Why, is paid for entitlement means that much to you? Seriously, that is horrible, I am not that special so I am going to sue you to make me special again. Gamers like you give us the bad reputation. If I had the money, I would buy the Hero of the North pack to support the company not just because I got a digital kitty.
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vuzetheory904Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited February 2013
That's really what it's about.... I mean I'm getting SO much HAMSTER from some friends that I talk to on mumble, about spending 200 bucks on a game I never even played once. But it's not about the goodies you get, or the additions they give you. It's about believing in a company, and supporting that company. That they will make a game worth playing, and not something you'll play for a month, then find out it's a load of horse HAMSTER and has little replay value. I'd kill for a game I can actually stick to, that's why I paid my 200, to give them the funds to turn this amazing game NOW into a amazing game 5 years from now. I'd love to stick it to those naysayers...
However, the mere pointing out of this irrefutable FACT gets modded.
For instance, they clearly deleted the above, preventing me from quoting it in this reply. :rolleyes:
This forum abounds with examples of people managing to discuss this fact without breaking the rules. It's not a secret to anybody that "exclusive" has never been defined as "exclusive forever", merely as "exclusive", if they read any of the numerous threads that have discussed this. Nobody's hiding anything; it's just a difference of opinion about the meaning of an ambiguous word. You think the word ought to be used differently than they're using it; OK, express that opinion. Nobody's stopping you.
Here, I'll say something you think people don't get to say:
It's not "chances are at least a few"; it's virtually certain that all or nearly all will be made available via other means within 18 months of the end of sales of the Founder's Pack. That's how Cryptic's been doing this stuff for years, and STO executive producers stated that over and over again in interviews all over the place, including in Ask Cryptic posts.
This vast cover-up you're alleging simply doesn't exist, and your own posts are proof of that.
For instance, they clearly deleted the above, preventing me from quoting it in this reply. :rolleyes:
This forum abounds with examples of people managing to discuss this fact without breaking the rules. It's not a secret to anybody that "exclusive" has never been defined as "exclusive forever", merely as "exclusive", if they read any of the numerous threads that have discussed this. Nobody's hiding anything; it's just a difference of opinion about the meaning of an ambiguous word. You think the word ought to be used differently than they're using it; OK, express that opinion. Nobody's stopping you.
Here, I'll say something you think people don't get to say:
It's not "chances are at least a few"; it's virtually certain that all or nearly all will be made available via other means within 18 months of the end of sales of the Founder's Pack. That's how Cryptic's been doing this stuff for years, and STO executive producers stated that over and over again in interviews all over the place, including in Ask Cryptic posts.
This vast cover-up you're alleging simply doesn't exist, and your own posts are proof of that.
At least three posts on the subject have been deleted, one in this very thread.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited February 2013
Offer up something constructive and it shall survive. A post like the above normally would not.
The number of removed posts on the topic is, honestly, lower than it could/should be. We're being as lenient as possible.
Mindless bashing of the company simply stating how bad they are has survived much more than *any* other moderating team would allow. If you at least make a constructive post dealing with the matter and citing evidence rather than simply insulting Cryptic/PWE/Their Games your post will 100% survive.
And that's the difference between mindless bashing and constructive discussion. In fact, only one user has had posts removed for mindlessly bashing Crypitc/PWE, every one of the removed posts were first reported by users, and the removed posts only make up a tiny fraction of the number of reports received against that user.
It's all in the manner of wording, tone and purpose.
If you feel the contrary, PM the Community Moderators, cmpinpointerror or dezstravus. Don't bring it up as a public discussion to derail a thread.
However syberghost brings up an interesting point. The term exclusive does mean different things to different people.
Just look at any newpaper or magizine article...every single one of them are called exclusives but they all have the same artivle worded differently. That's not my definition of exclusive...
To me exclusive means forever...and I hope that Cryptic will honor the normal use of the term exclusive...
But the term exclusive merely implies forever. It's not built in. *sighs*
I so detest this topic because it is one I have absolutely no way to side with Cryptic with. Exclusive *should* mean forever, but in this day in age it often doesn't and not only to Cryptic/PWE but throughout video games.
