ivanthehareMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 17Arc User
edited February 2013
I get the overwhelming feeling that this will only change if it PROVES to be unprofitable. And it probably will rake in a profit, and those saying it should change will be chalked up as freeloading whiners.
That's just the outcome I see. That being said, I am also of the camp that 2 is ridiculously low even for a lowly serf just starting their career as a hero in Neverwinter. Guess we'll see how it goes.
My opinion is based on some solid reasoning, yours is not. The very best that could be said for yours is it's just accepting status quo.
So judging from past games that this company has made, looking at their track record and predicting based on the financial model they have put forward what will happen is not solid reasoning? Ok I am out. No use talking to someone who has made up their mind using their own opinion as proof.
I would suggest they give players 3 or 4 character slots as standard - this lets them try more classes from the start of game, and all these characters will be going on the same account instead of being spread across multiple accounts. Then start pushing the various account-wide unlocks onto people (3 or 4 characters on account seems more worthwhile buying an account unlock for than does 2 characters). People seek a reasonable degree of bang for their buck.
Adding more races and classes will encourage people to keep buying character slots after this initial 3 or 4 that lets them try more of the basic classes of game. Then on top of this come the mounts, the extra bag space, appearance gear, and so on.
WHAT Is with you people and not listening to NOCS!! We had CrypticMapolis, Squez, and Craig! I asked about this, the answer was very simple, they wanted to see the reaction to that amount of character slots, they wanted to know how the community would respond, what the community thinks is more reasonable. We are the testers and they are listening. Please listen to the NOCS if you havent. (if you cant listen to the NOCS, I will be transcribing the second episode soon)
Deathssickle,
I watched the NOCS (it was great with alot of information) and in fact that is what motivated me to make this thread. They said they were looking into how many character slots we would start with, so I made a thread explaining why I think more would be better and some ways to make that work.
I'm not sure why there is arguing going on, I was just trying to get some conversation started on the subject, so the developers could see our opinions. I tried to show a way to have additional character slots, but still eventually sell them (limiting the character slots to level 20 until they are purchased) and I tried to point out why having more then 2 to start is a good idea and will probably make more money.
It's not a huge deal to me, but I think it will make the game more fun for everyone. What will be a nice advantage will be in the future when I need more slots when additional classes come out. I'd rather get a chance to try the classes before buying additional slots (not to mention it would be great to try the classes out before purchasing them either!!).
This thread was just meant to be a positive way to talk about character slots and let the developers know what we would like. I tried to also show how they could still make money while providing that. Any other thoughts on the issue would be great!
The arguing appears to be coming from people who think we are suggesting ways for the company to NOT make money...ie simplistic thinking of "take away one or two opportunities to buy xx item means money lost" rather than seeing how "encourage people to buy many other things by getting them invested into scenario = more dollars overall".
I would suggest they give players 3 or 4 character slots as standard - this lets them try more classes from the start of game, and all these characters will be going on the same account instead of being spread across multiple accounts. Then start pushing the various account-wide unlocks onto people (3 or 4 characters on account seems more worthwhile buying an account unlock for than does 2 characters). People seek a reasonable degree of bang for their buck.
Adding more races and classes will encourage people to keep buying character slots after this initial 3 or 4 that lets them try more of the basic classes of game. Then on top of this come the mounts, the extra bag space, appearance gear, and so on.
How many times do we have to tell you that this would directly impact their income? Every F2P MMO only offers two slots for a reason, and it isn't because they don't make money selling character slots.
How many times do we have to tell you that this would directly impact their income? Every F2P MMO only offers two slots for a reason, and it isn't because they don't make money selling character slots.
Simplistic thinking, as above.
Also, what games only offer two slots...I'm usually a subscriber of sub-based games, not a freebie player. Can you list? Guessing you're a bit of an expert on freebie games. If you list we might start seeing why these 2 slot games aren't popular or known about.
How many times do we have to tell you that this would directly impact their income? Every F2P MMO only offers two slots for a reason, and it isn't because they don't make money selling character slots.
Why would my suggestion of having 3 base character slots with 2 slots that only let you level up to 20, make them less money?
Yes, I guess 3 slots instead of 2 means players would need to buy 1 less character slot, so you might possibly make a bit less money if EVERYONE decided to stay at only 3 slots.
