I'm sorry, isn't this a beta? Where game bugs are meant to be found and squashed?
It's possible to fix the foundry eventually, although it will be so limited and cookie cutter no one will want to use it. I can almost guarantee this will be the end result of the foundry, as it's what's happened with every other 'make your own map' systems in MMO's that I've come across.
Also, I fondly remember having several power level maps in the COH architect that I would simply unlist when I was done power leveling. Easy way to avoid a ban, if no one can even find your map and you don't abuse it to the point of going from level one to sixty in an afternoon.
Putting the Foundry into a F2P game was probably their biggest mistake, but it's one I doubt they'll fix. I'm sure the permaban stick will be their favorite method of control, but with it being F2P that's at best a 15 level deterrent if you make sure and publish on a free account that doesn't contain your cash characters.
Ooops!
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
0
Options
luciferstwinMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I'm sorry, isn't this a beta? Where game bugs are meant to be found and squashed?
Well if that's your position, then losing access to the beta is no big deal either, right?
Putting the Foundry into a F2P game was probably their biggest mistake, but it's one I doubt they'll fix. I'm sure the permaban stick will be their favorite method of control, but with it being F2P that's at best a 15 level deterrent if you make sure and publish on a free account that doesn't contain your cash characters.
I guess you missed the most recent Foundry exploit in STO. They banned the users of the exploit, not just the creators.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
0
Options
lilura138Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Well if that's your position, then losing access to the beta is no big deal either, right?
It isn't. I can create another account in five minutes, level it to level 15 in five hours tops, and have another identical Foundry mission up pretty quick. It's still a free service on the part of the player providing input on the most broken aspects of the Foundry. Forgive me if I think a Beta game should fix exploits instead of leaving them in and banning people that use them. I suppose a ban is less work at the end of the day for the company.
It also means that your reward for finding an exploit is a ban.
I guess you missed the most recent Foundry exploit in STO. They banned the users of the exploit, not just the creators.
Oh groovy, well that tells me everything I need to know about their future plans on how to fix the Foundry. Don't. After all, if you ban people that paid good money for items giving them a permaban means that they have to buy all that stuff again, right?
(Although I will admit it's a good deterrent if you've paid real money. However, I think these people will simply quit after a ban, rather than generate more income.)
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
Simple fix: monitor character XP when they start and leave a Foundry quest, and if anyone manages to get more than a certain amount of XP/min auto-remove the quest until it can be reviewed.
It also means that your reward for finding an exploit is a ban.
No, your reward for using an exploit is a ban. Finding and reporting exploits has never resulted in a ban, but that's not what these people were doing.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
The only real deciding factor for me is if this is really a beta, or if it's really a launch.
They decided to call it an Open Beta, which isn't true, which is why I made the argument I made.
If this was a 'launch', which it is, then this would be less ok. I think they're more upset about the fact people bypassed all their money-walls by getting to max level so quickly. This allows them to dungeon run with 'Need' rolls across the board to auction stuff to those 10 million AD folks.
If this didn't allow people to bypass all the cash grabs, I'm almost 90% sure nothing would have been done about it.
And yes, I'm aware there are money grabs for level 60 stuff too. You just bypass all the middling <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> you're expected to shell out for on the way to level 60. Perhaps it's less of an issue than I make it out to be, no doubt it is, but it's still pretty transparent from where I'm sitting.
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
0
Options
denverralphyMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 145Bounty Hunter
edited May 2013
The "We're testing a beta aren't we?" argument is laughable. You're not testing anything, you're jumping on the opportunity to exploit a found bug or flaw. Testers are those who find bugs and report them, privately if can be exploited, and then refrains from taking advantage of it.
The only real deciding factor for me is if this is really a beta, or if it's really a launch.
They decided to call it an Open Beta, which isn't true, which is why I made the argument I made.
If this was a 'launch', which it is, then this would be less ok. I think they're more upset about the fact people bypassed all their money-walls by getting to max level so quickly. This allows them to dungeon run with 'Need' rolls across the board to auction stuff to those 10 million AD folks.
If this didn't allow people to bypass all the cash grabs, I'm almost 90% sure nothing would have been done about it.
And yes, I'm aware there are money grabs for level 60 stuff too. You just bypass all the middling <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> you're expected to shell out for on the way to level 60. Perhaps it's less of an issue than I make it out to be, no doubt it is, but it's still pretty transparent from where I'm sitting.
If it were an actual beta, where we were supposed to look for issues and report them, there would be a character wipe after - in order to clean out any unfair advantages gained from bugs and exploits.
