I was just about to say... Not So Fast definitely seems to have gotten a dmg nerf for sure.
My broscience feel of how much it was reduced seems to be about 50% less damage. Enough I'm going to remove it from my hotbar and just focus single target dps.
My broscience feel of how much it was reduced seems to be about 50% less damage. Enough I'm going to remove it from my hotbar and just focus single target dps.
There's something very wrong with that statement in-regards to how GWF should function...
"There are more things in heaven and earth,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
0
rojorMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 178Bounty Hunter
edited April 2013
welp, this class is virtually ruined unless they expect the items to generate most of your damage or tanking benefits i don't see how this is a feesable class anymore.
0
kurtixwarlordMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 19Arc User
There's something very wrong with that statement in-regards to how GWF should function...
I think is VERY wrong from the start of want the GWF to be a full DPS class......
0
derfnose88Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited April 2013
havent tried other classes yet since this being my first BW, but the class feels extremely squishy for a "Mail" class. Not to mention the damage seems to be equivalent to swinging wet noodles at my enemies (only level 16 right now). I think the healing skill needs a buff, pretty stupid to get hit for 300, 160, 300, and when off CD heal for 80 hp.
My GWF seemed SO weak today... I mean my priest of almost same level deals more damage with 'at will' attacks now, is this some kind of a joke? I was just standing and hitting a single elite mob of my level, and he lost like 4-5% of total hp per hit, while HIS damage was quite big. I would call it boring, but I was actually getting owned and nearly died
So, even though GWF is not my main char, I noticed that he got considerably weaker.
To compare - my CW became a bit harder to play(but still enjoyable, my cleric became ALOT easier to play)
I think is VERY wrong from the start of want the GWF to be a full DPS class......
It is wrong for a GWF to be a full DPS class but that's what I wanted because it was a fun playstyle but now with these nerfs to much of the Destroyer tree, the defensive traits to this class are the only thing that really shines anymore and that's not something I was interesting in doing.
Yeah the defense and AOE tanking skills look fun but I was looking forward to being a wrecking machine and now since it's all nerfed, defense orientated GWF traits are the only thing that even looks viable anymore and if I really wanted to play a tank, i'd just go Guardian Fighter and still have just as good DPS as a GWF now I guess.
"There are more things in heaven and earth,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
In a way, I'm glad that I'm not playing this weekend as it sounds like I would be very frustrated with this class now (which would be such a shame). Hope this gets rectified from what you guys are describing now.
The only logical guess I can come up with in response to this over handed nerf beating the GWF took is something to do with alpha testers. Nothing I've seen in the open beta showed the GWF being unbalanced, I'd say the GWF was actually kind of lacking in damage in my opinion. He still had his niche in being mobile and doing acceptable damage in BW 3; now with the one two punch of becoming a Nerf Weapon Fighter or NWF and losing his mobility until level 45 he doesn't have an identity really. Not mobile until late into the game and now his damage is far subpar. He's not a real tank like the GF, not a damage dealer like the TR, a controller like the wiz and not a leader like the cleric. He's really just a crappy mix of immobile dps and tanker depending how you spec but not good at either.
Unless the alpha testers saw something the OB players haven't I can only ask wtf happened to the NWF?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Extinction - GWF
0
neverasherMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
The only logical guess I can come up with in response to this over handed nerf beating the GWF took is something to do with alpha testers. Nothing I've seen in the open beta showed the GWF being unbalanced, I'd say the GWF was actually kind of lacking in damage in my opinion. He still had his niche in being mobile and doing acceptable damage in BW 3; now with the one two punch of becoming a Nerf Weapon Fighter or NWF and losing his mobility until level 45 he doesn't have an identity really. Not mobile until late into the game and now his damage is far subpar. He's not a real tank like the GF, not a damage dealer like the TR, a controller like the wiz and not a leader like the cleric. He's really just a crappy mix of immobile dps and tanker depending how you spec but not good at either.
Unless the alpha testers saw something the OB players haven't I can only ask wtf happened to the NWF?
Keep in mind classes are being balanced mostly around lv60 and end-game content.
It's inevitable that they feel very different as they level up. Like rogue feels OP below lv30 while CW and GWF are very frustrating before lv30-40ish.
However, at lv60 things come together quite balanced though some tweaks are still needed (especially for cleric). But you will realize major changes happen to classes compared to their lower level 'versions'. Like cleric having effectively negligible dmg and rogue getting one-shotted by bosses.
And the GWF definitely had too much dmg for a defender. Things like the basically constant +15% dmg and 10% crit chance from the destroyer path/powers had to go. Also the +25% dmg while unstoppable is active.
0
volcxxxMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, SilverstarsPosts: 0Arc User
edited April 2013
at lv 50 GWF still sux.
/sadpanda
Old "Blood and Sand: Unchained" quest Played more than 100 000 times!
> TRY IT NOW!
rockxoonMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 23Arc User
edited April 2013
GWF is no fun to play atm - crafting system sucks 2 - it feels like those ****y facebook free2play
0
occamsMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited April 2013
Reading these post makes me sad, single parent so i can't spare the money to get a pack but was hoping to read good things from this beta and all i read is they broke my fav class and the professions is borked to. Wish i could get in.
