In CO, 750,000 Q (or Astral Diamonds in this game) is really not that much. Some costume pieces go for 45k each, while there's also weapons for vehicles that run for 200k apiece. And by doing ingame activities, the most you can earn in a single day (without doing questionable means) is 8000.
And as mentioned many, many times before, Cryptic's 'actual retail value' is nothing but a joke.
Also, in CO/STO at least, the price of one Zen to Q/Dilithium/Astral Diamond is locked between 50 and 500. Beyond that it can (and does) change constantly (by a few points up and down as the week goes on generally).
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detrimusMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited February 2013
Are we still without an official answer? This is the main reason I haven't purchased the Guardian package. The value seems... unknown.
In CO, 750,000 Q (or Astral Diamonds in this game) is really not that much. Some costume pieces go for 45k each, while there's also weapons for vehicles that run for 200k apiece. And by doing ingame activities, the most you can earn in a single day (without doing questionable means) is 8000.
.
Maybe you can answer some questions for me, or clarify things a bit.
From my understanding the value of astral diamonds to zen is going to be fixed. But what if there are not enough zen out there being sold for the min value? If the min value is 500 astral diamonds to a zen, and you get 10 zen per dollar, Then in theory you would be able to get 750k/5k or $150 worth of zen for the Hero pack. That only works though (in my understanding) if enough other players have bought $150 worth of zen.
I would imagine in CO//STO that there has to be more people making Q/Dil then spending money on zen (especially if you can make 8k a day) so what happens if nobody has zen to sell?
Also how much does real account options (honestly all I really care about) cost in those games...in terms of zen (or better yet real dollars) spent? New classes, character slots etc? That is what is the most important. They can charge whatever they want for cosmetic stuff...but the account options that let you play the actual game....that is a different story.
If you get 750k astral diamonds.....how is that going to translate as far as buying power for your account?
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ashrox10Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, SilverstarsPosts: 0Arc User
Still, hundreds of thousands is a notable sum no matter how "much" it is.
Correct, however that depends on the economy and how many people have purchased the Hero package.
That's like saying 100000 copper is a lot because the number is high, when really it's 10 gold. = Nothing.
Vuxadin@Kaelangx on Mindflayer.
PvE Enthusiast.
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tykytysMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited February 2013
Yeah, it'd feel really Weimar Germany-esque (or Zimbabwe) to have 1 dollar be equivalent to tens of thousands of astral diamonds and have a single piece of armor cost 200,000. Why not lop several zeroes off of each and make them valued appropriately? Of course, the announcement has already been made that folks get x00,000 diamonds, so saying that "oh no, you all get 750 diamonds instead" wouldn't go over well.
Say in another thread that it's actually 100 zen per dollar, not 10.
That means if you initially start off with 500 astral diamonds per zen (which makes sense based on supply and demand), then 750k diamonds is only going to be worth 1500 zen (2 zen per 1k diamonds) or $15.00 in cash.
Heck, even if you can get a rate going of 50 astral diamonds per zen, that still is only $150 in cash worth of astral diamonds. How do they get the HUGE value's for the founders packs?
I know people are saying "I'm gonna sell mine right away when they still sell for 25 astral diamonds per zen or so", but isn't that impossible until other people purchase zen and then decide to spend that zen on astral diamonds? Supply and demand should make it so the initial price is actually the worst (where you have a line of people waiting to buy zen with astral diamonds at the worst ratio), and then later on have it hopefully go down.
Oh well, no reason to worry about it now I guess.Hopefully we'll get more information eventually.
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iamdoctordeathMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited February 2013
I think they took the 'this pack is worth 550 bucks!' out of a hat.