And this is just the time I accept defeat, hope for the best but prepare for the worst. Saves me a lot of anger and frustration if I don't expect something which can be redefined.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. IMO the only genuine reason to buy the pre-orders is to help support the game. Buying it for the shinies will almost certainly result in some form of buyers' remorse eventually.
I wouldn't say the only genuine reason for me. While I would agree that for the vast majority of people it might be a good reason. Lets take me for instance. A big part of the reason I bought the HotN pack was for the panther. I really like panthers (and no it has nothing to do with Drizzt, I hate Drow. Might as well be Twilight vampires.). While I know in the future there might be a panther on the cash store for sale it might take 3 - 12 months and I wanted to make sure I had it for launch. I really want them to put up something like a Dire Panther, Jaguar or Leopard as a as a mount. I would pay cash for that too. As to the exclusivity of these things I don't give a rats HAMSTER about it so that is never something that is going to give me buyers remorse. If anything gives me buyers remorse it will most likely be that I gave money to a company that made a game that was so easy I can play it in my sleep and not die. But time will only tell about that.
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cragarionMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Except that in order to successfully sue you have to prove not only that there was a broken promise but that you have incurred some actual damages as a result. That will be the hard part. "It hurt my feelings," is unlikely to move a judge sufficiently.
No its called false advertising, and thats against the law, if they advertise they will never sell the item again then by advertising laws they cant.
FYI There are two types of Drow Entries for character creation. Not one.
Drow Species Text:
Drow are a decadent race of dark elves whose beauty and sophistication fail to mask hearts all too often stained in evil. The vast majority of dark elves base their behavior and attitudes on the worship of the chaotic evil goddess Lolth, also known as the Spider Queen.
Drow society is organized into houses. The heads of the most powerful houses occupy leadership position in the various cities of the Underdark, the subterranean realm beneath Faerun that the dark elves call home.
Menzoberranzan Renegade aka Drow Renegade Text:
Drow from the city of Menzoberranzan are raised in a world of lies and treachery. The noble houses of these dark elves are in constant conflict, vying for power and the favor of their evil goddess, Lolth the Spider Queen.
Sometimes a drow tires of the constant strife. Others see through the corrupt dogma of the Way of Lolth and seek a better way. There is no place within Menzoberranzan society for such drow and when discovered are branded as renegades, outcast from their house, and exiled from the city.
I think the ingame title is exclusive enough. In EQ2 we got 'world former' if I remember correctly, this was something you couldn't buy afterwards.
p.s. or was that Warhammer?!?
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neyariMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited March 2013
Personally at this point I hope everything save for the precious tan drow gets added in at some point. As fancy as the armored horse is, I can't picture it being exclusive, especially in this kinda game setting.
The only rarity I've ever supported in game are ones that everyone has a shot at as far as mounts go. Be it the endless grinding of a wow game to just general loot tables. When its something thats determined by chance, and everyone has it, no one can really complain about it. (lies, they can, but its not the kind where you point at the other player for it)
Purchased exclusivity with these launch packs just ends up becoming a mess as Cryptic no doubt has plans to reuse the resources. Believing that just because you adopted the game earlier than someone else should entitle you to fancy rewards and super special windows of time for play ends up hurting the game itself as the community will often reflect it towards newer inexperienced visitors.
The title should have been it as far as exclusivity goes. End of story. You get fancy recognition for your donation, you shouldn't look like someone beat you to death with a glitter stick.
Just to clarify, sometimes exclusive means first instead of unique. That's all I'm saying on this.
Good point. Though it was *officially* stated the Spider Mount and Mezzo Drow would remain exclusive "forever" [paraphrased] (and of course forum posts can be changed or even deleted post-hence, but meh). I thought it unusual that it was made to be clear that they "remain hereafter forever exclusive". I personally don't care one way or the other if either of them end-up on the C-Store. But if they turn completely free by default, I'll prolly grumble a bit, then shrug it off.
Obviously everything is still in major flux by nature of "beta" status and I'm cool with all that.