But by having 3 slots players can try out 3 of the 5 classes, and by having 2 slots with limited leveling, players can try all the initial classes and if they don't like one, even have room to purchase and try out a new class or two when it comes out.
I don't have any evidence (since it's impossible to do so without testing) but I'd be willing to bet you'd end up selling MORE character slots by giving players a taste (20 levels) then by making them buy a slot before they can do anything with it.
As an example though, I just played TERA online while DDO was down for 2 days. I tried a few classes, but to do so initially I had to delete my character every time (because it limits you to only two characters). Could I have bought more? Sure. Will I? No, because I wasn't enjoying myself much.
I might have decided to continue playing a few of them though if I hadn't deleted them already to try the others. Having only 2 character slots means it's much harder for players to find the class/character that they will like the most. Happy players, who are playing a class that fits them the best, are going to stay around and play longer, and they are going to spend more.
I have no clue how much character slots are going to be, but honestly....I doubt it's going to be more then $10 a pop, and if I enjoy NWO enough to play more then a month, then it's not going to matter to me much how much they cost. I do think it will have an effect on how many players the game ends up with though, which will have an impact on how well the game does.
I have no clue if TERA gets better, and I will probably never have a clue, because I got burnt out on the "fairly" boring early game just trying out the different classes. I could have just stuck with one, but I generally like to try them all and then choose the class I enjoy the most to focus on. TERA just didn't do it for me, and probably wouldn't have even with enough character slots to try every class....but the experience of having to delete my characters to try new classes stuck with me, and I can see people having to do that in NWO getting frustrated and leaving.
I watched the NOCS (it was great with alot of information) and in fact that is what motivated me to make this thread. They said they were looking into how many character slots we would start with, so I made a thread explaining why I think more would be better and some ways to make that work.
I'm not sure why there is arguing going on, I was just trying to get some conversation started on the subject, so the developers could see our opinions. I tried to show a way to have additional character slots, but still eventually sell them (limiting the character slots to level 20 until they are purchased) and I tried to point out why having more then 2 to start is a good idea and will probably make more money.
It's not a huge deal to me, but I think it will make the game more fun for everyone. What will be a nice advantage will be in the future when I need more slots when additional classes come out. I'd rather get a chance to try the classes before buying additional slots (not to mention it would be great to try the classes out before purchasing them either!!).
This thread was just meant to be a positive way to talk about character slots and let the developers know what we would like. I tried to also show how they could still make money while providing that. Any other thoughts on the issue would be great!
Im fine with good suggestions, but the arguments get crazy, and Im glad you listened to NOCS. I wish more would realize, this is beta and they are testing more than we know about. Our responses will make a difference, but Cryptic will need to make money, personally I find 5 to start reasonable.(I had D3 CE and only had about like 10 character slots in D3). so I think 5 is reasonable(plus with 5 you can make 1 of each starting class). I believe because more classes and races will be released I believe, that people will want more slots and Cryptic will sell them.(it pains me to delete characters I spend hours upon hours on). I could be wrong, but I wont argue this I just am giving some input
If you were willing to delete a character to begin with, you weren't having fun, so it wouldn't matter how many slots you gave. Even if you did get more slots, you'd still have to slog through the early game the exact same number of times, so saying you might enjoy the game more is really a strawman argument.
And there's no way giving people more character slots for free means that people would buy more character slots. Would you really buy something you already have enough of?
If you were willing to delete a character to begin with, you weren't having fun
That would not necessarily be true - lots of people will want to try several classes before deciding which one they want to play first. Forcing them to delete or make multiple accounts will be the cause of them turning away from the game in the first instance, or them never properly investing into any one account in the second - treating game as a pure freebie.
IAnd there's no way giving people more character slots for free means that people would buy more character slots. Would you really buy something you already have enough of?
In my case I'm suggesting switching focus from trying to get players to invest in game in first place (selling character slots), to allowing them to invest (by giving them several characters to play from start) then selling them other items once invested (account-wide unlocks - mounts/races/classes/access to stuff/bag space/etc).
