.... Im a Roleplayer by nature so I actually missed this initially. Now that Im thinking about it; where the hell is my alignment bar? Wheres the quests I should be getting based on how much of a ******bag I am? Then again, I havnt seen a company do a GOOD alignment system yet. Maybe its too hard to code? ... Or Devs are just lazy.
I had thought the Deity I was praying to had specific buffs at the prayer alters, but I havnt compared with other players yet.
Really, reading this thread has just been depressing and some proof I need to not post when Im drunk and angry. :P
SWTOR. Bioware is an amazing company that got this right. Then EA came along and turned it into a money-grubbing cash hole.
I'm gonna have to play Devil's Advocate in this thread...this is a Cryptic game. You guys might have heard of another game, the one where the "Foundry" was originally created: City of Heroes & the Foundry's ancestor, the "Mission Architect". CoH is a very, VERY old game, as is the Architect feature. Now, in CoH, many maps were made. Some good with lots of story, some bad. Through all the years, those good stories still thrived, regardless of what other drivel was put up. This included, in LARGE quantities, Fire Farm maps.
What are Fire Farm maps, you ask? It's a map where 90% of all damage done was Fire type dmg from mobs, and people built Fire-based Tank characters solely around this fact, so they could tank huge rooms full of enemies and, pardon the pun, "burn" them down for massive exp. It became, for many players honestly, the primary draw of the Architect. In fact, it's what kept alot of people who would have otherwise quit, from quitting. Granted though, CoH was MUCH more grindy than NWO is.
Cryptic knew this. Cryptic tried to fight it. Cryptic lost. Or rather, Cryptic when it was still part of the CoH team, there was a Team split headed by Jack who went on to use the ideas & assets to make Champions Online, but that's another thread. Bottom line is, though, Cryptic & PWE can fight this all they want, there's just way too many both lazy & creative folk out there to ever stop it. Moreso since CoH kept it going despite being pay 2 play, NWO is f2p, what's gonna stop these guys from making dummy accounts on proxy IPs to do the maps? Build a better mousetrap and they'll just build a better mouse. The same thing will happen again, they're fighting it now, but they'll give up eventually when they see how futile it is and how stubborn these players can be.
I'm not necessarily defending it. Nor am I against it, though. I simply don't give 2 ****s how someone ELSE plays the game, because not one person doing these maps has affected my gameplay in any manner whatsoever. I'm too busy enjoying myself to care if someone wants to cheat themselves out of the game's storyline or if they skip all the content and then complain there's nothing to do because they dug that grave for themselves.
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zaphtasticMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, SilverstarsPosts: 0Arc User
I'm gonna have to play Devil's Advocate in this thread...this is a Cryptic game. You guys might have heard of another game, the one where the "Foundry" was originally created: City of Heroes & the Foundry's ancestor, the "Mission Architect". CoH is a very, VERY old game, as is the Architect feature. Now, in CoH, many maps were made. Some good with lots of story, some bad. Through all the years, those good stories still thrived, regardless of what other drivel was put up. This included, in LARGE quantities, Fire Farm maps.
What are Fire Farm maps, you ask? It's a map where 90% of all damage done was Fire type dmg from mobs, and people built Fire-based Tank characters solely around this fact, so they could tank huge rooms full of enemies and, pardon the pun, "burn" them down for massive exp. It became, for many players honestly, the primary draw of the Architect. In fact, it's what kept alot of people who would have otherwise quit, from quitting. Granted though, CoH was MUCH more grindy than NWO is.
Cryptic knew this. Cryptic tried to fight it. Cryptic lost. Or rather, Cryptic when it was still part of the CoH team, there was a Team split headed by Jack who went on to use the ideas & assets to make Champions Online, but that's another thread. Bottom line is, though, Cryptic & PWE can fight this all they want, there's just way too many both lazy & creative folk out there to ever stop it. Moreso since CoH kept it going despite being pay 2 play, NWO is f2p, what's gonna stop these guys from making dummy accounts on proxy IPs to do the maps? Build a better mousetrap and they'll just build a better mouse. The same thing will happen again, they're fighting it now, but they'll give up eventually when they see how futile it is and how stubborn these players can be.
