test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Exploit Maps. What's the deal? Who gets punished?
thecain
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
I've heard of people getting suspended for creating certain maps designed to get you to level fast and easy, rushing you to end content. Some are fun, offering swarms of ogres that can quickly mow you down, leaving you screaming (hard maps), ones that stand there, waiting to fight (Training Maps), and then... there are exploit maps.
The biggest offender, to me, is a strange map I found where there were <exploit details removed>. I played this map twice: First to see if it actually exist, and how long it went, and the second to try and break the map. With my <exploit details removed>, no matter how hard I tried.
My fear: Am I at risk at all for playing the map itself? I've heard of people getting suspended for MAKING the maps. But are people PLAYING the maps at a loss? I'm hearing conflicting reports: Some are saying that all EXP maps are legal, the game entirely designed for players to play their way, and have fun with the foundry. In practice I'm seeing some maps disappear. Worse yet, I can't get any clear info on what the people PLAYING the maps will have happen to them, be it people testing the map (myself), or people just using it to grind faster than what maps with the <exploit details removed> will get you.
I'd really appreciate feedback from a dev, or a community moderator that has heads up from the devs/admins of the game. I've already gone back to the Training Maps (<exploit details removed>), without even knowing if THOSE maps are unfavored by the devs. This entire thing is confusing me heavily, some clarity on the issue would be much appreciated. Also, I'd appreciate details on how to report such maps, if indeed they're against the terms of use of the Foundry.
The biggest offender, to me, is a strange map I found where there were <exploit details removed>. I played this map twice: First to see if it actually exist, and how long it went, and the second to try and break the map. With my <exploit details removed>, no matter how hard I tried.
My fear: Am I at risk at all for playing the map itself? I've heard of people getting suspended for MAKING the maps. But are people PLAYING the maps at a loss? I'm hearing conflicting reports: Some are saying that all EXP maps are legal, the game entirely designed for players to play their way, and have fun with the foundry. In practice I'm seeing some maps disappear. Worse yet, I can't get any clear info on what the people PLAYING the maps will have happen to them, be it people testing the map (myself), or people just using it to grind faster than what maps with the <exploit details removed> will get you.
I'd really appreciate feedback from a dev, or a community moderator that has heads up from the devs/admins of the game. I've already gone back to the Training Maps (<exploit details removed>), without even knowing if THOSE maps are unfavored by the devs. This entire thing is confusing me heavily, some clarity on the issue would be much appreciated. Also, I'd appreciate details on how to report such maps, if indeed they're against the terms of use of the Foundry.
Post edited by thecain on
0
Comments
(As a new mod creator, I'm finding a lot of things that don't make sense to me. I'm sure a lot of it is just inexperience, but other things just... not intuitive at all or what one would expect.)
Author of the LGBT quest: Alternative Entertainment (NW-DHQPDNBZM)
. . . . . Please report exploits either through the Support system or through in-Game GM Ticketing (preferred). We cannot allow accusations against any users or specific missions on the forums, whether it is true or not. To report a map that you are unable to complete, open the help menu (? mark on menu bar or H by default) and press to contact a GM. Choose behavior and input the author's @handle in the specified field. Then in the subject line, enter in the Mission ID and explain what the issue is. You can find the mission ID below the mission's name in the list. They are a string of letters and numbers, that start with a prefix, like "NW-" - another way is once you've completed a mission, you'll be able to report it for ToS Violation.
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
The issue is pretty simple and logical.
When you can use a system feature like foundry to acclerate levels faster then what the main content of the game allows you to level, then there is clearly an issue.
Now as we have discussed about this earlier today, common sense generally prevails and if you are getting a level every half a minute you should know something is wrong, no matter how you try and read between the lines or try and justify it with this is how it was designed.
A GM already replied to us earlier today saying they would not revel how they would punish people for partaking in these instances as that is something we are not privy to and rightfully so.
My advice is, for now until they fix it so they are happy where they want your leveling speed to be with in foundry is to stick with ethier the main story line quests or play foundries that are designed with story line quests in mind.
At the end of the day, people need to stop shooting thier mouths off claiming there is nothing saying they cant do it and go read the EULA where it clearly states, you can't do it.
The other reason is because you will have users who will only use the foundry....level up that way and not know how to play the rest of the game.
Its a neat concept but you will always have people exploiting things.
Strangely enough I made a post and said this is exactly what would happen....guess someone should have paid attention..>_>
This sort of thing happened in city of heroes when they had user created missions too.
