Rogue - Dex or Str?

lexthegreat

I've been doing pretty well so far but a friend of mine also has a Rogue. I went Dex because its our main stat and he went Str.

We often group together and have similar gear, yet he often beats me on total damage done, even though I crit more. I concentrate on crit and he goes for nothing but DMG.

Should I respec to Str and swap my gear for damage? Anyone have any ideas/suggestions?

Edit:
Thanks for the suggestions and answers all. After reading the old class forums, I decided to focus on Str and Pow instead of Dex + Crit + AP.

Spending my wonderful respec token for the good of everyone (namely me), I am now a full Str Rogue, focusing mainly on Power with some minor Crit and AP when I can get them without sacrificing Pow too much.

Over all my damage totals went up by about 12-14% (running the SAME dungeon) and I am a lot happier than I was mainly focusing on Dex + Crit + AP.

The downside is in PvP I lost a lot of my burst damage, allowing more classes to realize I am on them and try to get away, but that just means I get to chase them
Unless they are a GF that is, then I just ignore them because it is my firm belief that they can't die, and the CW target just looks too tempting to pass up.

mountain45

the GWF relies on Str more and rogue has always been dex... im sure. you wont get hit as much as he does.
but hey just mmo might be different

idontcomehere

lexthegreat wrote: »

I've been doing pretty well so far but a friend of mine also has a Rogue. I went Dex because its our main stat and he went Str.

We often group together and have similar gear, yet he often beats me on total damage done, even though I crit more. I concentrate on crit and he goes for nothing but DMG.

Should I respec to Str and swap my gear for damage? Anyone have any ideas/suggestions?

str increases all damage, which means his crits hurt more too. But you get Deflection chance so dex might be a little more defensive.

imivo

CHA isn't actually bad for rogues either, depending on how you play. The old class forum had some discussions on the topic. You can access the archive here.

idontcomehere

I'm still seeing Str as the best choice, since its all damage it includes crit damage and combat advantage damage. Kind of counter-intuitive for a rogue.

morvek01

Here's how I look at it. Would you rather hit hard all the time (str) or really hard some of the time (dex). Charisma is good but situational and actually has better weight than dex IMO if you run PVE more than PVP. With the stat system the way it is currently I would have to say str > cha > dex if running PVE. If PVP then str > dex > cha as combat advantage is a little harder to come by and you will definitely be taking hits so dex will be more useful than cha.

deanlogo13

if the game is based off of 4.0 then dex would be ideal, because if I remember right dex was applied both in to hit and damage. Anyways take care and enjoy the game.

marosci

morvek01 wrote: »

Here's how I look at it. Would you rather hit hard all the time (str) or really hard some of the time (dex)..

Well that would depend on how hard "really" hard is, and how often "some" of the time is, wouldn't it? Absent some actual math, the question/observation is meaningless.

morvek01

marosci wrote: »

Well that would depend on how hard "really" hard is, and how often "some" of the time is, wouldn't it? Absent some actual math, the question/observation is meaningless.

what math is needed? roll a rogue, mouse over stats. Everything AFTER 10 points is 1% per point, no matter what class you are (at 11 points you get 1%, 12 points is 2%, 24 points into a stat you get 14%). It just changes primary, secondary, tertiary stat priority depending on class. For rogues though Strength is damage bonus, Dexterity is crit chance, Charisma is combat advantage damage bonus. Yes each stat has some other things they do. That isn't my point. The point is go strength if you want power, go dexterity if you want crit%. Please don't try to downplay what I've said just because you don't see any "math" tacked onto my post. Either you agree or you don't. As a rogue I'D rather have more % to damage bonus through strength/charisma than crit% through dexterity from BASE STATS. You can gear for whatever you want at 60. At level 60 my human rogue will have 24str which is 14% damage bonus having started at 18str. Math....pffft. It's called preference.

marosci

If it's just "preference" between numbers that turn out to be the same in the end, then it doesn't get a whole lot more meaningless.

morvek01

marosci wrote: »

If it's just "preference" between numbers that turn out to be the same in the end, then it doesn't get a whole lot more meaningless.

Your statement has no thought to it /facepalm, at 60 you can gear for power or crit or try to balance both. Preference, as in, do you want a crit based build or a power based build which are the two main choices most rogues are dealing with currently. If YOU want your base stat distribution to be the same at 60 go for it. Do your own math, 6 points added to 2 stats of your choice and 2 points added to the other 4 stats by level 60. If you're going to reply to a thread at least try to apply your responses to the OP's question or statement.

telainfilo

According to Dungeons and Dragons rules there should be a feat called:

Weapon Finesse - You are especially skilled at using weapons that can benefit as much from Dexterity as from Strength.

