I have played CW, GWF, and TR, based from my observation CW is the strongest in PvP and 2nd is rogue actually it depends on who's using it. A rogue is op when it can 1 shot or 2 shot u, but look once the rogue fails to do that there's no way he can touch the CW which makes the CW more stronger than any class in 1v1. With the teleport of CW every sec and stun skills, slow, or any debuffs there's now way the TR can touch the CW. Please use TR and reach lvl 60 and believe me you'll get frustrated on how the hell you're going to touch the wizard if u weren't able to kill it instantly when u appeared in stealth also the daze stike has a long animation before it hits u. With a teleport or any dodge techniques u have there's good chance to dodge it if u are not stunned by someone else. daze strike has 10 secs cooldown and when it hits you, you aren't allowed to use skills or dodge but u can still move away from him right? A stupid player will just wait for the daze to disappear and get his revenge even if he knows that the rogue can deal so much damage in a single target. Please note that if a rogue killed u in a 1v1 that's because rogues are meant to deal high single burst damage every class has its own role so u cant just whine there and say "How the f*** that rogue killed me so fast!?":)
"It also has a very long range compared to melee and a wide arc. Ive actually dodged away from it, and after the rogue landed and I was dodge range away, still got hit by it." LOL mybe ur experiencing rubberbanding at that time. as a rogue I've never seen my daze strike land on enemies in a long range.
Rogues have one problem, that's Shocking Execution. Clerics have one problem that's Astral Shield, the Guardian Fighter and Control Wizard are good, Great Weapon Fighter is weak and damage and healing need to both be toned down overall. There is no one single problem that will fix the pvp in this game, many things need to change and I'm really sad that not many people see that.
+1
Agree. Shocking Execution is just like a death sentence~. when you left 3/4 life, good luck to you~
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replicaclonedMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Agree. Shocking Execution is just like a death sentence~. when you left 3/4 life, good luck to you~
Meh. It's an execute, i would expect an execute to do a ton of damage. Especially a 50 point power one. The problem I and others have is that even if you try and get out of the way when you see the daggers in the animation, and even if DODGE pops up on your screen in red...it still hits. It could be lag, or whatever, if my screen says dodge, I should dodge.
Agree. Shocking Execution is just like a death sentence~. when you left 3/4 life, good luck to you~
Heh, you almost make it sound like an actual shocking execution.
It is pretty powerful though, IF it lands. It's telegraphed pretty well and takes quite a while to set up.
It's also a pretty sight to see a TR jump in the air for the finisher... and then have him dangle in the air due to a CW's choke. TR's daily gone, TR gone.
Meh. It's an execute, i would expect an execute to do a ton of damage. Especially a 50 point power one. The problem I and others have is that even if you try and get out of the way when you see the daggers in the animation, and even if DODGE pops up on your screen in red...it still hits. It could be lag, or whatever, if my screen says dodge, I should dodge.
I dont think you could dodge or block it~
>throw daggers in stealth/Lashing Strike depend on what you love (make sure they are 3/4 in life)
>shocking execution
>profit
CWs and TRs are just so much better than the rest of the classes. The argument that 2 clerics together stackin shield is whats really broken is an argument most likely being made by a TR or CW who didn't kill sumone in one round of their at wills saying thats op cause it works every other time lol.
This game is unplayable in pvp atm unless you are a TR or CW, and you will be on a team or TRs and CWs lol. The lack of input from the company on their plans for classes too is pretty sad.
Astral shield is still the most impacting ability in the game, at level 60 PvP, damage is so high that GFs and GWFs can also kill people in 2-3 hits. So, everyone's dying in a few hits, makes things even (except for wizards crazy range +CC)... till the cleric puts down astral shield, now one team takes no damage, but the team without a cleric, still dies in a few hits. It makes the match completely one-sided, all from just one ability. Clerics may not be getting the kills, but they are the ones wining the game.
Astral shield is just a huge problem, not only for its dominance in PvP, but it also lets clerics tank better than a GF in PvE, so no one wants guardian fighters in their party. Not only that, but Astral shield is so powerful, that it makes the rest of the clerics kit redundant. What really needs to be done, is for Astral shield to be nerfed hard, and the rest of a clerics kit to be buffed up, so their other abilities can compete with Astral shield... and yes, I realised I trailed off topic a bit there. sorry for that.
>throw daggers in stealth/Lashing Strike depend on what you love (make sure they are 3/4 in life)
>shocking execution
>profit
You can dodge it, you need to dodge at the last moment though, when the rogue is at the top of his jump. Its difficult to do but with practice its possible. Though really, you are better off just interrupting him, it has a huge start up on it and any form of disable will just stop it.
Also at 3/4 hp, shocking execution won't kill, unless there's a serious gear score difference. Its damage scales with missing hp, so at 3/4 it will not hit that hard, usually need to be half hp or lower before it will kill.
The biggest problem with pvp for GWF I noticed is if you get stunned by CW or TR, you can't use unstoppable the entire pvp match (this has happened to me about 25% of the time).
That's like a TR not having stealth the entire battle. Another issue is broken abilities that have 1 animation frame that interrupt other moves, such as dailies. I'm not talking about knock backs or stuns either. I'm talking you hit the button, before they do...yet your move is canceled.
