I can add in that building making a halfling con/dex build with focus on survival (and the broken protector tree) is useless at even at lvl 40 every fight feels more like pulling teeth I remade a str/dex focused halfling TR and is blazing through encounters the GF suffered badly on.
I'm not surprised seeing as the GF wasn't intended to be a char for solo play, but in solo at least the mobs attack me...
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amajedMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 2Arc User
edited May 2013
For anyone saying that we should not compare tanking in WoW with the Tank here, well , yeah I agree you don't have to make a clone out of WoW . but atleast make the GF a must have in a dungeon , when I see some1 looking for a players for a T2 run and I asked if I can join they say no we don't need GF (my GS is 12K) so , if a 12K GF not wanted in a T2 , what am I good for anyway ?
I know I can hold aggro for the big boss , and tank everything he can do to me! not a problem
but also the TR , CW even the GWF can do this and still deal more damage than I do (I think I can deal almost the same damage once I hit my 4/4 set but once I do that I'm just another DPS for the team)
I don't really need a buff for the GF , just make some changes so the GF can be the only one who can face the Big boss and still live! nothing more.
and I've tested out a lot of rotations and stuff , the broken thing is the tanking in game not the GF it self, u can't really make every character able to tank almost any boss (like kiting and stuff) this will make the GF unwanted in a group
and other thing , please fix this broken Queue where we enter a T2 dungeon without a DC , in this game ! a DC is a must unlike the GF
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lwetMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Full 100% deflect/defense/HP tank Guardian Fighter. I have zero damage in my build, so taking damage or mobility encounter powers for PvE is useless for my party.
That means that for PvE:
- Knight's Challenge
- Enforced Threat
- Knight's Valor
Having trouble with Knockbacks? Your first Daily Villian's Menace gives you immunity.
Not enough threat? Enhanced mark gives an extra 33%.
Use Stab (block while attacking) to increase threat and Shield Slam to recover shield meter.
For PvP:
- Lunging Strike
- Griffon's Wrath
- Frontline Surge
Lunging strike isn't be enough to get those blinking/dashing Wizards and Clerics: Threatening Rush at-will.
I have no killing power so it's useless to defend the point closest to my team's spawn. I'm much more effective at attacking or camping on top of the other two points. Camp a point, pull two or three of the opposing team, last as long as you can, spawn/repeat.
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torquedsoulMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
I was told the other day by a friend that the GF was a broken class. He swears that they cant hold aggro. I'm not sure if he is just parroting what people are saying or has had some bad experiences. He plays on another server so he hasn't seen me tank with a GF. But anyone that cant hold aggro with a GF must have their specs all screwed up. At the moment all I need to do to keep a boss focused on me is:
With enhanced mark (III) active, mark the target and then Enforced threat. Then hit it with a good dose of damage.
I never lose aggro after that. My problem really becomes getting flanked by mobs because I am pulling too much aggro. I spend most of my time re-positioning and swiping at the boss after that. Eventually the rest of the party kills off adds and then targets the boss ... and even then I don't lose aggro.
I'm not sure where this notion of the broken class is coming from but it does a fine job of doing what it supposed to do. I cluster mobs and pull bosses without issue and unfortunately I sometimes do both at the same time. :P
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torquedsoulMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I don't really need a buff for the GF , just make some changes so the GF can be the only one who can face the Big boss and still live! nothing more.
The reason other classes can get away with it is because the bosses telegraph their attacks with BIG RED LINES on the ground. It really takes away the skill element of tanking when you can just step (or teleport) over the red line and avoid damage. I haven't played the higher level instances yet but I suspect that this "tell" system is used throughout the game.
I haven't played many MMO's so i dont know if this is common but this does certainly make it easier for a fast lightly armored individual to dodge attacks.
I'm a level 60 Guardian Fighter and I have a gear score of around 9.7k. There are soooooooo many thing wrong with this class.
1) I can't hold aggro for anything, and when I do have aggro as soon as I'm hit I lose it! How is that a tank class??
2) I don't do any damage, which is fine since I'm a tank but I can pull aggro so no damage is a problem.
3) In every Epic Dungeon that I have done, they could have easily have don it without me and feels like I'm slowing them down more than anything.