It's this approach that will make more money. Many people won't even get to the invested in game stage with 2 slots, so won't be open to buying account unlocks. Better to get them to that stage from the very start.
wulfster42, it's best not to worry about certain people around here. There are maybe 3 or 4 users that are in every thread simply for the sake of devil's advocate, negative criticism, and/or trolling. They'll disagree with ANY topic of conversation simply for the spread of more negative outlook on the game (which makes me wonder if they even want to play it, and if not, why stay here). They don't offer anything new, don't want to help improve anything, and won't accept other points of view unless they put the devs in a malicious light. You've explained your system multiple times over, and I think it's a great idea that is beneficial in the long run. All you can do is trust that the people in charge see the thread's positive points, or get try and contact them directly.
If you ask me, this has become one of the saddest places in video game forums, even the mods don't comment much anymore. Good start for a foundry scenario.....
Im fine with good suggestions, but the arguments get crazy, and Im glad you listened to NOCS. I wish more would realize, this is beta and they are testing more than we know about. Our responses will make a difference, but Cryptic will need to make money, personally I find 5 to start reasonable.(I had D3 CE and only had about like 10 character slots in D3). so I think 5 is reasonable(plus with 5 you can make 1 of each starting class). I believe because more classes and races will be released I believe, that people will want more slots and Cryptic will sell them.(it pains me to delete characters I spend hours upon hours on). I could be wrong, but I wont argue this I just am giving some input
Thanks for the input:)
And yes, it was a great interview. I actually belong to Tyrs Paladium so it was really cool to hear Andre asking all the questions.
Yeah, ideas are exactly what I was hoping to get going in this thread. I'm fine with 5 character slots as well, but I was trying to set up a way to sorta give 5 character slots but still give them the ability to make money on the slots with the initial content.
I don't think there is much reason to have to characters of the same class, so if we had 5 character slots for everyone, then first...there would be no reason for anyone to buy additional ones, and second, there would be very little advantage given for buying founders packs.
Even so (even after buying one myself) i'd be fine with having 5 slots be the norm since it would probably end up making the game more money in the long run. More players would end up being interested in NWO and playing it, and eventually spending money on it.
Still, I think a 3 character limit initially is enough to allow players to get a good feel for the characters they like. If you did the whole 5 character slots but 2 are limited in level until you purchase them ....it would be the best of all worlds. They would make money, but the players could try out all the classes and choose their favorites.
wulfster42, it's best not to worry about certain people around here. There are maybe 3 or 4 users that are in every thread simply for the sake of devil's advocate, negative criticism, and/or trolling. They'll disagree with ANY topic of conversation simply for the spread of more negative outlook on the game (which makes me wonder if they even want to play it, and if not, why stay here). They don't offer anything new, don't want to help improve anything, and won't accept other points of view unless they put the devs in a malicious light. You've explained your system multiple times over, and I think it's a great idea that is beneficial in the long run. All you can do is trust that the people in charge see the thread's positive points, or get try and contact them directly.
If you ask me, this has become one of the saddest places in video game forums, even the mods don't comment much anymore. Good start for a foundry scenario.....
Lol, sounds like a scary quest!!
I should be used to it from DDO....forums have changed so much over the years, especially beta forums.
I used to play text based MMO's before everquest, dark age of camelot etc came out, and was in most of the early MMO's betas (WoW etc). I heard in the NCOS that they were relying on our input (and they even stated they wanted to hear it about character slots) so I figured I'd start a topic on it. It's been awhile since I have been in a beta where the players opinions and ideas have made a direct impact on how the game turned out. It's a great opportunity.
I should be used to it from DDO....forums have changed so much over the years, especially beta forums.
I used to play text based MMO's before everquest, dark age of camelot etc came out, and was in most of the early MMO's betas (WoW etc). I heard in the NCOS that they were relying on our input (and they even stated they wanted to hear it about character slots) so I figured I'd start a topic on it. It's been awhile since I have been in a beta where the players opinions and ideas have made a direct impact on how the game turned out. It's a great opportunity.
Especially considering how many classes they could potentially create throughout the game's lifespan. If people think 2 slots is enough for what they claim to have in the far future (and NOT expect multiple accounts), they should re-evaluate their strategy. If someone were to come in hypothetically years from now and see, say, 30 classes, how will you know which one to invest in with only two slots? It would either be an immediate don't-like-the-mechanics-I-quit, or a free trial to potentially longer term players and more invested PCs.
