well lets see in the time it would take to lift and swing a longsword a rogue could stab about 10 times(swords arent as light as they look even one handed ones) and if that rogue was knowledgeable on placement of vital organs and arteries you could be on your way to the hospital before you even got to finish your move.
Realistically if you were using daggers you wouldnt block a sword, you would deflect roll out of the way and make use of the wasted effort, it would be nice if rogues could target body parts would add to the realism.
well lets see in the time it would take to lift and swing a longsword a rogue could stab about 10 times(swords arent as light as they look even one handed ones) and if that rogue was knowledgeable on placement of vital organs and arteries you could be on your way to the hospital before you even got to finish your move.
Realistically if you were using daggers you wouldnt block a sword, you would deflect roll out of the way and make use of the wasted effort, it would be nice if rogues could target body parts would add to the realism.
A traditional medieval long sword would only weigh between 2.5 to 3.5 lb, and even a big ol' hand-and-a-half sword was rarely more than 4.5 lb.* That is not at all difficult to swing with just as much efficiency as a dagger. The added reach and the centrifugal force gained from said reach make the long sword a vastly superior weapon to any knife.
Additionally, I want you to try something for me. Get a marker (or several, at your pleasure) and a piece of paper or whiteboard. Now try to strike the same spot repeatedly at full speed and with all the weight and power you can muster. Take pictures, make a video; show us your results.
The feats of dexterity and skill most people assume a human being can readily achieve are in truth mindbogglingly fantastic. Stabbing someone in the throat standing still the average person will still miss a lethal blow as often as land it. Make it a moving target and only a well trained soldier can land a neck wound of any kind with any regularity. Add armor and you're looking at a snowball's chance in hell unless you can set up some VERY favorable conditions (and no, being behind the person isn't favorable enough).
Practice martial arts for a few months and see what the human body can really do; you will be surprised at everything you can and cannot do, I assure you.
Well, I am confused. Are we talking about how deadly a Greater Weapon is compared to a dagger in real life or in game?
In game, like some previous posts said, GWF is a defender and focuses more on AOE DPS, while Rogue is a striker and focuses more on single target DPS. Your GW might not display floating damages as big as rogues, but you will be able to kill many more mobs at the same time than rogues.
In real life, it is much more complicated since there are so many factors, such as users' skills, experience, environment, and luck. You cannot just decide the winner because their weapons are sharper or bigger. Even the skills and experiences might not guarantee the win. The environment and luck also take important parts in real life fights. For example, let say you are a huge fighter, carry a huge weapon, and also have a lot of fighting experiences. On a weird day, there is a rain, thus, your weapon swing will be definitely slower. Worse, the ground turns into mud or becomes slippery, and you cannot have a good stance to swing your bad-*** weapon properly. Suddenly, your big-bad weapon turns into a burden rather than a deadly weapon. Your opponent is also a experienced fighter. He prefers a smaller weapon, like a dagger, which will not have much trouble to be used at its full potential under the rain. Thus, under the same environment, his small dagger would outshine your huge weapon. I am not saying the dagger guy will win though.
I figured it would be obvious but I will clarify; from the start, I knew my IRL arguments have no bearing to how the mechanics ought to be balanced. Gameplay is more important than such details. I only presented them because, hey it's kinda true.
The actual, serious point was that I feel Rogues ought to have less sustained damage. With the Stealth mechanic Rogues have INSANE burst potential. Offensively, Stealth grants bonus damage and other effects. Defensively, you can't be targeted. Using Stealth for these sudden bursts of effectiveness to neutralize high priority targets is what the Rogue is all about and what people ask for.
Reducing the damage a Rogue can do while standing in his opponent's face (ie Sly Flourish and other at-wills) takes nothing away from this play style, and you Rogues get to keep all your big exciting numbers and brutally quick kills. What such a nerf would do is reign in the Rogues' relative power compared to other classes in a small enough and easily enough controlled manner as to prevent making them under-powered. And all of this under the assumption that the Rogue would even need a nerf, because for all any of us know they might be extremely weak, but because nobody knows how to play yet not all of us can see it.
