I was thinking the same thing at the beginning of the game, at around 10-20 I was starting to think I made a bad decision choosing a tank, but I'd never maxed a tank before in an MMO so I decided to go with it. When I reached the higher levels, I started to notice I was gaining alot more threat than I was before aswell as being able to deal with damage + dealing decent damage also. When I reached 60 (earlier today) and entered some epic dungeons, I found I was really a tank. I was keeping threat, dealing great damage and also absorbing ALOT of damage. The tank is a good role, I understand it lacks at the beginning but towards the end they're great fun.
Why these 2 dont add up?
I'm 42 atm, i'm lucky i got a cleric by my side who can ditch out serious ammount of damage, since i cant.
Maybe im spoiled by tank-classes of other games, even action-combat MMO's, but this 'guardian' feels pretty borked. Not to mention the companion tank who has zero issues keeping agro.
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quiicktedsMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 2Arc User
I'm 42 atm, i'm lucky i got a cleric by my side who can ditch out serious ammount of damage, since i cant.
Maybe im spoiled by tank-classes of other games, even action-combat MMO's, but this 'guardian' feels pretty borked. Not to mention the companion tank who has zero issues keeping agro.
I followed this build, http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?166451-Envy-s-DPS-Guardian-Fighter-compendium
I made sure my gear was built for damage, not mainly tanking. That's an issue thats arising atm, a lot of people just go straight for the tank gear because they think it will increase their tanking, which it will, but your dps will be severely cut down. Using that spec and splitting the gear DPS/Tanky, I created myself a nice Guardian Fighter
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kotliMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 577
edited May 2013
A large part of agro depends on damage so you need good DPS. In game it seems we get more agro from increasing damage than increaseing threat in most cases.
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solkyoshiroMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Lol at people saying GF is useless. With the amount of dmg some of the top guys dish out most groups are screaming for a GF to save their life. A lot of the issues come from people not knowing how to work a spec with an action game. Just work your class man, read your skills and adjust your gear.
A GF can't guard a Cleric from the inevitable aggro that they are going to get on the large amounts of monsters you face in a T2 epic dungeon. Another cleric can.
GF and 1 cleric is still easily doable, but 2 Clerics is easier.
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aedndorfMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 18Arc User
I'm 42 atm, i'm lucky i got a cleric by my side who can ditch out serious ammount of damage, since i cant.
Maybe im spoiled by tank-classes of other games, even action-combat MMO's, but this 'guardian' feels pretty borked. Not to mention the companion tank who has zero issues keeping agro.
you can always get a tank companion of your own to hold aggro if you need to.
I main a GF myself. It took a couple of hours for me to really understand what I was supposed to do since I can't run into a room and force everyone to attack me for... forever, I finally understood that my job is to 1) hold aggro on specific mobs that are dangerous and 2) tank the bosses.
Adds is something I just have to let run past me because I can never hold the aggro of all of em anyway. I've noticed that GWF's are incredibly effective at least mid level at tanking the trash that I can't aggro so while they are doing that I lock down dangerous mobs in place and see to so that they can't touch my DPS, healers by positioning me in angles so that if they have a cone attack they will only hit my shield and noone in the team.
So the tanking is very different here then from other MMORPGS; its about learning which mob types that need to be tanked by you and don't be afraid of letting the trash run away from you and to your team because the trash will almost always be instagibbed by the CW's anyway so you as a GF just have to keep teh elite mobs/bosses on you all the tiem and occasionaly aoe taunt if it really is needed to give your team a 1-3 sek window to heal up.
The current plan is for new classes to be free - but they're charging money for character slots. That's what devs have said in the past. But we'll see what happens.
Since dataminers in the community have found assets for the Archer Ranger and Scourge Warlock in the game, we know those are the next classes. Unless Cryptic does something really bizzare with the build, neither will be a tank, so Guardians are probably going to be it for a while.
A large part of agro depends on damage so you need good DPS. In game it seems we get more agro from increasing damage than increaseing threat in most cases.
In t2 gear I'm sitting at over 6k power and 45% damage resist.
A GF can't guard a Cleric from the inevitable aggro that they are going to get on the large amounts of monsters you face in a T2 epic dungeon. Another cleric can.
GF and 1 cleric is still easily doable, but 2 Clerics is easier.
False man just false find a new GF.
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nemesis788450Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
dungeons get much more difficult...i think the first harder dungeon is the one where you have to fight that undead queen (haunting of something) because of the bazillion ads...and vellosk which isnt really a hard dungeon but the last boss is ridicoulos...(altough a guardian isnt really useful there i guess)...
Most GFs need to understand you can't stand in one spot and hold the mouse key down. Learn timely blocking, followed with timely stabs and cleaves. And please please please rebuff the boss with tide of iron. You will increase damage for the party tremendously with that debuff. And stay on the move flank bosses and move out of red on the ground.
dungeons get much more difficult...i think the first harder dungeon is the one where you have to fight that undead queen (haunting of something) because of the bazillion ads...and vellosk which isnt really a hard dungeon but the last boss is ridicoulos...(altough a guardian isnt really useful there i guess)...