Especially considering how many classes they could potentially create throughout the game's lifespan. If people think 2 slots is enough for what they claim to have in the far future (and NOT expect multiple accounts), they should re-evaluate their strategy. If someone were to come in hypothetically years from now and see, say, 30 classes, how will you know which one to invest in with only two slots?
Exactly!!
That is why I like the whole "limited" character slot idea. It lets you try out a character, probably up to level 20, and then decide if you want to keep it.
When I played that TERA game I enjoyed my warrior the most probably, but I had already deleted it to try other classes and wasn't motivated to replay it up again. I can totally see that happening in NWO as well. Even with the initial 5 classes.
Part of the long term problem would be if there are 30 classes eventually (I WOULD LOVE THAT)...if all but the initial 5 need to be purchased...it still makes it a blind leap/gamble on if you will like the class. I still think giving people a taste of what they are going to get, letting them try the wares so to speak, is the best way to sell things..and more importantly, keep the customer happy with what they have purchased.
It's the basic concept of FTP really (let people try the game and then charge them for it once they find they enjoy it) but played out with the store purchases as well.
And yes, it was a great interview. I actually belong to Tyrs Paladium so it was really cool to hear Andre asking all the questions.
Yeah, ideas are exactly what I was hoping to get going in this thread. I'm fine with 5 character slots as well, but I was trying to set up a way to sorta give 5 character slots but still give them the ability to make money on the slots with the initial content.
I don't think there is much reason to have to characters of the same class, so if we had 5 character slots for everyone, then first...there would be no reason for anyone to buy additional ones, and second, there would be very little advantage given for buying founders packs.
Even so (even after buying one myself) i'd be fine with having 5 slots be the norm since it would probably end up making the game more money in the long run. More players would end up being interested in NWO and playing it, and eventually spending money on it.
Still, I think a 3 character limit initially is enough to allow players to get a good feel for the characters they like. If you did the whole 5 character slots but 2 are limited in level until you purchase them ....it would be the best of all worlds. They would make money, but the players could try out all the classes and choose their favorites.
Yes but we know, Scourge Warlock and Archer Ranger are sure to follow along with two weapon ranger. that makes 8 and squez said he loves bards so if that one comes it is 9 also Im sure Paladin and Warlord will make an appearance, but truly there are so many classes they can add from just 4th edition, plus hybrid, and or multiclassing(I think that hybrid/multiclass should be a premium character slot at around $15-25, while normal classes are normal character slots) plus more races, racial backgrounds, skins etc. that may make you want over a lot of slots. I am not an expert, but I believe even with 5 slots many people will buy more.(especially if they are at the right price)
That is why I like the whole "limited" character slot idea. It lets you try out a character, probably up to level 20, and then decide if you want to keep it.
When I played that TERA game I enjoyed my warrior the most probably, but I had already deleted it to try other classes and wasn't motivated to replay it up again. I can totally see that happening in NWO as well. Even with the initial 5 classes.
Part of the long term problem would be if there are 30 classes eventually (I WOULD LOVE THAT)...if all but the initial 5 need to be purchased...it still makes it a blind leap/gamble on if you will like the class. I still think giving people a taste of what they are going to get, letting them try the wares so to speak, is the best way to sell things..and more importantly, keep the customer happy with what they have purchased.
It's the basic concept of FTP really (let people try the game and then charge them for it once they find they enjoy it) but played out with the store purchases as well.
There will be a public test realm before new classes, races,content etc is released... so people would already have "free" testing of different classes;)
Yes but we know, Scourge Warlock and Archer Ranger are sure to follow along with two weapon ranger. that makes 8 and squez said he loves bards so if that one comes it is 9 also Im sure Paladin and Warlord will make an appearance, but truly there are so many classes they can add from just 4th edition, plus hybrid, and or multiclassing(I think that hybrid/multiclass should be a premium character slot at around $15-25, while normal classes are normal character slots) plus more races, racial backgrounds, skins etc. that may make you want over a lot of slots. I am not an expert, but I believe even with 5 slots many people will buy more.(especially if they are at the right price)
I'll be trying all the classes for sure, although...I probably won't be playing a Cleric or Guardian unless I run out of other classes to play heh. I'm looking forward to playing 3 initial classes (rogue/GWF and Wizard) on release. We don't know how long it'll take to get to 60, but I'm hoping that will keep me busy until more classes are released. I have DDO to play as well if I start running out of stuff.
