It's very simple. No advantage creating items, no cash shoppers. No cash shoppers, no game.
Incorrect, there has been many online games that provide cosmetic only items with not statistical gain, and are still thriving today. League of Legends and GW2 are prime examples.
No its really not. Just because you choose to rate the value of your game experience based on what everyone else is doing doesn't make it so. You can either act like an entitled brat that feels the need to be handed everything or you can just enjoy the game. Not everyone is going to value the game the same way you do. Therefore you bring this conflict upon yourself.
I guarantee you that no matter what drops *I* get in the game, it will have zero effect on your gameplay. The only way that it would affect you is if you decide to be jeleous of something I have. I don't even have to brag about it, you just have to see me and decide that I'm better than you because I have something you don't. If you don't care what I have then what I do in the game is irrelevant.
There is no universal life score that is going to make you better or worse than me unless you chose to measure yourself that way. You can certainly feel proud of your accomplishments, but you are the one that gives them value, not me.
This assumption works as long as you assume that no two people will ever be in competition. This game has PvP, therefore it doesn't apply.
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iamdoctordeathMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Not paying a penny to play a well made game where you can in fact earn everything eventually just by playing the game- free
Complaining about grinding an entire week after launch- priceless
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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peterfsMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
You can get Everything in the game without paying. Those who do pay get it faster, as they should. You are not paying a dime, so it takes longer. Much longer. But you can still Acquire anything at all.
Says the guy that has to do zero work to beat everyone else in the game.
again you labeled people for there own views as asperger well goes back to the community thing again or the fact you maybe learning disabled yourself as you dont want to hear others views and brand them.
Says the guy that has to do zero work to beat everyone else in the game.
I wish. I still lose all the time in pvp. The only item I got that has any combat value was the greycloak's legacy weapon, which is comparable to a level 16 green item. At level 16, I am no different than any other player. What Can I get that you can't? Sure I can spend money to get things faster, but you are not excluded from ANYTHING in the game.
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elawynMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Incorrect, there has been many online games that provide cosmetic only items with not statistical gain, and are still thriving today. League of Legends and GW2 are prime examples.
GW2 is funded by the money of people pay to purchase the game. The deluxe digital edition is $80. LoL is funded by micro-transactions just like this game is. The items in LoL are not cosmetic only. You can buy skills, but like NWO, everything in the cash shop can be obtained in game.
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fmstalkerMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 3Arc User
Incorrect, there has been many online games that provide cosmetic only items with not statistical gain, and are still thriving today. League of Legends and GW2 are prime examples.
Wait...how does Guild Wars 2 count? It's not free to play. You can't play that without spending money, period.
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jorealMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Firstly I never said it was a mediocre game, in fact I rather like it but the zen store is pushing me away.
Secondly I did support the game, I bought the guardian pack and I would support more if stuff like bags weren't restricted to the zen store.
Thirdly, I am not ridiculing or condemning people for paying. What I am saying is that people who pay have too great an advantage over those who don't. Be that in gear quality, companion quality, or bag space. Look at a game like Tera, free to play but you can also but stuff on the store. Last time I checked (i haven't played tera in a bit) everything in the cash shop only gave a slight boost over people who don't sure the cash shop. Such as an exp boost or getting a mount at level 1. The gap between F2P people and people who use the cash shop is too big. And I would buy stuff off the cash shop but I don't want to support a game where people are gimped hard for not using the cash shop or spending hours upon hours grinding AD.
Lastly, It does affect my gameplay. For example in pvp if people buy better gear they instantly have an unfair advantage over me. Or the health stones on the store that people have begun to expect that you have if you want to do higher level dungeons. So yes as I said before it does affect my gameplay, and in a negative way.
I haven't been expected to have that. The items that you get only give you an advantage before you get to level 60. The weapons that you get aren't anywhere near the best in the game. So yes you get an advantage during your leveling, but at level 30 that is pretty much gone. PVP is way more about skill than it is about gear. I lose far more often to my team doing stupid things like fighting on the stairs than I do because I'm stomping the opponents due to my superior gear.
As for the health stones, they are full heals. Sounds like you need to find a cleric that doesn't suck and run with them. People are still learning how to run dungeons and the healing is difficult in this game. The Health Stones are an advantage, but you can buy potions with gold as well. Also you can buy everything from the store without spending a dime. That is the clear difference between this game and a game like Tera. Often they do not even give you the ability to convert all the way from in game grinding currency to the full paid currency. In this game they do so the only thing you are buying with cash is time.
