamzelpex Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 29 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    We need more high single target damage!
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    warpetwarpet Member Posts: 1,969 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    iamzelpex wrote: »
    We need more high single target damage!
    aoe damage is joke to :( since dc and cw can 1 shot ads thx to knockback
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    mewbreymewbrey Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 517 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    I run tier 2 groups with both a Guardian and a Weapon-fighter, I am starting to feel sorry for them as I see them become more and more demoralized each day. I hope they do some major class balance patch fixing all the classes, while I know GF & GWF need some real polish many classes have broken feats, tooltips that state completely incorrect information and much more.

    I understand that they slapped the label open beta on it, but they've done very little to address this issue, and hearing that people are kicking GWF and GF from groups is rather disturbing. They have a fairly good community on their hands or at least a good few in the community that have made some fairly solid suggestion on how to improve the two classes.

    Hope that we see some changes to these classes in the near future, as a cleric I feel sorry for both the GF and GWF and I would never kick them from my party, talk about adding salt to the wound.
    ~*~ Foundry missions: Stronghold Branax : Goblin menace : Forwyn crypts ~*~
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    avangerisavangeris Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 40
    edited May 2013
    I get 1 shooted by gwf in pvp and u want to buff em ? STFU
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    oghieroghier Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 84
    edited May 2013
    GF's are currently a burden on their party, and that should be a priority fix. To make GF's useful in T2's, three things need to happen, and they *all* need to happen at about the same time:

    - Increase GF AoE Threat Capability
    - Reduce the extent to which dual astral shields stack
    - Reduce healing threat

    I play a cleric. If the only action is to reduce astral shield stacking (which is what I fear), I'll just stop playing the cleric. The combination of a self-healing nerf and over-the-top heal threat means the clerics are the tanks. Each cleric basically needs the other cleric to keep them up. Without dual shields, and without any useful tanking classes, healing is just too stressful to be worth the bother.

    As to GWF's, I don't think they're in as bad a spot. I'd rather see another CW, TR or DC in their spot in my group, but at least endgame GWF's do bring pretty good AoE damage to the party. They're not nearly as bad off as the 'tanks', who simply have not been given the tools to do their job.
    - Snit (Cleric, Dragon Server)
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    drunkiindrunkiin Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    we need more Clerics

    DTDfTXb.png
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    yasha00yasha00 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 479 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    In pvp GF are beasts, I have been two shot by some and most can hold a point against 3 people for long enough for backup to arrive. GWFs are no slouch either. I would hope that any pve buff (if needed) is nerfed in pvp.
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    vaichanavaichana Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 91
    edited May 2013
    oghier wrote: »
    GF's are currently a burden on their party.

    This makes me lol.
    Yes please buff GF and GWF more, need to be able to do 80% of total damage in istance on my own!
    Seriously I can't wait to see the double astral cheese nerfed or removed. It's a completely unnecessary crutch, and it will be fun to see 90% of the community back to farming cloak tower because they are completely clueless and lost without it.
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    wtfsrslylolwtfsrslylol Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 4
    edited May 2013
    I agree Vaichana, we've a group running castle never in our guild and by the time the second boss is down usually the GF has more damage done than the rogue. if GF's are buffed then I'd he'd even be out damaging me which would be a bit upsetting to see the tank as the highest damage bringer in a party. It isn't that GF's need a buff, people just need to learn what they're doing and how to build something.
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    malganysxmalganysx Member Posts: 25 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    yeah... fix the trhreat for GF and improve the GWF!!! single target DMG!!! is just a joke!!! CW can do much better!!! TR have OP damage and GWF is just sensless... i want to see a big Fix/Buff for GWF or goodbye this is sensless... GWF is too weak in pvp is just not balanced... if i dont see a real try for balancig this melee plate class... bha... i will try rift guys ;) 12 will be free to play :D XP
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    yasha00yasha00 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 479 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    malganysx wrote: »
    yeah... fix the trhreat for GF and improve the GWF!!! single target DMG!!! is just a joke!!! CW can do much better!!! TR have OP damage and GWF is just sensless... i want to see a big Fix/Buff for GWF or goodbye this is sensless... GWF is too weak in pvp is just not balanced... if i dont see a real try for balancig this melee plate class... bha... i will try rift guys ;) 12 will be free to play :D XP

    I will write a disjointed stream of thought QQ post and threaten to quit unless you respond to my incoherent demands!