I've also had many scenarios where I couldn't even unstoppable under a debuff, such as stun, being choked by a CW, will not activate (this happens probably about 65% of the time, though it may be different if x2 people are doing the same move on you at the same time). Yet in pve, I've been able to activate unstoppable in almost every single debuff state.
I even used a move that makes me dash at the person, and is "supposed" to make them prone. The dash worked, but prone was canceled. I feel some prone moves work 100% of the time, other moves never finish. I realize that in real time of the action, it has to finish for it to actually have played out.
Another big issue is when you que for pvp. So many times I've had 4 vs 5, or 3 vs 5, because the game doesn't figure out that the teams are unbalanced. Plus there's the bug where nobody is teleported to the pvp arena, and just stays where they are till everyone is booted.
I'm sure you guys have already spoken your two cents, I'm just tossing in mine. I realize that this is open beta, and bugs are bound to happen. I'm not raging about it saying "fix this now". As long as someday it actually is fixed.
Most MMO i've seen that do pvp, typically scale things differently in pvp, such as damage. Damage is normally dumbed down, because some numbers you can do in pve are just unrealistic vs a players hp pool. Bosses on the other hand can have millions of hp, which requires you to do 65k+ dmg.
There's alot of terrain issues in regards to having absolute advantage. Thankfully there's no rangers with bows, cause we'd all be getting 1 shoted snipped all day long
Meh. It's an execute, i would expect an execute to do a ton of damage. Especially a 50 point power one. The problem I and others have is that even if you try and get out of the way when you see the daggers in the animation, and even if DODGE pops up on your screen in red...it still hits. It could be lag, or whatever, if my screen says dodge, I should dodge.
I found that with more lag, the discrepancy between client-side dodge and server acknowledging this gets larger.
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replicaclonedMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I found that with more lag, the discrepancy between client-side dodge and server acknowledging this gets larger.
It would also depend where on the map I was fighting as well. On the map with the stone stairs between 2 and 3, or 2 and 1, my FPS always drops dramatically. Every time. Not so much on the points themselves, but any where else on the map I find the lag gets worse. Dodges do not happen as soon as I press the button, and obviously attacks are not dodged even when I do get the dodge off.
I've yet to come across a game where I have this much lag in pvp. Even 40v40 matches on other mmos I have zero problems. It seems Neverwinter is not only in need class balance, but also a upgrade to their pvp aspect.
I got the last piece of pvp gear for my CW earlier. I have decided not to pvp again until these matters are fixed. Class balance, server to client reliability, new maps, new objectives.
I came here from GW2, so capture the point had already been old and bland to me. I have no idea why this has become some sort of default pvp style for new games, but it's a bad one.
So... For people who are having trouble with "tanky" Rogues, we have this 1 skill called "Impossible to Catch". It is our only damage mitigation spell. We turn black when we use it. We are immune to cc and take very little damage for like 3-4-5 secs. Sounds op right?
But here's the thing... ASIDE FROM DODGE IT'S OUR ONLY MITIGATION AND HAS A CD OF 18 SEC. 9/10 I can win a fight vs GF, GWF, fellow rogue, just by activating this 1 skill when they attack me. Because, for some reason, they blow all their encounter powers (and sometimes daily powers) on me in like the first 2 seconds of combat. And then they wonder why they lose.
Well now you know. The secret's out. Feel free to root us, knock us down, wtf-pwn us, whatever. We are as squishy and delicious as crab cakes without it. And please don't nerf shocking execution. It's the only way I can ever catch a decent CW. A good CW... forget about it. Straight counter to rogue.
Yes it's really OP and the dmg portion should be removed. And you still have 2 Dodge Rolls after that, then you can stealth and run away. So what are we supose to do, stand there and let you hit us for 3-4-5 seconds, moast fights doesn't even last that long. Combine that with Daze or Smoke Screen and thats another 3-4-5 seconds you can stand there and stab us. Can't see how gamebreakin that is in PVP? Also GF and GWF at will's doesn't come close to the ones of CW and TR's thats why we blow our encounters fast. It's the ONLY way we do dmg. Even if a GWF activates unstoppeble the damage output is terrible. And moast of the time you can dodge our encounters anyway. GF have a massivly bugged block skill thats got 1 or 2 seconds delay. GWF's can't dodge at all and moast of TR's abillites lock onto target even if we run away, or around you to try and dodge/flank.
Edit:
Or while activated TR's get Dazed emself, that works to.
Yes it's really OP and the dmg portion should be removed.
The damage portion can't be removed because it's utterly necessary in PvE, when we are the ones attacking the bosses.
And you still have 2 Dodge Rolls after that, then you can stealth and run away.
I thought this discussion was about us being too tanky, not our ability to slink away from fights. Of course we have dodges and stealth, we are rogues. This situation of a Trickster Rogue popping Impossible to Catch, then dodging, then stealthing to escape; may be annoying, but it's isn't a sign of being overpowered. It's a sign of the Trickster Rogue playing like the sneaky character is it. And let's not forget that the effectiveness of "stealth" is largely mitigated do to a targeting radius remaining on your character after you pop it.