I said if you don't like the game you don't have to support it. I didn't say that YOU didn't like the game, it is your choice what you do. As for other games they each make their own payment model. Just because some other game is cheaper doesn't make it better or worse. If you like Tera more then play Tera. I like this and find the prices fair.
Actually I did support the game by buying the guardian pack (i just dont know how to make it my title on the forums).
And I would happily support this game further but the fact that I have to pay for basic items like bags makes me not want to.
In other words I am speaking with my wallet. I have bought in game currency for other games like LOL, Warframe, and Smite because I think that they have a fair pricing structure and a fair way to get stuff from the cash shop in game.
You pay for them regardless in any decent MMO I've ever played. It usually takes me months to outfit a character in a game with bags. That time lost in grinding or crafting made those bags a hell of a lot more expensive than the measly $10 bags here I can outfit right now with the push of a button and get back to playing.
If I added up all the time I spent in WoW on bags, those puppies cost me hundreds of dollars each.
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mutharexMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
again you labeled people for there own views as asperger well goes back to the community thing again or the fact you maybe learning disabled yourself as you dont want to hear others views and brand them.
Yeah I don't wanna hear other people views when they are very silly
This assumption works as long as you assume that no two people will ever be in competition. This game has PvP, therefore it doesn't apply.
PVP without any kind of ranking ladder. No Win-Loss ratio, nothing of the sort. So how do you even judge who is better in PVP? I'd like to see where this competition is going on because it isn't in the game.
Not to mention the gear you get from PVPing is better than anything you can buy in the shop. So cash shop doesn't even apply.
OP is a fool. I can enjoy Neverwinter for far cheaper than I can enjoy World of Warcraft or any other subscription based games. Go buy WoW and it's expansions for $60+ and then pay $15/mo. I can enjoy Neverwinter for far less. $10/mo lets me get anything I need or want from the store. You can enjoy the game for free too, but Neverwinter is far more value than any subscription based game.
10$ a month gets anything you need or want from the store? What the hell are you buying? Have you actually purchased anything in the cash shop? I looked last night, and to buy a mount, it was going to cost me 40 dollars in real money. 40....freaking...dollars...for a mount. What other game does that? I'm not bashing the cash shop, and 10 dollars a month SHOULD theoretically be able to buy you whatever you want in a month...but the prices are insane, and, while I have money, I certainly will not purchase anything until the prices come down...
Yes, it is. The fact that it isn't for you doesn't make it less so for anyone else.
Methinks you have just hoisted yourself upon your own petard. If you are viewing this as a competition, therein lies the problem. Many (including myself) do not, at least not in the implied "haves vs. have-nots" sense that seems to get at the crux of the argument here.
Because I don't have the material means of a Bill Gates does not somehow diminish my sense of worth, my dignity, and many other, far more valuable, intangibles. Not only am I happy, but I can freely rejoice for others who have achieved some measure of success without feeling left out, estranged or disenfranchised.
The onus is on you to objectively and demonstrably prove that a) everyone does or should view this as a competitive environment, and b) there is an unfair disparity that cannot eventually be breached through personal time and effort.
10$ a month gets anything you need or want from the store? What the hell are you buying? Have you actually purchased anything in the cash shop? I looked last night, and to buy a mount, it was going to cost me 40 dollars in real money. 40....freaking...dollars...for a mount. What other game does that? I'm not bashing the cash shop, and 10 dollars a month SHOULD theoretically be able to buy you whatever you want in a month...but the prices are insane, and, while I have money, I certainly will not purchase anything until the prices come down...
You can buy a mount with gold and upgrade it to the highest speed with AD. Not sure why you need to buy a mount with cash.
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romaruMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 3Arc User
edited May 2013
Need a mod to lock this thread. OP isn't making much sense, nor does trying to talk to some sense into him make sense. Albeit it's a 'general' discussion points are just going back and forth and the same ideals or opinions on the game are being recycled over and over with different titles.
My point is simple and so is the point of every other player looking at the game objectively.
1)You either spend money to reduce the amount of time and labor you put into the game allowing a faster progression.
2)You take advantage of the the you spend in-game and learn/master the arts of manipulating the loopholes in the systems design.
