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I would favor a 6 mo release delay instead of an unpolished product.
oldskylancer
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Silverstars Posts: 0 Arc User
If you Cryptic needs more time, and Perfect World is willing to give it to them, I don't see any reason to stave off release until you guys are ready and we think you're ready. I'd still like to see and ongoing open beta during the delay period. This could be a great game but you've got to shake off the old way of thinking about MMO's. This ain't WOW. You've got a huge fanbase that loves the reference material. Listen to them and make changes accordingly. you can still offer monetization just recredit the account at full release. That way we the targeted gamer can give you constructive feedback, do actual real world testing, and you don't have to sweat an arbitrary deadline.
Bottom line we want you to succeed and we're willing to help.
Bottom line we want you to succeed and we're willing to help.
Orcus bane, Knight-wanderer of the Sword Coast
Post edited by oldskylancer on
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But yeah we all here want it to succeed and will do our best to make it happen.
Also, keep in mind that no MMORPG has been released that was not called "unfinished" by some portion of their gaming community.
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No MMO has ever been released in a "finished" state, and none ever will. Ultima Online released in 1997, and has a new large-scale "polish" patch currently being tested, that hit the test server last Friday.
Asking for a six month delay makes sense, if in fact the developers and their customers don't feel the game is ready, but it doesn't seem plausible from a financial standpoint. At this juncture, I'm sure it's being highly "encouraged" to get the product out the door, and into the hands of people who are willing to fork over the cash for it.
In the case of persistent games like MMOs that are technically never truly "Finished", an open beta is just a released game but buggier.
As much as I agree with you about a delay in release, I totally doubt it will happen.
I agree but want to add, with less features too
What do you think needs to be polished?
I can only comment on the content I played during the first beta weekend, but the game is fairly polished. From a technical standpoint, both the client and server were solid. I had no latency issues or disconnections, nor any crashes or graphical issues. So, at the very least, the game is playable.
It is more a question of expanding what is there, rather than fixing what is there. For example, there seems to be a fair amount of missing audio (voiceovers, music, etc.) and missing item graphics. This is not surprising as this is often some of the last content to be added as development progresses.
Here's what I would consider "unpolished":
1. Foundry is not ready, or crashes a lot and is unstable
2. Server(s) can't handle traffic making for frequent delays, queues and crashes.
3. There isn't even a Wizard class ready at launch.
4. There's only a small handful of armor looks and weapon types, like the kind of pittance we saw last beta.
Having said all that, I am very confident, the game will be quite polished. Seems like the wizard is ready to roll next week and I've heard of no major complaints about lag yet and I'm sure the Foundry will open up in the last closed beta weekend.
I think we'll see a launch in early June and it will be a relatively stable and successful launch.
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Difficulty level. Game is far to easy. Prefer they start it out crazy hard instead of hitting level 30 in 9 hours, with zero deaths. AI needs a massive overhaul. Standard monsters need to be buffed so as that 1 is challenging, 2 is difficult, 3 requires skill, 4+ requires group (I don't mean companions as group members I mean PC's. This is a MMORPG after all not a single player game).
Choice. Limited character play style choice. Melee Cleric, Ranger with a bow, Bard, Battle Wizard, Swordmage, etc... I'm kind of lucky that the Guardian build is my preferred play style. But there are severe limitations on character creation and development.
Guild Content. I haven't seen anything that justifies the need for guilds. I mean content within the game not player created contexts. I would love that MMO's were developed with guilds as a focal point instead as an after thought. I do love big raids but this isn't what I mean. I mean things in the game that when completed as a guild it feels rewarding and in turn rewarded. Not personally rewarded but as a guild rewarded.
PvP. Zero information released on it that I've seen. We know it does exist to some extent. As there are in game purchasables with PvP tokens and 20 v 20 Event reminders in the calendar. But nothing beyond that.
That would be my top things that require large amounts of time to fix and should be part of the game before launch. To clarify by launch I mean when the head-start program kicks in, which would be open beta.
Totally agree that the server and client seemed quite stable and playable, (180+ms) . A larger player base and PvP would probably be a more accurate test for server stability though. Bring on BWE2!
Starting out crazy hard is not a good idea for an MMO. There needs to be a difficulty curve, or new players will just give up. Getting it right is tricky, of course, and something they should definitely polish. Doesn't seem like something they'd need an extra 6 months for, though.