It is all a strat. Pull groups of adds in packs to the back right of the room. Once room is empty pull her back to door entrance have the tank taunt/mark the two hulks and kite them the rest of the fight. They will respawn if you kill them. Party kills last few minor adds kills boss then the two hulks once she is dead.
GF, great for tanking high prio targets, bad if you think you can tank every single mob on the screen all the time.
Also has good defensive boosters for the team, so even if he dont have all the whelps or whatever, he can mitigate / cc to help, while holding the more dangerous targets.
Still love you build your assumption on a level 16 dungeon xD. get to 60 and you will see a difference.
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perfectself82Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
So many varying answers -_-
Dont know what to believe now lol...
It does get better man, if you enjoy tanking and have enjoyed tanking in other games you will enjoy tanking in this game once you get up to the content where tanks can be real tanks.
From my perspective GF tanks are great single target aggro magnets with excellent survivability utility. If you want to lock down a ton of adds you bring a CW. Sort of like CoH where the tank keeps the boss busy while the controller locks down all the adds and the blasters and scrappers just dump damage on everything. And the defender runs around and supports the team.
Of course in CoH you could run a full team of any single archetype and still have a pretty good chance of steamrolling most of the content, as long as you were creative with builds/tactics. That was one of the best things about that game, in my opinion, and I would love to see Neverwinter take a similar stance. Tanker Tuesdays were always a blast Miss that game. Erm... sorry for the derail.
Define "Shifts a fair bit" like, will i gain the ability to actually generate threat and do my job? I mean i cant help the morons who go LUL and run off and pull everytyhing until they die, then yell at me to "do my job"..... But it feels like i am a useless class in groups, Little to no ability to gain threat, Barely hold aggro on anything past your 3second Taunt thing, and I do damage like it already went out of style...
I'd say you share roles with the GWF in some ways. The real nasty stuff is your job and the big pulls in general. A good GWF will work with you to absorb the trash damage while you keep the biggest threat controlled. Doesn't always work out that way as some fights are filled with so many weak and strong trash mobs all mixed together that the cleric ends up having to kite the elite trash as the GWF and guardian just can't manage it all.
At first levels guardian doesn't seem so great.. but once you getting higher and reach 60 theres absolutly no problem keeping aggro on the boss and even some adds.
main importance is understanding your class and abilities... know what you can and can't. Understand how mark works..
I'm enjoying my GF to the fullest and i'm sure it will remain so.
I'd say you share roles with the GWF in some ways. The real nasty stuff is your job and the big pulls in general. A good GWF will work with you to absorb the trash damage while you keep the biggest threat controlled. Doesn't always work out that way as some fights are filled with so many weak and strong trash mobs all mixed together that the cleric ends up having to kite the elite trash as the GWF and guardian just can't manage it all.
I am not even joking, I kited with just using mark/enhanced mark about 30 mobs on the frost giant epic in heart of frost. the entire fight, sure I lost one or two here and there, just re-apped mark and kept moving, I used the into the fray to keep my speed up, didnt tank the boss once, just kited a small army of adds in a circle. group killed the boss with no issues. You might be going toe-toe or kiting like a champ, but aggro is there trust me.
I am not even joking, I kited with just using mark/enhanced mark about 30 mobs on the frost giant epic in heart of frost. the entire fight, sure I lost one or two here and there, just re-apped mark and kept moving, I used the into the fray to keep my speed up, didnt tank the boss once, just kited a small army of adds in a circle. group killed the boss with no issues. You might be going toe-toe or kiting like a champ, but aggro is there trust me.
Very nice! I've filled all sorts of different roles on GWF during diff boss battles as well. I like your tactic of grabbing the adds and kiting away from the boss.
You get the ability to mark targets in order to gain aggro, then eventually you can get an at-will that basically lunges you to a target and marks everything around it. You can also get traits that make it so marked targets give you double threat while generating more threat over time as well. So basically, you can fly around the map aggro'ing anything nonstop. You can hold aggro on a boss for an entire fight very easily, in order to grab adds you need to use something like the at-will I mentioned or your AoE taunt. Before level 35 you honestly just can't tank because everyone generates more threat than you, once you get a few key abilities and feats you can hold aggro easily. I'm level 60 and I have no problem holding aggro in epic dungeons. I never drop aggro on big bosses and I generally can hold the majority of the adds without trouble as well.
I followed this build, http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?166451-Envy-s-DPS-Guardian-Fighter-compendium
I made sure my gear was built for damage, not mainly tanking. That's an issue thats arising atm, a lot of people just go straight for the tank gear because they think it will increase their tanking, which it will, but your dps will be severely cut down. Using that spec and splitting the gear DPS/Tanky, I created myself a nice Guardian Fighter
Its no rocketscience to understand the way you want to do damage on a GF, specialy gearwise, but the way Cryptic made the system is imho a big flaw. The mechanics are 'meh' at best, kinda logical since the engine is CO-based, but unless it really change at the last 20 lvls, i still believe its 1 of the weakest tanks in MMO world.
I just hope the other 'paths' will be more focused towards a certain spec, unlike this 'stuff' of randomness. I duo mostly, so i dont mind my damage or my tanking, i just let the cleric do everything while i just keep some mobs busy.