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roadkillaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited March 2013
right now the trickster rogue is the only dps class in the game so naturaly they will do higher dps than any other class.
when more dps classes are added then we can compare what dps class does the most dps.
until then it's just apples to oranges and makes no sense at all.
Rogues cant do what a GWF does and thats hit multipul targets all at once thats where the balance is. GF are tanks not fighters your role is to defend/tank not dish out damage. So the rogue being able to do high damage on only ONE target at a time is a good thing. you either take...
AoE high damage
Great SINGLE target DPS
Low DPS with survivability
Not all 3 lol
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nemesis788450Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Funny story. I was playing 2E way back as a LV4 Wizard with a staff (my first character). I was getting mobbed one time by some goblins from a surprise ambush. Our LV10 Pally came to help me out, hit and managed a whole 6 points (with +STR) on one of his attacks. Immediately after, I went to bash one with my staff and critted it for 8 points. I learned early that some RPGs (like D&D) just don't handle damage realistically. But it is what it is, and we didn't try to change the rules because this is what we all grew up with.
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savadiousMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
...I don't think you will understand why they are different because you are imagining reality through the filter of video game and movie combat.....
Actually it was pen and paper and focusing on PROFICIENCIES !
Is the user PROFICIENT in the use of a given weapon...
ok now for your Movie example (with printed origins).
1. Give Robin Hood a bow and arrow and ask him to remove an apple off the head of a target 20 yards away.... DONE !
2. Give Robin Hood the legendary Mjolnir and ask him to remove that same apple.... FAILED !
You need to have PROFICIENCY (skill to use a given weapon effectively) or you will suffer a PENALTY using such a weapon.
This is what the others were hinting at with speed (and slowness of larger weapons)
Imagine a dagger user.. small... agile... waif... the size of an average toddler.
This waif can handle a set of daggers like Zooman handles a switchblade !
FAST AND NIMBLE... stick and move.... float like a feather and sting liek blah blah blah...
Now... lets hand that 97 lb (44 kilo) "Rogue" a greatsword that itself weighs in at almost HALF THE WEIGHT OF THE WIELDER ... hmmm...
TO make it simpler to understand... try fighting with a fully loaded sandbag... (yes.. USE THE SAND BAG AS A WEAPON) you will be VERY SLOW, predictable and perhaps even fall. You are suffering from a lack of PROFICIENCY with the sandbag ! You are also suffering from "to hit" penalties as well as movement penalties...
These things we are mentioning to you do not come from movies.... or games.... they come from what created this game.... and countless others.... PEN AND PAPER....
ok ok.. my last shot.... from an FPS lovers POV (not me... my kid) A trained military sniper.... takes out a target with 1 shot... from hundreds of yards away...
If I give that weapon to my toddler... will he be just as deadly from hundreds of yards away... with one bullet?
PROFICIENCY... he has none... (AKA "not usable by your class" would be written all over the weapon IRL) and has so many penalties stacked against him that HE WILL FAIL...
Give that toddler a greatsword... will he be a threat.... Probably only to himself as he will be slow to react and not PROFICIENT in the use of that weapon that throws him off balance merely lifting it (He could use some STR potions... but I forbid those things in my house after what happened to Sir. Lance at Arms) !
Train him to use throwing stars, throwing knives and come back 2 years later.... hand him the same sword AND HE WILL FAIL.... Give him a handful of throwing knives... and YOU BETTER START RUNNING !!!!
NOTE: It has been pointed out that my earlier logic was hard to follow... for some.... +1 INT checks here buddy.... please do not blame me for botched rolls on your saves... it was after all.. written in common...
Imagine a dagger user.. small... agile... waif... the size of an average toddler.
This waif can handle a set of daggers like Zooman handles a switchblade !