So what are we supose to do, stand there and let you hit us for 3-4-5 seconds, most fights doesn't even last that long.
Yeah, if you're dying in 3 seconds, then there's not much that can be done to help you. Especially in group combat, which is where GWF and GW should always be in.
Combine that with Daze or Smoke Screen and thats another 3-4-5 seconds you can stand there and stab us. Can't see how gamebreakin that is in PVP?
No I can't. Mostly because you can use Lashing Blade in this fictional scenario of the Trickster Rogue who only uses utility spells on his bar.
Also GF and GWF at will's doesn't come close to the ones of CW and TR's thats why we blow our encounters fast. It's the ONLY way we do dmg. Even if a GWF activates unstoppeble the damage output is terrible. And moast of the time you can dodge our encounters anyway. GF have a massivly bugged block skill thats got 1 or 2 seconds delay. GWF's can't dodge at all and moast of TR's abillites lock onto target even if we run away, or around you to try and dodge/flank.
Sounds like your class is underpowered and needs a buff. I don't see why you're complaining about the TR at all.
A rich rogue nowadays is fit company for any gentleman; and the world, my dear, hath not such a contempt for roguery as you imagine. - John HAMSTER
Well I agree with the rogues "impossible to catch" skill being a little stupid, I've not played TR so I didn't know name, I have no real problem with the dmg reduction, mine is with the KD resistance. 5 seconds being immortal to kds and have DR also? Cmon now..you are a rogue it makes no sense, it sounds more like a GF skill. As others have said, rogues truly aren't easy to kill. They have various utility skills to help them engage and disengage really well. My only other problem is the "daze" skill again sorry I don't know name. ontop of all the other insane <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> rogue has to get in and out of combat, they can daze us for seconds making us useless until it wears off. It's easy to block and dodge, but that's besides the point. I aint calling for a huge nerf to rogues, I find them challenging, but they need work so they don't own every class.
I play GF and certainly I disagree completely with us being underpowered and needing a buff. Also our at wills are brilliant, to say otherwise is silly.
One lunge tech that can stick us to pretty much enemy class, fully spammable. and provides aoe taunt.
and an cleave attack that does good damage augmented by the right perks, and it hits multiple targets at one.
If anything our at wills are among the best of any classes, they augment our playing style perfectly.
GWF I agree is underpowered, rogues can walk up to them and toe to toe them easily.
>throw daggers in stealth/Lashing Strike depend on what you love (make sure they are 3/4 in life)
>shocking execution
>profit
you cant dodge, but once u dodge away from the range of shocking execution it will be cancelled. Also it can be block, earlier I used shocking execution to a GF and he used block and he only received a 1.3k damage.
Agree nerfing shocking execution would make us more weak against CW. The only way I kill a good CW is stealth > shocking execution(you will be still in stealth mode dont know if these is a bug) then Lashing Blade. but still its not easy to kill them because a good CW will teleport right after he was hit by daily and be aware when the TR appears cos when he appears he'll get stun then TR would be like an idiot bandit chasing the CW.
Agree nerfing shocking execution would make us more weak against CW. The only way I kill a good CW is stealth > shocking execution(you will be still in stealth mode dont know if these is a bug) then Lashing Blade. but still its not easy to kill them because a good CW will teleport right after he was hit by daily and be aware when the TR appears cos when he appears he'll get stun then TR would be like an idiot bandit chasing the CW.
Maybe you aren't meant to kill everything? Maybe some other class is supposed to kill CWs? Maybe a class that can break and sustain CC immunity while maybe getting damage mitigation?
Both GW classes need a serious buff for PvP and PvE. TR needs a huge debuff for PvP. Serious, one second you daze and then that daze lasts long enough for the TR to kill you before you can even dash away. CW are also pretty strong.
Agree nerfing shocking execution would make us more weak against CW. The only way I kill a good CW is stealth > shocking execution(you will be still in stealth mode dont know if these is a bug) then Lashing Blade. but still its not easy to kill them because a good CW will teleport right after he was hit by daily and be aware when the TR appears cos when he appears he'll get stun then TR would be like an idiot bandit chasing the CW.
You're wasting your stealth. Stealth > spam CoS > they're either dead or they blinked twice > hit impossible to catch before stealth ends to get 5 sec immunity > jump towards them and spam impact shot x3 > they die or live if they have soulforged.
I do this day in and day out. There are so many ledges in pvp maps that it's easy to mount up, flank them from behind by jumping off a ledge and while in mid-air, hit stealth and start spamming CoS. This works in the castle zone from all three points and the 2nd point in the other map.
Play the rogue class as it is meant to be played, a sneaky *******.
I think pvp is more balanced than people say it is. I feel like everyone should level 2-3 classes to 60 and play them in pvp to understand. The problem most people are having is not understanding what makes their class good a PvP. Rogues are easily the least useful in PvP, while Guardian Fighters or Control Wizards are the most useful.
I'm sad that people who don't fully understand the game are asking for rebalancing when it isn't necessary. I enjoy pvp on all my toons, and I personally don't feel like rebalancing is necessary mainly because each class is strong in it's own way.