One of my biggest problems with dishing out $200 bucks for the Hero Founders pack is that I can't find any info on the actual in game value of Astral Diamonds. I have a general understanding of what they are and how they work from my experience with STO. However, it would go a long way in helping me justify spending $200 bucks on the Founders pack if I knew:
1. What is the dollar value of 750,000 Astral Diamonds (At launch, how much would I have to pay)?
2. How much will different things cost in the MT Shop (How much is a Character Slot for example)?
I apologize if this has been answered somewhere else in the forums, I mostly just read forums and rarely post. I did not find anything using the Search feature but I may have not used it to its fullest.
Thank you,
Velaren
1) If the AD Exchange is anything like the exchange in STO, there is no set value. It is determined entirely by the playerbase and the economy's supply and demand.
Keep in mind that AD would transfer to ZEN at a much higher rate during Closed and Open Beta than it ever will when the game goes live, since any testing of the conversion would be done with free ZEN for this purpose. Once people have to trade their own ZEN for AD, the amount of AD needed to buy ZEN will increase dramatically.
2) We don't know, and we really can't use Cryptic's previous games as a great example, because there are some pricing discrepancies between CO and STO. However, if Cryptic stays true to form, we won't actually know the pricing for C-Store items until the game actually launches.
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detrimusMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited February 2013
So is it safe to assume there is no community relations present here? It doesn't seem like we're likely to get an official response.
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silvergryphMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 740Arc User
The CO Questionite and STO Dilithium Exchange are both player driven, but they do have set minimum and maximum values allowed. STO Dilithium is currently limited to 25-500 per ZEN. I believe CO is the same. If the AD Exchange has the same rate (and I could have sworn I heard it mentioned in one of the dozens of videos I've seen) then if you act quickly you may get the best rate of 25 AD per ZEN. 750,000/25=30,000 ZEN. Which, at $300, would go a long way towards justifying the HotN pack's claimed $549 value.
So is it safe to assume there is no community relations present here? It doesn't seem like we're likely to get an official response.
AD's worth is determined by the AD exchange, which is player driven.In other words there is no way to know until the game goes live. That has been stated many time, including in the last NOCS.
One thing to consider is that unlike CO and STO, Neverwinter will launch with stockpiles of Astral Diamonds already available -- namely those of players who purchased a Founder's pack. Also, big spenders will probably already have a stash of Astral Diamonds from these packs, and will likely sell rather than buy at low exchange rates.
That said, my prediction is that the exchange rate will start at 25AD/Z, jump quickly to 50AD/Z, but will slow as the rate approaches 100AD/Z since sellers will be reluctant to break that psychological barrier. Under these assumptions, the value of 750,000 Astral Diamonds will start at $300 at launch, drop quickly to $150 as more Astral Diamonds get dumped on the market, then slide more slowly to $75.
One thing to consider is that unlike CO and STO, Neverwinter will launch with stockpiles of Astral Diamonds already available -- namely those of players who purchased a Founder's pack. Also, big spenders will probably already have a stash of Astral Diamonds from these packs, and will likely sell rather than buy at low exchange rates.
That said, my prediction is that the exchange rate will start at 25AD/Z, jump quickly to 50AD/Z, but will slow as the rate approaches 100AD/Z since sellers will be reluctant to break that psychological barrier. Under these assumptions, the value of 750,000 Astral Diamonds will start at $300 at launch, drop quickly to $150 as more Astral Diamonds get dumped on the market, then slide more slowly to $75.
I doubt it would start that high - people would have to buy ZEN to exchange for AD. Unlike CO and STO, there aren't subscribers getting a ZEN stipend that can only be spent in the game (meaning, if there's nothing you want on the C-store, the ZEN is worthless to you). Every ZEN on the exchange was bought with real money, meaning that there won't be as much ZEN on the exchange in the first place. As such, people selling ZEN will likely want more AD in order to part with it. I personally predict that AD will be worth a third to a half of your numbers - $100 to $75 to $40 is my guess.
