One of the best things I have read so far in the forums (and not sure if it's good or not) is this....
GF - Tanks Boss
TR - Dmg on boss
CW - controls adds
GWF - kills adds
Cleric obviously keeps everyone alive.
This to me seems perfect in dungeons. As to your statement for running your duo or even solo, It's hard to keep every mob off your party. Almost impossible it seems. I am still low level GF so I feel your pain. But like Slayer said, I'm either #1 or #2 in damage given and ALWAYS #1 in damage taken. Plus, if you have aggro on other mobs and one is attacking your cleric, just focus on the mob on your cleric. you can take tons of damage. Just takes time to get used to. And once you do get used to it, it's really fun to play and you can start controlling mobs a little better.
If everyone would learn this, fights would be so much better, best advice i seen on the forums to date
First, a disclaimer: I'm only lvl 45, not the best but not the worst GF and I've tanked a fair share of instances and skirmishes. These are just my thoughts. (I've also tanked in Rift, LOTRO, WoW, GW2 insofar as there were 'tanks', and so on)
1) I'm finding that threat is not static in this game (e.g. there isn't a 'memory' for threat for more than maybe a few seconds of combat, thus if you're not stabbing something actively, it will go chew on someone else). Hence, keeping mark on and at will stabbing things as much as you can is important.
2) Getting things close enough together that you can zip around marking them with threatening rush is very helpful, and having them all stand on top of one another for the stab at will micro-aoe is even better. This doesn't work on ranged mobs, obviously, but they tend to be less dangerous to squishies (I don't even really tank casters usually. Let the rogue/cw deal with them).
3) Buff all your threat feats, this includes the at-will damage bonuses, strength, etc. Enhanced mark and the reflect passive for trash (or the 5% control bonus one, if you have enough cc in group), villain's menace/supremacy of steel for dailies. Alternatively, fighter's recovery (if you lack a cleric or getting beat down a lot) may help - with threat too, due to healing threat, if you have enough encounter powers to make it worthwhile (I personally like griffon's wrath for the 3 charges).
4) Save the aoe taunt for when things start to get hairy. DON'T taunt everything on the map, because your guard WILL break and you WILL die if there are enough mobs on you, even if they are all weak individually. Let the dps aoe stuff down and focus on the big guys.
5) Some mobs are slow enough that they don't need to be tanked: let the dps kite/kill them. Worry about things they can't handle.
6) Don't bother with an actual dps at-will (e.g. cleave or the cudgel one). Get threatening rush and shield slam. Most of the time you will be guard stabbing/slamming things, but the unguarded shield slam can be useful to get more guard back and to debuff mobs if you can time it right. Any other unguarded attacks will take off your mark. Unmarked things like to drop threat.
7) Don't be afraid to pop potions. Sometimes you need to fend for yourself.
8) RUN away. Sounds dumb, but sometimes you have to run like a little girl when your guard breaks and you're getting wailed on. If the dps isn't doing their job and the ads are piling on, the only thing you can do (other than wipe) is to just buy time by keeping them busy without dying. Doesn't always work but can clutch a fight in some cases (that stupid dragon skirmish... hate it so much).
You can tank and hold agro in this game without feating Potent Challenge or running the Class Feature Enhanced Mark. It's a different style of gameplay than relying on DPS, and I have a Tactician build for it here:
1. Singularity and other CW Dailies generate a lot of threat for them. Focus on applying damage on the add-ball at the point when the singularity is ending and the add is being released, and you should have it when they are no longer being controlled. Use an AoE, like Cleave, Enforced Threat or Frontline.
2. If you want to hold a boss, use Knight's Challenge. I can hold a boss with a Tactician Spec, running ITF while a GWF is on the other side doing 10 million damage in 5 minutes.
3. Let go of the concept of your shield as something you use to block damage per se. Your Guard should never break. If it does, you've done something wrong. It's a little breathing space if you need a pot to come back up, get something to follow you while you back up, or to get out of a red-CC area. If a boss you are tanking directs a front-cone damage attack at you, don't use your Guard to block it all. Put up your Guard and move to the side until you are no longer taking damage.
4. Learn what can and can't be taunted, and don't sweat the latter. Some add and bosses are unagroable. If it jumps or teleports, that's a good clue. Werewolves, for example. That's what control wizards are for, if it's add. If it's a boss, that's what Clerics are for.
5. While you are leveling up, nothing beats Enforced Threat for mobs, or Knee Breaker for boss single-target. You will need to single-target a lot of things before TRs get their final skills (Impossible to Catch and Smoke Bomb).
6. Learn to stun-lock. A lot of Elite mob can be locked down while the rest of your party DPS-es them, and you can do this because you won't get squashed trying. Learn how to take an Elite mob and pin it in a corner or against a wall, then interrupt it's AoEs with Frontline, Bull Charge, Terrifying Impact, and Lunging Strike (if you Feat it in the Tacticians' tree).
Overall, I really enjoy being a GF in groups and it's a lot easier to get into dungeons than being a GWF, even a GWF tank. While it is too bad we got the least new goodies with Shadowmantle, you'll still be welcome in any party.