What the real tragic part was...in city of heroes once everyone leveled super fast from those missions they just stopped playing.
And I know that's what will happen here.
No matter how tempted you are.....you need to make the foundry not level characters or give experience. They should only give out some form of meta currency type. That can be spent for uncommon things in game. If you have them only for something everyone can get easily it will be an ignored system. But if the player could get a celestial key(a key not multiples and once per day) or trade to get the special bar currency gotten from the gift boxes or maybe other ways to get green crafting assets or the dyes for clothes. Then you would have people playing this stuff like crazy. and you would have more control. Because if they did get the green assets this would stop players from trying to destroy/control the market system in game. It would also make it possible to have a differing route to get things. And it would quash a lot of the grumbling about being forced to pay for zen.
There is a saying I realized was perfect for all games well actually a thinking of it in reverse flow. And That's all roads lead to rome....in this case this means no matter what you have you should always have multiple ways to achieve the same thing. This then makes whomever figures out some way to do it....feel special when its not the normal way. Thus having a way to get some items in a totally different fashion would be perfect.
And again you don't want to provide everything, you simply want to add a differing way to get items that people want but cant normally.
Power without Perception is Spiritually useless and therefore of no true value.
=^_^=
Everybody knew it would happen. The main bit is that it idn't allowed and is being removed.
A lot of good can and does come from the Foundry. But you have to take the good with the bad.
So as long as Cryptic is removing this content and addressing the exploits then there's no true problem. The exploits happened, the solutions are in the works, and the Foundry is still the best thing about NWO.
Cryptic didn't make UGC without expecting to have to fight exploits.
<exploit details removed>
Its some sort of real challange.
sure its not the real gameplay,
however its fun and a challange.
No exploit in my eyes if you really need to play and fight and use potions etc.
So...delete <exploit details removed> maps.
<exploit details removed>
<exploit details removed>
I'm not a fan of the leveling maps (I've tried one, glitches like mad). I'm an old-school roleplayer and prefer to level properly, in a story. However, I also don't get on a high horse in an MMO and refuse to let people do it or call it "exploiting". To each their own.
EDIT: Due to exploit details removed, it looks like I am saying that the quests which allow leveling via said exploit are okay. This is not the case. If there is no risk, then it is an exploit.
As far as those saying "don't allow XP for foundry quests", there is then no reason to do Foundry quests. There is no reward whatsoever other than 1000AD once per day. And trust me, I can queue up for skirmishes or dungeon delves and earn far more in that period of time. The Foundry content then becomes pointless.
And don't hand me that "oh, I just want to experience people's stories". I play PnP DM adventures for fun, too, but it's also for being able to get something for my character or gain a level. If I was informed at the beginning of a PnP session that there was no XP or item rewards, I'd go find an adventure that did get me rewards.
The best solution here is to put an 1h timer on all foundry missions. Or any timer really. You play one, then you have a 1h until you can play it again. Slows people down and they can't exploit the farming maps during the Foundry hour. They would have to jump from one ot the other to get their xp.
@kmhknight
My campaign: The Madness Plague.
My quest: Blacklake Gold
My guild: "The Older" Age 30+, Casual
Himmelville - Are you easily frightened?
Click Here
On one side of the mountain, there were bones...
<Comment redacted> in this mission, then I <comment redacted>. So yeah, just <comment redacted> and you will get like 50K GP. Good stuff.
@kmhknight
My campaign: The Madness Plague.
My quest: Blacklake Gold
My guild: "The Older" Age 30+, Casual
But I'm weird. I hate rewards and incentives.
I think it may be time to start adding that F. Scott Fitzgerald quote to my sig again...
I have thoroughly enjoyed the two or three foundry quests I have played. Nothing too difficult, but always entertaining.
From the other side; I hope there isn't much restriction to Foundry. Because for every farming quest, I see 10 to 20 decent looking quests. And I know how these tools can be nerfed to uselessness. So devs, please take note; don't nerf the tool so it restricts creativity of the playerbase. Neverwinter nights main post purchase perk was being able to author your own stuff to the right level of detail. So far, the foundry has a great level of freedom. I like this as a DM and don't plan on taking advantage of it. Just monitor the data regarding how often a quest is played and do a check for farming. Punt those.
In general, that's what rules are for. That's why rules exist. To tell you you're not supposed to do things that you can't physically be stopped from doing.