I think pvp is more balanced than people say it is. I feel like everyone should level 2-3 classes to 60 and play them in pvp to understand. The problem most people are having is not understanding what makes their class good a PvP. Rogues are easily the least useful in PvP, while Guardian Fighters or Control Wizards are the most useful.
I'm sad that people who don't fully understand the game are asking for rebalancing when it isn't necessary. I enjoy pvp on all my toons, and I personally don't feel like rebalancing is necessary mainly because each class is strong in it's own way.
People do this, which is why you mostly see TR and CW in PVP. People realize how crazy OP they are and stick with it.
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thorizdenMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
People do this, which is why you mostly see TR and CW in PVP. People realize how crazy OP they are and stick with it.
Not exactly. What we have are almost entirely purely random teams of people thrown together by the queue and TR is far and away the best scoring "solo" class with CW being second. TR because of the burst damage and stealth to avoid deaths and CW because of the ranged damage and mezzes. A good premade team with a DC and 1-2 GFs, 1 CW, and 1-2 TR will wreck a team of all TRs or all CWs or a team made up of a mix of those two classes.
Talking about balance in MMOs is almost never about random groups and we haven't even seen what the actual meta game looks like because everything is random <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
TRs just have too much of everything. They can hit from afar, they can dodge, they can crit for 15+k with multiple abilities, they have hard CC, they have immunity to CC and that god **** deflection. No other class can provide so much utility, survivability and damage at once. After 60 lvl almost EVERY rogue plays like Stealth->throw daggers->impact shot a few times if target is still alive. That OMG TOO OP Ice Knife is freaking daily and it doesn't crit all the times, and CW must has 2 stacks of ray on target. Every target can be killed by Blade from stealth+shocking execution or as i said before just by throwing daggers. It's just <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
TRs just have too much of everything. They can hit from afar, they can dodge, they can crit for 15+k with multiple abilities, they have hard CC, they have immunity to CC and that god **** deflection. No other class can provide so much utility, survivability and damage at once. After 60 lvl almost EVERY rogue plays like Stealth->throw daggers->impact shot a few times if target is still alive. That OMG TOO OP Ice Knife is freaking daily and it doesn't crit all the times, and CW must has 2 stacks of ray on target. Every target can be killed by Blade from stealth+shocking execution or as i said before just by throwing daggers. It's just <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
puff, you are really wrong.
They can dodge you said, i guess u are talking about "impossible to catch"? ok, well, in that case, you need lazhing blade and the bomb, so you dont have impact shock. You gonna chose impact shock? then you dont have lazing blade. You need 2 encounters with damage.
There is only 1 skill that all rogues use, and it is the bomb. The rest of skills, execution, lazhing blade and the others whatever.
Survivality you said, pufff, men, comon, are you play a rogue? cause if you say that, I cant believe you play this class. All rogues know that is impossible take a CW, they have more survivality than you, more range, the same damage, but how they can stack his damage on the distance, i can say that the cw in pvp has more damage than a rogue.
You said: "They are inmune to cc", other time i guess you are talking about impossible to catch, i dont know...
And the last you said, Deflection? What? comon, deflection dont avoid the nukes of the cw or the blows of the gfs...
You need undestand this, the only way for a rogue of kill a cw his shocking execution, if not, they just laugh of us.
PD: The rogue is far of be the best in pvp, the good gf destroy us, the gwf has chances and the cw is our blackbeast. But in one thing i have to give you the reason, we have many utility and that is our strong point in pvp. The rogue is the class that more need a good team cause he need take by surprise, and for that, your team must push the enemy.
I have both GWF & TR at 60 with Glory gears. I like both of them.
I made 2 PvP videos to compare, so far I think each of them has a different pvp style:
TR has very high dps and can kill an opponent quickly, but also die easily if you got targeted.
Meanwhile, GWF is quite strong on defense and average dps, but you can still kill an opponent in 3 critical hits if you are good at timing your skills.
(My GWF is a bit better geared because it was my main :P - I still love her then)
In general, I think that TR is easy to play and can be very effect in PvP. While GWF/GF is quite hard to play; but still I met a lot of good GWF/GF (maybe they have good gear) and believe me, they are really badasses.
About the current balance, yep, TR has more advantages in both PvP and PvE, who doesn't love a quick kill.
puff, you are really wrong.
They can dodge you said, i guess u are talking about "impossible to catch"? ok, well, in that case, you need lazhing blade and the bomb, so you dont have impact shock. You gonna chose impact shock? then you dont have lazing blade. You need 2 encounters with damage.
There is only 1 skill that all rogues use, and it is the bomb. The rest of skills, execution, lazhing blade and the others whatever.
Survivality you said, pufff, men, comon, are you play a rogue? cause if you say that, I cant believe you play this class. All rogues know that is impossible take a CW, they have more survivality than you, more range, the same damage, but how they can stack his damage on the distance, i can say that the cw in pvp has more damage than a rogue.
You said: "They are inmune to cc", other time i guess you are talking about impossible to catch, i dont know...
And the last you said, Deflection? What? comon, deflection dont avoid the nukes of the cw or the blows of the gfs...
You need undestand this, the only way for a rogue of kill a cw his shocking execution, if not, they just laugh of us.