I'm not necessarily defending it. Nor am I against it, though. I simply don't give 2 ****s how someone ELSE plays the game, because not one person doing these maps has affected my gameplay in any manner whatsoever. I'm too busy enjoying myself to care if someone wants to cheat themselves out of the game's storyline or if they skip all the content and then complain there's nothing to do because they dug that grave for themselves.
I'm gonna have to play Devil's Advocate in this thread...this is a Cryptic game. You guys might have heard of another game, the one where the "Foundry" was originally created: City of Heroes & the Foundry's ancestor, the "Mission Architect". CoH is a very, VERY old game, as is the Architect feature. Now, in CoH, many maps were made. Some good with lots of story, some bad. Through all the years, those good stories still thrived, regardless of what other drivel was put up. This included, in LARGE quantities, Fire Farm maps.
What are Fire Farm maps, you ask? It's a map where 90% of all damage done was Fire type dmg from mobs, and people built Fire-based Tank characters solely around this fact, so they could tank huge rooms full of enemies and, pardon the pun, "burn" them down for massive exp. It became, for many players honestly, the primary draw of the Architect. In fact, it's what kept alot of people who would have otherwise quit, from quitting. Granted though, CoH was MUCH more grindy than NWO is.
Cryptic knew this. Cryptic tried to fight it. Cryptic lost. Or rather, Cryptic when it was still part of the CoH team, there was a Team split headed by Jack who went on to use the ideas & assets to make Champions Online, but that's another thread. Bottom line is, though, Cryptic & PWE can fight this all they want, there's just way too many both lazy & creative folk out there to ever stop it. Moreso since CoH kept it going despite being pay 2 play, NWO is f2p, what's gonna stop these guys from making dummy accounts on proxy IPs to do the maps? Build a better mousetrap and they'll just build a better mouse. The same thing will happen again, they're fighting it now, but they'll give up eventually when they see how futile it is and how stubborn these players can be.
I'm not necessarily defending it. Nor am I against it, though. I simply don't give 2 ****s how someone ELSE plays the game, because not one person doing these maps has affected my gameplay in any manner whatsoever. I'm too busy enjoying myself to care if someone wants to cheat themselves out of the game's storyline or if they skip all the content and then complain there's nothing to do because they dug that grave for themselves.
Just too point out, your information is incorrect.
Cryptic sold their share of CoX too NCSoft around the Issue 11 launch, the Mission Architect was added 2 years later in I14.
Trying to 'win' against farmers means everybody loses. Deja vu...
Been saying it in every post I put up..
Frankly what's happened is that the people playing those missions are FAR less my enemy than the developers who just gutted the most enjoyable part of the game to prove they are in control. Knee jerk FUBAR that could very well kill their game.
Do you crave a good old fashioned dungeon crawl? One where the dungeon tells it's own story? The Dungeon Delves campaign is just for you! Start with my first release: NW-DQF4T7QYH Any cave can lead to adventure!
I can see this being fixed but it really doesn't matter in anyway what so ever since the game is about campaigns and stories. We all did it in Neverwinter Nights but it did do anything to affect other players gameplay and lvl 60 means nothing in the game what so ever! Completely useless to PL to 60 in this game for any reason because it really isn't a MMO and not meant to be played as a MMO.
There is a big difference between an exploit map and a farming map. If a player goes through a map without taking a single point of damage repeatedly, its probably an exploit map. If a player kills 50 ogres, but winds up near death a few times cause of it, that is just a farming map. Skirmishing is little different.
Shooting gallery is an exploit. A dungeon crawling with ogres, not so much. Players that only XP farm are also losing out on item drops you would get by killing boss mobs in normal play. It isn't like you can just get all blue and fully optimum gear by playing foundry XP grinding.
