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Nothing Great about the Great Weapon Fighter...

embermouthembermouth Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 14 Arc User
edited April 2013 in PvE Discussion
I'm willing to see this through to the end to make it work and see if the class is really late bloomer like I have been hearing. The problem is I feel like I do no damage. I know I shouldnt be doing as much damage as a TR but I know I also shouldnt be doing damage comparable to a cleric lol. I should be doing about 60-75% of what a TR does.

Or on the other hand I should be able to take hits doing as little damage as they currently am. I honestly feel like a glass cannon (the classes I normally like to play like Mage) except without the cannon part. I feel like glass, I cant deal hits and I cant take hits for ****.

Im not even going to go into the threat issues this class have. Which are mostly due to the lack of damage. More damage should equal more threat. Not too mention we just dont have a lot of abilities that generate enough threat to keep adds off of clerics with reduced threat feats. I see guardians barely able to do it as is. Are we supposed to be a tank or DPS...I would like to get some developer clarification on what this class is supposed to be.
Post edited by embermouth on
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Comments

  • zardoz007zardoz007 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    In every PVP event, Lair and Skirmish I played today. A Guardian fighter topped the damage charts and the PvP score.

    The only time I was not on the bottom of the heap is when there where other GWF in the group and at least I beat them in damage.

    Sure you can say GWF is late bloomer and all this early level play is to be expected, but is that Really a justification for a class that is no fun to play at all until end game. And I bet when we get endgame there will be little to no content waiting for us.
  • terhixterhix Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 242 Bounty Hunter
    edited April 2013
    Yes, we totally need a 3rd thread about this on the first page of the class forums, because the other two and the ones on latter pages are just not enough already.

    Also, you do realize the name Great Weapon Fighter means nothing more than a Fighter using Great Weapons, where "great" literally describes the size of the weapon, and as such it has nothing to do with the class being "great"?
  • embermouthembermouth Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    I've heard very few people "claim" to be top charts on damage in PVP and some in PVE. Pics or it didnt happen pretty much and if it did, I want to see spec.

    Ok it carries a great weapon that does less damage than a clerics weapon? Seriously were not even fighters its pathetic. This class has no clear cut definition and is pretty much broken. I mean are we a tank, are we dps are we just another melee class they threw in the game to give it a little more flavor but we cant really exceed at anyone thing and pretty much are pretty bad at most of it. I mean im not level 30 yet, 28, but as far as I can see there is alot of improvement that needs to be made if it isnt by the time im 50. Im still hoping feats and paragon paths are going to make this class beefier by 60. HOPING!
  • roadkillaroadkilla Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    gwf is a off tank aoe fighter not a striker dps class.
  • roninthehoodroninthehood Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 184 Bounty Hunter
    edited April 2013
    There is NO chart for damage in pvp...... a few of you saying you did this or you swear to that are well... liars.
    The only chart in pvp is a general overall effect you had in the full pvp instance on all catagories. it is not damage.
    Also I did many pvp games today and the rogue is still 70%+ topping the charts and getting 10,15 ,20 kills to all others 3-7 kills.
    the person that said GF were topping the charts is either extremely drugged out of his gorg or is lieing out of his...
    That all being said the GWF needs a small increase in its dps. anyone who says it doesn't just wants to lie or is very ignorant.
  • roninthehoodroninthehood Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 184 Bounty Hunter
    edited April 2013
    roadkilla wrote: »
    gwf is a off tank aoe fighter not a striker dps class.

    no nO NO AND no!. good god man it has been proven too many times already. the devs say it is a damage dealing class. the official foroms and wiki all say it is a damage dealer class. it IS A STRIKER CLASS. AOE DAMAGE is a striker class . sorry 2+2 is not 5 and the gwf is not a defender.
  • terhixterhix Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 242 Bounty Hunter
    edited April 2013
    embermouth wrote: »
    Ok it carries a great weapon that does less damage than a clerics weapon? Seriously were not even fighters its pathetic. This class has no clear cut definition and is pretty much broken. (...)

    Need a tissue? Seriously, I've seen similar whining addressing one warrior archetype or another, it happened in vanilla WoW (and then on every single subsequent expansion pack), most recently it happened in GW2 where warrior not only wasn't weak but was straight out of the box overpowered.

    Given there are no major changes from BWE4, and given that in BWE4 the class absolutely destroyed the content (still), I am really eager to play on saturday. But then again, I don't expect to aoe-oneshot mobs while being indestructible.
  • izatarizatar Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,161 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    GWF is AOE DPS, not a tank in any way. As the levels go up, the AOEs become more and more important in dungeon delves, so GWF is has a desireable role there.
    In PvP, they have a tough row to hoe, and must play well with team tactics in order to stay competative.
  • henzaihenzai Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Silverstars Posts: 154
    edited April 2013
    sorry 2+2 is not 5 and the gwf is not a defender.