I'd want to play all 3 of the classes you mentioned though (archer ranger the most probably), so thats 6 character slots total I'll need right there. Basically by the time I would need more though, I'd be more then happy with spending more money to play them:)
There will be a public test realm before new classes, races,content etc is released... so people would already have "free" testing of different classes;)
Hmm, they have something like that in DDO as well, a test server. I have over the years downloaded it and tested stuff on it (have it downloaded right now actually). I don't know if NWO will be the same, but you have to download the whole game again for DDO (having 2 on your computer)...which has in the past kept me from keeping it on my comp.
If anyone can jump in and test stuff, that will be really great:)
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ganiriesMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited February 2013
Adding more races and classes will encourage people to keep buying character slots after this initial 3 or 4 that lets them try more of the basic classes of game.
I do think the producers and publishers are taking into account the overall discussion on these forums, but I also believe that many of the decisions they've made are completely pre-calculated. We're in the metrics age people, decisions are made with numbers in mind.
By only releasing 5 builds on launch (as they say they will) and slowly releasing new character builds over time, people will buy extra character slots. Think about the release of a bard, paladin, [insert your favorite class here]. How many players will have empty slots 6 months from now? Or a year? If I had to guess, they would start early, like a month after launch, and then proceed to reveal a new build every couple months. Or if you will, the amount of time it takes someone to casually max-level and gear-up a character.
From my experience people get fairly attached (some psychologically so) to their characters and if they enjoy the game, if only just casually, they probably won't want to delete a character. Unless a character class/build completely bores or disgusts them, they're probably going to keep it. Especially if they're like most people, and spend a good amount of time 'creating' their character, people feel guilt about all the time wasted.
As people have already said, players will create other accounts. When I paid subscriptions for games, the first being EQ2 on launch, I marveled at how many people would sub to a second account just for the alts. Hell (can I say hell?), I've seen people pay a second subscription fee just for crafting alts. Creating a 2nd account here will be much cheaper.
For me, it really depends on the price of the extra character slots. I have no problem with the starting two if the price is reasonable for extra. It's all relative really, for some people $5 may be a lot, for some people $20 will be too much. I'm pretty sure they'll figure out, with discussions like this, how many starting slots are good for us (just enough to appease the community), and how many are good for them to make a profit in the future. Because of the D&D license, it seems much of the profit will be in creating new class builds and in creating new Forgotten Realms content to play through.
I am sure people will buy more character slots no matter what.
I do think more people will stick around if they have more initial slots though...to eventually buy more (not to mention buy the character classes as well).
2 slots is good.and only reason for two slots per acc is because of astral diamonds and ad exchange ,if they put more then 2 slots they would be forced to put refine limit on acc not char since there is always tons of ppl with tons of time to farm ad and refine them on all chars so if would they put even more slots then 2 that ppl would flood ad exchange and ruin its value ,so they limit number of char per acc to 2 to discourage ppl form making army of alts for ad farm
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drwarpeffectMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 71Arc User
edited February 2013
To all those that answer, "(j)ust pay for the additional slots," that does nothing to reply to the OP's argument. Two is too few and not only can be easily got around without PWE getting the money, it also encourages some players to just take their business elsewhere. The $200 founders pack, the pay to beta (at least the first weekend), and things like only 2 slots all are discouraging me from NW when I was initially very excited and willing to spend money.
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klangeddinMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 882Arc User
edited February 2013
I would agree with the OP if this game started with more than 5 classes. Heck, even more than 6 :P
Maybe they can add additional free slots in the future when they add more classes.
I get the point about the "short term profit" thing that the OP is trying to make, those who are "undecided" and are willing to try all the different classes up to a high level before paying for anything may be discouraged by having to do this in separated accounts.
It's not my case, as I know exactly that my main will be the Dwarf Guardian Fighter :P
I also understand that the company has to start making a profit somewhere, and this could be a place to start, as I mentioned earlier, they can just keep it to 2 until they sell, and then raise that number if they see that multiple accounts (that buy nothing) start springing one after the other.