4) A F*ing rouge Tank in my last Epic Dungeon that I just did and they are always on the main boss Tanking him, how the heck does that work?
I've played a tanking class in every MMO game that I have played for the last 10 years and this has to be the most jacked up Tank class that I have ever seen. Clerics and Rouges tank better and are 1000% more useful than any GF. Whenever you go to a epic dungeon and you see a GF, everyone is like mother F*. I am now building a new character, GWF since they can tank better and do much more DPS than GF can. Just sad that this game has such a broken Tanking system. Still love the game and still going to play it, just not as a Tank :mad:
You were probably bad at any game for the last 10 years.
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eggylisk99Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I'm a level 60 Guardian Fighter and I have a gear score of around 9.7k. There are soooooooo many thing wrong with this class.
1) I can't hold aggro for anything, and when I do have aggro as soon as I'm hit I lose it! How is that a tank class??
2) I don't do any damage, which is fine since I'm a tank but I can pull aggro so no damage is a problem.
3) In every Epic Dungeon that I have done, they could have easily have don it without me and feels like I'm slowing them down more than anything.
4) A F*ing rouge Tank in my last Epic Dungeon that I just did and they are always on the main boss Tanking him, how the heck does that work?
I've played a tanking class in every MMO game that I have played for the last 10 years and this has to be the most jacked up Tank class that I have ever seen. Clerics and Rouges tank better and are 1000% more useful than any GF. Whenever you go to a epic dungeon and you see a GF, everyone is like mother F*. I am now building a new character, GWF since they can tank better and do much more DPS than GF can. Just sad that this game has such a broken Tanking system. Still love the game and still going to play it, just not as a Tank :mad:
If you're really going to replace your GF with a GWF, I have a feeling you'll be back on the forums very soon.
I'm a level 60 Guardian Fighter and I have a gear score of around 9.7k. There are soooooooo many thing wrong with this class.
1) I can't hold aggro for anything, and when I do have aggro as soon as I'm hit I lose it! How is that a tank class??
2) I don't do any damage, which is fine since I'm a tank but I can pull aggro so no damage is a problem.
3) In every Epic Dungeon that I have done, they could have easily have don it without me and feels like I'm slowing them down more than anything.
4) A F*ing rouge Tank in my last Epic Dungeon that I just did and they are always on the main boss Tanking him, how the heck does that work?
I've played a tanking class in every MMO game that I have played for the last 10 years and this has to be the most jacked up Tank class that I have ever seen. Clerics and Rouges tank better and are 1000% more useful than any GF. Whenever you go to a epic dungeon and you see a GF, everyone is like mother F*. I am now building a new character, GWF since they can tank better and do much more DPS than GF can. Just sad that this game has such a broken Tanking system. Still love the game and still going to play it, just not as a Tank :mad:
You are definitely doing something wrong. It's not the class. It's either the build, your gear, you, more than one of those things or all of the above.
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torquedsoulMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Am I the only one around here who actually enjoys their GF?
I love tank classes and will play the GF through the content. I am in the process of building a static so I am not worried about getting booted from pugs. I enjoy the melee mechanic over the ranged or stealth classes. I rolled a CW and that is my low stress class. Its no where near as immersive as tanking. IMO we get the most of the updated (non-tab select) combat style with melee classes. It is bit ironic that ranged and stealth classes end up stealing the show.
Who knows ... maybe I just enjoy the challenge of the "weak" class.
I'm a level 60 Guardian Fighter and I have a gear score of around 9.7k. There are soooooooo many thing wrong with this class.
1) I can't hold aggro for anything, and when I do have aggro as soon as I'm hit I lose it! How is that a tank class??
2) I don't do any damage, which is fine since I'm a tank but I can pull aggro so no damage is a problem.
3) In every Epic Dungeon that I have done, they could have easily have don it without me and feels like I'm slowing them down more than anything.
4) A F*ing rouge Tank in my last Epic Dungeon that I just did and they are always on the main boss Tanking him, how the heck does that work?
