Technically there are ways to eliminate gold farmers, but practically all of them involves removing any sort of currency-based economy, so...
Indeed. Which is an unpopular idea. Less money from the company and also it irritates the player base as well. In fact, not even just currency. They'd have to remove trade period. Remove currency and then items act as currency (see d2). Sellers will then farm said items to use as bargaining chips. In D2 you can go to third party websites and buy the best gear in the game.
Indeed. Which is an unpopular idea. Less money from the company and also it irritates the player base as well. In fact, not even just currency. They'd have to remove trade period. Remove currency and then items act as currency (see d2). Sellers will then farm said items to use as bargaining chips. In D2 you can go to third party websites and buy the best gear in the game.
Not really, so long as there's no consistent single item to act as currency. Though admittedly "gearfarmers" can sell gear directly, but at that point it becomes impractical for the average person who presumably (granted assumption) prefers the straightforwardness of a universal currency to get whatever they want after. (the more savvy would presumably know the full risks of using said gearfarmers)
Then again, this would require itemization to be designed as such right from the start, so is not really applicable to NW regardless.
steppenkatMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
No one is selling cats currently, at least at the Cat-astrophic price (40-50 g).
This either means:
- There are less cats than we think in the market.
Or:
- Cat sellers are waiting for the AH to be online again.
Either ways, I predict a few days of inflation. Duped AD is still around, but since Neverwinter has huge money sinks, it's a good assumption that it will wear down in a few days. Also, people will be eager to spend some of their stockpiled AD in fear of being traced. Meaning either more cats, or other goodies that are easy to sell.
So, if there really is lots of duped AD, the cat price will skyrocket down. Even if people have MILLIONS to spend, no one would buy it less than 980 k AD. But no one wants to have 30 cats in their bags either, so they'll accept a lower pice in order to launder their savings.
Characters: - Titania Silverblade, the Iron Rose of Myth Drannor (Lvl 60 GWF, Destroyer) - Gwyneth, the Cowardly Cat Burglar Drowling (Lvl 60 TR, Saboteur) - Lady Rowanne Firehair, Heartwarder of Sune (Lvl 33 DC) - Satella, Sensate (LvL 44 CW, Renegade, Non-Active)
Technically there are ways to eliminate gold farmers, but practically all of them involves removing any sort of currency-based economy, so...
Lets also remember that gold-farmers only exist because people buy from them. We created them. If people never bought gold they wouldn't have a market, and would move on, but people keep feeding them cash and they keep on farmin and spammin /zone because they know there is profit to be made.
I'm pretty sure that currently there are not many cats for sale, the smart exploiters will obviously hold on to this on their mule accounts until this blows over - THEN they will start slowly selling them.
Neverwinter Online Open Beta is an ongoing success
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clockwerkninjaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I'm pretty sure that currently there are not many cats for sale, the smart exploiters will obviously hold on to this on their mule accounts until this blows over - THEN they will start slowly selling them.
Bingo..*produces cookie*..
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Quote Originally Posted by roents
It's an "open beta" that can't be wiped even in the midst of multiple economy destroying exploits. FUN
3 days at least all i've seen is cats, wipe, bans, rollback, FAIRIES!!!.....it's enough to make you wana find another species to live with sometimes ^^. Anyway, have fun with the rumor mill. I haven't even been able to get the launcher running again, since the big "fix".
LOL@ 3 days this exploit happened yesterday.. so... youve only been listening to it for 24 hours.
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cakeyeahMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 26Arc User
I'm pretty sure that currently there are not many cats for sale, the smart exploiters will obviously hold on to this on their mule accounts until this blows over - THEN they will start slowly selling them.
Those exploiters are few in number. If they weren't it'd have been public knowledge long ago. Not to mention we don't know how many of those who have known about it for that long even exist. Considering the devs learned what to look for I'm sure it wasn't hard to trace it. Have some of their mule accounts escaped? Probably but I'm sure they took a hit.
I'm pretty sure that currently there are not many cats for sale, the smart exploiters will obviously hold on to this on their mule accounts until this blows over - THEN they will start slowly selling them.
Or it could mean that all the cats were purchased after the reversal point of the rollback and that those claims of people still having cats are false. Sometimes the most obvious option is also the most likely one.
I did not see more cats than usual in Neverwinter on Dragon, and I did not see any offers that were actually real. What I did see were people begging for and WTB cats, and people who had fun making them run around in Hotenow to "get" one. I do not believe that all exploiters are smart and have self-controll, so we would see some sort of evidence that "illegal cats" are still floating around in meaningful quantities.