FAST AND NIMBLE... stick and move.... float like a feather and sting liek blah blah blah...
Now... lets hand that 97 lb (44 kilo) "Rogue" a greatsword that itself weighs in at almost HALF THE WEIGHT OF THE WIELDER ... hmmm...
le sigh...
a Rogue the size of a toddler??? since when does the average toddler weigh 97 lbs?
a greatsword that weighs 46 lbs??? really??? xD
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jkap92Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited March 2013
GWF does moer AOE dps than trickster rogue, but the reality is that single target DPS is and always will be more important than AOE dps in MMOs. Trickster rogue is just a better class than GWF having played both to level 20+ rogue is infinitely faster, and infinitely easier. The stealth mechanic makes the class incredibly survivable, even moreso than the GWF despite the difference in armor. Rogue's single target damage is so much higher than GWF that its just way better. GWF may kill packs of 3+ mobs slightly faster than rogue, but only slightly faster, and rogues can kill bosses and single mobs WAY faster than a GWF can and with more survivability.
I t is the best class int he game right now hands down.
GWF's shouldn't do more damage just because they have a bigger weapon. This isn't real life its a video game. That said, the game should be balanced and currently rogues are just better than GWFs in virtually every situation. GWF shouldn't do as much single target DPS as a rogue due to the advantage GWF has in AOE, but the difference is currently too large.
Part of turning yourself invisible is using the PROPER TOOLS !
Lightweight armor... (thus the class restrictions)
Lightweight agile nimble yet deadly weaponry...
etc...
trojan horse type of thinking....
ok.. just think "PROPER TOOLS" again...
and ask yourself...
If you wanted to feed 30 people at a party with 1 loaf of bread and a handful of fruit.
Are you better off slicing the fruit with a little paring knife to make many accurate slices to set on top of each slice of bread. . . Or would a more powerful +3 club of ogre power SMASH THE FRUIT TO A MILLION PIECES AND FEED MORE PEOPLE ! :cool:
A word popped up ... "ACCURACY"
small dagger.... accuracy.... critical hits etc... I will not get into the gory details but its the "tools of the trade"...
ok to beat a dead horse...
big sword cuts bigger than a small scalpel...
will a surgeon use a 2 handed sword to more easily perform open heart surgery ? Hmmmm now were getting somewhere...
*This post be a joke post.*
Well, big cut = more damage.
More damage = what we want. *PETITION FOR ROGUES TO USE TWO HANDED SWORD! /joke*
Aye, armor has to be lightweight for a rogue.
But everyone knows all characters have a magical bag of holding.
What's more effective? Stabbing a guy with a pencil? or stabbing a guy with a Samurai sword? (Draw speed will be about the same due to the magical bag of holding. Power will probably be exponentially increased for the Samurai sword as it goes from weighing nearly nothing to it's full mass.) /joke.
& smashing the fruit obviously be the better solution. Now you has a million fruit pieces + Entertainment for 30 people. Then they can all go out & buy some noms at a fancy restaurant now that the fruit is out of the way.
>:3
Now a word popped up ... "Power"
Large sword....powerful....critical hits etc ... Me will go into the gory details but a small dagger is not much of an Assassin's tool of the trade.
Traditional assassin would strangle, bludgeon, or smother their targets (Heck of a lot easier to conceal a necklace, walking cane, or pillows) more than they would stab them (Kind of hard to explain away an ornate dagger if caught.) & poisons be more preferred. (& yes me am just playing around by mirroring your story.)
Also in reality daggers make for terrible weapons. If the enemy has armor in real life, they'll be nigh invulnerable to your dinky knife. (which would be more likely to break or get caught if used against an armored foe).
You say accuracy, but in that case a bow or spear would make much, much more sense.
Also surgeons routinely use something a lot more powerful than a dinky scalpel to make open heart surgery easier. Tis called an electric saw. http://www.de-soutter.com/ProdDetail.aspx?ID=183
Followed by a Finochietto retractor & aye one of me professors was a Cardiothoracic surgeon.
