The Good the Bad and the Ugly of the Great weapon fighter.

morkelb78

Hello, I don't post a lot though when I do I try to take my time to think about what I am going to say, this is more of a message to the developers but please feel free to way in thoughts an opinions.

My following thoughts are asking PWE and Never Winter to try to define the Great Weapon fighter. Currently he works as an off tank or with a good healer a tank with out any version of taunt. That being said, early pre-level 20 I feel that he is a lack luster striker. Not only does my rouge seem to take less damage (due to kill speed) but it appears the GWF is totally reliant on potions, or a cleric companion.

So my thoughts on the matter, you can bring the damage of the great weapon fighter up, or you can give him some other options for taunting and holding a mobs attention. As it stands the great weapon fighter is not the guardian he would be in Players Handbook 4th ed nor is he the striker that he has been labeled as. This is solely the opinion of one gamer, but after playing 22 levels of the class and seeing the damage difference between myself and an = level rouge in lower level blue gear. Out damage me by 300,000 points of damage in a level 21+ instance I do not see how the GWF is in the same class as a striker currently.

That being said, I can see a lot of great things that can come from this class. The aoe damage is nice, some of the prone effects that can be caused by this class are amazing. I really love some of the skills of this class, however I just feel the damage is lacking. Even with speccing for the use of rage more often, this class seems to fall short of the mark of a striker.

nwobrock

I felt the exact same way. I really enjoyed Mighty Leap and Avalanche of Steel. Then I got Takedown and that was awesome too. So far my only complaint is that the damage is PATHETIC. Doing the Orc Assault and Blacklake skirmishes several times I was always in the bottom two for damage dealt and top two for damage taken. I was out-dpsed by Guardian Fighters and Clerics....

I know what you're thinking..."you are just terrible, l2p, etc..." I'm not saying I'm the best player in the world but I was using all my available powers, going Unstoppable, and attacking groups to get the most out of my reaping strike and bonus damage effects.

Clerics and even Guardian Fighters were out-dpsing me by 50-75k every time. Why should a Cleric ever be able to out damage a FIGHTER CLASS. He can already attack from range AND heal. Why the master race damage as well? Why should you ever choose GWF over Cleric when Cleric gets better survivability, better damage, and heals? It is just a better class in all aspects.

The GWF was VERY fun to play and if I never got a chance to see the other classes damage totals I probably wouldn't even be complaining right now. However, as it stands now the GWF just needs a hefty damage increase and it will be a solid class with its aoe for trash mobs, along with interrupts and knockdowns.

mutley1984

/signed

10char

zanixius

I started my GWF in BW3, got up to 31, tried it a few more lvls in BW4 up to 36 before I had to shelve it for a Guardian, which I lvled up to mid 20's, twice (I deleted the first in BW4 to play with a friend).

Anything a GWF can do, a Guardian can do better with the exception of mobility, which is pointless if the GWF can't do dmg or tank. Some might claim GWF is supposed to be some kind of hybrid, a mix between striker and defender. If that is the case then GWF fails horribly at filling both roles. A Guardian is far more versatile as it has both strong threat generation over time and on-demand aggro abilities now in BW4, amazing survivability, while also dealing very respectable damage. There have been numerous times either I have come very close to first in damage dealt during skirmishes, or I have out easily out damaged GWF. Playing a GWF I would consistently get out damaged by Clerics even. In PvP much like in PvE, GWF was complete and utter joke because the damage is just absolutely laughable.

What I would propose is GWF have a clearly defined role as I don't see any point in wanting to bring an off tank, even in higher end dungeons when a competent Guardian, 2 tempered DPS who know when to apply CC to relieve pressure for a Cleric to heal would be most likely far more efficient than 'wasting' a slot on a half-finished class with an identity crisis.

Through a completely overhauled set of Traits and Paragon trees, GWF should be able to chose to specialize in his role, striker or defender, rather than what we currently have, the worst of both worlds.

klaw10

He's not supposed to tank or dps bosses. He's supposed to be an aoe monster and clean up the adds.

zanixius

klaw10 wrote: »

He's not supposed to tank or dps bosses. He's supposed to be an aoe monster and clean up the adds.

If that is the case it's pointless to bring one over a TR.

Since all our At-Wills are cleaves that do less damage the more enemies we hit, we have to swing more often to do an equal amount of damage that it would take for a TR to individually burn them one by one. Except the TR gets the added benefit that as they are picked off one at a time, the group is taking less damage.

So again, most bosses have a 2 maybe 3 add phases that can be easily handled by a pair of TR's simply focus firing them then shifting their attention back onto the boss, where their single-point DPS truly shines, versus having a potion-chugging waste of a party spot GWF occasionally flail their 2h nerf bat at a handful of trivial add waves, only to do zero damage to the actual boss.

darkstarx3

zanixius wrote: »

If that is the case it's pointless to bring one over a TR.

Since all our At-Wills are cleaves that do less damage the more enemies we hit, we have to swing more often to do an equal amount of damage that it would take for a TR to individually burn them one by one. Except the TR gets the added benefit that as they are picked off one at a time, the group is taking less damage.