When the AH comes back up, and in the days that follow, we will see if there are cats being sold for below vendor value. Not one or two, which could have been mis-purchases, but several. Until then all of this is speculation, regardless of which possibility one considers more likely.
cakeyeahMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 26Arc User
edited May 2013
The thing is with trading their items bought via AD gained with the exploit to mule accounts, regardless of how many proxys they sit behind while doing so, is that they would have to trade an abnormal amount of those items and all that is logged. Therefore checking back to see who has traded in that manner is entirely possible. Didn't work too well for people trading thousands of duped Armbraces and rare pets to their mules in Guild Wars 6 years ago, so doubt it'd work too well now either.
Of course the other issue is that cats, being a high profile item, should be in theory be easily traced, not to mention that most trades had to be done in AD anyway, meaning suspicious trades to mule accounts would be fairly obvious, since the mule accounts had to get that AD from somewhere too.
In theory, it's actually low profile cheaper items which are more likely to escape being caught.
teepussiMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
If only it was limited to cats, but thinking how some people have millions of unearned AD in their pockets. When AH opens prices will be unnatural or some people will shower under all the runes and enchants they can buy. Supply and demand will stay most likely all sort of twisted. Considering the fact if i have for example exchanged some Zen for AD, i want my buying power with it.
Then again while AH been down noticed a lot more people doing bartering, so people trade items vs items and who AD gets thrown out of the window.
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teepussiMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
We continually monitoring the situation and will make sure to take the appropriate follow-up actions if additional issues are discovered. Right now we are sorting out the legitimate reports from the people who are just posting stuff like that to be funny.
There shouldnt be need for reporting, if you have proper tools and logs on the matter. For example shouldnt you be able to slice out the extra added AD by logs, naturally requiring a lot of manual labor when going after those that launder their AD through to other accounts. But that pretty much should be logical step if you want to keep any credibility on your in game market, cause why would anyone use Zen for AD aside of some possible AD sink situations. If prices for AD traded p2p will be inflated cause this fiasco.
There shouldnt be need for reporting, if you have proper tools and logs on the matter. For example shouldnt you be able to slice out the extra added AD by logs, naturally requiring a lot of manual labor when going after those that launder their AD through to other accounts. But that pretty much should be logical step if you want to keep any credibility on your in game market, cause why would anyone use Zen for AD aside of some possible AD sink situations. If prices for AD traded p2p will be inflated cause this fiasco.
The issue is not the accounts which used the exploit. It's the accounts which the gains has been transferred to. And separating those from the accounts which are innocent; The intentional selling/giving of cats to passerbys was an intentional tactic to make this difficult.
The issue is not the accounts which used the exploit. It's the accounts which the gains has been transferred to. And separating those from the accounts which are innocent; The intentional selling/giving of cats to passerbys was an intentional tactic to make this difficult.
Thats why i said launder and that will be a lot of manual work, it cannot be done just by easy searches of parameters. This game market balance is broken now and its hard to see reason why would anyone waste Zen, when their buying power is hampered by exploiters. At same breath free to play legit players will have to grind a lot more harder to gain anything and most likely lose their interest soon as they hit certain break points depending on the invidual.
I mean if before i could argue ok, im giving real money for someones AD, when considering he bought founder pack or hes suffering through the 24k daily AD limit or simply beign good merchant (still the pool of AD would been limited). So they have to start selling really powerful Zen stuff to get money out of people, like selling direct enchants & runes or see whole $ € market dry out now as who in their right minds would want to use AD & Zen transfer outside of maybe wanting to upgrade their pet if bought white, green or blue and felt rush to get that next lvl, same with mounts.
They are expensive. You can buy them for a little under 1 million AD from an NPC and then, since the exploiters obtained the AD for free, they sold them to the general population for a fraction of that price. Simple .
Comments
Indeed. Which is an unpopular idea. Less money from the company and also it irritates the player base as well. In fact, not even just currency. They'd have to remove trade period. Remove currency and then items act as currency (see d2). Sellers will then farm said items to use as bargaining chips. In D2 you can go to third party websites and buy the best gear in the game.
Not really, so long as there's no consistent single item to act as currency. Though admittedly "gearfarmers" can sell gear directly, but at that point it becomes impractical for the average person who presumably (granted assumption) prefers the straightforwardness of a universal currency to get whatever they want after. (the more savvy would presumably know the full risks of using said gearfarmers)
Then again, this would require itemization to be designed as such right from the start, so is not really applicable to NW regardless.