But I get the tingly impression your post is a precursor to emo-fueled drama-fest-generating announcement to come. LOL
We all know at one point or another all the items will end up in the store maybe slightly altered with re-skins or such but it will all eventually be there cryptic has done this with every MMO they have so there is no way this game is gonna be any different....
Probably not for a couple months but mark my words the stuff will start appearing eventually.....
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xaralleiMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 101Arc User
edited March 2013
The only reason I'd be a bit annoyed at them selling stuff in the shop after isn't because of exclusivity. It's because I'd feel kind of taken advantage of. If I had known the stuff would be sold in the shop maybe I wouldn't have forked over $200 and would have waited. All hypothetically that is (haven't bought a pack). So it would be nice if PWE would come out and tell the truth about whether this stuff (or at least reskins of this stuff) will be in the shop in the future. I don't expect them to, but if they did I would certainly respect them more. There are certain things I like in the pack, but I am just not certain they are worth $200. I keep swinging back and forth about whether to buy it or not. If I had tons of money though I probably would just splurge. But I don't at the moment so I have to really think about my purchases right now.
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bruddajokkaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 447Bounty Hunter
edited March 2013
There's other spider mounts in the game. There's only one armored spider in the game. There's also panthers, wargs, and bears. Oh my.
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hipolipolopigusMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
The only reason I'd be a bit annoyed at them selling stuff in the shop after isn't because of exclusivity. It's because I'd feel kind of taken advantage of. If I had known the stuff would be sold in the shop maybe I wouldn't have forked over $200 and would have waited. All hypothetically that is (haven't bought a pack). So it would be nice if PWE would come out and tell the truth about whether this stuff (or at least reskins of this stuff) will be in the shop in the future. I don't expect them to, but if they did I would certainly respect them more. There are certain things I like in the pack, but I am just not certain they are worth $200. I keep swinging back and forth about whether to buy it or not. If I had tons of money though I probably would just splurge. But I don't at the moment so I have to really think about my purchases right now.
I don't have any issue with any of the "exclusive" stuff showing up in the Zen Store. I'm really fine with it... as long as it doesn't show up for a few months and let us (Founders) have our exclusivity for a bit. Now if the Mezzo costume ever ended-up as a freebie, I'd be livid. But paid-for in the Zen Store? Nah - I'm good with that. I bought HotN for the full package, but the deciding factors for ME are "VIP Access" (NWO *will* be crowded at launch and for some time to come), the Spider Mount (No one else will have it - at least for along time) and the Hero of the North in-game title. The cinch for purchase was the extra character slots, Astral Diamonds and additional inventory slots.
As for the current topic in this thread" "Exclusive is or is not..." I agree: to me "exclusive" always meant "here and nowhere else forever", as in EX-clusive being opposite of IN-clusive. Which, I guess means something can only be EXclusive until it becomes INclusive.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. IMO the only genuine reason to buy the pre-orders is to help support the game. Buying it for the shinies will almost certainly result in some form of buyers' remorse eventually.
note that with the packs the included items come once per character. thats 5 spiders & 5 panthers/3 armoured houses & 3 dire wolves respectively. (armoured horses cost way more gold than one is likely to have @ that stage of the game.) plus a set of civvies free of (additional) charge, or at least a mask to wear to the inevitable undies dance party. and ive not seen it stated anywhere by devs that drow is a free race. see blacklight: retribution for paid unlocks (yes i bought 2 heroes, but no receivers!). 3/1 character slots. thats 3000/1000 zen on BL:R. and if i buy another slot for however much it goes for? i get my horse and wolf, again! if we look at it this way, i mean really, why does exclusivity even enter into it?
