You do realize it's a screenshot with rogue being on the bottom of the table, right?
Yes, so according to your 'logic', the rogue is simply stupid and doesn't know how to play the class properly.
Oh well, enough feeding the troll for one day.
You do realize it's a screenshot with rogue being on the bottom of the table, right?
yup, still, lots of data not being presented. just showing raw dps numbers really only tells a small part of the over all story.
i understand why u presented it, but there is so much that goes into the #'s and the chart is just a list of raw data, because this
game has so many ways to max dps, who is to say the rogue did NOT take advantage, its just a # and to say 1 class is OP over another based on one # not knowing what all went into it.. "ALL" thats the issue, those who cry about it, dont want that info, they just want to 'say' ur OP and get a nerf. simple, if they say it often, ppl will start accecpting it, unless its shown that their argument is flawed. which it is..
Yes, so according to your 'logic', the rogue is simply stupid and doesn't know how to play the class properly.
Oh well, enough feeding the troll for one day.
we are glad you have had plenty of food. we will see you tomorrow
yup, still, lots of data not being presented. just showing raw dps numbers really only tells a small part of the over all story.
i understand why u presented it, but there is so much that goes into the #'s and the chart is just a list of raw data, because this
game has so many ways to max dps, who is to say the rogue did NOT take advantage, its just a # and to say 1 class is OP over another based on one # not knowing what all went into it.. "ALL" thats the issue, those who cry about it, dont want that info, they just want to 'say' ur OP and get a nerf. simple, if they say it often, ppl will start accecpting it, unless its shown that their argument is flawed. which it is..
I said it before and I'll say it again - it wasn't my intention to prove anything at all, it's just a screenshot, take it for what it is. Also, I didn't make any claims about any class being OP in my post.
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aiquesacoMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 19Arc User
Few things to take into account before coming here and whining:
New game needs time to allow people to get used to the mechanics and playstyle of the characters, become custom to what specs overcome what classes etc etc.
Some classes may very well be late bloomers at lower levels where sometimes it seems like they are underpowered during certain level brackets but become balanced at end game.
No point crying or whining for nerfs to damage outputs or mechanics of classes until people fully understand the classes.
PvP changes need to stay related to PvP and vice versa for PvE. Don't bring your arguments in to a PvP debate using PvE as a means to justify a potential nerf.
Study the other characters before whining to see what can be done to over come the issue you are having. Talk with other guild members and ask them questions about the class, do some home work before going on a tangent rant about how x class is OP.
Play the game, learn the game, learn to over come, adapt and change your play style. After you have done all this, then build constructive arguments about the issues so Perfect World can get a clear picture of the issues so they don't shoot the class in the knee.
Constructive posts consists of:
Level bracket.
Issue.
Reproducable?
Sceanrio in which it is being done.
PvP or PvE?
Description: Keep it clean and tidy, avoid ranting and going of on a tangent. Stay on topic. Confirm your findings with other players.
Totally agree
Typical trickster rogue carioca (Rio de Janeiro/ Brasil), always with the flash of a smile and a hidden dagger.
I said it before and I'll say it again - it wasn't my intention to prove anything at all, it's just a screenshot, take it for what it is. Also, I didn't make any claims about any class being OP in my post.
sorry, was not intending to point a finger at you. my bad.
The one thing I see people complaining about the most with class balance is the Trickster Rogue being OP because it does the most damage. I see this and go wtf huh the TR is the only Striker class, it should be topping the damage chart, it should have the most the damage of any class!
If the TR in your group is not topping the charts then he has failed your group and is not doing his job! If a TR is at the top of the chart then he did his job and you should congratulate him.
Why can't people understand this? Its pretty simple.
The one thing I see people complaining about the most with class balance is the Trickster Rogue being OP because it does the most damage. I see this and go wtf huh the TR is the only Striker class, it should be topping the damage chart, it should have the most the damage of any class!.
This right here, especially with people who play CW thinking they are the same as mages or other dps classes. It's one of many reasons i wish they had another caster class ready for open beta, like the Scourge Warlock, who i "think" is a striker, so those who want to be dps casters had that option. Though they would probably just see the class name and think otherwise. More people need to learn the difference in strikers, controllers, defenders, etc.
First off I'd like to say I agree with most people here on a GWF needing a buff, but here is the requested info:
Level bracket: 1-25
Issue: Lack of role
Reproducable: Everytime
Sceanrio in which it is being done: during leveling and early PvP
PvP or PvE: Both
Description: Almost every single GWF, myself included, feel that the GWF is almost useless and has no role until about level 25. You are supposed to be able to DPS, and leveling with a friend I did three times less damage then him until level twenty where it dropped to two times less. When I finally hit thirty it about balanced out and I really started to be able to play my role. you are also supposed to be able to do off-tanking, which is nearly impossible until you get revitalizing strike (possibly incorrect name), and enough good gear to get AC up.
I truly feel that none of the other classes are too broken, just GWF needs a early game big buff.
You know I can't remember how many times I've made threads or posts like the OP over the years. It doesn't matter.
The only weapon against ignorance is experience. You can tell someone the reality of the situation a million times but until they actually try it out, see it working in game (or in some video) they simply don't care. They aren't ignorant of game balance issues and how to address them maturely because they LIKE being ignorant. They just are.
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gukterMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 29Arc User
You know I can't remember how many times I've made threads or posts like the OP over the years. It doesn't matter.