I doubt it would start that high - people would have to buy ZEN to exchange for AD. Unlike CO and STO, there aren't subscribers getting a ZEN stipend that can only be spent in the game (meaning, if there's nothing you want on the C-store, the ZEN is worthless to you). Every ZEN on the exchange was bought with real money, meaning that there won't be as much ZEN on the exchange in the first place. As such, people selling ZEN will likely want more AD in order to part with it. I personally predict that AD will be worth a third to a half of your numbers - $100 to $75 to $40 is my guess.
I actually will be surprised if supply and demand doesn't max out the rate at 500 astal diamonds per zen right from the start.
Why?
You don't really need astral diamonds at all in the early game. The game is cake then anyway, and there are so many new things to do etc (not to mention you zooming up levels so fast) that i doubt many people are going to want to pay zen for astral diamonds right away.
On the other hand, zen....is going to be in very high demand for account options (like extra character slots for instance). What is more, there are going to be plenty of players who have 125 or 750k astral diamonds that are going to want to unload them.
Problem is, you need people to spend that much money on ZEN (and spend it BUYING astral diamonds) in order for anyone to be able to sell astral diamonds at all.
So let me ask you this. If you could get 750k astral diamonds for $200 along with 3 character slots, extra race etc.....why would you even think about possibly buying astral diamonds with zen..instead of just buying a founder pack as well? It's already been stated they will be available after the launch but with a few different bonuses to replace the beta weekends.
I still "strongly" think that we should get zen instead of Astral diamonds in our founders packs (to be available only for NWO or at least not available till the game launches). I'm not talking about insane exchange rates here, but instead of 750k astral diamonds, give 500k astral diamonds and the remaining 250k is given as zen (at a ratio of 50 zen per astral diamond....or 5000 zen total. That is only a $50 dollar value mind you, but it allows you to purchase some account upgrades without having to worry about trying to convert your astral diamonds.
You'd still have plenty of astral diamonds to sell on the market etc.
So :
1000 Zen = 12$ (9€) = How many Astral Diamonds ?
Completely unknown, as that exchange rate will be set by the players, based on what they're willing to pay each other. Everything in this thread is speculation. All that is known, and even that is still subject to change, is that it will be somewhere between 50k and 500k.
So in other words, we have no way of knowing the value of the astral diamonds in the packs, therefor the value of the packs.
For all we know, it could be a really good deal, or total rip-off.
And the devs' reluctancy to reveal to us this value is not a good sign.
Equation for Finding Astral Diamonds Value. Cost for Black Horse is 800 Zen. Also, can purchase for 168,000 Astral Diamonds in Mount Merchant. 1 Zen = 210 Astral Diamonds
Note that this speculation was made before they added ADs to the packs. So his estimated value of the ADs still stands, but not his estimated value of the individual packs.
so is the 200 pack with all the AD worth it? that is all I want to know...or would it be better to spend $200 on Zen?
Currently the exchange rate is 500 AD : 1 Zen, so $200 (ie. 20000 Zen) would net you 10M AD if the prices stay stable. Note that the current rate is highly dependent on the massive amounts of AD that entered the economy through the Guardian & Hero packs. Expect the exchange rate to drop once more people join the game with Zen.
Also, be aware of the exchange rate before buying stuff on the AH. And don't be an idiot when buying lockbox keys there, any buyout/bid above 125*exchange rate is silly (the most they could ever cost if you converted the AD to Zen would be 62500 AD).
In any case, saving $60 of those for the Guardian Pack would probably be more beneficial in the long run due to the Mount and Companion costing nearly that much (both of those are account wide, companions are usually character specific).
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valtrayMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Do you realize you're asking how to get $200 to put into a F2P game? $200 is the price of like 7 PC games, 25 meals, phone and internet for a month.
Do you realise what a single game is worth to one person can be worth something completely different to another? $200 is the price someone is willing to pay for a f2p game because they enjoy it.
Common sense is hard to come by around here it seems..