I've played a tanking class in every MMO game that I have played for the last 10 years and this has to be the most jacked up Tank class that I have ever seen. Clerics and Rouges tank better and are 1000% more useful than any GF. Whenever you go to a epic dungeon and you see a GF, everyone is like mother F*. I am now building a new character, GWF since they can tank better and do much more DPS than GF can. Just sad that this game has such a broken Tanking system. Still love the game and still going to play it, just not as a Tank :mad:
Are u jokin???? I think u are the worste player in the world. Th reason why u suck is u play bad!! And your build sucks.
GF is the most unbalanced class in the game.
If u do the right build GF:
1)u take aggro with high dps. The reason why u cannot take aggro is that u play it bad or u did it tatally def. U can take aggro and survive with 20 mobs around u
2)does more dps then GWF and Wizard. U cannot do damage cause u did it tatally def (again) and, of course, u made your build wrong.
3)In every dungeon u did, prob u feel yourseld useless for the reasons i spoke about. No dps no utility
4)GF has not to tank and stop! GF has to tank doing AoE damage.
GF is the most unbalanced class in the game. I don't care if they want to nerf it. It's important to improve GWF cause it's absolutely insane a GF does more damage then a GWF. And that's is.
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iamdoctordeathMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
An ability that lets you suck up a teammates threat- something that's in many games- would make tanking far easier if put on the cleric. But for now, I think your best bet is to just focus on the boss, let the cleric kite or CW aoe adds, and maybe pick up a huge add or two.
One thing's for sure- they didn't make either the tanking or healing role easy in this game. Heck, my cleric was level 35 before I even managed a firm grasp on HOW to heal to begin with, much less do it effectively.
Did you forget Shadow Knights exist? SK's have always been able to AoE tank. In the early days it was more difficult and without very good heals they didn't survive. But threat wise they were more than capable of aoe tanking mass amounts of mobs. I have a lvl 90 SK that I still hop on and play from time to time and I can literally pull entire zones of LB mobs and tank them all.
Shadowknights in EQ1 did have an AoE taunt, the difference here is without that 20 or 30 second (I forget) deflection discipline they would be toast instantly fighting reds and yellows. There are major diffrences in that game and the easy mode games like WoW and the rest really. The biggest factor was no, the Sk did not actually tank 10 or 20 mobs in a raid environment , he just held threat and picked up stragglers that the CC dropped off of, or kept threat on a mob an enchanter had compliant lurch casted on "teather mob to the chanter" Sure when adds needed to be killed in waves a "team" of knights would intercept, chanters would CC or casters would AoE, with a "team" of clerics, druids, and shaman, all healing them "at the same time"
These new games you can fight an "army" all at once in that game 2 mobs at once "even normal non dungeon mobs" can wipe a group. That's why you had necros, bards, Sk,s and monks to split packs and single pull to the group.
I do agree that the GF needs better threat management, at the same time playing a cleric, I am not sure if I have the tools available to heal him standing there trying to take all that damage at once. At the same time I manage ok doing the same thing with my cleric " I don't kite I tank" and TBH with the build and gear focus I have now I can understand 40% heal reduction on myself, while fighting I can have upwards of 70%+ damage reduction without another cleric.
Just one idea i shared about GF in another post, that worth being there too, for discussion or idea for someone else, or even cryptic.
If we compare to the tabletop mark effect it should gives an attack roll penalty of 2 (on a 20 side-dice) to the marked creature against allies of the one who marked it (roughly 10%) and it's not even a class feature, it's an effect, like stun, blind, combat advantage (it would be like giving the combat advantage class feature to the rogue only, that doesn't make more senses, and doesn't give a good representation of the fighter).
If mark is the class feature of the guardian fighter, if you plan to add another tank you will want them to mark too, since it's a "tank" / defender feature. I mean it would suck to have all the tank classes with the same lack-luster class feature.
The class feature of the fighter should be Combat Challenge, the punishment served to the one who ignore him. Like the paladin, swordmage and warden, they all differ not by the fact they mark but how their powers applies the mark condition and whats the punishment to ignore it. There's no threat in D&D 4e, the tank mechanic act as a discouragement for the his marked target to hit his allies, they either hit the defender or take his retaliation.
The combat challenge feature is the real class feature of a guardian fighter, it's a free additional attack each time a marked target hit one of his ally while he is not included (will not trigger in an AoE he's included in. ) How you could put it in the game?