If you could be physically stopped from doing it, we wouldn't need a rule to tell you not to.
@kmhknight
My campaign: The Madness Plague.
My quest: Blacklake Gold
My guild: "The Older" Age 30+, Casual
I have other idea. I will write it down in several points.
1) Let's give less experience for playing Foundry. Players should play and know main content. Thanks to Foundry they won't grind (I'm not sure if there is grinding needed at high levels), but if Foundry will give less experience, they will do quests to level up faster.
2) Let's stop giving experience for clearing creeps.
3) I kinda have a feeling that something like what I am gonna describe is there already, but if there is nothing like that, please, game developers think about it!:
Let's make some mechanics to compute... "Results" (let's use this word). Results should depend on number of defeated encounters, difficulty of encounters, dialogs read (shouldn't be hard to count time of player reading content of dialog and count in only these with like 5 secs and more), number of players in party (more = lower Results), time of doing quest (quick quests shouldn't be as well rewarding as long ones) and other things.
Results would be then a number describing a player's involvement* into the quest's progress. So longer and more challenging quests (in both combat and story) or even a long story quests will mean higher Results for player than quick 10-minute pure combat grind.
And why Results, how use it and what does it mean?
My idea is this: add experience to Reward's Chest (fulfilling point 2 in the list above). Now, number of experience and quality of item should depend on Results. This way, longer, better quests will be more rewarding than short combat ones. This will encourage players to play them and authors to think more about story and lore.
Why I think there is mechanic like this? Because I hope game developers didn't let 5-minute quest drop same item as 3-hours story based intrigue with coup d'etat and searching for the most rare epic flower in the most horrific cave in Faerun.
*not sure if I should use "engagement" word here, english isn't my native, and there may be a lot of mistakes, sorry
Anyway, this is only an idea but I think you will think about it and maybe implement into game (in this or reworked form).
PS: There could be also very symbolic Rough Astral Diamonds reward (like 1-100 per quest)
EDIT: I've created new thread for this idea.
NW-DGYDZ7EAL - Khelgar's Treasure Cave
NW-DTULANXJC - Khelgar's Hideout
Thread with suggestions for Foundry
For me, a very simple solution would be to remove xp from mobs in the Foundry and assign xp based on length of time to complete. A story-based mission that requires a lot of reading, travelling, reading some more would award the same exp as a dungeon crawl mission that took the same amount of time.
Everyone gets to play the way they want, everyone gets the same amount of reward for time spent.
.. I think auto keypress idlers are the only fly in the ointment, but they're a larger problem than the foundry, I guess.
I don't think it is VERY hard to write this thing to game's code. I'm amateur programmer and I would do that. Only difficulty is on think HOW one thing would be computed, and how the other one to keep balance. And how to exchange result with items/experience/diamonds/other things. I mean - it's harder to design balance for it, than implement it.
But, rewards dependent on time spent in quest would be a lot easier. On the other hand, problem would be if players would make empty foundry room, press T and go watch some movie. I think idea is how to remove exploits, not to make room for more :P
NW-DGYDZ7EAL - Khelgar's Treasure Cave
NW-DTULANXJC - Khelgar's Hideout
Thread with suggestions for Foundry
It was mostly just to see who gets in trouble for what, how severe, and what sort of things are viewed as OK and not OK. I do believe that if they turned down foundry XP, or made them not gain XP after a certain time, foundry creators would suffer. The thing is... players aren't getting any of the good equipment. They get greens, I've never even seen a blue drop on them. Foundry is mostly just for fun, or for the randomness that you can get. You can get told a story, or you can fly through the game, either at the start of your journey, or just to level an alt.
I can easily agree to the not fighting back thing, however. The idea is to learn your class, and to get better at it. Even fighting Ogres one at a time can do this, as long as they can fight back and you have to dodge. But even so, I was confused if players who play on these maps would be punished just as much as the authors who create them, though it sounds like you get the freedom of a single run to twice run just to see if the content is truly a violation, then report it. I appreciate you telling me how to report them, and will begin doing so as I find them.
Honestly, the best thing about this game is the Foundry. It lets you play the game however the heck you want it. Sadly, there are people that seek to abuse the system... but they exist in every corner of gaming. They just need to be weeded out. Hopefully we won't see any big lines drawn in the sand, and will continue to see the freedom so the majority can enjoy the game, rather than the minority <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> the entire game up for everyone.