And the GWF definitely had too much dmg for a defender. Things like the basically constant +15% dmg and 10% crit chance from the destroyer path/powers had to go. Also the +25% dmg while unstoppable is active.
Hold on a second, have I missed something? Since when was a GWF a defender! He certainly does not take damage as a defender (this is based on my knowledge from BW3). Let me quote from the Cryptic themselves regarding what a GWF is:-
Role: Damage Dealer and Secondary Defender
That to me says first DPS, seconf defender.
Based on peoples comment from BW4, Damage Dealer seems to have gone out through the window!
GWF is a Fighter. All fighters are Defenders.
The difference between the GF and GWF is that GF focuses on defense and is a single target tank (for big mobs and bosses) while GWF opts for more dmg and is an aoe tank (for minions).
And GWF is still unmatched in aoe efficiency and dmg output. When I face a mob pack of 6 or 8 I like being a GWF instead of a TR.
GWF is a Fighter. All fighters are Defenders.
The difference between the GF and GWF is that GF focuses on defense and is a single target tank (for big mobs and bosses) while GWF opts for more dmg and is an aoe tank (for minions).
And GWF is still unmatched in aoe efficiency and dmg output.
I agree that they are defenders in 4e, but this is not 4e and the description given by Cryptic (as highlighted above) does not agree to this statement (like I said, they certainly don't act as defenders)
0
volcxxxMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, SilverstarsPosts: 0Arc User
Well, if Cryptic really wanted GWFs to be damage dealers they wouldn't nerf the dmg of the class in every single big patch, would they?
When did you played GWF? And what lv if i may ask?
And... did you ever played CW?
Few days ago, lv60. I definitely felt the nerf but minions were still going down fast in the zones I played.
My main is/will be a CW. But I don't think CW is a real aoe class.
You're propably right and Cryptic has decided to change direction with this class, but doesn't mean I have to agree with or like it.
Maybe they are planning for the Barbarian class to be the big, two handed damage dealer (here's hopeing ). Now, there can be no arguements with this class of what it should be.
0
rojorMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 178Bounty Hunter
Well, if Cryptic really wanted GWFs to be damage dealers they wouldn't nerf the dmg of the class in every single big patch, would they?
From what i understood of the description of the class and skill choices you have to choose to be an aoe dps or a pseudo aoe tank, now the aoe tank option is still somewhat viable however the aoe dps has been nerfed into the ground. Granted in D&D a character title with "fighter" in it meant that you would be some form of tank, Neverwinter is however clearly not adhering to D&D cannon as referenced by how they have designed their version of the cleric so either something has gone horrifically wrong in the balancing department or they are trolling us for ****s and giggles.
0
volcxxxMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, SilverstarsPosts: 0Arc User
Few days ago, lv60. I definitely felt the nerf but minions were still going down fast in the zones I played.
My main is/will be a CW. But I don't think CW is a real aoe class.
I was playing alfa couple days ago too. Lv 60.
And my feelings about the class are tottally opposite to yours.
I am comparing this class to any other (lv50, cant say about lv 60 becouse of NDA), and - in my opinion - this is weakest class on the table right now.
Worst change for me is nerfing Sure Strike to single-target. GWF is now forced to use slow, boring, clumsy at-wills.
Cant say much becouse of NDA, but in BW3 i loved GWF, now i just hate his playstyle (BW4).
Old "Blood and Sand: Unchained" quest Played more than 100 000 times!
> TRY IT NOW!
I was using roar, weapon master strike and not so fast for aoe and sure strike, indomitable battle strike (sometimes restoring strike instead of roar) for single target. I was Destroyer specced.
I went on killing several mob packs with the green cleric companion in the last zone. I found only the packs with the huge spider and such a bit challenging. And I always was around 75% hp between pulls with a low level of potion use.
0
volcxxxMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, SilverstarsPosts: 0Arc User
I was using roar, weapon master strike and not so fast for aoe and sure strike, indomitable battle strike (sometimes restoring strike instead of roar) for single target. I was Destroyer specced.
I went on killing several mob packs with the green cleric companion in the last zone. I found only the packs with the huge spider and such a bit challenging. And I always was around 75% hp between pulls with a low level of potion use.
i will not argue, but looks like you were testing before nerf.
Old "Blood and Sand: Unchained" quest Played more than 100 000 times!
> TRY IT NOW!
Lack of Punishing Charge is a really bad thing, both for manouverability and fun.
Nerf to Sure Strike's aoe dmg is a horrible nerf. If you must make it a single target strike, needs to be a significant single target dmg boost to make it an viable option.
At lvl 35 I seem to have decent amount of Determination to use my shift skill, but that's only because I was soloing and stuff was hitting me lots filling up the bar quickly. Would hate to see what happens in a party setting.
Combined with all the significant nerfs to all the feats as mentioned by the OP, it's a pretty big dmg nerf. Will try and get a party sometime this weekend to test it more.
that and lashing blade and shocking execution. basically the sustained dps are still there but the big bursts have been nerfed. also it looks like being hit while stealthed makes you lose more stealth meter than it used to.