A dinky scalpel has a ton of trouble going through ribs for open heart surgery.
Before I point anything out - this is a fantasy game.
~~~~
By lore, you can say that rogue is easily able to slip to the shadowfell and when comes out of the shadow, the dagger is the weapon of choice for its speed.
Also because dagger is more accurate to handle - just behind needle - so it can find vital points more easily.
~~~~
Secondly, GWF is a defender not an assassin. When he strikes, it is used as a smash to keep opponents away. Due to defense the GWF strikes less and defends more.
If it was a barbarian, he would do more damage with battle cries risking his head with zero defense like rogue.
~~~~
Hence rogue as any striker like barbarian or sorcerer - does more damage than wizard(controller) or fighter(defender) or anyone but striker.
He isn't a defender though, he is a striker. Plus with rogue's roll, he actually tends to die quicker than a rogue. The role is supposed to be for AOE damage...the problem is, AOE damage seems pointless. The only thing to AOE are weak enemies which drop so quick with targeted melee attacks that AOE doesn't serve any real purpose.
Let's pretend like my account name isn't just a random string of characters I got by punching my keyboard.
Lets all calm down and cast spells together. Everyone knows the pen is mightier than the sword.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] [ +2 Lipstick of Power ] I draw my own signature/avatar when I am bored.
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jasco9Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited March 2013
The dagger does not hit harder, but it can do more damage than a greatsword in certain situations.
Many factors define how and when the situation can occur, but daggers do less base damage (1d4 was how they used to hit, 2d6 for greatswords.) Even then, it was theoretically possible for a dagger to out damage a greatsword on a roll of 4 (max) and if a greatsword rolled a 2 (min.) This is obviously a very low probability, but possible.
Many people are being subjected to the green-eyed monster when the rogue damage visually stacks more quickly than some others.
Let trickster rogues have their big numbers against single targets, that is their role in the current context of the game.
Be happy with how the character that you have chosen to represent yourself in-game, performs the tasks they need to. If you are not happy, change to another class that will get you closer to your happy place.
Let trickster rogues have their big numbers against single targets, that is their role in the current context of the game.
Yeah. When I'm playing as a TR, I'm moving around picking off targets, but when I'm a GWF I'm positioning myself to hit as many mobs as possible. In the time it takes to take out 3 enemies with a TR, I've taken out twice as many with a GWF.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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philbe63Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
It's a matter of perspective.
Half-orc with a dagger vs a halfling with a two handed sword. Sized to their proportions..... I think the damage similarity is fair
"A True Friend Stabs You in the Front."
~Oscar Wilde~
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"Look at what the Great Weapon Fighter can do, he's so OP!"
~Andy Velasquez~
The dagger does not hit harder, but it can do more damage than a greatsword in certain situations.
Many factors define how and when the situation can occur, but daggers do less base damage (1d4 was how they used to hit, 2d6 for greatswords.) Even then, it was theoretically possible for a dagger to out damage a greatsword on a roll of 4 (max) and if a greatsword rolled a 2 (min.) This is obviously a very low probability, but possible.
Many people are being subjected to the green-eyed monster when the rogue damage visually stacks more quickly than some others.
Let trickster rogues have their big numbers against single targets, that is their role in the current context of the game.
Be happy with how the character that you have chosen to represent yourself in-game, performs the tasks they need to. If you are not happy, change to another class that will get you closer to your happy place.
-Jasc
I'm not saying you're wrong in anything, but a couple points:
1. I'm not suggesting Rogues can't have big numbers against single targets; in fact I specifically stated that with my suggested debuff they would still have the biggest single-target damage by a long shot with their encounter abilities. All I'm saying is their at-will attacks' power could be reeled back so they can't go toe-to-toe with a Fighter, and instead must hit-and-run and use, oh I don't know, stealth and misdirection perhaps?