Comments
Why these 2 dont add up?
I'm 42 atm, i'm lucky i got a cleric by my side who can ditch out serious ammount of damage, since i cant.
Maybe im spoiled by tank-classes of other games, even action-combat MMO's, but this 'guardian' feels pretty borked. Not to mention the companion tank who has zero issues keeping agro.
I followed this build, http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?166451-Envy-s-DPS-Guardian-Fighter-compendium
I made sure my gear was built for damage, not mainly tanking. That's an issue thats arising atm, a lot of people just go straight for the tank gear because they think it will increase their tanking, which it will, but your dps will be severely cut down. Using that spec and splitting the gear DPS/Tanky, I created myself a nice Guardian Fighter
GF and 1 cleric is still easily doable, but 2 Clerics is easier.
you can always get a tank companion of your own to hold aggro if you need to.
Adds is something I just have to let run past me because I can never hold the aggro of all of em anyway. I've noticed that GWF's are incredibly effective at least mid level at tanking the trash that I can't aggro so while they are doing that I lock down dangerous mobs in place and see to so that they can't touch my DPS, healers by positioning me in angles so that if they have a cone attack they will only hit my shield and noone in the team.
So the tanking is very different here then from other MMORPGS; its about learning which mob types that need to be tanked by you and don't be afraid of letting the trash run away from you and to your team because the trash will almost always be instagibbed by the CW's anyway so you as a GF just have to keep teh elite mobs/bosses on you all the tiem and occasionaly aoe taunt if it really is needed to give your team a 1-3 sek window to heal up.
And that is why they gave it away for free.
I semi-kid and semi-expect it.
The current plan is for new classes to be free - but they're charging money for character slots. That's what devs have said in the past. But we'll see what happens.
Since dataminers in the community have found assets for the Archer Ranger and Scourge Warlock in the game, we know those are the next classes. Unless Cryptic does something really bizzare with the build, neither will be a tank, so Guardians are probably going to be it for a while.
Mark is amazing when kiting a ton of adds during boss fights. I have trained around every add during the final boss on epic frozen heart.
Stab is the way to go when you need to tank toe to toe.
You don't tank everything, find the threat to the group and remove it away.
In t2 gear I'm sitting at over 6k power and 45% damage resist.
False man just false find a new GF.
It is all a strat. Pull groups of adds in packs to the back right of the room. Once room is empty pull her back to door entrance have the tank taunt/mark the two hulks and kite them the rest of the fight. They will respawn if you kill them. Party kills last few minor adds kills boss then the two hulks once she is dead.
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Dont know what to believe now lol...
Also has good defensive boosters for the team, so even if he dont have all the whelps or whatever, he can mitigate / cc to help, while holding the more dangerous targets.
Still love you build your assumption on a level 16 dungeon xD. get to 60 and you will see a difference.
It does get better man, if you enjoy tanking and have enjoyed tanking in other games you will enjoy tanking in this game once you get up to the content where tanks can be real tanks.
From my perspective GF tanks are great single target aggro magnets with excellent survivability utility. If you want to lock down a ton of adds you bring a CW. Sort of like CoH where the tank keeps the boss busy while the controller locks down all the adds and the blasters and scrappers just dump damage on everything. And the defender runs around and supports the team.
Of course in CoH you could run a full team of any single archetype and still have a pretty good chance of steamrolling most of the content, as long as you were creative with builds/tactics. That was one of the best things about that game, in my opinion, and I would love to see Neverwinter take a similar stance. Tanker Tuesdays were always a blast
I linked my char sheet, man proof is in the pudding.
Oh and a P.S. tip, stay inside the cleric blue circle when tanking, I have run so many pugs where people fight outside of it, it save lives!!
I'd say you share roles with the GWF in some ways. The real nasty stuff is your job and the big pulls in general. A good GWF will work with you to absorb the trash damage while you keep the biggest threat controlled. Doesn't always work out that way as some fights are filled with so many weak and strong trash mobs all mixed together that the cleric ends up having to kite the elite trash as the GWF and guardian just can't manage it all.
Extinction - GWF
main importance is understanding your class and abilities... know what you can and can't. Understand how mark works..
I'm enjoying my GF to the fullest and i'm sure it will remain so.
http://twitch.tv/xilana[/url]
I am not even joking, I kited with just using mark/enhanced mark about 30 mobs on the frost giant epic in heart of frost. the entire fight, sure I lost one or two here and there, just re-apped mark and kept moving, I used the into the fray to keep my speed up, didnt tank the boss once, just kited a small army of adds in a circle. group killed the boss with no issues. You might be going toe-toe or kiting like a champ, but aggro is there trust me.
Very nice! I've filled all sorts of different roles on GWF during diff boss battles as well. I like your tactic of grabbing the adds and kiting away from the boss.
Extinction - GWF
I just hope the other 'paths' will be more focused towards a certain spec, unlike this 'stuff' of randomness. I duo mostly, so i dont mind my damage or my tanking, i just let the cleric do everything while i just keep some mobs busy.