In any system in the world be it in a game, casino(gambling), the economy(IRL or In-game) there are and will always be loopholes. Sure it may take more time and cause you more stress but the only thing stopping you from overcoming the reality of this world and this game is YOU.
PVP without any kind of ranking ladder. No Win-Loss ratio, nothing of the sort. So how do you even judge who is better in PVP? I'd like to see where this competition is going on because it isn't in the game.
Not to mention the gear you get from PVPing is better than anything you can buy in the shop. So cash shop doesn't even apply.
How do you judge who is better in PvP? The winner....
Need a mod to lock this thread. OP isn't making much sense, nor does trying to talk to some sense into him make sense. Albeit it's a 'general' discussion points are just going back and forth and the same ideals or opinions on the game are being recycled over and over with different titles.
My point is simple and so is the point of every other player looking at the game objectively.
1)You either spend money to reduce the amount of time and labor you put into the game allowing a faster progression.
2)You take advantage of the the you spend in-game and learn/master the arts of manipulating the loopholes in the systems design.
In any system in the world be it in a game, casino(gambling), the economy(IRL or In-game) there are and will always be loopholes. Sure it may take more time and cause you more stress but the only thing stopping you from overcoming the reality of this world and this game is YOU.
Regards,
Decadence
Regardless of how you feel about it, buying power in a game is wrong.
You pay for them regardless in any decent MMO I've ever played. It usually takes me months to outfit a character in a game with bags. That time lost in grinding or crafting made those bags a hell of a lot more expensive than the measly $10 bags here I can outfit right now with the push of a button and get back to playing.
If I added up all the time I spent in WoW on bags, those puppies cost me hundreds of dollars each.
Really? $100 each? and months to get them? The first time I played wow I got all my bag slots by the second week and I only put in about 2h per day. Just sold mining stuff and got money. but in this game 1 bag = $10. and last time I checked the conversion rate of AD to Zen was 480AD:1 zen. So 480 000 AD for 1 bag. and seeing that you can only gain (correct me if i'm wrong) 28000 AD per day through refining and about 7000 through dailies. Getting a bag, which should just be a drop, is going to take a while.
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fmstalkerMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 3Arc User
10$ a month gets anything you need or want from the store? What the hell are you buying? Have you actually purchased anything in the cash shop? I looked last night, and to buy a mount, it was going to cost me 40 dollars in real money. 40....freaking...dollars...for a mount. What other game does that? I'm not bashing the cash shop, and 10 dollars a month SHOULD theoretically be able to buy you whatever you want in a month...but the prices are insane, and, while I have money, I certainly will not purchase anything until the prices come down...
And why isn't 10 dollars accurate?
That's 120 a year, yes? How many mounts do you need? One. For 40 bucks, that means if you only buy a mount, you spent less than 10 a month.
And you don't have to buy a mount in the store. You can get one in game and upgrade it, and never spend a dime.
Really? $100 each? and months to get them? The first time I played wow I got all my bag slots by the second week and I only put in about 2h per day. Just sold mining stuff and got money. but in this game 1 bag = $10. and last time I checked the conversion rate of AD to Zen was 480AD:1 zen. So 480 000 AD for 1 bag. and seeing that you can only gain (correct me if i'm wrong) 28000 AD per day through refining and about 7000 through dailies. Getting a bag, which should just be a drop, is going to take a while.
Don't need to refine AD from the AH.
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malign99Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 6Arc User
Incorrect, there has been many online games that provide cosmetic only items with not statistical gain, and are still thriving today. League of Legends and GW2 are prime examples.
Sorry, LoL is the same as here. You can buy +xp and +rp, rune pages = bags. Those things give you an advantage over other players.
I will say this again as it doesn't seem to stick with you. Time and money is really what you have a problem with. It is not my fault or others that you choose to play this game how you do. You either grind it out or spend both get to the same exact place. Get over it.
You can buy a mount with gold and upgrade it to the highest speed with AD. Not sure why you need to buy a mount with cash.
Because it's a vanity item. And it's a shop. Therefore, as a consumer, I believe I can voice my opinion about what the price point is. I like the mount. I think it's cool (the warg, in this case). But worth 40 dollars? No, not at all, and not to me. I don't even care about the speed of the **** thing. But being an open and free market, the only way the price will get lowered is if people on the whole think it's too high. So that's why I'm voicing my opinion about it. If "X" percent of the population is projected to spend "Y" amount of money in the shop, but they don't because the prices are too high, then they'll have to lower them. Simple economics. Maybe I'm the odd one out, maybe I'm not. But I will say that in my opinion, 40 is insane for a vanity mount. 10 dollars is generally what people will feel comfortable spending on a F2P game on a monthly basis, between 10 and 15 I'd say (the price of a normal MMO). But there's not much (at the moment) that you can really get with that.