Except that in order to successfully sue you have to prove not only that there was a broken promise but that you have incurred some actual damages as a result. That will be the hard part. "It hurt my feelings," is unlikely to move a judge sufficiently.
one assumes you are not in the USA or a similarly litigious society. see: tort reform. but that doesnt make a frivolous lawsuit valid. always read what is written and not what is perceived to have been read. unless you like (unpleasant) surprises.(note that in the end i do not disagree w/ silvergryph)
I can say this from buying the STO lifetime account back in January of 2010. Most of the perks never did hit the store but the price was cut down by $100 perks. So we may see this in Neverwinter where HotN stays as something you can buy after release. And at times a perk to buy it will be it is costs only $99. Buying a lifetime account with STO auto-boost your account to the lifetime of the game so you are not hurt for waiting to buy. You can argue people who spent $299 before launch got burned a little because everyone gets boosted up to them for a $100 less but I do not know how Cryptic responded to that to say if we were not compensated.
I suppose you would also have to account for STO selling races and Neverwinter will not be selling races. So there is no guarantee STO is a model at all to follow for Neverwinter because they will have to sell something, still I would say it is probably true.
note that with the packs the included items come once per character. thats 5 spiders & 5 panthers/3 armoured houses & 3 dire wolves respectively. (armoured horses cost way more gold than one is likely to have @ that stage of the game.) plus a set of civvies free of (additional) charge, or at least a mask to wear to the inevitable undies dance party. and ive not seen it stated anywhere by devs that drow is a free race. see blacklight: retribution for paid unlocks (yes i bought 2 heroes, but no receivers!). 3/1 character slots. thats 3000/1000 zen on BL:R. and if i buy another slot for however much it goes for? i get my horse and wolf, again! if we look at it this way, i mean really, why does exclusivity even enter into it?
one assumes you are not in the USA or a similarly litigious society. see: tort reform. but that doesnt make a frivolous lawsuit valid. always read what is written and not what is perceived to have been read. unless you like (unpleasant) surprises.(note that in the end i do not disagree w/ silvergryph)
i quote this because i laughed out loud. someone else asked why all the Drizzt themed Xclusives. say it with me folks - MARKETING!. ty.
nicely done.
exclusive perquisites does not mean exclusive coding just for me. (sadly enough)
Oh hey we do get dragonborn, that changes everything. If there was any other point then we get dragonborn in that post I totally missed it, otherwise thanks! ! !
I've said it before and I'll say it again. IMO the only genuine reason to buy the pre-orders is to help support the game. Buying it for the shinies will almost certainly result in some form of buyers' remorse eventually.
Going along this line of thought, you will want to think more about whether this game will be worth supporting to that degree a week from launch, a month from launch, maybe even a year from launch. MMOs are supposed to be about longevity but it is something well worth thinking about and perhaps the thing I'm concerned most about next to Perfect World's history which I'm not very familiar with. Otherwise I wouldn't mind if within a year if all of these things became available for individual purchase so long as the game itself was worth supporting from the start.
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ekhranMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Going along this line of thought, you will want to think more about whether this game will be worth supporting to that degree a week from launch, a month from launch, maybe even a year from launch. MMOs are supposed to be about longevity but it is something well worth thinking about and perhaps the thing I'm concerned most about next to Perfect World's history which I'm not very familiar with. Otherwise I wouldn't mind if within a year if all of these things became available for individual purchase so long as the game itself was worth supporting from the start.
pretty sure what we get exclusively will stay exclusive in their current form.
However... I'm 100% that they will be sold with different colors for panther, and probably spider mounts without armor and fiff color.
But as for Renegade Drows... That will stay exclusive thats 100%. Most HoTN did purchase that pack for the Sub-Race, myself included.
Let's be honest here. The HoTN packs most attractive point is the Sub-Race. If they would release it in Zen-Store... Well there would be a big uproar about it.
Don't get me wrong... I'm all for supporting the Devs. But if something is advertised and sold as exclusive, I demand to remain like that.
Comments
For instance, they clearly deleted the above, preventing me from quoting it in this reply. :rolleyes:
This forum abounds with examples of people managing to discuss this fact without breaking the rules. It's not a secret to anybody that "exclusive" has never been defined as "exclusive forever", merely as "exclusive", if they read any of the numerous threads that have discussed this. Nobody's hiding anything; it's just a difference of opinion about the meaning of an ambiguous word. You think the word ought to be used differently than they're using it; OK, express that opinion. Nobody's stopping you.
