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Devs! Please get rid of the glowing quest objective finder!
trocan678
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 65
Ok, now that I've got your attention, it's not all that bad. And it's definitely necessary in the city. I get that. But it feels like I'm on rails when you have both the quest trail AND the blue area outlined on the map, AND the objective itself marked, just in case I didn't get it. It kills the immersion. Yes, I know i can turn it off. But not the people I am doing the dungeons with. If they have it on, it doesn't help.
This is D&D. It's about dungeon delving...exploring. And finding what we're looking for SPECIFICALLY without having our hands held. But the objective finder is an instant easy mode. If you're really working to capture the D&D feel, that alone does alot to work against that goal. What motivation is there to search a dungeon and look for treasure when there's a glowing path that leads right to the end. It's almost insulting in terms of a player's ability to figure things out on their own.
Again, the town, it's very useful going to and from places. And even in areas like Blacklake or the Tower District (although again, those areas have the objectives marked in blue circles, in many cases). But in closed instances, and definitely dungeons, we should be left to our own devices to figure it out! Again, please don't tell me "turn it off", I know that's going to be the go-to answer. But in a group, I have no control over if the others are using it. Hell, even allow difficulty modes where a certain difficulty dungeon has it off by default. That would be acceptable as well, so groups who wish to use it in dungeons may, on the easier difficulties.
*EDIT*
I'm posting this here since it seems no one's really read to the end of my post before replying. Someone replied as such:
And my response:
I think that sums it up fairly concisely.
This is D&D. It's about dungeon delving...exploring. And finding what we're looking for SPECIFICALLY without having our hands held. But the objective finder is an instant easy mode. If you're really working to capture the D&D feel, that alone does alot to work against that goal. What motivation is there to search a dungeon and look for treasure when there's a glowing path that leads right to the end. It's almost insulting in terms of a player's ability to figure things out on their own.
Again, the town, it's very useful going to and from places. And even in areas like Blacklake or the Tower District (although again, those areas have the objectives marked in blue circles, in many cases). But in closed instances, and definitely dungeons, we should be left to our own devices to figure it out! Again, please don't tell me "turn it off", I know that's going to be the go-to answer. But in a group, I have no control over if the others are using it. Hell, even allow difficulty modes where a certain difficulty dungeon has it off by default. That would be acceptable as well, so groups who wish to use it in dungeons may, on the easier difficulties.
*EDIT*
I'm posting this here since it seems no one's really read to the end of my post before replying. Someone replied as such:
In some groups people will take the easiest/quickest way from point a to point b. Probably the only way to do what you want is to get in a group or guild of like minded people.
And my response:
Right, and I realized that about halfway through my post...and I also agree that my opinion shouldn't change how others play. So as I said...I'd be happy with an ADDED option where, for instance, we want to do "x" dungeon. We want to do it on "Y" difficulty. "Y" difficulty has scaled mobs a level or two or so higher than the party's average, and has no glowing objectives. That seems fair to me. And not hard to implement I wouldn't think.
I think that sums it up fairly concisely.
Post edited by trocan678 on
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"Other people like it". Be that as it may, you missed the spirit of my post. It's not dungeons and dragons. My DMs don't tell me where to go. We have to find it. The more things like this I find in the game, the more the game seems simply like a reskinned Tera. Why license and release something like this when you're just going to put it in easy mode.
*blank stare* Turn it off and pretend it doesn't exist.
No, i'm going to tell you to turn it off. People in groups, especially randoms, will always go the quick route, skipping as much as possible. Just because you don't like it, don't think you should remove it from others ability to use it.
There is usually stuff off the path that is the motivation. Good luck convincing others to get it though, as it's rarely that great anyway. Want to explore? Form your own party, set the rules that you are going for a full clear, all rooms, all mobs, etc. Or play with friends who do that. That's the only you will ever make sure that happens. Heck, people often skip the Cloak Tower items to get the extra stuff at the end.
Getting rid of the rainbow route isn't gonna make this d&d i'll take dice rolls first plz and ty.
Did you happen to miss the part at the end where I specifically said "add a difficulty" in which it's not present? Wouldn't that lend to the possibility that I DON'T necessarily wish for it to be taken away, but rather, add a happy medium? It can't be that hard to add a difficulty like that. Plenty of games do it. Even DDO has a difficulty slider.
So many selfish, self centered people on these boards. Its sickening. Always hiding behind some "true meaning of D&D".
Neither is forcing rules on everyone. Rule number one of D&D, if you don't like a rule, don't use it.
Hit Z, turn it off, and stop pretending that what you want needs to be enforced on everyone. Grow up and stop being selfish.