Guardian Fighter Class feature
Combat Challenge
10 seconds cooldown.
"Trigger: A target affected by your mark does damage to an ally.
(Consider that if you are included in an AoE or you took damage from that attack then the mark should be removed before as usual, not triggering combat challenge)
Activate the combat challenge feature for 5 sec.
Combat Challenge allow you to charge at the target dealing moderate damage and cause an high amount of threat on the target. Target is also immobilize for 1 second."
(I think immobilize would help vs running target, the bane of threatening rush)
Now you fix two issue:
1) A fun and meaningful class feature that really give a good feeling to the class.
2) A threat mechanic to make him a real single-target tank as he's supposed to be in the game.
and even:
3) You set up a way to make the GF an unique tank vs other tank class(es) that you might include in the game if you feel like it.
You then keep Threatening rush and enforced threat as a mark generator and you then add a mark condition from Tide of Iron and for the third swing of cleave and crushing surge. You now have 4 at-wills that can put the mark condition, 2 quickly and 2 not focused primary to mark, but can do it. Enforced threat remains the main mass-mark targeting power, fighter doesn't need more AoE threat, it's the GWF to kill them or the CW to control them or if not, DR deal with them.
You can even add a feat or two to this power. Wherever it seems adequate. Like:
Distracting Shield
Your combat challenge power also reduce the amount of damage done by the target by 2/4/6/8/10 % for the next 6 seconds. (good protector feat for both PvE and PvP)
Shield Push
Your combat challenge as 20/40/60/80/100% chance to knock your target and leave him prone instead of immobilizing him. (Good again for PvE and PvP and give a bit more utility to Pin cushion and trample the fallen that are barely used since the lack of control power of the guardian fighter.)
Potent challenge
Increase the damage done by your combat challenge feature by 5/10/15% and also giving you 1/2/3% of your max hp as temporary Hit points.
Just my 2 cents. Feel free to comment or modifying my idea.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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cihuacoatlMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 1Arc User
Gaurdian Fighters do have such an ability, it's called Knight's Valor, and it redirects 50% of party damage to themselves. Additionally, with a few points in the right places and proper skill combinations, a GF should be further reducing damage to party members by at least an additional 20%, potentially a lot more.
The potential damage mitigation provided by a GF isn't easily apparent or highly visible (such as a big blue circle on the ground), but it can be significant.
If Clerics didn't have damage mitigation abilities, and only healed/dps, you would see the need for a GF rise IMMENSELY!
Great ability too bad it bugs out all the time and the ability gets disabled.
Then you are force to use other abilities. Usually at the boss fight when Knights Valor has the most value
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bzzzdMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
An ability that lets you suck up a teammates threat- something that's in many games- would make tanking far easier if put on the cleric. But for now, I think your best bet is to just focus on the boss, let the cleric kite or CW aoe adds, and maybe pick up a huge add or two.
it's already in the game, it's called knight's valor. only problem is, like half the stuff in this game it's utterly broken. it doesn't apply the damage and for me it even stops working after 3-4 times. you have to relog to unstuck the skill. if you use it every cd that would mean you have to relog every 90-120 seconds.
who wants to bet they screw with balance before even attempting to fix this stuff (which would balance some issues out on itself)?
GF is the most unbalanced class in the game. I don't care if they want to nerf it. It's important to improve GWF cause it's absolutely insane a GF does more damage then a GWF. And that's is.
sounds someone got slapped by a gf in pvp
but yeah, gwf comes right after gf in pve. no need to get an aoe spec if you can and sometimes have to push stuff over a ledge
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bzzzdMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
If Clerics didn't have damage mitigation abilities, and only healed/dps, you would see the need for a GF rise IMMENSELY!
I'm not a big fan of nerfing stuff without fixing it first. let each class have their toys, fix what's broken first. in this case make AS not stackable - why it is in the first place is beyond me...
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cihuacoatlMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 1Arc User
Full 100% deflect/defense/HP tank Guardian Fighter. I have zero damage in my build, so taking damage or mobility encounter powers for PvE is useless for my party.
That means that for PvE:
- Knight's Challenge
- Enforced Threat
- Knight's Valor
Having trouble with Knockbacks? Your first Daily Villian's Menace gives you immunity.