2. I'm gonna main as a Cleric, and I'm not complaining about it at all. Apart from the aggro bug I'm in a very happy place with my DC.
Actually. You cant say hitting harder = greater damage. A properly placed dagger into your spleen, spine, or pancreas will do WAY more damage to your body then getting wacked and knocked aside by someone with a big assed sword.
Granted getting cut in half kills you faster then a dagger in the liver. But those of you who know alot about physics know that your going to have to be one hell of a strong person with one hell of a sharp sword to cut someone in half. A Katana will cut you in half much easier then a sword with a 8 to 10 foot long blade.
Aye, it wouldn't be too hard to cleave someone in half even with a slightly dull sword. (Particularly if they chose the gut region where the only major obstacle be the spine & muscles.)
But technically he be right about the 2nd part.
A katana be designed to cut through targets with notable focus on the sharp blade.
The greatsword will cleave through things with notable focus on mass.
(Check our the ice & armor cutting in your 2nd video)
So the Katana will has a bit of an easier time cutting through you. (Sharper edge = "slides" through your insides & less flexing = energy be more focused through the path of the slice especially if bones are encountered on the way through.)
Regardless, if you be unarmored and going up against a Katana and Greatsword, the Greatsword's range will probably get you killed first. (Remember, they can thrust with either weapons & me assume you don't go about your daily life wearing a suit of armor.)
But back on topic, a dagger be significantly inferior to either katanas or greatswords.
Lack of range, power, and piercing ability as well. (As it be used with one hand, be light, etc.)
Honestly they were never much of a battle weapon in any era & used more on stationary unaware targets...like the beef at a butcher shop, a rope, or a sleeping person. (which honestly would be easy to kill with darn near any weapon...even a pillow.)
& we kind of established that pretty much all enemies we fight in Neverwinter is armored. (They all has defense derp, troll skin, armor, etc.)
So Rogues knife based attacks should be nigh useless if it were realistic while the poisons should do significant damage.
But why does a blast of SUPERNATURAL HOLY ENERGY directly from a GOD not instantly kill everything it smites? Me mean it can obviously mend injuries instantly yet it can't rend flesh just as easily?
Heck just giving the enemy Ultra Cancer from overhealing should do the trick. (or at least instantly disable them) /joke
I know that it sucks to no longer get gear to sell from the Dungeon Delve chest but it was truly overpowered.
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jackietran2493Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 3Arc User
edited April 2013
[QUOTE=rkv13;1654391All I'm saying is their at-will attacks' power could be reeled back so they can't go toe-to-toe with a Fighter, and instead must hit-and-run and use, oh I don't know, stealth and misdirection perhaps?
[/url][/QUOTE]
You know that Rogue's stealth bar doesn't increase in combat and get reduced when gen hit right? So how are we supposed to hit-and-run and use stealth? Rogue is MELEE. What's wrong with a melee standing fighting against another melee?
Can anyone else confirm this? Cuz I never heard of that and nobody else mentioned it all this time.
To be more accurate, the stealth bar recharge when you don't get hit but take like 5-7 seconds to recharge fully. If you get hit, your stealth bar is reduced.
Comments
Realistically if you were using daggers you wouldnt block a sword, you would deflect roll out of the way and make use of the wasted effort, it would be nice if rogues could target body parts would add to the realism.
A traditional medieval long sword would only weigh between 2.5 to 3.5 lb, and even a big ol' hand-and-a-half sword was rarely more than 4.5 lb.* That is not at all difficult to swing with just as much efficiency as a dagger. The added reach and the centrifugal force gained from said reach make the long sword a vastly superior weapon to any knife.
Additionally, I want you to try something for me. Get a marker (or several, at your pleasure) and a piece of paper or whiteboard. Now try to strike the same spot repeatedly at full speed and with all the weight and power you can muster. Take pictures, make a video; show us your results.