Is there a wipe? No.
So, Cryptic's labels notwithstanding, this is release, not open beta.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
0
Options
lilura138Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
If it were an actual beta, where we were supposed to look for issues and report them, there would be a character wipe after - in order to clean out any unfair advantages gained from bugs and exploits.
Is there a wipe? No.
So, Cryptic's labels notwithstanding, this is release, not open beta.
You do know the main page of this site say, "NOW IN OPEN BETA"
You do know the main page of this site say, "NOW IN OPEN BETA"
Calling it Open Beta might be more of a cya kind of thing when it comes to any potential problems or downtime. As others are saying, there seems to be zero difference between this and an actual launch.
I also saw a note that the 3 shards will be merged at some point. Maybe that will be considered actual "launch day".
"Open Beta" for free to play games are basically launch. Calling it open beta is no reason to expect that they are going to respond differently to people exploiting the game.
That's the point I guess, that it is release but the 'open beta' label is still there to deflect criticism of various things. Namely, the Foundry's ability to be turned into a grind-mill that bypasses the entire game. The fact they're handing out bans for 'exploiting' in a beta is laughable at face value. That they're handing out bans for just running the maps, instead of creating them, is also pretty laughable.
I guess since it's F2P they can't afford to pay moderators to review player created content. That, or there aren't enough of them. I guess we should all go out and buy a $40 mount so that they can police this stuff better, huh?
EDIT: Basically it's their way of saying no they haven't tested the content, and no they don't know what the exploits are, but when you find and use one yes you will be banned. Essentially this says that they should have had another actual beta wave with a character wipe before going live. Obviously, they choose the path of getting money over the path of releasing a less buggy game.
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
'Tis but thy name that is my enemy;
Thou art thyself, though not a Montague.
What's Montague? it is nor hand, nor foot,
Nor arm, nor face, nor any other part
Belonging to a man. O, be some other name!
What's in a name? that which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet
0
Options
muzrub333Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Nice to see the Ban Hammer being liberally swung. Hope they roll back or delete the toons too.
GMail was in "beta" for five years. Also a "fact."
No one took that seriously either.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
Nice to see the Ban Hammer being liberally swung. Hope they roll back or delete the toons too.
Umm...so you want them to follow up a permaban with a roll back of the characters run by the banned players?
Sounds legit lol
As to the rest, I guess it's cool that you give them a pass for constant 'unexpected outages' since it's Beta but players need to be permabanned for using exploits because it's launch.
I mean 'you' non specifically, don't believe I lump you in with those defenders if you do not in fact support that position.
It's like you get the best of both worlds just for using 'Open Beta' instead of 'Launch'. Marketing genius at work.
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
0
Options
rakunenMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 19Arc User
edited May 2013
So what's the exploit they're hunting for? Large mob spawns, too many ogres without backup or just putting enemies in traps?
I hope this doesn't ruin the Foundry, it's already a fantastic alternate levelling path that is in many ways more interesting than the main one. If they nerf the xp and rewards into oblivion or put tons of restrictions on it they'll ruin the best part of the game.
I can see why they'd want to limit this but if it's the cost of having the Foundry being as vibrant and interesting as it is I hope they just let these players "Finish" the game and move on.
Always Looking for mature laidback players/rpers for Dungeon Delves!
0
Options
zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
edited May 2013
It is goon on you to admit your wrong doing as well as to warn others, however, due to the RoC, I must close this down:
No representing banned members.
Don't represent any banned individuals. They were banned for a reason. Assisting them in any way or form will lump you in the same boat. This includes posting from your alt to ask about one of your own characters being banned from the forums.
Exploiting is bad folks, please use common sense. If it's too good to be true, it probably is and may get you banned for exploiting.
Comments
It's possible to fix the foundry eventually, although it will be so limited and cookie cutter no one will want to use it. I can almost guarantee this will be the end result of the foundry, as it's what's happened with every other 'make your own map' systems in MMO's that I've come across.
Also, I fondly remember having several power level maps in the COH architect that I would simply unlist when I was done power leveling. Easy way to avoid a ban, if no one can even find your map and you don't abuse it to the point of going from level one to sixty in an afternoon.
Putting the Foundry into a F2P game was probably their biggest mistake, but it's one I doubt they'll fix. I'm sure the permaban stick will be their favorite method of control, but with it being F2P that's at best a 15 level deterrent if you make sure and publish on a free account that doesn't contain your cash characters.
Ooops!
We have, they just havent answered back yet... Emailed customerservice@perfectworld.com, and this is what I got back......
