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Need Before Greed is a must in this game
muceas
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
Can we have "need before greed" implemented? Yes, WoW style! We like it or not WoW is still the golden model as far as MMORPGs are concerned.
IMHO "need before greed" should be the default looting rule.
There are tons of players with a poor command of the English language, very little understating of the game or the looting etiquette while others even though understand everything perfectly do roll "need" just to upset the rest of their party members.
If a drop is class specific and it is NOT my class I should NOT be allowed to roll "need" on it, the "need" option should be grayed out for me and for all the other party members that don't qualify class wise.
That will eliminate all the "ninja" activity and everyone will be happy.
What do you guys?
Please support the idea if you find it to be fair.
IMHO "need before greed" should be the default looting rule.
There are tons of players with a poor command of the English language, very little understating of the game or the looting etiquette while others even though understand everything perfectly do roll "need" just to upset the rest of their party members.
If a drop is class specific and it is NOT my class I should NOT be allowed to roll "need" on it, the "need" option should be grayed out for me and for all the other party members that don't qualify class wise.
That will eliminate all the "ninja" activity and everyone will be happy.
What do you guys?
Please support the idea if you find it to be fair.
Post edited by muceas on
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The DAOC's system seems even easier to use than WoW's, if I understand correctly there is no need for individual rolls. I would settle for some "work" to be done, I don't mind rolling for something I can use and I don't mind winning something that nobody wants.
When playing my cleric I am the only cleric in the party and people know they'll lose my services if they stiff me, but when I play my rogue and I see all the other classes rolling on daggers... that's when the whole gaming experience becomes very frustrating. I am in a 300+ players guild but sometimes I do join PUGs and that's when the whole mess starts.
Right now I see only two things that are lacking in terms of dungeons and skirmishes. The already mentioned NEED/GREED problem, and the fact that after a certain level you loose the chance to do the dungeon.
Haven't reached level 60 myself,but if it's not yet implemented I think it would be a good idea to make a level 60 version of each dungeon just to add variety to the end game. I do understand that the first dungeons are somewhat short, but the mid level ones could be challenging enough for level 60 player, if the monster level would be adjusted accordingly.
In short, I REALLY wanna fight the mad dragon again! Never did get a chance to beat him! ='(
Um.. what was I talking about? Ah yes, the need/greed thing? Well it always bafles me, how a GF needs a magic orb, or a TR needs a heavy plate. You honestly, don't expect us to believe you are going to wear it! The need option for unusable items should be disabled, because, you see, anyone who "needs" something he can't use, is a liar and has an empty backpack... Maybe he should start colecting runes?
*gets distracted by something laying on a ground and picks it up* ooh, shiny!
Someone did have to pick it up for it to be distributed but you could just bind that to keys like h and g like me and just spam that when something dies.
Instanced loot is what they need to make. They already have instanced loot for potions, scrolls, enhancements, chests, etc. They just need to change equipment to the same system.
By instanced loot (for those that might be confused) I mean that when an NPC dies loot is generated for each person, and each person sees only their loot on the ground. This does not mean that when a blue drops that everyone gets a blue. It means that everyone has a percentage chance to get the various tiers of loot for each drop.
With that system players can then decide if they want to trade away good loot they got, put it on the auction house, or keep it for an alt. That system then gets rid of loot ninjas and all that ugliness.
The need/greed system is an ancient artifact that most recent games have done away with. Considering part of the loot in Neverwinter already is instanced I have no idea why they then forced the need/greed system on us.
This should be a setting that the party leader can enable.
Party leader should be a party vote cast at the entry of every dungeon.
Leader should be able to initiate a vote for a vote kick, not kick anyone at whim.
This been ask many time and many thread. It is a NICE feature to have BUT
All epic are BoE so to a person, they will always need (or for their alt) I presume the dev thought the same way.
So why not just change it to
- Random drop into someone's bag instead of need/greed method (round robin)
Please review my campaign and I'll return the favor.
"You shouldn't be able to NEED on gear you can't use."
"Shut up, I went through that dungeon too -- it's as much mine as it is yours."
"Ninja looters!"
"There's nothing remotely ninja-like about hitting the '!' key."
"You shouldn't be able to NEED on gear you can't use."
"Just NEED everything and shut up. You win what you win."
"But it's my CLASS."
etc.
Yea. I think the main problem is that epic loots are BoE. If it is BoP, I don't think we see as "much" issue. There will always be people needing it just cause, but it will be less.
Since it is BoE, people "need it" cause they need AD
Please review my campaign and I'll return the favor.