Comments
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
I was playing Path of Exile, stopped to head back here... on my way back to PoE now.
Thx Cryptic.
T
My broscience feel of how much it was reduced seems to be about 50% less damage. Enough I'm going to remove it from my hotbar and just focus single target dps.
There's something very wrong with that statement in-regards to how GWF should function...
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
I think is VERY wrong from the start of want the GWF to be a full DPS class......
So, even though GWF is not my main char, I noticed that he got considerably weaker.
To compare - my CW became a bit harder to play(but still enjoyable, my cleric became ALOT easier to play)
It is wrong for a GWF to be a full DPS class but that's what I wanted because it was a fun playstyle but now with these nerfs to much of the Destroyer tree, the defensive traits to this class are the only thing that really shines anymore and that's not something I was interesting in doing.
Yeah the defense and AOE tanking skills look fun but I was looking forward to being a wrecking machine and now since it's all nerfed, defense orientated GWF traits are the only thing that even looks viable anymore and if I really wanted to play a tank, i'd just go Guardian Fighter and still have just as good DPS as a GWF now I guess.
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
Unless the alpha testers saw something the OB players haven't I can only ask wtf happened to the NWF?
Extinction - GWF
It's inevitable that they feel very different as they level up. Like rogue feels OP below lv30 while CW and GWF are very frustrating before lv30-40ish.
However, at lv60 things come together quite balanced though some tweaks are still needed (especially for cleric). But you will realize major changes happen to classes compared to their lower level 'versions'. Like cleric having effectively negligible dmg and rogue getting one-shotted by bosses.
And the GWF definitely had too much dmg for a defender. Things like the basically constant +15% dmg and 10% crit chance from the destroyer path/powers had to go. Also the +25% dmg while unstoppable is active.
/sadpanda
Old "Blood and Sand: Unchained" quest
Played more than 100 000 times!
> TRY IT NOW!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ecy4o6JqLc
Hold on a second, have I missed something? Since when was a GWF a defender! He certainly does not take damage as a defender (this is based on my knowledge from BW3). Let me quote from the Cryptic themselves regarding what a GWF is:-
Role: Damage Dealer and Secondary Defender
That to me says first DPS, seconf defender.
Based on peoples comment from BW4, Damage Dealer seems to have gone out through the window!
What a real, real shame.
GWF is a Fighter. All fighters are Defenders.
The difference between the GF and GWF is that GF focuses on defense and is a single target tank (for big mobs and bosses) while GWF opts for more dmg and is an aoe tank (for minions).
And GWF is still unmatched in aoe efficiency and dmg output. When I face a mob pack of 6 or 8 I like being a GWF instead of a TR.
I agree that they are defenders in 4e, but this is not 4e and the description given by Cryptic (as highlighted above) does not agree to this statement (like I said, they certainly don't act as defenders)
When did you played GWF? And what lv if i may ask?
And... did you ever played CW?
Old "Blood and Sand: Unchained" quest
Played more than 100 000 times!
> TRY IT NOW!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ecy4o6JqLc
Few days ago, lv60. I definitely felt the nerf but minions were still going down fast in the zones I played.
My main is/will be a CW. But I don't think CW is a real aoe class.
Maybe they are planning for the Barbarian class to be the big, two handed damage dealer (here's hopeing
I was playing alfa couple days ago too. Lv 60.
And my feelings about the class are tottally opposite to yours.
I am comparing this class to any other (lv50, cant say about lv 60 becouse of NDA), and - in my opinion - this is weakest class on the table right now.
Worst change for me is nerfing Sure Strike to single-target. GWF is now forced to use slow, boring, clumsy at-wills.
Cant say much becouse of NDA, but in BW3 i loved GWF, now i just hate his playstyle (BW4).
Old "Blood and Sand: Unchained" quest
Played more than 100 000 times!
> TRY IT NOW!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ecy4o6JqLc
I went on killing several mob packs with the green cleric companion in the last zone. I found only the packs with the huge spider and such a bit challenging. And I always was around 75% hp between pulls with a low level of potion use.
i will not argue, but looks like you were testing before nerf.
Old "Blood and Sand: Unchained" quest
Played more than 100 000 times!
> TRY IT NOW!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ecy4o6JqLc
Nerf to Sure Strike's aoe dmg is a horrible nerf. If you must make it a single target strike, needs to be a significant single target dmg boost to make it an viable option.
At lvl 35 I seem to have decent amount of Determination to use my shift skill, but that's only because I was soloing and stuff was hitting me lots filling up the bar quickly. Would hate to see what happens in a party setting.
Combined with all the significant nerfs to all the feats as mentioned by the OP, it's a pretty big dmg nerf. Will try and get a party sometime this weekend to test it more.
They nerfed the Rogue too.....
Please...
Only 1 thing was changed: lurker assault.
Now it is little bit harder to keep perma-stealth in combat. But this "nerf" is barely noticeable.
Old "Blood and Sand: Unchained" quest
Played more than 100 000 times!
> TRY IT NOW!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ecy4o6JqLc