The only weapon against ignorance is experience. You can tell someone the reality of the situation a million times but until they actually try it out, see it working in game (or in some video) they simply don't care. They aren't ignorant of game balance issues and how to address them maturely because they LIKE being ignorant. They just are.
I feel you and the OP so much. I play the GWF and I've loved him since lvl 1 and still do. Even though I'm only at 35. I know I'm not the biggest damage machine, I know I'll prolly loose to TR:s and even CW:s. But I take pride in knowing I'll keep my Clerics alive and well, by looking after the adds that most pug oriented people, never will do. They only see the numbers on the boss, not the encounter. And GWF:s are well built for encounters if you ask me.
There will always be ignorance, there will always be people who only see the trees, not the forest.
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briosoMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited May 2013
In PvE, why does it matter who does the most DPS? EVERY class can perform an effective role in a dungeon if they know where they fit. Rogues do insane single target DPS. GF soaks up damage. GWF can keep adds off the back line with AoE DPS and taunting abilities, as well as do some decent melee AoE DPS in general. CW can keep adds at bay and bosses CC'd (to an extent), while doing decent DPS. Clerics can support through healing while also doing decent AoE DPS. D&D, and as a result Neverwinter, is about TEAMWORK. You beating someone on a damage meter means nothing if you can't down the Mad Dragon because your team doesn't understand the concept of teamwork.
In PvP, classes have counters to other classes. One on one one class might beat another hands down. But one class doesn't beat all other classes hands down. That's where builds and individual skill come into play. And still, its ultimately teamwork. Understand your role on your team, and you'll be successful, regardless of your class.
I would have less issue with the GWF's lower damage output if he had better mitigation. I've played all the classes now to some extent and while playing the GWF I take so much more damage than playing any other class. On all the other classes I was almost level 20 before I ever really needed to use a potion. Playing as a GWF popping potions is common place even at the very low levels. I'm not trying to say the need to use potions is a bad thing but the fact that GWF is the only class I actually had to do it on means there is obviously some gaps between GWF and the other classes.
On my TR on the Orc Assault skirmish I dropped 220k total dmg on my GWF, same skirmish 83k total dmg. With that kind of dmg gap I expect something else in return and currently GWF does not have it.
Comments
Oh well, enough feeding the troll for one day.
yup, still, lots of data not being presented. just showing raw dps numbers really only tells a small part of the over all story.
i understand why u presented it, but there is so much that goes into the #'s and the chart is just a list of raw data, because this
game has so many ways to max dps, who is to say the rogue did NOT take advantage, its just a # and to say 1 class is OP over another based on one # not knowing what all went into it.. "ALL" thats the issue, those who cry about it, dont want that info, they just want to 'say' ur OP and get a nerf. simple, if they say it often, ppl will start accecpting it, unless its shown that their argument is flawed. which it is..
we are glad you have had plenty of food. we will see you tomorrow
I said it before and I'll say it again - it wasn't my intention to prove anything at all, it's just a screenshot, take it for what it is. Also, I didn't make any claims about any class being OP in my post.
Totally agree
sorry, was not intending to point a finger at you. my bad.
If the TR in your group is not topping the charts then he has failed your group and is not doing his job! If a TR is at the top of the chart then he did his job and you should congratulate him.
Why can't people understand this? Its pretty simple.
This right here, especially with people who play CW thinking they are the same as mages or other dps classes. It's one of many reasons i wish they had another caster class ready for open beta, like the Scourge Warlock, who i "think" is a striker, so those who want to be dps casters had that option. Though they would probably just see the class name and think otherwise. More people need to learn the difference in strikers, controllers, defenders, etc.
Level bracket: 1-25
Issue: Lack of role
Reproducable: Everytime
Sceanrio in which it is being done: during leveling and early PvP
PvP or PvE: Both
Description: Almost every single GWF, myself included, feel that the GWF is almost useless and has no role until about level 25. You are supposed to be able to DPS, and leveling with a friend I did three times less damage then him until level twenty where it dropped to two times less. When I finally hit thirty it about balanced out and I really started to be able to play my role. you are also supposed to be able to do off-tanking, which is nearly impossible until you get revitalizing strike (possibly incorrect name), and enough good gear to get AC up.
I truly feel that none of the other classes are too broken, just GWF needs a early game big buff.
The only weapon against ignorance is experience. You can tell someone the reality of the situation a million times but until they actually try it out, see it working in game (or in some video) they simply don't care. They aren't ignorant of game balance issues and how to address them maturely because they LIKE being ignorant. They just are.
I feel you and the OP so much. I play the GWF and I've loved him since lvl 1 and still do. Even though I'm only at 35. I know I'm not the biggest damage machine, I know I'll prolly loose to TR:s and even CW:s. But I take pride in knowing I'll keep my Clerics alive and well, by looking after the adds that most pug oriented people, never will do. They only see the numbers on the boss, not the encounter. And GWF:s are well built for encounters if you ask me.
There will always be ignorance, there will always be people who only see the trees, not the forest.
In PvP, classes have counters to other classes. One on one one class might beat another hands down. But one class doesn't beat all other classes hands down. That's where builds and individual skill come into play. And still, its ultimately teamwork. Understand your role on your team, and you'll be successful, regardless of your class.
On my TR on the Orc Assault skirmish I dropped 220k total dmg on my GWF, same skirmish 83k total dmg. With that kind of dmg gap I expect something else in return and currently GWF does not have it.