I'm gonna have to play Devil's Advocate in this thread...this is a Cryptic game. You guys might have heard of another game, the one where the "Foundry" was originally created: City of Heroes & the Foundry's ancestor, the "Mission Architect". CoH is a very, VERY old game, as is the Architect feature. Now, in CoH, many maps were made. Some good with lots of story, some bad. Through all the years, those good stories still thrived, regardless of what other drivel was put up. This included, in LARGE quantities, Fire Farm maps.
What are Fire Farm maps, you ask? It's a map where 90% of all damage done was Fire type dmg from mobs, and people built Fire-based Tank characters solely around this fact, so they could tank huge rooms full of enemies and, pardon the pun, "burn" them down for massive exp. It became, for many players honestly, the primary draw of the Architect. In fact, it's what kept alot of people who would have otherwise quit, from quitting. Granted though, CoH was MUCH more grindy than NWO is.
Cryptic knew this. Cryptic tried to fight it. Cryptic lost. Or rather, Cryptic when it was still part of the CoH team, there was a Team split headed by Jack who went on to use the ideas & assets to make Champions Online, but that's another thread. Bottom line is, though, Cryptic & PWE can fight this all they want, there's just way too many both lazy & creative folk out there to ever stop it. Moreso since CoH kept it going despite being pay 2 play, NWO is f2p, what's gonna stop these guys from making dummy accounts on proxy IPs to do the maps? Build a better mousetrap and they'll just build a better mouse. The same thing will happen again, they're fighting it now, but they'll give up eventually when they see how futile it is and how stubborn these players can be.
I'm not necessarily defending it. Nor am I against it, though. I simply don't give 2 ****s how someone ELSE plays the game, because not one person doing these maps has affected my gameplay in any manner whatsoever. I'm too busy enjoying myself to care if someone wants to cheat themselves out of the game's storyline or if they skip all the content and then complain there's nothing to do because they dug that grave for themselves.
Wait. Youre saying people are going to quit and there will be some kind of mass exodus if they cant have their XP handed to them on a silver platter without having to actually play the game?
There are tons of people during peak times who actually want to play the game caught in a queue waiting, while others are logged in taking up space exploiting for XP. If the company plays their cards right, sounds like lanes on the highway are about to begin opening right up.
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isakongmingMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 2Arc User
That's the band aid.
The cure is to patch the exploited features which is in the works.
Their bandaid created a slash to the wrist. If they had just nerfed the **** XP it would have been fine but they also cut all loot drops. From my build, everyone running Foundry quests, every single person reported that no matter which foundry quest they did, XP and loot were cut and for melee's its no longer worth doing a foundry quest because you don't get enough to cover the cost of potions. This needs to be FIXED quickly because they are already talking about quitting the game once they have gotten tired of the LOW AMOUNT OF END GAME CONTENT, and making the foundry a money sink will force people to FARM outside the foundry just to have healing potions...and this game isn't good enough to keep people if they have to farm all day.
Why the hell didn't they just implement the HotN beta test limitation of only being able to do a foundry quest ONCE a day until they had a real fix?!?
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midoritlMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 16Arc User
As much as I second that solution, problem is that it'd be pretty easy to get around it with free accounts. Better to actually prevent the exploits in the first place.
You people crying about" farm maps" are annoying as hell. there's no difference between these maps, and quest in the game already to kill x amount of mobs. not everyone who plays this game is going to play it to read the lore or is into lore like the people crying about their maps not getting played. this is not to be confused with the exploiting maps where they are using knock backs etc. if I want to kill 50 ogres with no bull**** rp inbetween them then so be it. who are you to tell me I should play your map because it has a story I could care less about.
u sir, have no understanding at all on how an mmo is suppose to be played. But i'm betting my *** off that once u reach level 60 in 5 hours u'll be running heroic dungeons etc and boasting around in /z that ur the man that got lvl 60 in only 5 hours.
If u want to stand on a map and kill 50 ogres that dont even attack you because they are restricted by an exploit then u should start playing online boardgames because in the words of Bruce Lee... "Boards don't hit back".
Nobody is telling you to play lore maps, nobody is forcing you to play foundry quests. But everyone is saying that the kind of leveling u are after is out of the question.