That's 120 a year, yes? How many mounts do you need? One. For 40 bucks, that means if you only buy a mount, you spent less than 10 a month.
Not to mention it's a one time purchase for all your characters. It becomes 'free' instead of costing zen in the store once you purchase it the first time.
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jorealMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
How do you judge who is better in PvP? The winner....
The winner of any given match? Okay so that would mean you are saying that I have a distinct advantage over you in PVP because I bought the founders pack. I don't. Someone who PVP's a lot and buys the PVP gear will stomp my face in if all I'm wearing is the gear I got from my founder's pack.
You overestimate the power of the items that come from the shop. You get 1 blue weapon that is decent up to about level 20. You get one stack of 200 health stones that you can't use in PVP. So what items do I have from the cash shop that are giving me an advantage again?
Comments
Incorrect, there has been many online games that provide cosmetic only items with not statistical gain, and are still thriving today. League of Legends and GW2 are prime examples.
This assumption works as long as you assume that no two people will ever be in competition. This game has PvP, therefore it doesn't apply.
Complaining about grinding an entire week after launch- priceless
Says the guy that has to do zero work to beat everyone else in the game.
again you labeled people for there own views as asperger well goes back to the community thing again or the fact you maybe learning disabled yourself as you dont want to hear others views and brand them.
I wish. I still lose all the time in pvp. The only item I got that has any combat value was the greycloak's legacy weapon, which is comparable to a level 16 green item. At level 16, I am no different than any other player. What Can I get that you can't? Sure I can spend money to get things faster, but you are not excluded from ANYTHING in the game.
Way overpowered and needs a serious nerfing. Please take it back to the dealer for nerfing!
But it does fit the symptoms very well
GW2 is funded by the money of people pay to purchase the game. The deluxe digital edition is $80. LoL is funded by micro-transactions just like this game is. The items in LoL are not cosmetic only. You can buy skills, but like NWO, everything in the cash shop can be obtained in game.
Wait...how does Guild Wars 2 count? It's not free to play. You can't play that without spending money, period.
I haven't been expected to have that. The items that you get only give you an advantage before you get to level 60. The weapons that you get aren't anywhere near the best in the game. So yes you get an advantage during your leveling, but at level 30 that is pretty much gone. PVP is way more about skill than it is about gear. I lose far more often to my team doing stupid things like fighting on the stairs than I do because I'm stomping the opponents due to my superior gear.
As for the health stones, they are full heals. Sounds like you need to find a cleric that doesn't suck and run with them. People are still learning how to run dungeons and the healing is difficult in this game. The Health Stones are an advantage, but you can buy potions with gold as well. Also you can buy everything from the store without spending a dime. That is the clear difference between this game and a game like Tera. Often they do not even give you the ability to convert all the way from in game grinding currency to the full paid currency. In this game they do so the only thing you are buying with cash is time.
I said if you don't like the game you don't have to support it. I didn't say that YOU didn't like the game, it is your choice what you do. As for other games they each make their own payment model. Just because some other game is cheaper doesn't make it better or worse. If you like Tera more then play Tera. I like this and find the prices fair.
You pay for them regardless in any decent MMO I've ever played. It usually takes me months to outfit a character in a game with bags. That time lost in grinding or crafting made those bags a hell of a lot more expensive than the measly $10 bags here I can outfit right now with the push of a button and get back to playing.
If I added up all the time I spent in WoW on bags, those puppies cost me hundreds of dollars each.
Yeah I don't wanna hear other people views when they are very silly
PVP without any kind of ranking ladder. No Win-Loss ratio, nothing of the sort. So how do you even judge who is better in PVP? I'd like to see where this competition is going on because it isn't in the game.
Not to mention the gear you get from PVPing is better than anything you can buy in the shop. So cash shop doesn't even apply.
