both those Range definitions are NOUNS... try the verbs. as in actions... range in actions means distant.
you can take warrior and say its a being that wages war or a soldier that fights for an army meaning that you can't do anything individual. Thieves by definition are people that steal things most avoiding fights and conflicts... meaning they have no combat skills they just steal things.
If you want to break down each of the classes I'd be happy to go on... if you want to stick to realistic meanings I could have the whole class list in a dress cooking in a kitchen. when someone says we need a range class... they mean distance not a roaming warrior. archer specifically defines using a bow to fight alone, rangers can use many weapons but specialize in weapons that support the roaming warrior which resides in the mountains which would mean they need a weapon that can hurt from the top of the mountain things that are at the bottom of the mountain... doubt they make swords that long or mountains that short.
The ranger does not comes from "Range".
Oldest definition comes from the term being ordained by Kings to select few who will walk in the forest and catch trespassers and spies. I did post it somewhere earlier - to counter ambi's arguments.
But here he is right. Ranger does not comes from range but is its own word.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited January 2013
The Ranger Class is a noun.
The verb has no meaning in reference to the ranger class (n) based off the forest/military rangers (n).
This is the oldest definition of Ranger I could find:-
the keeper of a public park or forest; formerly, a sworn officer of a forest, appointed by the king's letters patent, whose business was to walk through the forest, recover beasts that had strayed beyond its limits, watch the deer, present trespasses to the next court held for the forest ...
Ranger are keeper of public forest park - not archers.
Though most rangers are archers, archery is part of their training and bow has been their most preferred weapon replaced by guns later.
which is thinking of a title given to keepers that deal with yogi bear not a would be king that changes his name to Strider and avoids his destiny to help destroy a ring. I mean you can also say a ranger is a teenager that gains powers, wears colorful spandex with a helmet, and suddenly knows martial arts to fight monsters after they morph. How about a bearded guy that lives in Texas named Walker?
when someone measures a distance like when they fire a big cannon and gives its RANGE are they talking about a forest? when they say there is a range of possibilities does that mean they are talking about land or a officer?
range has a different meaning and the idea behind the word ranger is not that they protect but that they can fight and cover what they are given to protect. you can't do that if you can only protect where you stand. In the old days this meant either travel on horse or using a bow from a high distance of attack. a ranger with no range by definition to protect is just a guard they can not protect anything out of arms reach.
Oh Atari how I miss you!
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited January 2013
Are you arguing merely to argue?
The D&D Ranger is named for being a (solitary) person who feels more at home in the wilderness than in cities. Regardless of the MMO definition or your own personal definition I am telling you what the Dungeons and Dragons definition is.
And since we are, or will be, playing Dungeons and Dragons, Dungeons and Dragons defines what the Ranger Class is.
To end this debate, here is the link to the Wizards of the Coast Ranger Character Class.
Most players think of the ranger as an outdoorsy character who is more at home in the wilderness than in the dungeon or the city. If you want to create a rugged and self-sufficient individualist, a ranger is a fine choice. But the character can also excel in a variety of other roles, from swashbuckling ne'er-do-well to tenacious do-gooder.
Consider this case at rest because I am not debating what you define as a ranger. I am telling you what the Ranger Class is in Dungeons and Dragons. Feel free to say you prefer a ranged Ranger but your opinion of what the term "ranger" means can not throw out forty years of Dungeons and Dragons history.
The D&D Ranger is named for being a (solitary) person who feels more at home in the wilderness than in cities. Regardless of the MMO definition or your own personal definition I am telling you what the Dungeons and Dragons definition is.
And since we are, or will be, playing Dungeons and Dragons, Dungeons and Dragons defines what the Ranger Class is.
To end this debate, here is the link to the Wizards of the Coast Ranger Character Class.