Not enough threat? Enhanced mark gives an extra 33%.
Use Stab (block while attacking) to increase threat and Shield Slam to recover shield meter.
For PvP:
- Lunging Strike
- Griffon's Wrath
- Frontline Surge
Lunging strike isn't be enough to get those blinking/dashing Wizards and Clerics: Threatening Rush at-will.
I have no killing power so it's useless to defend the point closest to my team's spawn. I'm much more effective at attacking or camping on top of the other two points. Camp a point, pull two or three of the opposing team, last as long as you can, spawn/repeat.
This is all nice until you start doing T2s. Then you will notice a few things are completely broken.
- Knight's Challenge
Nearly worthless for most T2s... Rogues/CW tank bosses your job is add management. This ability does nothing to help you.
- Enforced Threat
This ability rocks for small packs of mobs. However if you pay attention you will notice it has a finite number of targets it can hit. You do not get to control which targets and on top of that the range is very small. This will in now way strip those 20 mobs chasing your cleric.
- Knight's Valor
This is one of my favorite abilities... though you cannot count on it at all. It seems to bug out all the time. You know the flashing red around the skill... disabling it. This is always fun when it occurs during a boss fight. Unreliable means worthless in most cases.
If all your doing is T1 then your fine... your going to rock what ever you do. Try a T2 and see how you fair... At this point you will start to notice why you should reroll your GF now instead of waiting.
I am curious what spec are you running?
Most of the people that are complaining about GF are Tactics and Protection, for good reason.
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lwetMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
This is all nice until you start doing T2s. Then you will notice a few things are completely broken.
- Knight's Challenge
Nearly worthless for most T2s... Rogues/CW tank bosses your job is add management. This ability does nothing to help you.
- Enforced Threat
This ability rocks for small packs of mobs. However if you pay attention you will notice it has a finite number of targets it can hit. You do not get to control which targets and on top of that the range is very small. This will in now way strip those 20 mobs chasing your cleric.
- Knight's Valor
This is one of my favorite abilities... though you cannot count on it at all. It seems to bug out all the time. You know the flashing red around the skill... disabling it. This is always fun when it occurs during a boss fight. Unreliable means worthless in most cases.
If all your doing is T1 then your fine... your going to rock what ever you do. Try a T2 and see how you fair... At this point you will start to notice why you should reroll your GF now instead of waiting.
I am curious what spec are you running?
Most of the people that are complaining about GF are Tactics and Protection, for good reason.
Thanks for the tips. I wanted to see how tanky I could get with the tankiest class, so I've specced into Protector.
I've started T2 dungeons and agree that adds are more the cause of wipes than bosses. Still, Knight's Challenge seems to be the best power in the GF kit, I switch it out for almost every boss except final boss Spellplague, MDragon and Karrundax.
Controlling adds is the CWs job, not the GFs. Bosses shouldn't be wailing on rogues or clerics. If I don't have boss aggro, then what am I doing? I'm not doing as much DPS as other classes, or have enough tools to deal with more than 7 mobs. So, I leave the adds to CWs, and use Knight's Challenge or else I'm truly useless to my party.
Knight's Challenge is the only reason to take a GF for dungeons IMO. Nothing else is useful enough in PvE in comparison to the other classes. The only real buff possible to GFs in PvE would be to shorten the cooldown on that skill. No complaints though.
Controlling adds is the CWs job, not the GFs. Bosses shouldn't be wailing on rogues or clerics.
This is a perception issue. The bosses dont *wail on* anyone. Thier auto attacks are pathetic and thier scripted attacks can be avoided by a one legged pirate. Bosses are the least threatening part of any *boss* encounter
Thanks for the tips. I wanted to see how tanky I could get with the tankiest class, so I've specced into Protector.
I've started T2 dungeons and agree that adds are more the cause of wipes than bosses. Still, Knight's Challenge seems to be the best power in the GF kit, I switch it out for almost every boss except final boss Spellplague, MDragon and Karrundax.
Controlling adds is the CWs job, not the GFs. Bosses shouldn't be wailing on rogues or clerics. If I don't have boss aggro, then what am I doing? I'm not doing as much DPS as other classes, or have enough tools to deal with more than 7 mobs. So, I leave the adds to CWs, and use Knight's Challenge or else I'm truly useless to my party.