    (at least that's how I interpreted the post...)
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    xeromus20xeromus20 Member Posts: 43 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I feel like it's more the mob pushing and double astral that's causing GWFs to be unwelcome in t2s than the class being significantly weaker than the 3 desirables. AoE wise I believe GWF has the highest sustained damage on 3+ targets, and decent enough 1v1.. Their bleeds could do with a bit of a buff amongst a few small things, but overall I don't think it's too terrible of a class..

    GF I don't have much experience with because I rarely get to see any even in t1 content, but generating and holding aggro seems to be nigh on impossible after a mob gets hit once.

    Overall imo GWF could use a few numbers tweaks, but nothing like an entire class overhaul etc, but GF needs a lot more attention than a GWF


    tl;dr - lategame mechanics screw gwf over, game design screws gf over
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    realr3sistancerealr3sistance Member Posts: 191 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    I actually think there could be more interesting ways to go about balancing these classes than the obvious ways...

    I think GWF should get an ability/feat that causes enemy to take additional damage from all incoming attacks from all sources and increases armour penetration for GWF's following hits/attack. Perhaps something does 2% additional damage per stack and stacks up to 5 for a total of 10% additional damage as well as causing GWFs attacks to similar get a 2% armour penetration again stacking up to 5. This isn't enough to bring GWF up to balance but it'd bring them a good way up towards being balanced.

    As for GF, they need more AoE threat and I would say the class needs a good CC too but what would be good is if GF could choose an ally in their party that give protection status too (say 20% less damage taken) but that the GF takes that damage instead. It'd help with the situation that cleric currently has meaning most clerics play only in pairs end-game. For AoE threat I think GF should get a ground smash attack that knocks down/slows all enemy in range, a bit like Divine "Break the Spirit" encounter that Cleric has but raising threat instead of lowering it.

    Lastly remove righteousness off of cleric so that again clerics don't feel like they have to play in pairs! And I'm totally not saying that because I play cleric...
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    vaichanavaichana Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 91
    edited May 2013
    Stop wishing that GF were Protection Warriors.
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    etherealjetherealj Member Posts: 1,091 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    oghier wrote: »
    GF's are currently a burden on their party, and that should be a priority fix. To make GF's useful in T2's, three things need to happen, and they *all* need to happen at about the same time:

    - Increase GF AoE Threat Capability
    - Reduce the extent to which dual astral shields stack
    - Reduce healing threat

    I play a cleric. If the only action is to reduce astral shield stacking (which is what I fear), I'll just stop playing the cleric. The combination of a self-healing nerf and over-the-top heal threat means the clerics are the tanks. Each cleric basically needs the other cleric to keep them up. Without dual shields, and without any useful tanking classes, healing is just too stressful to be worth the bother.

    As to GWF's, I don't think they're in as bad a spot. I'd rather see another CW, TR or DC in their spot in my group, but at least endgame GWF's do bring pretty good AoE damage to the party. They're not nearly as bad off as the 'tanks', who simply have not been given the tools to do their job.

    If you want to actually make GF able to tank trash groups, they need some more damage mitigation and maybe some knockback reduction. I'm not sure I would even want to tank 3-5 Spikers and 2 golems at the same time.

    Fixing Knight's Valor would be a good thing too.
    Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
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    etherealjetherealj Member Posts: 1,091 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    vaichana wrote: »
    Stop wishing that GF were Protection Warriors.