The feats of dexterity and skill most people assume a human being can readily achieve are in truth mindbogglingly fantastic. Stabbing someone in the throat standing still the average person will still miss a lethal blow as often as land it. Make it a moving target and only a well trained soldier can land a neck wound of any kind with any regularity. Add armor and you're looking at a snowball's chance in hell unless you can set up some VERY favorable conditions (and no, being behind the person isn't favorable enough).
Practice martial arts for a few months and see what the human body can really do; you will be surprised at everything you can and cannot do, I assure you.
*http://thearma.org/essays/weights.htm
In game, like some previous posts said, GWF is a defender and focuses more on AOE DPS, while Rogue is a striker and focuses more on single target DPS. Your GW might not display floating damages as big as rogues, but you will be able to kill many more mobs at the same time than rogues.
In real life, it is much more complicated since there are so many factors, such as users' skills, experience, environment, and luck. You cannot just decide the winner because their weapons are sharper or bigger. Even the skills and experiences might not guarantee the win. The environment and luck also take important parts in real life fights. For example, let say you are a huge fighter, carry a huge weapon, and also have a lot of fighting experiences. On a weird day, there is a rain, thus, your weapon swing will be definitely slower. Worse, the ground turns into mud or becomes slippery, and you cannot have a good stance to swing your bad-*** weapon properly. Suddenly, your big-bad weapon turns into a burden rather than a deadly weapon. Your opponent is also a experienced fighter. He prefers a smaller weapon, like a dagger, which will not have much trouble to be used at its full potential under the rain. Thus, under the same environment, his small dagger would outshine your huge weapon. I am not saying the dagger guy will win though.
The actual, serious point was that I feel Rogues ought to have less sustained damage. With the Stealth mechanic Rogues have INSANE burst potential. Offensively, Stealth grants bonus damage and other effects. Defensively, you can't be targeted. Using Stealth for these sudden bursts of effectiveness to neutralize high priority targets is what the Rogue is all about and what people ask for.
Reducing the damage a Rogue can do while standing in his opponent's face (ie Sly Flourish and other at-wills) takes nothing away from this play style, and you Rogues get to keep all your big exciting numbers and brutally quick kills. What such a nerf would do is reign in the Rogues' relative power compared to other classes in a small enough and easily enough controlled manner as to prevent making them under-powered. And all of this under the assumption that the Rogue would even need a nerf, because for all any of us know they might be extremely weak, but because nobody knows how to play yet not all of us can see it.
when more dps classes are added then we can compare what dps class does the most dps.
until then it's just apples to oranges and makes no sense at all.
AoE high damage
Great SINGLE target DPS
Low DPS with survivability
Not all 3 lol
Actually it was pen and paper and focusing on PROFICIENCIES !
Is the user PROFICIENT in the use of a given weapon...
ok now for your Movie example (with printed origins).
1. Give Robin Hood a bow and arrow and ask him to remove an apple off the head of a target 20 yards away.... DONE !
2. Give Robin Hood the legendary Mjolnir and ask him to remove that same apple.... FAILED !
You need to have PROFICIENCY (skill to use a given weapon effectively) or you will suffer a PENALTY using such a weapon.
This is what the others were hinting at with speed (and slowness of larger weapons)
Imagine a dagger user.. small... agile... waif... the size of an average toddler.
This waif can handle a set of daggers like Zooman handles a switchblade !
FAST AND NIMBLE... stick and move.... float like a feather and sting liek blah blah blah...
Now... lets hand that 97 lb (44 kilo) "Rogue" a greatsword that itself weighs in at almost HALF THE WEIGHT OF THE WIELDER ... hmmm...
TO make it simpler to understand... try fighting with a fully loaded sandbag... (yes.. USE THE SAND BAG AS A WEAPON) you will be VERY SLOW, predictable and perhaps even fall. You are suffering from a lack of PROFICIENCY with the sandbag ! You are also suffering from "to hit" penalties as well as movement penalties...