Knight's Challenge is the only reason to take a GF for dungeons IMO. Nothing else is useful enough in PvE in comparison to the other classes. The only real buff possible to GFs in PvE would be to shorten the cooldown on that skill. No complaints though.
I am very sorry, but have you read the post that says Sticky please that they refuse to sticky? It lists all the bugs with this class and unfortunately protector is the most gimped of them all with many aspects not working. I think a lot of us wanted to go that route, only to find out it sucked and then we had to pay to respec (woot $6 great may I have another please?)
I am very sorry, but have you read the post that says Sticky please that they refuse to sticky? It lists all the bugs with this class and unfortunately protector is the most gimped of them all with many aspects not working. I think a lot of us wanted to go that route, only to find out it sucked and then we had to pay to respec (woot $6 great may I have another please?)
You paid real money to respec? It cost me 160k AD.
Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
Comments
I'm not surprised seeing as the GF wasn't intended to be a char for solo play, but in solo at least the mobs attack me...
I know I can hold aggro for the big boss , and tank everything he can do to me! not a problem
but also the TR , CW even the GWF can do this and still deal more damage than I do (I think I can deal almost the same damage once I hit my 4/4 set but once I do that I'm just another DPS for the team)
I don't really need a buff for the GF , just make some changes so the GF can be the only one who can face the Big boss and still live! nothing more.
and I've tested out a lot of rotations and stuff , the broken thing is the tanking in game not the GF it self, u can't really make every character able to tank almost any boss (like kiting and stuff) this will make the GF unwanted in a group
and other thing , please fix this broken Queue where we enter a T2 dungeon without a DC , in this game ! a DC is a must unlike the GF
That means that for PvE:
- Knight's Challenge
- Enforced Threat
- Knight's Valor
Having trouble with Knockbacks? Your first Daily Villian's Menace gives you immunity.
Not enough threat? Enhanced mark gives an extra 33%.
Use Stab (block while attacking) to increase threat and Shield Slam to recover shield meter.
For PvP:
- Lunging Strike
- Griffon's Wrath
- Frontline Surge
Lunging strike isn't be enough to get those blinking/dashing Wizards and Clerics: Threatening Rush at-will.
I have no killing power so it's useless to defend the point closest to my team's spawn. I'm much more effective at attacking or camping on top of the other two points. Camp a point, pull two or three of the opposing team, last as long as you can, spawn/repeat.
With enhanced mark (III) active, mark the target and then Enforced threat. Then hit it with a good dose of damage.
I never lose aggro after that. My problem really becomes getting flanked by mobs because I am pulling too much aggro. I spend most of my time re-positioning and swiping at the boss after that. Eventually the rest of the party kills off adds and then targets the boss ... and even then I don't lose aggro.
I'm not sure where this notion of the broken class is coming from but it does a fine job of doing what it supposed to do. I cluster mobs and pull bosses without issue and unfortunately I sometimes do both at the same time. :P
The reason other classes can get away with it is because the bosses telegraph their attacks with BIG RED LINES on the ground. It really takes away the skill element of tanking when you can just step (or teleport) over the red line and avoid damage. I haven't played the higher level instances yet but I suspect that this "tell" system is used throughout the game.
I haven't played many MMO's so i dont know if this is common but this does certainly make it easier for a fast lightly armored individual to dodge attacks.
You were probably bad at any game for the last 10 years.
If you're really going to replace your GF with a GWF, I have a feeling you'll be back on the forums very soon.
You are definitely doing something wrong. It's not the class. It's either the build, your gear, you, more than one of those things or all of the above.
I love tank classes and will play the GF through the content. I am in the process of building a static so I am not worried about getting booted from pugs. I enjoy the melee mechanic over the ranged or stealth classes. I rolled a CW and that is my low stress class. Its no where near as immersive as tanking. IMO we get the most of the updated (non-tab select) combat style with melee classes. It is bit ironic that ranged and stealth classes end up stealing the show.
Who knows ... maybe I just enjoy the challenge of the "weak" class.
Are u jokin???? I think u are the worste player in the world. Th reason why u suck is u play bad!! And your build sucks.