If the devs are trying to create a greedy, grabbing and inconsiderate community, then this is working to plan.
There are plenty of alternatives to this <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> poor system, the DAoC method is new to me, but looks good. Not being able to roll need on loot you can't use is another that would be ok. I still like the DDO approach - everyone gets loot, no rolling unless you want to put it up for one yourself.
Truth, just look at the prices for some green and blue profession items on the AH
There are epic versions of all dungeons at 60, just no skirmishes besides the one. :P
Still my favorite, besides the fact that some quests had almost no chests and others had tons, everyone got loot, no needing or greeding. The only time drama happened was when someone got mad you took all your loot out before they could see what you got. Best system ever. I really, really can't believe more games don't use a system where everyone gets something from runs. Tokens are good start, but most chests here even seem to be who ever gets there first. :P
Doesn't help that gold is only really useful for potions, but even that drops paltry amounts, that most of the time doesn't even cover any potions you might have used. If you got no loot because every one else "needed" items, you are boned.
Dear god no! In groups formed by the queue, it should be the need before greed, unchangeable. Do whatever you want in premade groups, but in pugs, it should never be able to be changed. That would be open to abuse too easily.
I would not put it in so bellicose a manner but in short yes that’s exactly it. I know that we all are delivering wish lists for what we would like to see implemented. But I think it is important for us all to keep an eye on what we actually have to work with right now.
Given the tools currently at your disposal, the only fair thing to do is to need on all. That is the only way to guarantee everyone a fair chance. Anything else means someone will get short changed.
And the need imperative doesn’t preclude you from offering what you get in trade or just out of the goodness of your heart if you are of a mind to foster some positive image.
So wish for more, suggest the best, but use what you have and remind your party to do the same.
I think if i take a rag and start wiping the gold color off, theres brown underneath.
Most games carve out their niche in the MMO market by doing things different than the game that attracts the LCD customer base of all customer bases.
I prefer everyone getting their own chest pull, and no one seeing anyone elses loot pull. This will stop all moaning over loot.
Except that, if you look at the dev tracker, they said they are working on different methods of changing it. Also, PWE has no real effect, it's Cryptic who is the developer. PWE is just a publisher.
Round Robin isn't the answer either, because if you know your turn for loot comes after John04 then you stand by the cool drop and wait for John04 to get something and pick it up, it's yours. I've seen people do it in other games. I've done it myself after getting hosed too many times.
Not sure the answer. If you go with 'only classes that can use can roll NEED' then if only rogue gear drops that run, the only way anybody else gets anything is if the rogue is nice and rolls 'greed' a few times? I think chances of that happening are rather less than one person winning 90% of the rolls...
Need rolls only on blue or better class specific is a must that shouldn't be allowed to be changed. I greed on most unidentified greens on all enchants to be fair rank 1,2, and 3 even drop like candy and I pass on anything that I can't use. wish some people would have same respect
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Back in "The Day", even in WoW it was possible to roll Need on anything and everything. The player community enforced their own rules, where you had to leave loot drops which you could not use for players who not only could use them, but who were also planning to use use them right away (in other words, if you weren't planning to equip it right then and there, you had to select Greed. That used to include situations where you were too low a level for the item, though generally players were allowed to roll Need on these items if they simply asked first.)
Sadly, the MMO communities of today are full of immature players who cannot be trusted with an unrestricted Need button.
-Travail.
So yesterday many unidentified items for my class dropped, and so i Need them. Then at 1 point people ask me why i keep needing them and said Need is only for identified blue items... I just did what they said for that instance, but yeah all people have different ideas on how to loot.
Round Robin? Prone to abuse, as stated above.
Random loot? Would cause just as much crying over items as the current system, although, in theory, it would be fair. Random is random: Someone might get incredibly lucky, but there wouldn't be anyone to blame for that. In theory.
Need-before-Greed with Need being class-restricted does sound like a legitimate solution. However, every single piece of loot from a dungeon, no matter its uses, belongs to the whole party the moment it drops. Everyone worked equally hard for it and thus everyone has a right to it. If not for upgrading one's gear, then to cover potion expenses.
In the end, everyone wants different things and interprets the term "fair" in their own way. Looting rules should take that into consideration. To me, the most logical solution would be to choose the rules at the beginning of each run by VOTE. The party leader shouldn't have more say in the matter than the rest of the party, especially in PUGs. Make Need-before-Greed, Random, Roll-or-Pass and/or whatnot options the majority chooses. That way, each party could have its own looting dynamics.
If that's not possible, Need-before-Greed is a must, though.