These things we are mentioning to you do not come from movies.... or games.... they come from what created this game.... and countless others.... PEN AND PAPER....
ok ok.. my last shot.... from an FPS lovers POV (not me... my kid)
A trained military sniper.... takes out a target with 1 shot... from hundreds of yards away...
If I give that weapon to my toddler... will he be just as deadly from hundreds of yards away... with one bullet?
PROFICIENCY... he has none... (AKA "not usable by your class" would be written all over the weapon IRL) and has so many penalties stacked against him that HE WILL FAIL...
Give that toddler a greatsword... will he be a threat.... Probably only to himself as he will be slow to react and not PROFICIENT in the use of that weapon that throws him off balance merely lifting it (He could use some STR potions... but I forbid those things in my house after what happened to Sir. Lance at Arms) !
Train him to use throwing stars, throwing knives and come back 2 years later.... hand him the same sword AND HE WILL FAIL.... Give him a handful of throwing knives... and YOU BETTER START RUNNING !!!!
NOTE: It has been pointed out that my earlier logic was hard to follow... for some.... +1 INT checks here buddy.... please do not blame me for botched rolls on your saves... it was after all.. written in common...
WAIT !!!!
Are you saying.... this... is just a game !!??
CAN ANYONE CONFIRM THAT ?
brb... I will check it out on snopes
le sigh...
a Rogue the size of a toddler??? since when does the average toddler weigh 97 lbs?
a greatsword that weighs 46 lbs??? really??? xD
I t is the best class int he game right now hands down.
GWF's shouldn't do more damage just because they have a bigger weapon. This isn't real life its a video game. That said, the game should be balanced and currently rogues are just better than GWFs in virtually every situation. GWF shouldn't do as much single target DPS as a rogue due to the advantage GWF has in AOE, but the difference is currently too large.
Exactly. Especially in PvP.
Isn't that usually how it goes between dps'ers with big weapons vs dps'ers with fast small ones?
Think harder
*This post be a joke post.*
Well, big cut = more damage.
More damage = what we want. *PETITION FOR ROGUES TO USE TWO HANDED SWORD! /joke*
Aye, armor has to be lightweight for a rogue.
But everyone knows all characters have a magical bag of holding.
What's more effective? Stabbing a guy with a pencil? or stabbing a guy with a Samurai sword? (Draw speed will be about the same due to the magical bag of holding. Power will probably be exponentially increased for the Samurai sword as it goes from weighing nearly nothing to it's full mass.) /joke.
& smashing the fruit obviously be the better solution. Now you has a million fruit pieces + Entertainment for 30 people. Then they can all go out & buy some noms at a fancy restaurant now that the fruit is out of the way.
>:3
Now a word popped up ... "Power"
Large sword....powerful....critical hits etc ... Me will go into the gory details but a small dagger is not much of an Assassin's tool of the trade.
Traditional assassin would strangle, bludgeon, or smother their targets (Heck of a lot easier to conceal a necklace, walking cane, or pillows) more than they would stab them (Kind of hard to explain away an ornate dagger if caught.) & poisons be more preferred. (& yes me am just playing around by mirroring your story.)
Also in reality daggers make for terrible weapons. If the enemy has armor in real life, they'll be nigh invulnerable to your dinky knife. (which would be more likely to break or get caught if used against an armored foe).
You say accuracy, but in that case a bow or spear would make much, much more sense.
Also surgeons routinely use something a lot more powerful than a dinky scalpel to make open heart surgery easier. Tis called an electric saw. http://www.de-soutter.com/ProdDetail.aspx?ID=183
Followed by a Finochietto retractor & aye one of me professors was a Cardiothoracic surgeon.
A dinky scalpel has a ton of trouble going through ribs for open heart surgery.
He isn't a defender though, he is a striker. Plus with rogue's roll, he actually tends to die quicker than a rogue. The role is supposed to be for AOE damage...the problem is, AOE damage seems pointless. The only thing to AOE are weak enemies which drop so quick with targeted melee attacks that AOE doesn't serve any real purpose.