    Until GWF and GF are worth as much or more to a group then a second DC, TR, or CW the classes are terrible.
    Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
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    cavalierkillercavalierkiller Member Posts: 32 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Both classes need serious help and need it fast. Up GF damage mitigation, improve aoe threat, kill the double cleric circle and give the GF a group buff ability instead. At least GF is fun to play solo...decent damage both single and group and ok mitigation for small groups beating on you.

    GWF needs so much help, I don't know where to even begin. All of our damage is terrible, single, small group, large group, it is all a joke. Even if our AOE damage was best in game, our mitigation is terrible. Playing a GWF is just one long downward spiral. Need large groups to get any real DPS, but DPS still so low you cant kill the large groups of mobs fast enough to compensate for poor damage mitigation, chug chug chug pots. The only way GWF is fun to play is to level through PvP until you are near the top level for a quest area, then do the quests. That way your higher level can compensate for the low DPS we have.

    Only way you can get into a dungeon with either GF or GWF is if the group wants to give you a pity run.
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    todesfaelletodesfaelle Member Posts: 1,370 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    GF only needs AoE threat in my opinion. That, or they are probably planning up a Paragon Path or class that specializes in AoE threats. They are beefy enough as they are.

    GWF however is in serious, serious need of buffing. They should remove the "damage is slightly reduced for each enemy you hit after the first" mechanic of their attacks and instead make them deal significantly more damage the more enemies they hit with each attack. This should help loads when fighting adds and give them a clear role in dungeon runs. And better damage mitigation/higher defense if possible. I heard they used to be OP back in closed beta. Would be great to see them become OP again. :)

    Once all classes are overpowered in their own little ways and are able to specialize in a specific field in PVP/PVE, that's balance IMO.
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    chinzw85chinzw85 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 18 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    So you're asking to buff the GWF with the hp/def of the GF and the single target dmg of the TR... lol.
    Then someone else will come here and cry about that, then another will cry about something else.
    You cant have it all, +dmg = -def, -def = +dmg, its always been like that, in every single game.
    You just got the in-between class, deal with it.
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    churchilligcchurchilligc Member Posts: 175 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    I am pretty much sold on GWF needing a full revert to BW3 to be viable.

    I don't think the knocking adds off is a huge contribution to why it doesn't have a purpose, but rather how the game is designed.

    In a trash pull, a TR can fight one big target and still do more damage than a GWF even if we are hitting 7 mobs at a time with WMS and Slam active and 2 CW's holding the mobs in one spot. I feel this is more of a problem with GWF being bad than TR being too good. The sort of Veteran enemies (Ash Disciples in Karrundax for example) take so little damage from us that if you go to fight one you are basically waiting for the TR to show up and let your group move to the next set of enemies.

    In a boss fight, you do it one of two ways:

    Kill the boss first, kite/cc adds

    Kill big adds first, then boss/adds

    In either of these situations, our damage is so laughable that we are essentially being carried by any group that takes us. Most epic dungeons come out to a TR being 2:1 ahead, a CW being 1.25-1.5 ahead, and then DC's being .75-.5 behind. However, a DC can also be ahead if they spec no shield and go pure DPS.

    I've made a TR in the interim, maybe they'll fix GWF but more than likely not. I've got all my GWF gear and enchants now, just need weapon from Dracholich which I'll be farming with my TR.
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    navvie69navvie69 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    its really demoralizing to be considered useless by every group for being a GWF, guess the best thing to do at the moment is to reroll TR or CW until they fix this bull
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    demonsunderdemonsunder Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 243 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    I play a 60, 12k GF a 10k CW and a 10k DC, Cleared All t2's and Castle Never.

    GF's need Knights valor fixed
    Cleric's need Astral not to stack
    Cw's need Cake.