Comments
In CO, 750,000 Q (or Astral Diamonds in this game) is really not that much. Some costume pieces go for 45k each, while there's also weapons for vehicles that run for 200k apiece. And by doing ingame activities, the most you can earn in a single day (without doing questionable means) is 8000.
And as mentioned many, many times before, Cryptic's 'actual retail value' is nothing but a joke.
Also, in CO/STO at least, the price of one Zen to Q/Dilithium/Astral Diamond is locked between 50 and 500. Beyond that it can (and does) change constantly (by a few points up and down as the week goes on generally).
Maybe you can answer some questions for me, or clarify things a bit.
From my understanding the value of astral diamonds to zen is going to be fixed. But what if there are not enough zen out there being sold for the min value? If the min value is 500 astral diamonds to a zen, and you get 10 zen per dollar, Then in theory you would be able to get 750k/5k or $150 worth of zen for the Hero pack. That only works though (in my understanding) if enough other players have bought $150 worth of zen.
I would imagine in CO//STO that there has to be more people making Q/Dil then spending money on zen (especially if you can make 8k a day) so what happens if nobody has zen to sell?
Also how much does real account options (honestly all I really care about) cost in those games...in terms of zen (or better yet real dollars) spent? New classes, character slots etc? That is what is the most important. They can charge whatever they want for cosmetic stuff...but the account options that let you play the actual game....that is a different story.
If you get 750k astral diamonds.....how is that going to translate as far as buying power for your account?
Correct, however that depends on the economy and how many people have purchased the Hero package.
That's like saying 100000 copper is a lot because the number is high, when really it's 10 gold. = Nothing.
PvE Enthusiast.
That means if you initially start off with 500 astral diamonds per zen (which makes sense based on supply and demand), then 750k diamonds is only going to be worth 1500 zen (2 zen per 1k diamonds) or $15.00 in cash.
Heck, even if you can get a rate going of 50 astral diamonds per zen, that still is only $150 in cash worth of astral diamonds. How do they get the HUGE value's for the founders packs?
I know people are saying "I'm gonna sell mine right away when they still sell for 25 astral diamonds per zen or so", but isn't that impossible until other people purchase zen and then decide to spend that zen on astral diamonds? Supply and demand should make it so the initial price is actually the worst (where you have a line of people waiting to buy zen with astral diamonds at the worst ratio), and then later on have it hopefully go down.
Oh well, no reason to worry about it now I guess.Hopefully we'll get more information eventually.
1) If the AD Exchange is anything like the exchange in STO, there is no set value. It is determined entirely by the playerbase and the economy's supply and demand.
Keep in mind that AD would transfer to ZEN at a much higher rate during Closed and Open Beta than it ever will when the game goes live, since any testing of the conversion would be done with free ZEN for this purpose. Once people have to trade their own ZEN for AD, the amount of AD needed to buy ZEN will increase dramatically.
2) We don't know, and we really can't use Cryptic's previous games as a great example, because there are some pricing discrepancies between CO and STO. However, if Cryptic stays true to form, we won't actually know the pricing for C-Store items until the game actually launches.
You can buy it right now at https://billing.perfectworld.com/charge . You just can't transfer it to Neverwinter yet.
The CO Questionite and STO Dilithium Exchange are both player driven, but they do have set minimum and maximum values allowed. STO Dilithium is currently limited to 25-500 per ZEN. I believe CO is the same. If the AD Exchange has the same rate (and I could have sworn I heard it mentioned in one of the dozens of videos I've seen) then if you act quickly you may get the best rate of 25 AD per ZEN. 750,000/25=30,000 ZEN. Which, at $300, would go a long way towards justifying the HotN pack's claimed $549 value.
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AD's worth is determined by the AD exchange, which is player driven.In other words there is no way to know until the game goes live. That has been stated many time, including in the last NOCS.