And BTW.... u DO have an option to mindlessly kill mobs without lore... its called grinding on world mobs NOT on exploit maps. But oh wait... u dont get xp fast enough when u do it like its intended to be right?
Their bandaid created a slash to the wrist. If they had just nerfed the **** XP it would have been fine but they also cut all loot drops. From my build, everyone running Foundry quests, every single person reported that no matter which foundry quest they did, XP and loot were cut and for melee's its no longer worth doing a foundry quest because you don't get enough to cover the cost of potions. This needs to be FIXED quickly because they are already talking about quitting the game once they have gotten tired of the LOW AMOUNT OF END GAME CONTENT, and making the foundry a money sink will force people to FARM outside the foundry just to have healing potions...and this game isn't good enough to keep people if they have to farm all day.
Why the hell didn't they just implement the HotN beta test limitation of only being able to do a foundry quest ONCE a day until they had a real fix?!?
Right now the devs are elbow deep in code trying to fix the various game breaking bugs like uncompletable missions, client crashes and to improve server stability. A proper fix would take too many of their precious man hours now and what you suggest would completely eliminate one of the advertised features of the foundry (not that there's apparently not much point in levelling a character through pure foundry missions with the current patch).
That's not to mention that if it's anything like STO's foundry stuff like pathing data isn't done until it's published meaning that to test the mission properly you need to publish it, if I could only live test my mission once a day then it'd put a halt on my mission creation.
Wait. Youre saying people are going to quit and there will be some kind of mass exodus if they cant have their XP handed to them on a silver platter without having to actually play the game?
There are tons of people during peak times who actually want to play the game caught in a queue waiting, while others are logged in taking up space exploiting for XP. If the company plays their cards right, sounds like lanes on the highway are about to begin opening right up.
Not what I intended to bring across at all, no. I'm saying no matter what Cryptic or PWE does, this will continue. People will find a way around any roadblock they put up. The only people being hurt are those who DO enjoy the legitimate content created in the Foundry. This guy pretty much sums up the same thing but more eloquently worded: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?203581&p=2767322&viewfull=1#post2767322
PS: You're not seeing the whole picture either. Not only were there those "exploit" ones that WERE exploits, putting mobs in holes they can't fight back in, but there were plenty of Melee-friendly, Skill-testing, non-trapped Ranged Kiting missions out there as well. Do you want to kill off excellent Story ones that are combat-heavy like Cragsteep Crypt, too, because those massive fights give good exp? Or rather, gave good exp, and were enjoyable.
Comments
SWTOR. Bioware is an amazing company that got this right. Then EA came along and turned it into a money-grubbing cash hole.
@kmhknight
My campaign: The Madness Plague.
My quest: Blacklake Gold
My guild: "The Older" Age 30+, Casual
What are Fire Farm maps, you ask? It's a map where 90% of all damage done was Fire type dmg from mobs, and people built Fire-based Tank characters solely around this fact, so they could tank huge rooms full of enemies and, pardon the pun, "burn" them down for massive exp. It became, for many players honestly, the primary draw of the Architect. In fact, it's what kept alot of people who would have otherwise quit, from quitting. Granted though, CoH was MUCH more grindy than NWO is.
Cryptic knew this. Cryptic tried to fight it. Cryptic lost. Or rather, Cryptic when it was still part of the CoH team, there was a Team split headed by Jack who went on to use the ideas & assets to make Champions Online, but that's another thread. Bottom line is, though, Cryptic & PWE can fight this all they want, there's just way too many both lazy & creative folk out there to ever stop it. Moreso since CoH kept it going despite being pay 2 play, NWO is f2p, what's gonna stop these guys from making dummy accounts on proxy IPs to do the maps? Build a better mousetrap and they'll just build a better mouse. The same thing will happen again, they're fighting it now, but they'll give up eventually when they see how futile it is and how stubborn these players can be.
I'm not necessarily defending it. Nor am I against it, though. I simply don't give 2 ****s how someone ELSE plays the game, because not one person doing these maps has affected my gameplay in any manner whatsoever. I'm too busy enjoying myself to care if someone wants to cheat themselves out of the game's storyline or if they skip all the content and then complain there's nothing to do because they dug that grave for themselves.