"Your question has been received. You should expect a response from us within 7-10 business days." Yea... **** that
My account says suspended, not banned.
Well if that's your position, then losing access to the beta is no big deal either, right?
I guess you missed the most recent Foundry exploit in STO. They banned the users of the exploit, not just the creators.
From what I notice with other games, players usually get a 24hr Suspend or a 3 day.
It isn't. I can create another account in five minutes, level it to level 15 in five hours tops, and have another identical Foundry mission up pretty quick. It's still a free service on the part of the player providing input on the most broken aspects of the Foundry. Forgive me if I think a Beta game should fix exploits instead of leaving them in and banning people that use them. I suppose a ban is less work at the end of the day for the company.
It also means that your reward for finding an exploit is a ban.
Oh groovy, well that tells me everything I need to know about their future plans on how to fix the Foundry. Don't. After all, if you ban people that paid good money for items giving them a permaban means that they have to buy all that stuff again, right?
(Although I will admit it's a good deterrent if you've paid real money. However, I think these people will simply quit after a ban, rather than generate more income.)
No, your reward for using an exploit is a ban. Finding and reporting exploits has never resulted in a ban, but that's not what these people were doing.
They decided to call it an Open Beta, which isn't true, which is why I made the argument I made.
If this was a 'launch', which it is, then this would be less ok. I think they're more upset about the fact people bypassed all their money-walls by getting to max level so quickly. This allows them to dungeon run with 'Need' rolls across the board to auction stuff to those 10 million AD folks.
If this didn't allow people to bypass all the cash grabs, I'm almost 90% sure nothing would have been done about it.
And yes, I'm aware there are money grabs for level 60 stuff too. You just bypass all the middling <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> you're expected to shell out for on the way to level 60. Perhaps it's less of an issue than I make it out to be, no doubt it is, but it's still pretty transparent from where I'm sitting.
If it were an actual beta, where we were supposed to look for issues and report them, there would be a character wipe after - in order to clean out any unfair advantages gained from bugs and exploits.
Is there a wipe? No.
So, Cryptic's labels notwithstanding, this is release, not open beta.
You do know the main page of this site say, "NOW IN OPEN BETA"
You believe what you want, but I noticed you paid 60 bucks. I call that release.
Its literally a fact.
Calling it Open Beta might be more of a cya kind of thing when it comes to any potential problems or downtime. As others are saying, there seems to be zero difference between this and an actual launch.
I also saw a note that the 3 shards will be merged at some point. Maybe that will be considered actual "launch day".
"Open Beta" for free to play games are basically launch. Calling it open beta is no reason to expect that they are going to respond differently to people exploiting the game.
I guess since it's F2P they can't afford to pay moderators to review player created content. That, or there aren't enough of them. I guess we should all go out and buy a $40 mount so that they can police this stuff better, huh?
EDIT: Basically it's their way of saying no they haven't tested the content, and no they don't know what the exploits are, but when you find and use one yes you will be banned. Essentially this says that they should have had another actual beta wave with a character wipe before going live. Obviously, they choose the path of getting money over the path of releasing a less buggy game.
'Tis but thy name that is my enemy;
Thou art thyself, though not a Montague.
What's Montague? it is nor hand, nor foot,
Nor arm, nor face, nor any other part
Belonging to a man. O, be some other name!
What's in a name? that which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet
GMail was in "beta" for five years. Also a "fact."
No one took that seriously either.
Umm...so you want them to follow up a permaban with a roll back of the characters run by the banned players?
Sounds legit lol
As to the rest, I guess it's cool that you give them a pass for constant 'unexpected outages' since it's Beta but players need to be permabanned for using exploits because it's launch.
I mean 'you' non specifically, don't believe I lump you in with those defenders if you do not in fact support that position.
It's like you get the best of both worlds just for using 'Open Beta' instead of 'Launch'. Marketing genius at work.
I hope this doesn't ruin the Foundry, it's already a fantastic alternate levelling path that is in many ways more interesting than the main one. If they nerf the xp and rewards into oblivion or put tons of restrictions on it they'll ruin the best part of the game.
I can see why they'd want to limit this but if it's the cost of having the Foundry being as vibrant and interesting as it is I hope they just let these players "Finish" the game and move on.
No representing banned members.
Don't represent any banned individuals. They were banned for a reason. Assisting them in any way or form will lump you in the same boat. This includes posting from your alt to ask about one of your own characters being banned from the forums.
Exploiting is bad folks, please use common sense. If it's too good to be true, it probably is and may get you banned for exploiting.
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]