The Dire Crow - Tiefling TR
Alice L'ddell - Human GF
Ludovique - Tiefling DC
Once again, for the love of GOD. If you read my post, perhaps you'd see that I'd simply be happy with an added option of difficulty. That being selfish?
I think that's a pretty darn good compromise.
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
Right, and I realized that about halfway through my post...and I also agree that my opinion shouldn't change how others play. So as I said...I'd be happy with an ADDED option where, for instance, we want to do "x" dungeon. We want to do it on "Y" difficulty. "Y" difficulty has scaled mobs a level or two or so higher than the party's average, and has no glowing objectives. That seems fair to me. And not hard to implement I wouldn't think.
Agreed as long as "Y" difficulty gives the same rewards (xp, gold, loot) as standard difficulty. Because if it gives more, then people will want to do it just for the rewards, and at that point, you're forcing your "no glowie" gameplay on the rest of us.
I rather disagree...if I'm going to have the added option (that no one else wanted), and I'm willing to work harder for it (not saying you don't work hard for your loot), then the yield should be higher. Because at this point, you DON'T have to do it, and you can stay at your difficulty, and you can keep your rewards. That's not changing, nor am I taking those from you. And the payoff is simply higher because the chance of failure is higher. That's not the end answer, because I get it, I see your point of view. But "the answer" is way beyond me this late at night, and I'm wayyy too tired to continue to debate it. I believe there is a happy medium, I just don't have it, right now. But these discussions take it in the right direction.
Why would a glowy path dungeon at standard difficulty with a kobold at the end give the same reward as a dungeon with no glowey and a billionty +50 kobolds at the end. You get me?
This too is true
What motivation? You said it right there: Treasure.
(just did my first run of the pirate Crypt. Took forever because, even with the glowing line, the group scoured the place from top to bottom. Amazing number of chests in that place. Glowing line was really handy, though.... helped us remember which way we needed to go after wandering off it in search of loot. And that's another reason it's handy for exploring - you know that the path off the glowing line isn't going to lead you to the "end" of the dungeon prematurely.)
That's prettymuch all I can do at the moment. Let's see where it goes once beta's done.
No.
This is an optional difficulty that you want to make the game harder for yourself. You should just be happy if the devs use the time to create it for you.
The fact that you want additional rewards for doing so makes your motivation transparent. Not only do you want added difficulty, you want added rewards because you feel superior for not needing the glowie crutch, and you want the validation of having the devs "agree" with you by giving better rewards.
It's all moot anyway, because a) the devs are never going to do this and b) it'd be utterly meaningless for anything but the first run anyway.
No. Now you're putting words in my mouth and labeling me for the type of gamer you "think" I am, which, you're wrong. I would like a higher difficulty to make it more exciting. Don't get me wrong, treasure is nice, I love me some shinies, but, that's not my motivation, and if you had the slightest inclination into the type of person I am, I have no need for validation from random strangers on the internet, or the need to pat myself on the back. I want a challenge, and I want the reward equal to that challenge, but I'm the one asking for the change, so is it a dealbreaker? No. I'm fine with the higher difficulty without the higher reward. I simply think it should be there.
In "other games" without an OPTIONAL quest helper, people would not go and explore, either. They would alt-tab, go to a web site and look up maps or locations. The result was the same, the tedium wasn't. What's really the difference between the group following the sparklies and someone saying "BRB, just looking this up at site X!" while everyone stands around and waiting? The dungeons here aren't designed for exploration anyway. With few exceptions, you just follow the path, whether it has a sparkly trail or not.
People who complain about the difficulty of dungeons and claim that they are too easy really need to reserve judgement until they have ran some of the level 60 dungeons with a PUG from the group finder.
The fact that you can't see the consequences of what you want on everyone else's gameplay makes you exactly the type of gamer I think you are.
Hear hear. I love it. No idea why certain selfish people think its all about them...
All I'm hearing is someone who spent 200 dollars on a game and is attempting to justify that purchase, with little or no constructive criticism, and completely ignoring the part where I offered a happy medium alternative. How's that for a personal attack? It's ok to pay for my shinies then, but I can't work hard for them? Cause that's what I'm hearing.
Your thread states get rid of the quest finder thats the actual name of your thread . You want this even though most people like it and find it useful and as others have said you CAN get rid of it for yourself. see that Z button try pressing it.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
And what consequences would those be? People actually wanting to work harder for the better loot tables? Because that's what I'm hearing. I have offered constructive ideas for debate, and all I'm hearing is "no....no....no..." So what if people...with an added difficulty....will decide they want to do the harder dungeons. What do you have against someone "getting more" for "doing more"? This was never about the gear in the first place, mind you, I hadn't even thought about it. You brought it up.
Nobody cares. Turn it off if you don't like it.