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
This either means:
- There are less cats than we think in the market.
Or:
- Cat sellers are waiting for the AH to be online again.
Either ways, I predict a few days of inflation. Duped AD is still around, but since Neverwinter has huge money sinks, it's a good assumption that it will wear down in a few days. Also, people will be eager to spend some of their stockpiled AD in fear of being traced. Meaning either more cats, or other goodies that are easy to sell.
So, if there really is lots of duped AD, the cat price will skyrocket down. Even if people have MILLIONS to spend, no one would buy it less than 980 k AD. But no one wants to have 30 cats in their bags either, so they'll accept a lower pice in order to launder their savings.
- Titania Silverblade, the Iron Rose of Myth Drannor (Lvl 60 GWF, Destroyer)
- Gwyneth, the Cowardly Cat Burglar Drowling (Lvl 60 TR, Saboteur)
- Lady Rowanne Firehair, Heartwarder of Sune (Lvl 33 DC)
- Satella, Sensate (LvL 44 CW, Renegade, Non-Active)
Check Steppenkat's Foundry Quest Reviews!
Lets also remember that gold-farmers only exist because people buy from them. We created them. If people never bought gold they wouldn't have a market, and would move on, but people keep feeding them cash and they keep on farmin and spammin /zone because they know there is profit to be made.
Burninator of Wasabiburn, Maker of Dreamz, Breaker of Heartz
Nerf the cats! ...to a degree that they mean nothing more for endgame content than the other companions (next to trash that is).
Some compensation for the legitimate cat owners should be provided in the above case.
Gaurwulf - GF, hybrid tank/dps, GS 12.5k
Bingo..*produces cookie*..
Quote Originally Posted by roents
It's an "open beta" that can't be wiped even in the midst of multiple economy destroying exploits. FUN
LOL@ 3 days this exploit happened yesterday.. so... youve only been listening to it for 24 hours.
Those exploiters are few in number. If they weren't it'd have been public knowledge long ago. Not to mention we don't know how many of those who have known about it for that long even exist. Considering the devs learned what to look for I'm sure it wasn't hard to trace it. Have some of their mule accounts escaped? Probably but I'm sure they took a hit.
Or it could mean that all the cats were purchased after the reversal point of the rollback and that those claims of people still having cats are false. Sometimes the most obvious option is also the most likely one.
I did not see more cats than usual in Neverwinter on Dragon, and I did not see any offers that were actually real. What I did see were people begging for and WTB cats, and people who had fun making them run around in Hotenow to "get" one. I do not believe that all exploiters are smart and have self-controll, so we would see some sort of evidence that "illegal cats" are still floating around in meaningful quantities.
When the AH comes back up, and in the days that follow, we will see if there are cats being sold for below vendor value. Not one or two, which could have been mis-purchases, but several. Until then all of this is speculation, regardless of which possibility one considers more likely.
In theory, it's actually low profile cheaper items which are more likely to escape being caught.
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
Then again while AH been down noticed a lot more people doing bartering, so people trade items vs items and who AD gets thrown out of the window.
There shouldnt be need for reporting, if you have proper tools and logs on the matter. For example shouldnt you be able to slice out the extra added AD by logs, naturally requiring a lot of manual labor when going after those that launder their AD through to other accounts. But that pretty much should be logical step if you want to keep any credibility on your in game market, cause why would anyone use Zen for AD aside of some possible AD sink situations. If prices for AD traded p2p will be inflated cause this fiasco.
This is actually not a bad idea.
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
Thats why i said launder and that will be a lot of manual work, it cannot be done just by easy searches of parameters. This game market balance is broken now and its hard to see reason why would anyone waste Zen, when their buying power is hampered by exploiters. At same breath free to play legit players will have to grind a lot more harder to gain anything and most likely lose their interest soon as they hit certain break points depending on the invidual.
I mean if before i could argue ok, im giving real money for someones AD, when considering he bought founder pack or hes suffering through the 24k daily AD limit or simply beign good merchant (still the pool of AD would been limited). So they have to start selling really powerful Zen stuff to get money out of people, like selling direct enchants & runes or see whole $ € market dry out now as who in their right minds would want to use AD & Zen transfer outside of maybe wanting to upgrade their pet if bought white, green or blue and felt rush to get that next lvl, same with mounts.
They are expensive. You can buy them for a little under 1 million AD from an NPC and then, since the exploiters obtained the AD for free, they sold them to the general population for a fraction of that price. Simple
Regards,
Kalantris