    Fixed. On my GF I can tank, and tank well I can hold aggro from 12l geared rogues and Cw's how? I'm full tank and I know how the threat works. I will never top damage but I will take 3 - 4 times more damage than the rest of my group. This is how it should be. On my cleric I can tank as well because of astral stacking but this limits my mobility I have to run/kite and hope my party cc's the 900 adds killing me. On my CW I melt faces and CC, Cant tank can't heal (well apart from Magic missile) Working as intended.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Oceanic Neverwinter guild http://19thbattalion.com/home
    Breadbasket NW-DTYGYBRF2
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    hirokittiehirokittie Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I have quit my 60 GWF. I feel like I was holding back my group in PVP and in PVE. It's really sad because I love the class.
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    oghieroghier Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 84
    edited May 2013
    Fixed. On my GF I can tank, and tank well I can hold aggro from 12l geared rogues and Cw's how?

    Holding aggro against the TR's and the CW's is not usually an issue in the groups I have seen. It's holding aggro against the cleric. The TR may have one add pissed at him. The cleric has the other 44203595335 chasing him around ;)
    - Snit (Cleric, Dragon Server)
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    demonsunderdemonsunder Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 243 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    oghier wrote: »
    Holding aggro against the TR's and the CW's is not usually an issue in the groups I have seen. It's holding aggro against the cleric. The TR may have one add pissed at him. The cleric has the other 44203595335 chasing him around ;)

    THiers a little hotfix you can do, Tell cleric to equip sooth before entering dungeon, enter dungeon, unequip and reequip armour threat fixed. its weird but it works
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Oceanic Neverwinter guild http://19thbattalion.com/home
    Breadbasket NW-DTYGYBRF2
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    oghieroghier Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 84
    edited May 2013
    we've a group running castle never in our guild and by the time the second boss is down usually the GF has more damage done than the rogue.

    If your GF is built for DPS and doing more damage than your rogue, it's possible that you have a really, really good player behind the keyboard of one toon, and not so much for the other. I can't believe that the class designs are such that GF's are better DPS than a dedicated striker class.

    Then again, there are plenty of oddities about class balance here.
    - Snit (Cleric, Dragon Server)
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    demonsunderdemonsunder Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 243 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    oghier wrote: »
    If your GF is built for DPS and doing more damage than your rogue, it's possible that you have a really, really good player behind the keyboard of one toon, and not so much for the other. I can't believe that the class designs are such that GF's are better DPS than a dedicated striker class.

    Then again, there are plenty of oddities about class balance here.

    27k Power GF.. DPS I have it. Stalwart 4/4 + Feats + 100% power feat
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Oceanic Neverwinter guild http://19thbattalion.com/home
    Breadbasket NW-DTYGYBRF2
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    supjeremiahsupjeremiah Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 569 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    27k Power GF.. DPS I have it. Stalwart 4/4 + Feats + 100% power feat

    Please SS this 27k power. I call BS.
    Envy - 60 Guardian Fighter - Mindflayer

    Wrath - 60 Great Weapon Fighter - Mindflayer

    Envy's Guardian Fighter DPS Conqueror Guide

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    demonsunderdemonsunder Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 243 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    Please SS this 27k power. I call BS.

    Will do, but its easy to get Hp build + HP items (rings/belt Castle never gear) Plus Feats (100% power buff from full guard feat, stacks with the stalwart buff) will post SS when I get off work.

    Edit, also 15% from CW (Chaos Magic) magic Missile stacks with total.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Oceanic Neverwinter guild http://19thbattalion.com/home
    Breadbasket NW-DTYGYBRF2
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    supjeremiahsupjeremiah Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 569 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    Will do, but its easy to get Hp build + HP items (rings/belt Castle never gear) Plus Feats (100% power buff from full guard feat, stacks with the stalwart buff) will post SS when I get off work.

    Edit, also 15% from CW (Chaos Magic) magic Missile stacks with total.

    Except for the part where Reckless attacker doesn't effect bonuses gained from outside of your own gear.
    Envy - 60 Guardian Fighter - Mindflayer

    Wrath - 60 Great Weapon Fighter - Mindflayer

    Envy's Guardian Fighter DPS Conqueror Guide

    Youtube Channel

    http://www.twitch.tv/supjeremiah
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