    That depends on the values of 2 :P And as for Damage dealing, it deals a decent amount of damage, you just have to position yourselves really well.
    I haven't tried the GWF since CBW 4, and even then i didn't get him that high in levels, but as i see the class It's more of a complement to the other classes ATM. It's a good enough class I'd say, you just REALLY need to know what you're doing, again, this is my own speculations and, well, guesses.
    terhix wrote: »
    Yes, we totally need a 3rd thread about this on the first page of the class forums, because the other two and the ones on latter pages are just not enough already.

    Agreed, one just can't have to many threads
    Also, you do realize the name Great Weapon Fighter means nothing more than a Fighter using Great Weapons, where "great" literally describes the size of the weapon, and as such it has nothing to do with the class being "great"?

    Here i agree as well, that's what "great" means. BUT that implies higher DPS
  • warpetwarpet Member Posts: 1,969 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    izatar wrote: »
    GWF is AOE DPS, not a tank in any way. As the levels go up, the AOEs become more and more important in dungeon delves, so GWF is has a desireable role there.
    In PvP, they have a tough row to hoe, and must play well with team tactics in order to stay competative.

    and how to u plan to be aoe dps whit all big nerfs they did on that part? u will hit 30 damage if a lot of mobs while tr ,dc, cw and even gf will out dps u in single target or aoe since they didint do huge nerf on any of their aoe powers,powrers or at wills,btw i think gf will get big nerf next so no point of lvl up him to :(
  • theazurehawktheazurehawk Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    no nO NO AND no!. good god man it has been proven too many times already. the devs say it is a damage dealing class. the official foroms and wiki all say it is a damage dealer class. it IS A STRIKER CLASS. AOE DAMAGE is a striker class . sorry 2+2 is not 5 and the gwf is not a defender.

    AOE damage is control not striker. Striker is single target dps only.
  • unblessedhandunblessedhand Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 51
    edited April 2013
    I have to agree that the GWF is obviously underpowered. I rolled one last night to see what the fuss was about. It seemed much less powerful than the cleric I played in previous beta weekends. I was sucking down potions like a drunk, and damage output was very disappointing. I ran some content with a TR from my guild and sometimes the TR would take out an entire group before I could get a hit off. The primary GWF strike (left mouse) doesn't even give you much AoE. Honestly, the GWF I rolled did about the same amount of damage as my old cleric, but had to be standing in melee taking damage to do so, and on top of that, I had almost no way to heal myself up in battle without a large inventory of potions.
  • mrbluebirdmrbluebird Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 45 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    terhix wrote: »
    Yes, we totally need a 3rd thread about this on the first page of the class forums, because the other two and the ones on latter pages are just not enough already.

    Also, you do realize the name Great Weapon Fighter means nothing more than a Fighter using Great Weapons, where "great" literally describes the size of the weapon, and as such it has nothing to do with the class being "great"?

    Oh my god, you are the worst. We know what the OP meant.
  • mettiidoremettiidore Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    terhix wrote: »
    Need a tissue? Seriously, I've seen similar whining addressing one warrior archetype or another, it happened in vanilla WoW (and then on every single subsequent expansion pack), most recently it happened in GW2 where warrior not only wasn't weak but was straight out of the box overpowered.

    Given there are no major changes from BWE4, and given that in BWE4 the class absolutely destroyed the content (still), I am really eager to play on saturday. But then again, I don't expect to aoe-oneshot mobs while being indestructible.

    lol now everyone knows you're talking out of your ***.
  • mostoastymostoasty Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 13 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    terhix wrote: »
    Yes, we totally need a 3rd thread about this on the first page of the class forums, because the other two and the ones on latter pages are just not enough already.

    Also, you do realize the name Great Weapon Fighter means nothing more than a Fighter using Great Weapons, where "great" literally describes the size of the weapon, and as such it has nothing to do with the class being "great"?
    terhix wrote: »
    Need a tissue? Seriously, I've seen similar whining addressing one warrior archetype or another, it happened in vanilla WoW (and then on every single subsequent expansion pack), most recently it happened in GW2 where warrior not only wasn't weak but was straight out of the box overpowered.

    Given there are no major changes from BWE4, and given that in BWE4 the class absolutely destroyed the content (still), I am really eager to play on saturday. But then again, I don't expect to aoe-oneshot mobs while being indestructible.