Here, I'll say something you think people don't get to say:
It's not "chances are at least a few"; it's virtually certain that all or nearly all will be made available via other means within 18 months of the end of sales of the Founder's Pack. That's how Cryptic's been doing this stuff for years, and STO executive producers stated that over and over again in interviews all over the place, including in Ask Cryptic posts.
This vast cover-up you're alleging simply doesn't exist, and your own posts are proof of that.
At least three posts on the subject have been deleted, one in this very thread.
The number of removed posts on the topic is, honestly, lower than it could/should be. We're being as lenient as possible.
Mindless bashing of the company simply stating how bad they are has survived much more than *any* other moderating team would allow. If you at least make a constructive post dealing with the matter and citing evidence rather than simply insulting Cryptic/PWE/Their Games your post will 100% survive.
And that's the difference between mindless bashing and constructive discussion. In fact, only one user has had posts removed for mindlessly bashing Crypitc/PWE, every one of the removed posts were first reported by users, and the removed posts only make up a tiny fraction of the number of reports received against that user.
It's all in the manner of wording, tone and purpose.
If you feel the contrary, PM the Community Moderators, cmpinpointerror or dezstravus. Don't bring it up as a public discussion to derail a thread.
However syberghost brings up an interesting point. The term exclusive does mean different things to different people.
Just look at any newpaper or magizine article...every single one of them are called exclusives but they all have the same artivle worded differently. That's not my definition of exclusive...
To me exclusive means forever...and I hope that Cryptic will honor the normal use of the term exclusive...
But the term exclusive merely implies forever. It's not built in. *sighs*
I so detest this topic because it is one I have absolutely no way to side with Cryptic with. Exclusive *should* mean forever, but in this day in age it often doesn't and not only to Cryptic/PWE but throughout video games.
And this is just the time I accept defeat, hope for the best but prepare for the worst. Saves me a lot of anger and frustration if I don't expect something which can be redefined.
I wouldn't say the only genuine reason for me. While I would agree that for the vast majority of people it might be a good reason. Lets take me for instance. A big part of the reason I bought the HotN pack was for the panther. I really like panthers (and no it has nothing to do with Drizzt, I hate Drow. Might as well be Twilight vampires.). While I know in the future there might be a panther on the cash store for sale it might take 3 - 12 months and I wanted to make sure I had it for launch. I really want them to put up something like a Dire Panther, Jaguar or Leopard as a as a mount. I would pay cash for that too. As to the exclusivity of these things I don't give a rats HAMSTER about it so that is never something that is going to give me buyers remorse. If anything gives me buyers remorse it will most likely be that I gave money to a company that made a game that was so easy I can play it in my sleep and not die. But time will only tell about that.
No its called false advertising, and thats against the law, if they advertise they will never sell the item again then by advertising laws they cant.
Drow Species Text: Menzoberranzan Renegade aka Drow Renegade Text:
I've been rooting through the client for sometime now.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?59811-Some-Neverwinter-Datamined-Info-%28Race-Class-Art-and-Text%29
Defs/Species/Dragonborn_Female.Species
Defs/Species/Dragonborn_Male.Species
Defs/Species/Drow_Female.Species
Defs/Species/Drow_Male.Species
Defs/Species/Drowrenegade_Female.Species
Defs/Species/Drowrenegade_Male.Species
Defs/Species/Dwarf_Female.Species
Defs/Species/Dwarf_Male.Species
Defs/Species/Elf_Female.Species
Defs/Species/Elf_Male.Species
Defs/Species/Halfelf_Female.Species
Defs/Species/Halfelf_Male.Species
Defs/Species/Halfling_Female.Species
Defs/Species/Halfling_Male.Species
Defs/Species/Halforc_Female.Species
Defs/Species/Halforc_Male.Species
Defs/Species/Human_Female.Species
Defs/Species/Human_Male.Species
Defs/Species/Tiefling_Male.Species
Defs/Species/Tiefling_Female.Species
p.s. or was that Warhammer?!?