GF is the most unbalanced class in the game.
If u do the right build GF:
1)u take aggro with high dps. The reason why u cannot take aggro is that u play it bad or u did it tatally def. U can take aggro and survive with 20 mobs around u
2)does more dps then GWF and Wizard. U cannot do damage cause u did it tatally def (again) and, of course, u made your build wrong.
3)In every dungeon u did, prob u feel yourseld useless for the reasons i spoke about. No dps no utility
4)GF has not to tank and stop! GF has to tank doing AoE damage.
GF is the most unbalanced class in the game. I don't care if they want to nerf it. It's important to improve GWF cause it's absolutely insane a GF does more damage then a GWF. And that's is.
One thing's for sure- they didn't make either the tanking or healing role easy in this game. Heck, my cleric was level 35 before I even managed a firm grasp on HOW to heal to begin with, much less do it effectively.
I wouldn't say so, I love my Guardian.
Shadowknights in EQ1 did have an AoE taunt, the difference here is without that 20 or 30 second (I forget) deflection discipline they would be toast instantly fighting reds and yellows. There are major diffrences in that game and the easy mode games like WoW and the rest really. The biggest factor was no, the Sk did not actually tank 10 or 20 mobs in a raid environment , he just held threat and picked up stragglers that the CC dropped off of, or kept threat on a mob an enchanter had compliant lurch casted on "teather mob to the chanter" Sure when adds needed to be killed in waves a "team" of knights would intercept, chanters would CC or casters would AoE, with a "team" of clerics, druids, and shaman, all healing them "at the same time"
These new games you can fight an "army" all at once in that game 2 mobs at once "even normal non dungeon mobs" can wipe a group. That's why you had necros, bards, Sk,s and monks to split packs and single pull to the group.
I do agree that the GF needs better threat management, at the same time playing a cleric, I am not sure if I have the tools available to heal him standing there trying to take all that damage at once. At the same time I manage ok doing the same thing with my cleric " I don't kite I tank" and TBH with the build and gear focus I have now I can understand 40% heal reduction on myself, while fighting I can have upwards of 70%+ damage reduction without another cleric.
lol GF is amazing. High dps, great tank. I believe u enjoy it
If we compare to the tabletop mark effect it should gives an attack roll penalty of 2 (on a 20 side-dice) to the marked creature against allies of the one who marked it (roughly 10%) and it's not even a class feature, it's an effect, like stun, blind, combat advantage (it would be like giving the combat advantage class feature to the rogue only, that doesn't make more senses, and doesn't give a good representation of the fighter).
If mark is the class feature of the guardian fighter, if you plan to add another tank you will want them to mark too, since it's a "tank" / defender feature. I mean it would suck to have all the tank classes with the same lack-luster class feature.
The class feature of the fighter should be Combat Challenge, the punishment served to the one who ignore him. Like the paladin, swordmage and warden, they all differ not by the fact they mark but how their powers applies the mark condition and whats the punishment to ignore it. There's no threat in D&D 4e, the tank mechanic act as a discouragement for the his marked target to hit his allies, they either hit the defender or take his retaliation.
The combat challenge feature is the real class feature of a guardian fighter, it's a free additional attack each time a marked target hit one of his ally while he is not included (will not trigger in an AoE he's included in. ) How you could put it in the game?
Guardian Fighter Class feature
Combat Challenge
10 seconds cooldown.
"Trigger: A target affected by your mark does damage to an ally.
(Consider that if you are included in an AoE or you took damage from that attack then the mark should be removed before as usual, not triggering combat challenge)
Activate the combat challenge feature for 5 sec.
Combat Challenge allow you to charge at the target dealing moderate damage and cause an high amount of threat on the target. Target is also immobilize for 1 second."
(I think immobilize would help vs running target, the bane of threatening rush)
Now you fix two issue:
1) A fun and meaningful class feature that really give a good feeling to the class.
2) A threat mechanic to make him a real single-target tank as he's supposed to be in the game.
and even:
3) You set up a way to make the GF an unique tank vs other tank class(es) that you might include in the game if you feel like it.