PD: The rogue is far of be the best in pvp, the good gf destroy us, the gwf has chances and the cw is our blackbeast. But in one thing i have to give you the reason, we have many utility and that is our strong point in pvp. The rogue is the class that more need a good team cause he need take by surprise, and for that, your team must push the enemy.
You need to learn your class. This is more of a l2p issue in reality. If you don't use the element of surprise to your advantage as a TR, then you deserve to get stomped by a CW.
Edit: All rogues don't use smokebomb. It's the most overrated CC that we have. It does no damage and it's easy to walk out of it.
I think pvp is more balanced than people say it is. I feel like everyone should level 2-3 classes to 60 and play them in pvp to understand. The problem most people are having is not understanding what makes their class good a PvP. Rogues are easily the least useful in PvP, while Guardian Fighters or Control Wizards are the most useful.
I'm sad that people who don't fully understand the game are asking for rebalancing when it isn't necessary. I enjoy pvp on all my toons, and I personally don't feel like rebalancing is necessary mainly because each class is strong in it's own way.
I feel the same way. In fact I am really impressed with the balance in the game. At level cap it isn't as much fun for me because everyone dies in a few hits from virtually any class. From 10-59 though-especially the level x0,1,2,3 and x9 the game balance feels good and you can have some fun longish/tactical fights, and unless you meet a player in all purples you can do fine in just a mishmash of questing gear.
You need to learn your class. This is more of a l2p issue in reality. If you don't use the element of surprise to your advantage as a TR, then you deserve to get stomped by a CW.
Edit: All rogues don't use smokebomb. It's the most overrated CC that we have. It does no damage and it's easy to walk out of it.
L2p? LOL, do you expect i believe you defeat a cw? No even in dreams.1vs1, cw destroy the rogue, and if you denied that, you are lying.
Rogues dont use smokebomb? in my server (beholder), doesnt exist the rogues without that skill, unless, i dont remember anyone.
EDIT: by the way, you dont read me, cause before i said that the rogues need takes by surprise, but...
L2p? LOL, do you expect i believe you defeat a cw? No even in dreams.1vs1, cw destroy the rogue, and if you denied that, you are lying.
Rogues dont use smokebomb? in my server (beholder), doesnt exist the rogues without that skill, unless, i dont remember anyone.
EDIT: by the way, you dont read me, cause before i said that the rogues need takes by surprise, but...
I'm not lying, you're just a terribad rogue. Stealth > spam CoS > they either die or blink twice > hit impossible to catch before stealth ends for 5 sec immunity > jump towards them and do 3x impact shot = dead CW.
My impact shots have crit up to 10k and that's just one thanks to overrun critical.
I do this day in and day out in my matches. With the right gear and enchants, they can die just from CoS spam. It seems like Dragon server is the pvp server of neverwinter. L2P
Smokebombs are useless unless you have a premade with two clerics AS stacking. So many rogues drop smokebomb thinking I have to go in to melee them if my CoS charges are over. They get one heck of a surprise when I sit outside the smokebomb radius spamming impact shots and killing them.
Or how about when rogues drop smokebomb on a CW and the CW just walks out of it. Like most terribad rogues, they chase the CW because they don't have range encounters on their bar once their CoS is done. Then the CW pushes the rogue back > green beam of death > Ice knife and you have terribad rogues like yourself come into the forums crying about how CWs are OP.
I want them to nerf SE simply because competent rogues will instantly switch to LA and then a huge wave of whine will arise.
What people don't understand is that for competent rogue/CW SE/IK are something like ritual killing tools. I mean I see a guy, put a conduit+2RoEs on him and then I try to use my daily on him. My top crit was 38k in pvp so far, could be bigger if not for the broken shadow weaver set, put the thing is - he should stand still, not using any CC on me or dodging any abilities in order for this crit to be possible, while in the same situation I could be fine with doing a fast single RoE+EF and kill him with autoattacks. It's a fun tool, no more, no less and it rarely affects the result of the fight, besides no one has 38k hp in pvp anyway.
Most of the PvP playerbase don't seem to understand that 99% of those "huge crits" are made with RoE. My fellow guardian fighter who's playing for less then a week at lvl 60, fully geared, etc. etc., former wow gladiator is able to crit people for 16-20k this way, while it his situation it's not like it matters anyway since he can kill almost every class and build by pressing 3 bottons in a row, each critting for 7-9k, yet CW and TRs are still considered very overpowered. Not "easy to play" or "a bit overpowered", but people picture them like the most incompetent rogue can wipe the floor with the top geared and super skilled %classname%, which is not true of course, and if this is the case - the %classname%'s player is simply bad.
Talking about TR vs CW fights - there is no chance CW can win a competent rogue in a 1v1 fight. Spam of ranged abilities from stealth forces you to dodge it and look for a rogue to CC him to prevent this damage, but if you do so you come in range of lashing blade and SE, if you won't do it - you'll die to his ranged abilities. If TR have his dailies up it's no chance at all - it's either lashing blade + SE combo which will kill you immidiately unless you dodge the initial LB, or, to be more safe - ranged spam + shocking execution from stealth. Even if we'll imagine that they don't have a SE, your prayers are answered and now there is no more scary 20-40k crits, a competent rogue will slot lurker's assault and you'll have a machine which won't go out of stealth for a really long period of time, while having 60% more damage for the duration on top of rogues' usual bonus crit damage while striking from stealth.