Everyone complaining about the need to buy slots forgets one very important detail - Astral Diamonds can be used to buy ZEN, which in turn can be used to buy character slots.
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klangeddinMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 882Arc User
Everyone complaining about the need to buy slots forgets one very important detail - Astral Diamonds can be used to buy ZEN, which in turn can be used to buy character slots.
Astral Diamonds can be earned infinitely in game for free?
Everyone complaining about the need to buy slots forgets one very important detail - Astral Diamonds can be used to buy ZEN, which in turn can be used to buy character slots.
Comments
That's just the outcome I see. That being said, I am also of the camp that 2 is ridiculously low even for a lowly serf just starting their career as a hero in Neverwinter. Guess we'll see how it goes.
So judging from past games that this company has made, looking at their track record and predicting based on the financial model they have put forward what will happen is not solid reasoning? Ok I am out. No use talking to someone who has made up their mind using their own opinion as proof.
Adding more races and classes will encourage people to keep buying character slots after this initial 3 or 4 that lets them try more of the basic classes of game. Then on top of this come the mounts, the extra bag space, appearance gear, and so on.
Deathssickle,
I watched the NOCS (it was great with alot of information) and in fact that is what motivated me to make this thread. They said they were looking into how many character slots we would start with, so I made a thread explaining why I think more would be better and some ways to make that work.
I'm not sure why there is arguing going on, I was just trying to get some conversation started on the subject, so the developers could see our opinions. I tried to show a way to have additional character slots, but still eventually sell them (limiting the character slots to level 20 until they are purchased) and I tried to point out why having more then 2 to start is a good idea and will probably make more money.
It's not a huge deal to me, but I think it will make the game more fun for everyone. What will be a nice advantage will be in the future when I need more slots when additional classes come out. I'd rather get a chance to try the classes before buying additional slots (not to mention it would be great to try the classes out before purchasing them either!!).
This thread was just meant to be a positive way to talk about character slots and let the developers know what we would like. I tried to also show how they could still make money while providing that. Any other thoughts on the issue would be great!
The arguing appears to be coming from people who think we are suggesting ways for the company to NOT make money...ie simplistic thinking of "take away one or two opportunities to buy xx item means money lost" rather than seeing how "encourage people to buy many other things by getting them invested into scenario = more dollars overall".
How many times do we have to tell you that this would directly impact their income? Every F2P MMO only offers two slots for a reason, and it isn't because they don't make money selling character slots.
Simplistic thinking, as above.
Also, what games only offer two slots...I'm usually a subscriber of sub-based games, not a freebie player. Can you list? Guessing you're a bit of an expert on freebie games. If you list we might start seeing why these 2 slot games aren't popular or known about.
Why would my suggestion of having 3 base character slots with 2 slots that only let you level up to 20, make them less money?
Yes, I guess 3 slots instead of 2 means players would need to buy 1 less character slot, so you might possibly make a bit less money if EVERYONE decided to stay at only 3 slots.
But by having 3 slots players can try out 3 of the 5 classes, and by having 2 slots with limited leveling, players can try all the initial classes and if they don't like one, even have room to purchase and try out a new class or two when it comes out.
I don't have any evidence (since it's impossible to do so without testing) but I'd be willing to bet you'd end up selling MORE character slots by giving players a taste (20 levels) then by making them buy a slot before they can do anything with it.
As an example though, I just played TERA online while DDO was down for 2 days. I tried a few classes, but to do so initially I had to delete my character every time (because it limits you to only two characters). Could I have bought more? Sure. Will I? No, because I wasn't enjoying myself much.
I might have decided to continue playing a few of them though if I hadn't deleted them already to try the others. Having only 2 character slots means it's much harder for players to find the class/character that they will like the most. Happy players, who are playing a class that fits them the best, are going to stay around and play longer, and they are going to spend more.
I have no clue how much character slots are going to be, but honestly....I doubt it's going to be more then $10 a pop, and if I enjoy NWO enough to play more then a month, then it's not going to matter to me much how much they cost. I do think it will have an effect on how many players the game ends up with though, which will have an impact on how well the game does.