[ +2 Lipstick of Power ]
I draw my own signature/avatar when I am bored.
Many factors define how and when the situation can occur, but daggers do less base damage (1d4 was how they used to hit, 2d6 for greatswords.) Even then, it was theoretically possible for a dagger to out damage a greatsword on a roll of 4 (max) and if a greatsword rolled a 2 (min.) This is obviously a very low probability, but possible.
Many people are being subjected to the green-eyed monster when the rogue damage visually stacks more quickly than some others.
Let trickster rogues have their big numbers against single targets, that is their role in the current context of the game.
Be happy with how the character that you have chosen to represent yourself in-game, performs the tasks they need to. If you are not happy, change to another class that will get you closer to your happy place.
-Jasc
Yeah. When I'm playing as a TR, I'm moving around picking off targets, but when I'm a GWF I'm positioning myself to hit as many mobs as possible. In the time it takes to take out 3 enemies with a TR, I've taken out twice as many with a GWF.
Half-orc with a dagger vs a halfling with a two handed sword. Sized to their proportions..... I think the damage similarity is fair
~Oscar Wilde~
"Look at what the Great Weapon Fighter can do, he's so OP!"
~Andy Velasquez~
I'm not saying you're wrong in anything, but a couple points:
1. I'm not suggesting Rogues can't have big numbers against single targets; in fact I specifically stated that with my suggested debuff they would still have the biggest single-target damage by a long shot with their encounter abilities. All I'm saying is their at-will attacks' power could be reeled back so they can't go toe-to-toe with a Fighter, and instead must hit-and-run and use, oh I don't know, stealth and misdirection perhaps?
2. I'm gonna main as a Cleric, and I'm not complaining about it at all. Apart from the aggro bug I'm in a very happy place with my DC.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58NVoTocUOk
Aye, it wouldn't be too hard to cleave someone in half even with a slightly dull sword. (Particularly if they chose the gut region where the only major obstacle be the spine & muscles.)
But technically he be right about the 2nd part.
A katana be designed to cut through targets with notable focus on the sharp blade.
The greatsword will cleave through things with notable focus on mass.
(Check our the ice & armor cutting in your 2nd video)
So the Katana will has a bit of an easier time cutting through you. (Sharper edge = "slides" through your insides & less flexing = energy be more focused through the path of the slice especially if bones are encountered on the way through.)
Regardless, if you be unarmored and going up against a Katana and Greatsword, the Greatsword's range will probably get you killed first. (Remember, they can thrust with either weapons & me assume you don't go about your daily life wearing a suit of armor.)
But back on topic, a dagger be significantly inferior to either katanas or greatswords.
Lack of range, power, and piercing ability as well. (As it be used with one hand, be light, etc.)
Honestly they were never much of a battle weapon in any era & used more on stationary unaware targets...like the beef at a butcher shop, a rope, or a sleeping person. (which honestly would be easy to kill with darn near any weapon...even a pillow.)
& we kind of established that pretty much all enemies we fight in Neverwinter is armored. (They all has defense derp, troll skin, armor, etc.)
So Rogues knife based attacks should be nigh useless if it were realistic while the poisons should do significant damage.
But why does a blast of SUPERNATURAL HOLY ENERGY directly from a GOD not instantly kill everything it smites? Me mean it can obviously mend injuries instantly yet it can't rend flesh just as easily?
Heck just giving the enemy Ultra Cancer from overhealing should do the trick. (or at least instantly disable them) /joke
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You know that Rogue's stealth bar doesn't increase in combat and get reduced when gen hit right? So how are we supposed to hit-and-run and use stealth? Rogue is MELEE. What's wrong with a melee standing fighting against another melee?
Can anyone else confirm this? Cuz I never heard of that and nobody else mentioned it all this time.
To be more accurate, the stealth bar recharge when you don't get hit but take like 5-7 seconds to recharge fully. If you get hit, your stealth bar is reduced.