10$ a month gets anything you need or want from the store? What the hell are you buying? Have you actually purchased anything in the cash shop? I looked last night, and to buy a mount, it was going to cost me 40 dollars in real money. 40....freaking...dollars...for a mount. What other game does that? I'm not bashing the cash shop, and 10 dollars a month SHOULD theoretically be able to buy you whatever you want in a month...but the prices are insane, and, while I have money, I certainly will not purchase anything until the prices come down...
Methinks you have just hoisted yourself upon your own petard. If you are viewing this as a competition, therein lies the problem. Many (including myself) do not, at least not in the implied "haves vs. have-nots" sense that seems to get at the crux of the argument here.
Because I don't have the material means of a Bill Gates does not somehow diminish my sense of worth, my dignity, and many other, far more valuable, intangibles. Not only am I happy, but I can freely rejoice for others who have achieved some measure of success without feeling left out, estranged or disenfranchised.
The onus is on you to objectively and demonstrably prove that a) everyone does or should view this as a competitive environment, and b) there is an unfair disparity that cannot eventually be breached through personal time and effort.
Will /danceseductive for ZEN. :cool:
You can buy a mount with gold and upgrade it to the highest speed with AD. Not sure why you need to buy a mount with cash.
My point is simple and so is the point of every other player looking at the game objectively.
1)You either spend money to reduce the amount of time and labor you put into the game allowing a faster progression.
2)You take advantage of the the you spend in-game and learn/master the arts of manipulating the loopholes in the systems design.
In any system in the world be it in a game, casino(gambling), the economy(IRL or In-game) there are and will always be loopholes. Sure it may take more time and cause you more stress but the only thing stopping you from overcoming the reality of this world and this game is YOU.
Regards,
Decadence
How do you judge who is better in PvP? The winner....
Regardless of how you feel about it, buying power in a game is wrong.
Team effort in PVP here. Or all winning teams full of Founders?
Really? $100 each? and months to get them? The first time I played wow I got all my bag slots by the second week and I only put in about 2h per day. Just sold mining stuff and got money. but in this game 1 bag = $10. and last time I checked the conversion rate of AD to Zen was 480AD:1 zen. So 480 000 AD for 1 bag. and seeing that you can only gain (correct me if i'm wrong) 28000 AD per day through refining and about 7000 through dailies. Getting a bag, which should just be a drop, is going to take a while.
This.
And why isn't 10 dollars accurate?
That's 120 a year, yes? How many mounts do you need? One. For 40 bucks, that means if you only buy a mount, you spent less than 10 a month.
And you don't have to buy a mount in the store. You can get one in game and upgrade it, and never spend a dime.
What exactly is the problem?
Don't need to refine AD from the AH.
Sorry, LoL is the same as here. You can buy +xp and +rp, rune pages = bags. Those things give you an advantage over other players.
I will say this again as it doesn't seem to stick with you. Time and money is really what you have a problem with. It is not my fault or others that you choose to play this game how you do. You either grind it out or spend both get to the same exact place. Get over it.
Because it's a vanity item. And it's a shop. Therefore, as a consumer, I believe I can voice my opinion about what the price point is. I like the mount. I think it's cool (the warg, in this case). But worth 40 dollars? No, not at all, and not to me. I don't even care about the speed of the **** thing. But being an open and free market, the only way the price will get lowered is if people on the whole think it's too high. So that's why I'm voicing my opinion about it. If "X" percent of the population is projected to spend "Y" amount of money in the shop, but they don't because the prices are too high, then they'll have to lower them. Simple economics. Maybe I'm the odd one out, maybe I'm not. But I will say that in my opinion, 40 is insane for a vanity mount. 10 dollars is generally what people will feel comfortable spending on a F2P game on a monthly basis, between 10 and 15 I'd say (the price of a normal MMO). But there's not much (at the moment) that you can really get with that.
The golam companion is 30 dollars. Just examples.
Your opinion is not definitive therefore it does matter how others feel.
Not to mention it's a one time purchase for all your characters. It becomes 'free' instead of costing zen in the store once you purchase it the first time.
The winner of any given match? Okay so that would mean you are saying that I have a distinct advantage over you in PVP because I bought the founders pack. I don't. Someone who PVP's a lot and buys the PVP gear will stomp my face in if all I'm wearing is the gear I got from my founder's pack.
You overestimate the power of the items that come from the shop. You get 1 blue weapon that is decent up to about level 20. You get one stack of 200 health stones that you can't use in PVP. So what items do I have from the cash shop that are giving me an advantage again?