I have no clue if TERA gets better, and I will probably never have a clue, because I got burnt out on the "fairly" boring early game just trying out the different classes. I could have just stuck with one, but I generally like to try them all and then choose the class I enjoy the most to focus on. TERA just didn't do it for me, and probably wouldn't have even with enough character slots to try every class....but the experience of having to delete my characters to try new classes stuck with me, and I can see people having to do that in NWO getting frustrated and leaving.
Im fine with good suggestions, but the arguments get crazy, and Im glad you listened to NOCS. I wish more would realize, this is beta and they are testing more than we know about. Our responses will make a difference, but Cryptic will need to make money, personally I find 5 to start reasonable.(I had D3 CE and only had about like 10 character slots in D3). so I think 5 is reasonable(plus with 5 you can make 1 of each starting class). I believe because more classes and races will be released I believe, that people will want more slots and Cryptic will sell them.(it pains me to delete characters I spend hours upon hours on). I could be wrong, but I wont argue this I just am giving some input
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And there's no way giving people more character slots for free means that people would buy more character slots. Would you really buy something you already have enough of?
That would not necessarily be true - lots of people will want to try several classes before deciding which one they want to play first. Forcing them to delete or make multiple accounts will be the cause of them turning away from the game in the first instance, or them never properly investing into any one account in the second - treating game as a pure freebie.
In my case I'm suggesting switching focus from trying to get players to invest in game in first place (selling character slots), to allowing them to invest (by giving them several characters to play from start) then selling them other items once invested (account-wide unlocks - mounts/races/classes/access to stuff/bag space/etc).
It's this approach that will make more money. Many people won't even get to the invested in game stage with 2 slots, so won't be open to buying account unlocks. Better to get them to that stage from the very start.
If you ask me, this has become one of the saddest places in video game forums, even the mods don't comment much anymore. Good start for a foundry scenario.....
Thanks for the input:)
And yes, it was a great interview. I actually belong to Tyrs Paladium so it was really cool to hear Andre asking all the questions.
Yeah, ideas are exactly what I was hoping to get going in this thread. I'm fine with 5 character slots as well, but I was trying to set up a way to sorta give 5 character slots but still give them the ability to make money on the slots with the initial content.
I don't think there is much reason to have to characters of the same class, so if we had 5 character slots for everyone, then first...there would be no reason for anyone to buy additional ones, and second, there would be very little advantage given for buying founders packs.
Even so (even after buying one myself) i'd be fine with having 5 slots be the norm since it would probably end up making the game more money in the long run. More players would end up being interested in NWO and playing it, and eventually spending money on it.
Still, I think a 3 character limit initially is enough to allow players to get a good feel for the characters they like. If you did the whole 5 character slots but 2 are limited in level until you purchase them ....it would be the best of all worlds. They would make money, but the players could try out all the classes and choose their favorites.
Lol, sounds like a scary quest!!
I should be used to it from DDO....forums have changed so much over the years, especially beta forums.
I used to play text based MMO's before everquest, dark age of camelot etc came out, and was in most of the early MMO's betas (WoW etc). I heard in the NCOS that they were relying on our input (and they even stated they wanted to hear it about character slots) so I figured I'd start a topic on it. It's been awhile since I have been in a beta where the players opinions and ideas have made a direct impact on how the game turned out. It's a great opportunity.
Especially considering how many classes they could potentially create throughout the game's lifespan. If people think 2 slots is enough for what they claim to have in the far future (and NOT expect multiple accounts), they should re-evaluate their strategy. If someone were to come in hypothetically years from now and see, say, 30 classes, how will you know which one to invest in with only two slots? It would either be an immediate don't-like-the-mechanics-I-quit, or a free trial to potentially longer term players and more invested PCs.
Exactly!!
That is why I like the whole "limited" character slot idea. It lets you try out a character, probably up to level 20, and then decide if you want to keep it.
When I played that TERA game I enjoyed my warrior the most probably, but I had already deleted it to try other classes and wasn't motivated to replay it up again. I can totally see that happening in NWO as well. Even with the initial 5 classes.
Part of the long term problem would be if there are 30 classes eventually (I WOULD LOVE THAT)...if all but the initial 5 need to be purchased...it still makes it a blind leap/gamble on if you will like the class. I still think giving people a taste of what they are going to get, letting them try the wares so to speak, is the best way to sell things..and more importantly, keep the customer happy with what they have purchased.