Trying to 'win' against farmers means everybody loses. Deja vu...
Getting good content to players in the Foundry - challenges and solutions
Handle: @zaphtastic
Just too point out, your information is incorrect.
Cryptic sold their share of CoX too NCSoft around the Issue 11 launch, the Mission Architect was added 2 years later in I14.
Been saying it in every post I put up..
Frankly what's happened is that the people playing those missions are FAR less my enemy than the developers who just gutted the most enjoyable part of the game to prove they are in control. Knee jerk FUBAR that could very well kill their game.
Shooting gallery is an exploit. A dungeon crawling with ogres, not so much. Players that only XP farm are also losing out on item drops you would get by killing boss mobs in normal play. It isn't like you can just get all blue and fully optimum gear by playing foundry XP grinding.
Wait. Youre saying people are going to quit and there will be some kind of mass exodus if they cant have their XP handed to them on a silver platter without having to actually play the game?
There are tons of people during peak times who actually want to play the game caught in a queue waiting, while others are logged in taking up space exploiting for XP. If the company plays their cards right, sounds like lanes on the highway are about to begin opening right up.
Their bandaid created a slash to the wrist. If they had just nerfed the **** XP it would have been fine but they also cut all loot drops. From my build, everyone running Foundry quests, every single person reported that no matter which foundry quest they did, XP and loot were cut and for melee's its no longer worth doing a foundry quest because you don't get enough to cover the cost of potions. This needs to be FIXED quickly because they are already talking about quitting the game once they have gotten tired of the LOW AMOUNT OF END GAME CONTENT, and making the foundry a money sink will force people to FARM outside the foundry just to have healing potions...and this game isn't good enough to keep people if they have to farm all day.
Why the hell didn't they just implement the HotN beta test limitation of only being able to do a foundry quest ONCE a day until they had a real fix?!?
As much as I second that solution, problem is that it'd be pretty easy to get around it with free accounts. Better to actually prevent the exploits in the first place.
u sir, have no understanding at all on how an mmo is suppose to be played. But i'm betting my *** off that once u reach level 60 in 5 hours u'll be running heroic dungeons etc and boasting around in /z that ur the man that got lvl 60 in only 5 hours.
If u want to stand on a map and kill 50 ogres that dont even attack you because they are restricted by an exploit then u should start playing online boardgames because in the words of Bruce Lee... "Boards don't hit back".
Nobody is telling you to play lore maps, nobody is forcing you to play foundry quests. But everyone is saying that the kind of leveling u are after is out of the question.
And BTW.... u DO have an option to mindlessly kill mobs without lore... its called grinding on world mobs NOT on exploit maps. But oh wait... u dont get xp fast enough when u do it like its intended to be right?
Right now the devs are elbow deep in code trying to fix the various game breaking bugs like uncompletable missions, client crashes and to improve server stability. A proper fix would take too many of their precious man hours now and what you suggest would completely eliminate one of the advertised features of the foundry (not that there's apparently not much point in levelling a character through pure foundry missions with the current patch).
That's not to mention that if it's anything like STO's foundry stuff like pathing data isn't done until it's published meaning that to test the mission properly you need to publish it, if I could only live test my mission once a day then it'd put a halt on my mission creation.
Not what I intended to bring across at all, no. I'm saying no matter what Cryptic or PWE does, this will continue. People will find a way around any roadblock they put up. The only people being hurt are those who DO enjoy the legitimate content created in the Foundry. This guy pretty much sums up the same thing but more eloquently worded: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?203581&p=2767322&viewfull=1#post2767322
PS: You're not seeing the whole picture either. Not only were there those "exploit" ones that WERE exploits, putting mobs in holes they can't fight back in, but there were plenty of Melee-friendly, Skill-testing, non-trapped Ranged Kiting missions out there as well. Do you want to kill off excellent Story ones that are combat-heavy like Cragsteep Crypt, too, because those massive fights give good exp? Or rather, gave good exp, and were enjoyable.