So in order to win TR as a CW - CW must outplay this rogue by quite alot, but to be more exact - rogue must be bad, since with simple steps listed above there is nothing CW can actually do, atleast if he won't slot steal time especially for this fight.
But yeah on practice I'm often able to kill a rogue, but that's not about me being good or something, it's just TR players, ~40% of which don't even know they can attack from stealth without showing up.
Comments
+1
Agree. Shocking Execution is just like a death sentence~. when you left 3/4 life, good luck to you~
Meh. It's an execute, i would expect an execute to do a ton of damage. Especially a 50 point power one. The problem I and others have is that even if you try and get out of the way when you see the daggers in the animation, and even if DODGE pops up on your screen in red...it still hits. It could be lag, or whatever, if my screen says dodge, I should dodge.
Heh, you almost make it sound like an actual shocking execution.
It is pretty powerful though, IF it lands. It's telegraphed pretty well and takes quite a while to set up.
It's also a pretty sight to see a TR jump in the air for the finisher... and then have him dangle in the air due to a CW's choke. TR's daily gone, TR gone.
I dont think you could dodge or block it~
>throw daggers in stealth/Lashing Strike depend on what you love (make sure they are 3/4 in life)
>shocking execution
>profit
Ice knife also hits that hard from full health, has long range and is harder to avoid, oh, and it causes knockdown if it doesn't kill you.
In most cases, shocking execution only hits the high numbers if the enemy's hp was so low that lashing blades would have killed them anyway.
Shocking execution is a horribly over rated daily, most of the time, you are better off using Lurker's assault.
Astral shield is still the most impacting ability in the game, at level 60 PvP, damage is so high that GFs and GWFs can also kill people in 2-3 hits. So, everyone's dying in a few hits, makes things even (except for wizards crazy range +CC)... till the cleric puts down astral shield, now one team takes no damage, but the team without a cleric, still dies in a few hits. It makes the match completely one-sided, all from just one ability. Clerics may not be getting the kills, but they are the ones wining the game.
Astral shield is just a huge problem, not only for its dominance in PvP, but it also lets clerics tank better than a GF in PvE, so no one wants guardian fighters in their party. Not only that, but Astral shield is so powerful, that it makes the rest of the clerics kit redundant. What really needs to be done, is for Astral shield to be nerfed hard, and the rest of a clerics kit to be buffed up, so their other abilities can compete with Astral shield... and yes, I realised I trailed off topic a bit there. sorry for that.
(Edit to avoid double post)
You can dodge it, you need to dodge at the last moment though, when the rogue is at the top of his jump. Its difficult to do but with practice its possible. Though really, you are better off just interrupting him, it has a huge start up on it and any form of disable will just stop it.
Also at 3/4 hp, shocking execution won't kill, unless there's a serious gear score difference. Its damage scales with missing hp, so at 3/4 it will not hit that hard, usually need to be half hp or lower before it will kill.
The biggest problem with pvp for GWF I noticed is if you get stunned by CW or TR, you can't use unstoppable the entire pvp match (this has happened to me about 25% of the time).
That's like a TR not having stealth the entire battle. Another issue is broken abilities that have 1 animation frame that interrupt other moves, such as dailies. I'm not talking about knock backs or stuns either. I'm talking you hit the button, before they do...yet your move is canceled.
I've also had many scenarios where I couldn't even unstoppable under a debuff, such as stun, being choked by a CW, will not activate (this happens probably about 65% of the time, though it may be different if x2 people are doing the same move on you at the same time). Yet in pve, I've been able to activate unstoppable in almost every single debuff state.
I even used a move that makes me dash at the person, and is "supposed" to make them prone. The dash worked, but prone was canceled. I feel some prone moves work 100% of the time, other moves never finish. I realize that in real time of the action, it has to finish for it to actually have played out.
Another big issue is when you que for pvp. So many times I've had 4 vs 5, or 3 vs 5, because the game doesn't figure out that the teams are unbalanced. Plus there's the bug where nobody is teleported to the pvp arena, and just stays where they are till everyone is booted.
I'm sure you guys have already spoken your two cents, I'm just tossing in mine. I realize that this is open beta, and bugs are bound to happen. I'm not raging about it saying "fix this now". As long as someday it actually is fixed.
Most MMO i've seen that do pvp, typically scale things differently in pvp, such as damage. Damage is normally dumbed down, because some numbers you can do in pve are just unrealistic vs a players hp pool. Bosses on the other hand can have millions of hp, which requires you to do 65k+ dmg.
There's alot of terrain issues in regards to having absolute advantage. Thankfully there's no rangers with bows, cause we'd all be getting 1 shoted snipped all day long
I found that with more lag, the discrepancy between client-side dodge and server acknowledging this gets larger.
It would also depend where on the map I was fighting as well. On the map with the stone stairs between 2 and 3, or 2 and 1, my FPS always drops dramatically. Every time. Not so much on the points themselves, but any where else on the map I find the lag gets worse. Dodges do not happen as soon as I press the button, and obviously attacks are not dodged even when I do get the dodge off.