This feat should use your dex modifier in attacks insteat your str modifier.

But it's long time ago I played paper and pen, so I don’t remember if the feat is applicable to a rogue or he is a fighter bonus feat and I don’t know if is implemented in the game.

maho4200

^ In 4'th ed everything is completely different, so you might as well forget everything you know (unfortunately)

In 4'th edition the archetypes are Trickster Rouge and Brawny Rouge, only the first is in the game at this point, I think the priorities are

Trickster Rouge: Dex, Cha, Str
Brawny Rouge: Dex, Str, Cha

Either way 4'th edition changed a lot so the Rogues always use DEX (as if they had Weapon Finesse).

morvek01

maho4200 wrote: »

^ In 4'th ed everything is completely different, so you might as well forget everything you know (unfortunately)

In 4'th edition the archetypes are Trickster Rouge and Brawny Rouge, only the first is in the game at this point, I think the priorities are

Trickster Rouge: Dex, Cha, Str
Brawny Rouge: Dex, Str, Cha

Either way 4'th edition changed a lot so the Rogues always use DEX (as if they had Weapon Finesse).

have you even logged in and looked at a character sheet? 1st this isn't PnP 4E, it's BASED on it, but in the end it's an MMO. 2nd this started as a question of which to go for by the OP, STR or DEX, within THIS game. Leave the tabletop out of it.

FACTS = for ROGUE, taken directly from the character sheet. Each point above 10 = 1%. 11 = 1%, 12 = 2%, 20 = 10%.
str is - stamina regen/dot damage resist/DAMAGE BONUS....
dex is - aoe damage resist/deflection chance/CRIT CHANCE....
cha is - deflection chance/companion stat bonus/COMBAT ADVANTAGE DAMAGE

so, when you roll base stats, go str/cha if you want to stack damage, specialize dex if you want crit

taneras

Both str and dex increase damage done, I just wonder which does more.

Also, the way this game goes, you can choose either str or dex, use gear to balance yourself out, and in the end be at about the same spot.

In other words, dex based builds that are high in crit but low in damage can stack power in their gear. Likewise a str rogue that's short on crit can stack crit in their gear to raise their crit %.

I don't think str is better than dex, or that dex is better than str. I think there is a balance between power and crit % that is optimal and you can reach this balance via str or dex because the gear is so flexible with stats.

morvek01

taneras wrote: »

Both str and dex increase damage done, I just wonder which does more.

Also, the way this game goes, you can choose either str or dex, use gear to balance yourself out, and in the end be at about the same spot.

In other words, dex based builds that are high in crit but low in damage can stack power in their gear. Likewise a str rogue that's short on crit can stack crit in their gear to raise their crit %.

I don't think str is better than dex, or that dex is better than str. I think there is a balance between power and crit % that is optimal and you can reach this balance via str or dex because the gear is so flexible with stats.

There is supposedly a softcap for crit%. If looking at endgame the questions should be, IS there a cap on crit% for diminishing returns? Is it possible to hit the cap, if there is one, through just gear? IF there is a crit% cap and you can hit that cap with gear, then going with a str/cha build is more advantageous due to a higher damage output overall.

taneras

morvek01 wrote: »

There is supposedly a softcap for crit%. If looking at endgame the questions should be, IS there a cap on crit% for diminishing returns? Is it possible to hit the cap, if there is one, through just gear? IF there is a crit% cap and you can hit that cap with gear, then going with a str/cha build is more advantageous due to a higher damage output overall.

Not necessarily. Assuming a crit cap and assuming it can be obtained through gear, a dex build isn't in any worse shape because they could just focus more on power than crit with their gear. Just because you build dex doesn't mean you have to build so much crit through your gear that you pass the cap. You can stop at the cap then go power, or stop 5% below the cap, and focus even more on power.

I think you can build both ways considering how versatile gear is. In the end, str or dex builds, you might be able to hit +x% damage via power and +x% crit chance.

travismog

These are what the stats do for a TR. Each pt in the attribute after 10 = a 1% increase i.e. 15 Str = 5% Dmg bonus.