Funny you mention City of Heroes and the tanks being like the Tanker class in that game. I totally agree, and to be quite honest, everything about this game feels City of Heroes to me. I really really really believe that this game is built on the CoH engine (being as how both were developed by Cryptic) with some minor improvements, but generally everything being left the same.
If that's the case, it's a shame that all the armor looks the same. I'm level 20 and I still look like I'm level 1.
But that's a huge tangent from this thread and a topic for another time/forum.
Waaah COH I miss COH sooo much! Can't wait for the revival supposedly due out next year, if it's one tenth the game COH was it'll get my cash. I wish cryptic had bought it back before NC soft murdered it.
Comments
If everyone would learn this, fights would be so much better, best advice i seen on the forums to date
1) I'm finding that threat is not static in this game (e.g. there isn't a 'memory' for threat for more than maybe a few seconds of combat, thus if you're not stabbing something actively, it will go chew on someone else). Hence, keeping mark on and at will stabbing things as much as you can is important.
2) Getting things close enough together that you can zip around marking them with threatening rush is very helpful, and having them all stand on top of one another for the stab at will micro-aoe is even better. This doesn't work on ranged mobs, obviously, but they tend to be less dangerous to squishies (I don't even really tank casters usually. Let the rogue/cw deal with them).
3) Buff all your threat feats, this includes the at-will damage bonuses, strength, etc. Enhanced mark and the reflect passive for trash (or the 5% control bonus one, if you have enough cc in group), villain's menace/supremacy of steel for dailies. Alternatively, fighter's recovery (if you lack a cleric or getting beat down a lot) may help - with threat too, due to healing threat, if you have enough encounter powers to make it worthwhile (I personally like griffon's wrath for the 3 charges).
4) Save the aoe taunt for when things start to get hairy. DON'T taunt everything on the map, because your guard WILL break and you WILL die if there are enough mobs on you, even if they are all weak individually. Let the dps aoe stuff down and focus on the big guys.
5) Some mobs are slow enough that they don't need to be tanked: let the dps kite/kill them. Worry about things they can't handle.
6) Don't bother with an actual dps at-will (e.g. cleave or the cudgel one). Get threatening rush and shield slam. Most of the time you will be guard stabbing/slamming things, but the unguarded shield slam can be useful to get more guard back and to debuff mobs if you can time it right. Any other unguarded attacks will take off your mark. Unmarked things like to drop threat.
7) Don't be afraid to pop potions. Sometimes you need to fend for yourself.
8) RUN away. Sounds dumb, but sometimes you have to run like a little girl when your guard breaks and you're getting wailed on. If the dps isn't doing their job and the ads are piling on, the only thing you can do (other than wipe) is to just buy time by keeping them busy without dying. Doesn't always work but can clutch a fight in some cases (that stupid dragon skirmish... hate it so much).
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?536101-13k-Tactician-Guardian-Fighter-quot-Missionary-quot-Build-for-PVE
General Tips:
1. Singularity and other CW Dailies generate a lot of threat for them. Focus on applying damage on the add-ball at the point when the singularity is ending and the add is being released, and you should have it when they are no longer being controlled. Use an AoE, like Cleave, Enforced Threat or Frontline.
2. If you want to hold a boss, use Knight's Challenge. I can hold a boss with a Tactician Spec, running ITF while a GWF is on the other side doing 10 million damage in 5 minutes.
3. Let go of the concept of your shield as something you use to block damage per se. Your Guard should never break. If it does, you've done something wrong. It's a little breathing space if you need a pot to come back up, get something to follow you while you back up, or to get out of a red-CC area. If a boss you are tanking directs a front-cone damage attack at you, don't use your Guard to block it all. Put up your Guard and move to the side until you are no longer taking damage.
4. Learn what can and can't be taunted, and don't sweat the latter. Some add and bosses are unagroable. If it jumps or teleports, that's a good clue. Werewolves, for example. That's what control wizards are for, if it's add. If it's a boss, that's what Clerics are for.
5. While you are leveling up, nothing beats Enforced Threat for mobs, or Knee Breaker for boss single-target. You will need to single-target a lot of things before TRs get their final skills (Impossible to Catch and Smoke Bomb).
6. Learn to stun-lock. A lot of Elite mob can be locked down while the rest of your party DPS-es them, and you can do this because you won't get squashed trying. Learn how to take an Elite mob and pin it in a corner or against a wall, then interrupt it's AoEs with Frontline, Bull Charge, Terrifying Impact, and Lunging Strike (if you Feat it in the Tacticians' tree).
Overall, I really enjoy being a GF in groups and it's a lot easier to get into dungeons than being a GWF, even a GWF tank. While it is too bad we got the least new goodies with Shadowmantle, you'll still be welcome in any party.
inb4 teh lock!
Yes u are new to this, you are about like a kid in kindergarden, so no you dunno what is going on...
Waaah COH I miss COH sooo much! Can't wait for the revival supposedly due out next year, if it's one tenth the game COH was it'll get my cash. I wish cryptic had bought it back before NC soft murdered it.