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That said, my prediction is that the exchange rate will start at 25AD/Z, jump quickly to 50AD/Z, but will slow as the rate approaches 100AD/Z since sellers will be reluctant to break that psychological barrier. Under these assumptions, the value of 750,000 Astral Diamonds will start at $300 at launch, drop quickly to $150 as more Astral Diamonds get dumped on the market, then slide more slowly to $75.
I doubt it would start that high - people would have to buy ZEN to exchange for AD. Unlike CO and STO, there aren't subscribers getting a ZEN stipend that can only be spent in the game (meaning, if there's nothing you want on the C-store, the ZEN is worthless to you). Every ZEN on the exchange was bought with real money, meaning that there won't be as much ZEN on the exchange in the first place. As such, people selling ZEN will likely want more AD in order to part with it. I personally predict that AD will be worth a third to a half of your numbers - $100 to $75 to $40 is my guess.
I actually will be surprised if supply and demand doesn't max out the rate at 500 astal diamonds per zen right from the start.
Why?
You don't really need astral diamonds at all in the early game. The game is cake then anyway, and there are so many new things to do etc (not to mention you zooming up levels so fast) that i doubt many people are going to want to pay zen for astral diamonds right away.
On the other hand, zen....is going to be in very high demand for account options (like extra character slots for instance). What is more, there are going to be plenty of players who have 125 or 750k astral diamonds that are going to want to unload them.
Problem is, you need people to spend that much money on ZEN (and spend it BUYING astral diamonds) in order for anyone to be able to sell astral diamonds at all.
So let me ask you this. If you could get 750k astral diamonds for $200 along with 3 character slots, extra race etc.....why would you even think about possibly buying astral diamonds with zen..instead of just buying a founder pack as well? It's already been stated they will be available after the launch but with a few different bonuses to replace the beta weekends.
I still "strongly" think that we should get zen instead of Astral diamonds in our founders packs (to be available only for NWO or at least not available till the game launches). I'm not talking about insane exchange rates here, but instead of 750k astral diamonds, give 500k astral diamonds and the remaining 250k is given as zen (at a ratio of 50 zen per astral diamond....or 5000 zen total. That is only a $50 dollar value mind you, but it allows you to purchase some account upgrades without having to worry about trying to convert your astral diamonds.
You'd still have plenty of astral diamonds to sell on the market etc.
So :
1000 Zen = 12$ (9€) = How many Astral Diamonds ?
Completely unknown, as that exchange rate will be set by the players, based on what they're willing to pay each other. Everything in this thread is speculation. All that is known, and even that is still subject to change, is that it will be somewhere between 50k and 500k.
For all we know, it could be a really good deal, or total rip-off.
And the devs' reluctancy to reveal to us this value is not a good sign.
I found another speculation here : http://guidescroll.com/2013/03/neverwinter-founder-pack-details/
Note that this speculation was made before they added ADs to the packs. So his estimated value of the ADs still stands, but not his estimated value of the individual packs.
200 bucks in Zen will buy you a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> ton of AD.
I bought $60 Guardian for mount etc and $120 Z
Ended up with 7.5m AD
Of course I got more because I bought Z on sale and bulk price bonus. And bought AD at 500-490 when it launched.
Hording now :P
Price will double in a month or so
/e: Zen prices:
€44.99 = 4,950 + 350
€27.99 = 3,080 + 220
€18.99 = 2,090 + 110
€9.99 = 1,100
€4.99 = 540
means your 600.000 AD from the Guardian pack translate to around 12 Euro with Zen bonus from larger purchases.
2 Million AD from Hero pack translate to around 36 Euro.
Also, be aware of the exchange rate before buying stuff on the AH. And don't be an idiot when buying lockbox keys there, any buyout/bid above 125*exchange rate is silly (the most they could ever cost if you converted the AD to Zen would be 62500 AD).
In any case, saving $60 of those for the Guardian Pack would probably be more beneficial in the long run due to the Mount and Companion costing nearly that much (both of those are account wide, companions are usually character specific).
And do you realize that not everyone values $200 as much as you might?