The only rarity I've ever supported in game are ones that everyone has a shot at as far as mounts go. Be it the endless grinding of a wow game to just general loot tables. When its something thats determined by chance, and everyone has it, no one can really complain about it. (lies, they can, but its not the kind where you point at the other player for it)
Purchased exclusivity with these launch packs just ends up becoming a mess as Cryptic no doubt has plans to reuse the resources. Believing that just because you adopted the game earlier than someone else should entitle you to fancy rewards and super special windows of time for play ends up hurting the game itself as the community will often reflect it towards newer inexperienced visitors.
The title should have been it as far as exclusivity goes. End of story. You get fancy recognition for your donation, you shouldn't look like someone beat you to death with a glitter stick.
Good point. Though it was *officially* stated the Spider Mount and Mezzo Drow would remain exclusive "forever" [paraphrased] (and of course forum posts can be changed or even deleted post-hence, but meh). I thought it unusual that it was made to be clear that they "remain hereafter forever exclusive". I personally don't care one way or the other if either of them end-up on the C-Store. But if they turn completely free by default, I'll prolly grumble a bit, then shrug it off.
Obviously everything is still in major flux by nature of "beta" status and I'm cool with all that.
But I get the tingly impression your post is a precursor to emo-fueled drama-fest-generating announcement to come. LOL
Nothing like laughter early in the morning...:)
Probably not for a couple months but mark my words the stuff will start appearing eventually.....
While there's only one actual armored spider, the other variants appear to have different styles depending on their locale.
Want to know why Neverwinter is so laggy? Check out the "Latency" section in this thread.
I don't have any issue with any of the "exclusive" stuff showing up in the Zen Store. I'm really fine with it... as long as it doesn't show up for a few months and let us (Founders) have our exclusivity for a bit. Now if the Mezzo costume ever ended-up as a freebie, I'd be livid. But paid-for in the Zen Store? Nah - I'm good with that. I bought HotN for the full package, but the deciding factors for ME are "VIP Access" (NWO *will* be crowded at launch and for some time to come), the Spider Mount (No one else will have it - at least for along time) and the Hero of the North in-game title. The cinch for purchase was the extra character slots, Astral Diamonds and additional inventory slots.
As for the current topic in this thread" "Exclusive is or is not..." I agree: to me "exclusive" always meant "here and nowhere else forever", as in EX-clusive being opposite of IN-clusive. Which, I guess means something can only be EXclusive until it becomes INclusive.
~shrugs~
one assumes you are not in the USA or a similarly litigious society. see: tort reform. but that doesnt make a frivolous lawsuit valid. always read what is written and not what is perceived to have been read. unless you like (unpleasant) surprises.(note that in the end i do not disagree w/ silvergryph)
i quote this because i laughed out loud. someone else asked why all the Drizzt themed Xclusives. say it with me folks - MARKETING!. ty.
nicely done. exclusive perquisites does not mean exclusive coding just for me. (sadly enough)
Beta Junkie
I suppose you would also have to account for STO selling races and Neverwinter will not be selling races. So there is no guarantee STO is a model at all to follow for Neverwinter because they will have to sell something, still I would say it is probably true.
Oh hey we do get dragonborn, that changes everything. If there was any other point then we get dragonborn in that post I totally missed it, otherwise thanks! ! !
Going along this line of thought, you will want to think more about whether this game will be worth supporting to that degree a week from launch, a month from launch, maybe even a year from launch. MMOs are supposed to be about longevity but it is something well worth thinking about and perhaps the thing I'm concerned most about next to Perfect World's history which I'm not very familiar with. Otherwise I wouldn't mind if within a year if all of these things became available for individual purchase so long as the game itself was worth supporting from the start.
pretty sure what we get exclusively will stay exclusive in their current form.
However... I'm 100% that they will be sold with different colors for panther, and probably spider mounts without armor and fiff color.
But as for Renegade Drows... That will stay exclusive thats 100%. Most HoTN did purchase that pack for the Sub-Race, myself included.
Let's be honest here. The HoTN packs most attractive point is the Sub-Race. If they would release it in Zen-Store... Well there would be a big uproar about it.
Don't get me wrong... I'm all for supporting the Devs. But if something is advertised and sold as exclusive, I demand to remain like that.