    A lot to say, nothing to contribute.
  • teethxteethx Member Posts: 219 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    They need to find a role that this class fits in and adjust them to be able to do it. Right now they can do nothing well, everything is pretty underpowered for anything they try to do short of swing their weapon really fast....
  • goodenhigoodenhi Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    What I am confused about is, if they intended this class to be a melee striker. Why didn't they come out with the Barbarian class instead of GWF? Would solve a lot of the problems
  • trique76trique76 Member Posts: 95 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Here is a minor test everyone can do:
    Roll a cleric and play to the newbie area till the harbinger and finished it.
    NOW roll a GWF, pick a tiefling just to procc some more damage here and there. Run the same area.
    Compare.
    I did this 2x today because I was chosing my visuals (cosmetics). The damage output by the newbie cleric is greater than the GWF. You can kill a zombie with 2 lances. You need 3-4 dashes to kill the same critter with a GWF.

    This is done by zero'ed characters, with basic stuff and no buffs or anything. I DID played as a GWF on BW4. As I said in another thread, it was fun and scary. Fun because the whole concept is amazing and nice for a player like me (I play with warrior-types only) but how they put it was totally wrong and broken. The animations are amazing, the dashing and all. I dont think they should be better than rouges, but the class is somehow broken, that is undeniable.
  • mostoastymostoasty Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 13 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Everything I've read here is dampening the excitement for the 30th. In a game with only 5 classes to choose from, they need to all be strong. I hope this gets adjusted soon.
  • hakarathakarat Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 130 Bounty Hunter
    edited April 2013
    trique76 wrote: »
    The damage output by the newbie cleric is greater than the GWF. You can kill a zombie with 2 lances. You need 3-4 dashes to kill the same critter with a GWF.

    This is done by zero'ed character, with basic stuff and no buffs and anything

    This.

    The feeling of questing in the Orcish area i think it's called Blacklake or Blacksomething district, it feels like it takes forever to kill those orcs, like you're swinging wet noodles around and hitting them for 60-100 damage... Takes forever to kill something...
    "There are more things in heaven and earth,
    Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
  • kartofflenkartofflen Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 58
    edited April 2013
    I've almost never posted on the forums and have to put my 2 cents in. Playing GWF currently and have to say holy <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> its lame. I do next to no damage and sure strike is hitting for approx 70-100 at lvl 23 its ridiculous cryptic has to understand if people feel incredibly underwhelmed by a character class it's pretty bad off. Think im going to have to shelf the GWF as much as I dont want to and roll with the hordes of TR just so im not irritated with the game. Running the second dungeon and scoring under the tank made me feel pitiful damage wise. I dont feel like im a bad player tbh i utilize combat advantage at all times but i just could not compete with them the TR out did me by approx 300k damage.
  • healhamstahealhamsta Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 572 Bounty Hunter
    edited April 2013
    embermouth wrote: »
    I'm willing to see this through to the end to make it work and see if the class is really late bloomer like I have been hearing.

    Get to end game and then make a thread.
    Delve loot murdered my TR, DC, & GWF. Nerf Plox:
    I know that it sucks to no longer get gear to sell from the Dungeon Delve chest but it was truly overpowered.
  • andrylar10andrylar10 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 45
    edited April 2013
    I have to agree that the GWF is obviously underpowered. I rolled one last night to see what the fuss was about. It seemed much less powerful than the cleric I played in previous beta weekends. I was sucking down potions like a drunk, and damage output was very disappointing. I ran some content with a TR from my guild and sometimes the TR would take out an entire group before I could get a hit off. The primary GWF strike (left mouse) doesn't even give you much AoE. Honestly, the GWF I rolled did about the same amount of damage as my old cleric, but had to be standing in melee taking damage to do so, and on top of that, I had almost no way to heal myself up in battle without a large inventory of potions.
    Do you think that maybe, just maybe it's possible that most of you don't really know what you're doing yet and are prematurely bashing a class because you're all still in newb mode with a class you've never played before? I would say it's highly likely. If you're drinking down potions like crazy, then learn to dodge and sprint better...learn to position yourself in the fight better...and maybe get a cleric companion. I mean are you guys serious with all of this incessant GWF flaming? I played the class during every beta weekend, including BW4 after they had reduced the damage and I still was able to solo quests at level 38-39 without dying. It definitely gets more challenging to solo stuff the higher level you get but it can be done. I'm not saying that to make myself sound awesome or anything, just pointing out that most of you people out there bashing this class really have no idea what you're doing yet...whether you haven't figured out a good synergy of encounters and at-wills; are still getting used to sprint; or are not using a cleric companion etc. Maybe give it a couple weeks instead of two hours playing a class before you start flaming it so hard.
  • tacc4990tacc4990 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 161 Bounty Hunter
    edited April 2013
    no nO NO AND no!. good god man it has been proven too many times already. the devs say it is a damage dealing class. the official foroms and wiki all say it is a damage dealer class. it IS A STRIKER CLASS. AOE DAMAGE is a striker class . sorry 2+2 is not 5 and the gwf is not a defender.
    No No and No! Good god man it has been proven too many times already. No dev's said GWF is a striker class! Community managers on the Twitch stream =/= developers. The official forums are full of incorrect information posted by non-developers. The OFFICIAL wiki that's linked on the front page (http://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Great_Weapon_Fighter) says GWF is a PRIMARY DEFENDER. The Wiki you're referring to is not the one backed by Cryptic/PWE.