So again, most bosses have a 2 maybe 3 add phases that can be easily handled by a pair of TR's simply focus firing them then shifting their attention back onto the boss, where their single-point DPS truly shines, versus having a potion-chugging waste of a party spot GWF occasionally flail their 2h nerf bat at a handful of trivial add waves, only to do zero damage to the actual boss.

sadly i couldn't agree more i played GWF in BW3 and BW4 and both times it felt pathetic it felt like i was wearing paper armor swinging a big nerf bat doin <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> poor dmg and yes i agree i seen clr and tank out dps gwf almost always and in pvp is a even bigger joke this class needs about a 100% dmg increase and no decrease for the more mobs hit i read other spots people say 25% dmg but even this would be far to weak i seen end game videos of GWF doing 150 dmg @ lvl 50 which a TR could do at lvl 10 LOLOL GWF must be some sort of TROLL attempt by cryptic....

memorythought

zanixius wrote: »

If that is the case it's pointless to bring one over a TR.

Since all our At-Wills are cleaves that do less damage the more enemies we hit, we have to swing more often to do an equal amount of damage that it would take for a TR to individually burn them one by one. Except the TR gets the added benefit that as they are picked off one at a time, the group is taking less damage.

So again, most bosses have a 2 maybe 3 add phases that can be easily handled by a pair of TR's simply focus firing them then shifting their attention back onto the boss, where their single-point DPS truly shines, versus having a potion-chugging waste of a party spot GWF occasionally flail their 2h nerf bat at a handful of trivial add waves, only to do zero damage to the actual boss.

Maybe it's that I got up to 31 in BW3 and went to 41 in BW4 but my general experience has been FAR different than everyone else's in this thread.

This isn't to say that the GWF doesn't have some problems. Reaping Strike is clumsy, punishing charge being pushed back to level 45 kills our survivability, the lack of a ranged peel or attack makes some bosses almost impossible, and determination needs to build from more than just damage taken or our DPS hurts a lot in group scenarios where we're not being attacked all the time and our AoE encounters could use a damage boost.

That said, 3-hits of Weaponmaster's Strike is all it takes to wipe out a group of even level minions. Also applying the debuff, then hitting unstoppable and working through Sure Strike twice and two single target encounter abilities all in the unstoppable window can destroy giant chunks of boss health and take out a LT very easily.

Then again I was built around critting often and hard.

I would have liked to do more dungeons but with the dungeon finder being so out of whack that wasn't really feasible, but I was doing just fine in the 10 levels I moved last weekend. Heavy crits, lots of damage and it would appear that Weaponmaster's Strike is able to build combat advantage with itself.

So just keep at it, you'll eventually blossom into a beautiful deadly butterfly.

arashiwatanabe

You guys must be doing something wrong. I've been levellling with another friend of mine who's a real life friend and we both play GWF's.
We're both new to the game, and started out not knowing what to do, how to specc, and what to use our feat points for. We ended up quitting at lvl 15, deleting our chars and starting over again.
We did some research on how to build, specc and use what's given to us.
And we haven't lost to anyone on dps, and we're close to reaching 30right now, and we generally beat wizards, and TR's with about 30% or more dmg done at the end of the dungeon.

Is the class lacking dps?
Both yes and no, it depends on the player and their ability to adapt.
Cragmire crypt, we both did 400kdmg I believe it was, with the same amount of mobs killed.
Whilst the TR and Wizzy was doing between 170-230k.
While questing we got two cleric companions, that we went and bought level 60 T1 epis for. (cost us 10k AD each so it's nothing special)
In terms of healing done, our clerics are about 20% behind the actualy cleric in the grp after a dungeon is completed.

Sure, the GWF might have some problems but I think most are on the player side.
No offense to you, and I wish you good luck with it. Even if this is an old post.

ariloum

I'd like to tell you that you should look at the balance when lategame stages reached, when your gear score is like 14k+.. I feel very disappointed now with damage amounts that GWF could produce with the most expensive top t2 gear DPS - avatar and ancient sword/knots...
It's feels like a joke when you're hitting rogue or any other class with same gear score - you just can't see your damage amounts you produce, it looks like you're hitting those armorless dudes like crazy and they easilly tank you. So, even if you're 90% of the fighttime getting on some DD dude he could just ignore you and try to kill your DD first - this feels like you just turn off your main weapon and hitting by hands with no damage producing and there's nothing you can do but defence your carryes out of the rogues and all you can do with them is some kind of stun with very short duration.
I could tell you it's very disappointing feeling, like you're a healer class and you can do 0 damage and suddenly you discovered that you have no any heal ability at all. Playing against a rogue 1x1 feels like you're using toothpick against space mothership big freakin' gun.

P.S.: Someone told here, that GWF is made for PvE to get adds out... Pff... Have you ever seen Control Wizard with dmg output like x2 or x3 more than your GWF could get at the best try? It's not even close to the best AOE damage dealer at all. Another cons is that nobody want's to have GWF in their dungeon instances coz it's just useless as DD or TANK and steals the slot out of the party. If I knew this before my GFW character would never born... But, after such a fail, I can't tell you that I need another character - it's kind a waste of time to play the game with characters balanced like that. No dog - no play, it's as simple as that.

sailracer

Interesting that so different views are brought forward.
I have one level 60 of each class, all of which have a GS over 14k.
The difference (in solo play) between GWF dps and TR/CW/HR dps is the amount of damage the GWF takes. Which is much more in each fight, even if he finishes off mobs very quickly. Solo damage rivals TR, AoE damage is second to none.

In guild we have two top geared GWFs, and their DPS in dungeons is amazing, always top spot (usually around 20% higher), even with very good and top geared CWs.

zebular

Thread closed for necromancy.