It's the basic concept of FTP really (let people try the game and then charge them for it once they find they enjoy it) but played out with the store purchases as well.
Yes but we know, Scourge Warlock and Archer Ranger are sure to follow along with two weapon ranger. that makes 8 and squez said he loves bards so if that one comes it is 9 also Im sure Paladin and Warlord will make an appearance, but truly there are so many classes they can add from just 4th edition, plus hybrid, and or multiclassing(I think that hybrid/multiclass should be a premium character slot at around $15-25, while normal classes are normal character slots) plus more races, racial backgrounds, skins etc. that may make you want over a lot of slots. I am not an expert, but I believe even with 5 slots many people will buy more.(especially if they are at the right price)
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There will be a public test realm before new classes, races,content etc is released... so people would already have "free" testing of different classes;)
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I'll be trying all the classes for sure, although...I probably won't be playing a Cleric or Guardian unless I run out of other classes to play heh. I'm looking forward to playing 3 initial classes (rogue/GWF and Wizard) on release. We don't know how long it'll take to get to 60, but I'm hoping that will keep me busy until more classes are released. I have DDO to play as well if I start running out of stuff.
I'd want to play all 3 of the classes you mentioned though (archer ranger the most probably), so thats 6 character slots total I'll need right there. Basically by the time I would need more though, I'd be more then happy with spending more money to play them:)
Hmm, they have something like that in DDO as well, a test server. I have over the years downloaded it and tested stuff on it (have it downloaded right now actually). I don't know if NWO will be the same, but you have to download the whole game again for DDO (having 2 on your computer)...which has in the past kept me from keeping it on my comp.
If anyone can jump in and test stuff, that will be really great:)
I do think the producers and publishers are taking into account the overall discussion on these forums, but I also believe that many of the decisions they've made are completely pre-calculated. We're in the metrics age people, decisions are made with numbers in mind.
By only releasing 5 builds on launch (as they say they will) and slowly releasing new character builds over time, people will buy extra character slots. Think about the release of a bard, paladin, [insert your favorite class here]. How many players will have empty slots 6 months from now? Or a year? If I had to guess, they would start early, like a month after launch, and then proceed to reveal a new build every couple months. Or if you will, the amount of time it takes someone to casually max-level and gear-up a character.
From my experience people get fairly attached (some psychologically so) to their characters and if they enjoy the game, if only just casually, they probably won't want to delete a character. Unless a character class/build completely bores or disgusts them, they're probably going to keep it. Especially if they're like most people, and spend a good amount of time 'creating' their character, people feel guilt about all the time wasted.
As people have already said, players will create other accounts. When I paid subscriptions for games, the first being EQ2 on launch, I marveled at how many people would sub to a second account just for the alts. Hell (can I say hell?), I've seen people pay a second subscription fee just for crafting alts. Creating a 2nd account here will be much cheaper.
For me, it really depends on the price of the extra character slots. I have no problem with the starting two if the price is reasonable for extra. It's all relative really, for some people $5 may be a lot, for some people $20 will be too much. I'm pretty sure they'll figure out, with discussions like this, how many starting slots are good for us (just enough to appease the community), and how many are good for them to make a profit in the future. Because of the D&D license, it seems much of the profit will be in creating new class builds and in creating new Forgotten Realms content to play through.
PS. Speaking of EQ2 Here's an old video of someone deleting a character. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grXeU-SAxBw V
I am sure people will buy more character slots no matter what.
I do think more people will stick around if they have more initial slots though...to eventually buy more (not to mention buy the character classes as well).
Maybe they can add additional free slots in the future when they add more classes.
I get the point about the "short term profit" thing that the OP is trying to make, those who are "undecided" and are willing to try all the different classes up to a high level before paying for anything may be discouraged by having to do this in separated accounts.
It's not my case, as I know exactly that my main will be the Dwarf Guardian Fighter :P
I also understand that the company has to start making a profit somewhere, and this could be a place to start, as I mentioned earlier, they can just keep it to 2 until they sell, and then raise that number if they see that multiple accounts (that buy nothing) start springing one after the other.
Astral Diamonds can be earned infinitely in game for free?
True, Everything can be bought if you play enough
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pretty much...
Anyone still searching for guilds you can check out HCG Hardcore Christian Gamers.
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