    Quote from DnD 4e Players Handbook. I bolded the important parts where it says GWF is a Defender according to the OFFICIAL DnD rules.
    FIGHTER
    CLASS TRAITS
    Role: Defender. You are very tough and have the exceptional
    ability to contain enemies in melee.
    Power Source: Martial. You have become a master of
    combat through endless hours of practice, determination,
    and your own sheer physical toughness.
    Key Abilities: Strength, Dexterity, Wisdom,
    Constitution
    Armor Proficiencies: Cloth, leather, hide, chainmail,
    scale; light shield, heavy shield
    Weapon Proficiencies: Simple melee, military melee,
    simple ranged, military ranged
    Bonus to Defense: +2 Fortitude
    Hit Points at 1st Level: 15 + Constitution score
    Hit Points per Level Gained: 6
    Healing Surges per Day: 9 + Constitution modifier
    Trained Skills: From the class skills list below, choose
    three trained skills at 1st level.
    Class Skills: Athletics (Str), Endurance (Con), Heal
    (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Streetwise (Cha)
    Build Options: Great weapon fighter, guardian fighter
    Class Features: Combat Challenge, Combat Superiority,
    Fighter Weapon Talent

    How's that for proof? Sorry 2+2=4 and GWF is a Defender. You should do research next time and not just blindly follow the forum ragers.


    P.S. I'm not saying GWF is balanced. They need some love. But they aren't supposed to be Strikers and shouldn't be doing anywhere near TR damage. They need to buff up their survivability and give them threat bonuses.etc so they can be the Defenders they're supposed to be. I wish people would stop whining about GWF damage like they're supposed to be Rogues.
  • bejita231bejita231 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 18 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    GWF are meant to be aoe strikers, they should contend with controllers aoe, currently they dont do anything well, and they are certainly no tank, and off tank is stretching it, id say they arent a better offtank than a rogue who uses his clone
  • tacc4990tacc4990 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 161 Bounty Hunter
    edited April 2013
    bejita231 wrote: »
    GWF are meant to be aoe strikers
    Not according to official wiki or the DnD Player Handbook itself. Stop spreading false information.
  • teethxteethx Member Posts: 219 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    They really should think about scrapping this classes, there are like 15 different threads about how much people want to play them but they cant because any other class is FAR more effective. Dont bring a pillow to a fight of any kind, they just did....
  • warfurybladezwarfurybladez Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 29 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    tacc4990 wrote: »
    Not according to official wiki or the DnD Player Handbook itself. Stop spreading false information.

    So you use that as you verified information source? Then look on the right hand side.

    Role: Damage Dealer
    Secondary Defender

    Sounds like a striker/off-tank to me. Alternatively, considering every other class is distinctly defined, it suggests that the GWF role is unclear. It says he's a "Defender", then states he's a Damage Dealer with Secondary role as Defender....
    Underworld Knights - Premier Oceanic Guild
  • teethxteethx Member Posts: 219 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    So you use that as you verified information source? Then look on the right hand side.

    Role: Damage Dealer
    Secondary Defender

    Sounds like a striker/off-tank to me. Alternatively, considering every other class is distinctly defined, it suggests that the GWF role is unclear. It says he's a "Defender", then states he's a Damage Dealer with Secondary role as Defender....

    wow good find..
  • trique76trique76 Member Posts: 95 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Indeed there are ragers and people who have no idea what they are doing complaing about GWF, but there ARE people with enough background with positive criticism as well. These ones are not asking for the GWF roll better crits than the TR... But they want to know why, lets say, Clerics are doing more damage than the GWF if even guardians output their dps.
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