You then keep Threatening rush and enforced threat as a mark generator and you then add a mark condition from Tide of Iron and for the third swing of cleave and crushing surge. You now have 4 at-wills that can put the mark condition, 2 quickly and 2 not focused primary to mark, but can do it. Enforced threat remains the main mass-mark targeting power, fighter doesn't need more AoE threat, it's the GWF to kill them or the CW to control them or if not, DR deal with them.
You can even add a feat or two to this power. Wherever it seems adequate. Like:
Distracting Shield
Your combat challenge power also reduce the amount of damage done by the target by 2/4/6/8/10 % for the next 6 seconds. (good protector feat for both PvE and PvP)
Shield Push
Your combat challenge as 20/40/60/80/100% chance to knock your target and leave him prone instead of immobilizing him. (Good again for PvE and PvP and give a bit more utility to Pin cushion and trample the fallen that are barely used since the lack of control power of the guardian fighter.)
Potent challenge
Increase the damage done by your combat challenge feature by 5/10/15% and also giving you 1/2/3% of your max hp as temporary Hit points.
Just my 2 cents. Feel free to comment or modifying my idea.
Great ability too bad it bugs out all the time and the ability gets disabled.
Then you are force to use other abilities. Usually at the boss fight when Knights Valor has the most value
it's already in the game, it's called knight's valor. only problem is, like half the stuff in this game it's utterly broken. it doesn't apply the damage and for me it even stops working after 3-4 times. you have to relog to unstuck the skill. if you use it every cd that would mean you have to relog every 90-120 seconds.
who wants to bet they screw with balance before even attempting to fix this stuff (which would balance some issues out on itself)?
EDIT: some beat me to it
sounds someone got slapped by a gf in pvp
but yeah, gwf comes right after gf in pve. no need to get an aoe spec if you can and sometimes have to push stuff over a ledge
I'm not a big fan of nerfing stuff without fixing it first. let each class have their toys, fix what's broken first. in this case make AS not stackable - why it is in the first place is beyond me...
This is all nice until you start doing T2s. Then you will notice a few things are completely broken.
- Knight's Challenge
Nearly worthless for most T2s... Rogues/CW tank bosses your job is add management. This ability does nothing to help you.
- Enforced Threat
This ability rocks for small packs of mobs. However if you pay attention you will notice it has a finite number of targets it can hit. You do not get to control which targets and on top of that the range is very small. This will in now way strip those 20 mobs chasing your cleric.
- Knight's Valor
This is one of my favorite abilities... though you cannot count on it at all. It seems to bug out all the time. You know the flashing red around the skill... disabling it. This is always fun when it occurs during a boss fight. Unreliable means worthless in most cases.
If all your doing is T1 then your fine... your going to rock what ever you do. Try a T2 and see how you fair... At this point you will start to notice why you should reroll your GF now instead of waiting.
I am curious what spec are you running?
Most of the people that are complaining about GF are Tactics and Protection, for good reason.
Thanks for the tips. I wanted to see how tanky I could get with the tankiest class, so I've specced into Protector.
I've started T2 dungeons and agree that adds are more the cause of wipes than bosses. Still, Knight's Challenge seems to be the best power in the GF kit, I switch it out for almost every boss except final boss Spellplague, MDragon and Karrundax.
Controlling adds is the CWs job, not the GFs. Bosses shouldn't be wailing on rogues or clerics. If I don't have boss aggro, then what am I doing? I'm not doing as much DPS as other classes, or have enough tools to deal with more than 7 mobs. So, I leave the adds to CWs, and use Knight's Challenge or else I'm truly useless to my party.
Knight's Challenge is the only reason to take a GF for dungeons IMO. Nothing else is useful enough in PvE in comparison to the other classes. The only real buff possible to GFs in PvE would be to shorten the cooldown on that skill. No complaints though.
This is a perception issue. The bosses dont *wail on* anyone. Thier auto attacks are pathetic and thier scripted attacks can be avoided by a one legged pirate. Bosses are the least threatening part of any *boss* encounter
I am very sorry, but have you read the post that says Sticky please that they refuse to sticky? It lists all the bugs with this class and unfortunately protector is the most gimped of them all with many aspects not working. I think a lot of us wanted to go that route, only to find out it sucked and then we had to pay to respec (woot $6 great may I have another please?)
You paid real money to respec? It cost me 160k AD.