I've yet to come across a game where I have this much lag in pvp. Even 40v40 matches on other mmos I have zero problems. It seems Neverwinter is not only in need class balance, but also a upgrade to their pvp aspect.
I got the last piece of pvp gear for my CW earlier. I have decided not to pvp again until these matters are fixed. Class balance, server to client reliability, new maps, new objectives.
I came here from GW2, so capture the point had already been old and bland to me. I have no idea why this has become some sort of default pvp style for new games, but it's a bad one.
Yes it's really OP and the dmg portion should be removed. And you still have 2 Dodge Rolls after that, then you can stealth and run away. So what are we supose to do, stand there and let you hit us for 3-4-5 seconds, moast fights doesn't even last that long. Combine that with Daze or Smoke Screen and thats another 3-4-5 seconds you can stand there and stab us. Can't see how gamebreakin that is in PVP? Also GF and GWF at will's doesn't come close to the ones of CW and TR's thats why we blow our encounters fast. It's the ONLY way we do dmg. Even if a GWF activates unstoppeble the damage output is terrible. And moast of the time you can dodge our encounters anyway. GF have a massivly bugged block skill thats got 1 or 2 seconds delay. GWF's can't dodge at all and moast of TR's abillites lock onto target even if we run away, or around you to try and dodge/flank.
Edit:
Or while activated TR's get Dazed emself, that works to.
The damage portion can't be removed because it's utterly necessary in PvE, when we are the ones attacking the bosses.
I thought this discussion was about us being too tanky, not our ability to slink away from fights. Of course we have dodges and stealth, we are rogues. This situation of a Trickster Rogue popping Impossible to Catch, then dodging, then stealthing to escape; may be annoying, but it's isn't a sign of being overpowered. It's a sign of the Trickster Rogue playing like the sneaky character is it. And let's not forget that the effectiveness of "stealth" is largely mitigated do to a targeting radius remaining on your character after you pop it.
Yeah, if you're dying in 3 seconds, then there's not much that can be done to help you. Especially in group combat, which is where GWF and GW should always be in.
No I can't. Mostly because you can use Lashing Blade in this fictional scenario of the Trickster Rogue who only uses utility spells on his bar.
Sounds like your class is underpowered and needs a buff. I don't see why you're complaining about the TR at all.
I play GF and certainly I disagree completely with us being underpowered and needing a buff. Also our at wills are brilliant, to say otherwise is silly.
One lunge tech that can stick us to pretty much enemy class, fully spammable. and provides aoe taunt.
and an cleave attack that does good damage augmented by the right perks, and it hits multiple targets at one.
If anything our at wills are among the best of any classes, they augment our playing style perfectly.
GWF I agree is underpowered, rogues can walk up to them and toe to toe them easily.
Maybe you aren't meant to kill everything? Maybe some other class is supposed to kill CWs? Maybe a class that can break and sustain CC immunity while maybe getting damage mitigation?
You're wasting your stealth. Stealth > spam CoS > they're either dead or they blinked twice > hit impossible to catch before stealth ends to get 5 sec immunity > jump towards them and spam impact shot x3 > they die or live if they have soulforged.
I do this day in and day out. There are so many ledges in pvp maps that it's easy to mount up, flank them from behind by jumping off a ledge and while in mid-air, hit stealth and start spamming CoS. This works in the castle zone from all three points and the 2nd point in the other map.
Play the rogue class as it is meant to be played, a sneaky *******.
I'm sad that people who don't fully understand the game are asking for rebalancing when it isn't necessary. I enjoy pvp on all my toons, and I personally don't feel like rebalancing is necessary mainly because each class is strong in it's own way.
People do this, which is why you mostly see TR and CW in PVP. People realize how crazy OP they are and stick with it.
Not exactly. What we have are almost entirely purely random teams of people thrown together by the queue and TR is far and away the best scoring "solo" class with CW being second. TR because of the burst damage and stealth to avoid deaths and CW because of the ranged damage and mezzes. A good premade team with a DC and 1-2 GFs, 1 CW, and 1-2 TR will wreck a team of all TRs or all CWs or a team made up of a mix of those two classes.
Talking about balance in MMOs is almost never about random groups and we haven't even seen what the actual meta game looks like because everything is random <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
puff, you are really wrong.
They can dodge you said, i guess u are talking about "impossible to catch"? ok, well, in that case, you need lazhing blade and the bomb, so you dont have impact shock. You gonna chose impact shock? then you dont have lazing blade. You need 2 encounters with damage.
There is only 1 skill that all rogues use, and it is the bomb. The rest of skills, execution, lazhing blade and the others whatever.
Survivality you said, pufff, men, comon, are you play a rogue? cause if you say that, I cant believe you play this class. All rogues know that is impossible take a CW, they have more survivality than you, more range, the same damage, but how they can stack his damage on the distance, i can say that the cw in pvp has more damage than a rogue.
You said: "They are inmune to cc", other time i guess you are talking about impossible to catch, i dont know...
And the last you said, Deflection? What? comon, deflection dont avoid the nukes of the cw or the blows of the gfs...