This is all "more stuff", not "polish", to me. I don't think they should delay for any of this.
It still applies. Want proof? STO has been free-to-play about as long as it was sub-based, and there's still no real Klingon faction to speak of, and a third faction is coming.
Klingons will never be finished.
STO was a sub game for about 2 years. It has been F2P for about a year. Whether Klingons will be finished is based on the May update and the opinion of the players. My opinion is that it will be complete if it has as much mission content as the Feds had at launch. In an MMO, no faction can ever be truly finished. There is rumor that the May Update will include a third faction, but I seriously doubt it.
Guess we agree to disagree. To me the Choices, Guild Content, and PvP are essential elements that greatly impact on the longevity of the game. Yes some of the character builds might be considered "stuff" but others are intrinsic to D&D and MMO's in general. I mean no bows at launch (Open Beta).
As for difficulty that's what the beginning tutorial zones are for. The tutorial zone shouldn't extend to max level. I would love to see statistics on how many people leave an MMO because it's to hard compared to how many leave because its to easy/not challenging/to buggy/already completed all content! Least hopefully the Foundry will address the lack of content issue.
Beta is a time for testing. I say make it difficult as hell in the Beta then Carebear it down to a happy medium.
Longevity, perhaps, but that's more about having enough content for people to keep playing the game, which can be added later, not getting them invested at launch. I think PWE would lose more by the delay than they'd gain from what you're suggesting.
I couldn't care less about guild content and PvP, but I do want more character build choices, too. However, I don't think it's fair to characterize the current state as lacking "polish". The options we do have appear to have quite a high degree of polish.
To many MMO's release to early and pay the price. I suspect they would lose more potential income and greater damage done to their brand by releasing an incomplete product (Open Beta). People have waited 18months another 3-6months wouldn't kill them to have a more polished game then the state it currently is in.
Whether you care about it or not doesn't take away from the fact that without this option they lose even more potential income.
18 months?? You're counts off. It's been a few years. Atari sold cryptic in May of 2011 and the game was scheduled to be released that year, so they'd been working on it already. What they've been working on for this long I have no idea, because nothing jumps out as spectacular.
How is my count off? Even if they released it in May 2011 that's 22 months ago. I was going by an August release date as mentioned in the Wiki
It is not a AAA title, it has very limited (in the scope of most recent MMOs) budget and therefor man power. Man power equates to time. Most MMOs are in development for around 3 years, we don't even hear about most of them until they have been in development for about a year. I personally know of an MMO that is not to be named that has been in development for 14 months based on a popular IP that there is no buzz about. The only reason I know about it is because I am friends with one of the hackers and good beer and scotch makes for waggly lips.
It's been 18 months since it was supposed to be released. Those of us that were waiting a year + for the original release date, have been waiting much longer than 18 months.
Long Betas though...can KILL games. You burn out your core players since they all get in the beta, and then when the game goes live, they loose all their characters. Game goes live and it's usually months before any really new content is added, and your core group of players are all bored to tears. I was in the Path of Exile beta and resisted playing too much to avoid that exact thing. I've also restricted myself to only playing up to the low 20's (instead of up to 30) in this beta (made alternative characters and tested for bugs etc in the early content instead)...just to avoid burn out.
Long betas are good for finding bugs and polishing a game, but there are other ways to accomplish the same thing.
Test the content and core classes you have, and release the game. If you can only test the content to level 30, then release the game with a temporary level 30 cap while the rest of the content is tested and polished, then up the cap a month later. It lets players try out the different classes and play in the game, and lets your beta testers keep their characters even after the cap is raised (since it's no longer in beta, you don't have to do a character wipe).
Some game, is better then no game. Ongoing beta while a game is live, is better then a closed beta...which is better then an open beta (closed having a smaller burn out rate then open).
I have beta tested many games so I'm used to replaying content, checking for bugs etc. If that is your mindset when you go in, then your much less likely to burn out. Most players don't have that mindset when going into an open beta though, and many stop playing once their characters go poof when the beta is over.
I suggest releasing the game sometime in April if at all possible, even if there are still additions that need to be made in the future. It's important to keep interest in the game along with anticipation. Right now there are beta weekends to get everyone though March...but you can only have so many of those (before you hit burn out options again) even if you add a new class for each one.
If the game doesn't launch within a month of the March 28th beta weekend, I think it will be bad for the game as a whole.