Strength - Secondary Stat: 1% Dmg Bonus, 1% Dot Dmg Resist, 1% Stamina Regen

Constitution - 2% Hit Points

Dexterity - Primary Stat: 1% Crit Chance, 1% AoE Dmg Resist, 0.5% Deflection Chance

Intelligence - 1% Recharge Speed

Wisdom - 1% Control Bonus, 1% Control Resist

Charisma - Secondary Stat: 1% Deflection Chance, 1% Combat Advantage, 1% Companion Stat Bonus

So your stat priorities as a rogue is Dex > Str > Chr

hokonoso

this is DnD, str is the only stat that matters for melee classes, it has always been this way, rogue warrior paladin etc... str is the dmg stat... stacking str will always boost ur dps, dex boosts reflex and thus defense and thus wont give you the dps advantage that str does.

beaghan1

I am a dex build and I consistently out damage other TR of the same level and some a level or 2 higher. I don't know their build or gear but I know I've run at least a dozen times with TR's same level or 1 or 2 higher and so far I've had #1 damage every single time in those groups. maybe they just sucked though too. I do well in PvP too, I die but I kill much more often than I die

I'm not 60 yet so if there is a cap I'm not hitting it yet but I can say that it's been my experience that dex/str/cha is the way to go..

lastly, I think as with most questions on this forum the real answer is learn to play your class well. A crappy player could have the best build ever and they will still get owned..

laere89

What would the best race be if rolling a TR? And what paragon path?

travismog

hokonoso wrote: »

this is DnD, str is the only stat that matters for melee classes, it has always been this way, rogue warrior paladin etc... str is the dmg stat... stacking str will always boost ur dps, dex boosts reflex and thus defense and thus wont give you the dps advantage that str does.

Incorrect buddy read my post just above yours Str is a Secondary stat for TR. Dex is the primary stat. Str does increase damage but Dex increases crit. You need BOTH. A more balanced approach would be appropriate with Dex slightly higher. To say just stack Str is stupid. You should also have a healthy amount of Charisma although lower then Dex and Str. Read my post above yours, I clearly lay out what each stat does and the priorities.

travismog

laere89 wrote: »

What would the best race be if rolling a TR? And what paragon path?

Halfling or Human imo.

laere89

travismog wrote: »

Halfling or Human imo.

What about Paragon? I'm new sorry.

kgl7

I remember a thread on the old forums about stats in general for all classes and class specific. Dex did increase damage as well for the TR on that specific thread.

Dex is superior for all damage type builds of the TR. Str is secondary, also in terms of damage.

originpi

Based on 4th edition the "primary stat" of a class should determine its accuracy, but I have yet to notice myself miss (ever) in game, so that might not matter.

Doesn't your primary stat boost your Power?

It sounds like, since there is a bit of ambiguity in the stats, that unlike PnP 4th, it would be best to use a "balanced" stat layout at character creation, since it seems like trying to get an 18 robs you of having a secondary stat above 13.

originpi

laere89 wrote: »

What about Paragon? I'm new sorry.

I havn't checked on my TR, but I know my cleric had only one choice for PP (Divine Oracle), so you might not get a choice.

laere89

kgl7 wrote: »

I remember a thread on the old forums about stats in general for all classes and class specific. Dex did increase damage as well for the TR on that specific thread.

Dex is superior for all damage type builds of the TR. Str is secondary, also in terms of damage.

I think Dex just increases Crit, where Strength increases Damage.

Primary
Dexterity
+1% Critical Chance
+1% AoE Damage Resist
+0.5% Deflection Chance
Secondary
Strength
+1% Damage bonus
+1% Stamina Regeneration
+1% DoT Damage Resist

From the wiki.

lexthegreat

After re-arranging my gear and swapping things around, I am now concentrating on Power and STR over Dex and Crit.

I do a lot better now and can keep up or surpass my friend most of our encounters.

The downside is there is no longer a huge burst potential in PvP where I just see things melt away. But the damage is a lot more consistent.

laere89

Yea Strength seems to give you that consistency, where as Dex (crit) is rng based and more bursty at times (inconsistent)

misterianus

lexthegreat wrote: »

After re-arranging my gear and swapping things around, I am now concentrating on Power and STR over Dex and Crit.

I do a lot better now and can keep up or surpass my friend most of our encounters.

The downside is there is no longer a huge burst potential in PvP where I just see things melt away. But the damage is a lot more consistent.

Sad to read this, was hoping TR would be the crit favourable character, oh well guess ill stick my crit at 10% and stack STR and CHA along with Power and Armor penetration/crit