You need undestand this, the only way for a rogue of kill a cw his shocking execution, if not, they just laugh of us.
PD: The rogue is far of be the best in pvp, the good gf destroy us, the gwf has chances and the cw is our blackbeast. But in one thing i have to give you the reason, we have many utility and that is our strong point in pvp. The rogue is the class that more need a good team cause he need take by surprise, and for that, your team must push the enemy.
I made 2 PvP videos to compare, so far I think each of them has a different pvp style:
TR has very high dps and can kill an opponent quickly, but also die easily if you got targeted.
Meanwhile, GWF is quite strong on defense and average dps, but you can still kill an opponent in 3 critical hits if you are good at timing your skills.
My TR pvp vid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEVoURrGq7k
My GWF pvp vid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAHRwEMRcXM
(My GWF is a bit better geared because it was my main :P - I still love her then)
In general, I think that TR is easy to play and can be very effect in PvP. While GWF/GF is quite hard to play; but still I met a lot of good GWF/GF (maybe they have good gear) and believe me, they are really badasses.
About the current balance, yep, TR has more advantages in both PvP and PvE, who doesn't love a quick kill.
You need to learn your class. This is more of a l2p issue in reality. If you don't use the element of surprise to your advantage as a TR, then you deserve to get stomped by a CW.
Edit: All rogues don't use smokebomb. It's the most overrated CC that we have. It does no damage and it's easy to walk out of it.
I feel the same way. In fact I am really impressed with the balance in the game. At level cap it isn't as much fun for me because everyone dies in a few hits from virtually any class. From 10-59 though-especially the level x0,1,2,3 and x9 the game balance feels good and you can have some fun longish/tactical fights, and unless you meet a player in all purples you can do fine in just a mishmash of questing gear.
L2p? LOL, do you expect i believe you defeat a cw? No even in dreams.1vs1, cw destroy the rogue, and if you denied that, you are lying.
Rogues dont use smokebomb? in my server (beholder), doesnt exist the rogues without that skill, unless, i dont remember anyone.
EDIT: by the way, you dont read me, cause before i said that the rogues need takes by surprise, but...
I'm not lying, you're just a terribad rogue. Stealth > spam CoS > they either die or blink twice > hit impossible to catch before stealth ends for 5 sec immunity > jump towards them and do 3x impact shot = dead CW.
My impact shots have crit up to 10k and that's just one thanks to overrun critical.
I do this day in and day out in my matches. With the right gear and enchants, they can die just from CoS spam. It seems like Dragon server is the pvp server of neverwinter. L2P
Or how about when rogues drop smokebomb on a CW and the CW just walks out of it. Like most terribad rogues, they chase the CW because they don't have range encounters on their bar once their CoS is done. Then the CW pushes the rogue back > green beam of death > Ice knife and you have terribad rogues like yourself come into the forums crying about how CWs are OP.
L2P
What people don't understand is that for competent rogue/CW SE/IK are something like ritual killing tools. I mean I see a guy, put a conduit+2RoEs on him and then I try to use my daily on him. My top crit was 38k in pvp so far, could be bigger if not for the broken shadow weaver set, put the thing is - he should stand still, not using any CC on me or dodging any abilities in order for this crit to be possible, while in the same situation I could be fine with doing a fast single RoE+EF and kill him with autoattacks. It's a fun tool, no more, no less and it rarely affects the result of the fight, besides no one has 38k hp in pvp anyway.
Most of the PvP playerbase don't seem to understand that 99% of those "huge crits" are made with RoE. My fellow guardian fighter who's playing for less then a week at lvl 60, fully geared, etc. etc., former wow gladiator is able to crit people for 16-20k this way, while it his situation it's not like it matters anyway since he can kill almost every class and build by pressing 3 bottons in a row, each critting for 7-9k, yet CW and TRs are still considered very overpowered. Not "easy to play" or "a bit overpowered", but people picture them like the most incompetent rogue can wipe the floor with the top geared and super skilled %classname%, which is not true of course, and if this is the case - the %classname%'s player is simply bad.
Talking about TR vs CW fights - there is no chance CW can win a competent rogue in a 1v1 fight. Spam of ranged abilities from stealth forces you to dodge it and look for a rogue to CC him to prevent this damage, but if you do so you come in range of lashing blade and SE, if you won't do it - you'll die to his ranged abilities. If TR have his dailies up it's no chance at all - it's either lashing blade + SE combo which will kill you immidiately unless you dodge the initial LB, or, to be more safe - ranged spam + shocking execution from stealth. Even if we'll imagine that they don't have a SE, your prayers are answered and now there is no more scary 20-40k crits, a competent rogue will slot lurker's assault and you'll have a machine which won't go out of stealth for a really long period of time, while having 60% more damage for the duration on top of rogues' usual bonus crit damage while striking from stealth.
So in order to win TR as a CW - CW must outplay this rogue by quite alot, but to be more exact - rogue must be bad, since with simple steps listed above there is nothing CW can actually do, atleast if he won't slot steal time especially for this fight.
But yeah on practice I'm often able to kill a rogue, but that's not about me being good or something, it's just TR players, ~40% of which don't even know they can attack from stealth without showing up.