Consider this case at rest because I am not debating what you define as a ranger. I am telling you what the Ranger Class is in Dungeons and Dragons. Feel free to say you prefer a ranged Ranger but your opinion of what the term "ranger" means can not throw out forty years of Dungeons and Dragons history.
every other incarnation of Dungeons and Dragons had the ranger using a BOW. even the old cartoon... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmUl4xFiITc
its own game in past and present shows rangers use bows... this and the board version it came from would be the very first that didn't have rangers as a bow user. kinda going against its own lore.
Oh Atari how I miss you!
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited January 2013
Drizzt Do'Urden - Forgotten Realms drow ranger that fights with two scimitars and worships Mielekki. Has a magical panther companion.
Ren o' the Blades - Forgotten Realms human ranger/rogue that fights with two magical daggers.
Tanis Half-Elven - Dragonlance half-elven ranger that fight primarily with a single longsword and is competent with a bow due to elven heritage. Has excellent woodslore.
Hank, the Ranger - Dungeons & Dragons cartoon series ranger. Fires a magical energy longbow. Is strong and honest.
Dove Falconhand - Forgotten Realms human ranger that worships Mystra and fights with a longsword and full plate. Has some small ability to cast magic.
Florin Falconhand - Forgotten Realms human ranger that worships Mielekki and fights with a longsword and tends to wear leather armor. Has excellent woodslore.
Can we please stop now? This is getting stupidly off topic and you can't fight the D&D Rules and Lore.
Rangers are not, by definition, archers.
EDIT - Sorry. I am not trying to be a jerk. The only thing I have done is tell you The Rules and Lore of D&D which pre-dates the modern MMO "ranger" term in the hopes you might understand that you're not talking about <Cookie Cutter MMO>.
I'm not saying we shouldn't have ranged classes. I'm not saying I don't want bows in the game. I'm not saying you shouldn't play the Ranger as a ranged class.
I am merely saying that the D&D Rangers predates the MMO Player-defined term "ranger" so it does not by any means in any D&D Rulebook imply or force archery.
so your saying that even if a ranger class is added there will be no bow use?
I'm sure there will be a ranged ranger option eventually (there is in 4th edition, after all), as well as a melee ranger option. Maybe even a skirmishing mixture of the two. When that will be, however, is anyone's guess. Maybe at launch, but maybe not.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited January 2013
Ok, I guess I confused you a bit, sorry.
I don't know whether the Ranger will be able to use the bow or not when it's released. I really hope it can!
We haven't been informed either way.
I merely said that the Ranger is not by definition an archer. The Rangers in D&D aren't bound to ranged weaponry, they simply get different 'survival' attributes. Imagine a navy seal with bows and swords. That's the Ranger.
They can choose to use bows in Pen and Paper. Many do.
But another common build for the ranger is called the Two Weapon Fighter.
And in PnP, although it has died off largely with 4th Edition Rules there are builds for a Great Weapon (Two Handed) Ranger and Sword and Shield Ranger (I believe).
The only thing I said, and have repeated countless times in this thread and others, is that Rangers in D&D aren't a bow and arrow only class. It's something the average MMOer mistakes due to the naming of the class.
Who cares about the ranger? What we need is a monk! We have warriors and we have rogues so both the melee and the ranged attacks are covered. What we need is a mobile fist fighting monster.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited January 2013
Sadly this isn't 3/3.5
If it was I'd say 'who needs other classes when you have the monk?'
Another MMO has a class similar to a monk. They joked when they released him he was...
'A ranged, melee, tanky dps, mage, tank, support, jungler-he excells at everything!'
That's the 3/3.5 monks...boy will I miss being a god in D&D
If it was I'd say 'who needs other classes when you have the monk?'
Another MMO has a class similar to a monk. They joked when they released him he was...
'A ranged, melee, tanky dps, mage, tank, support, jungler-he excells at everything!'
That's the 3/3.5 monks...boy will I miss being a god in D&D
sounds like the monk class back in they days of Dark Age of Camelot that could go down to the lowest level of Darkness falls and solo the prince by himself.
Oh Atari how I miss you!
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denkasaebaMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I've never played 4E, but having played D&D for almost thirty years now I can tell you that rangers have changed a great deal. There was a time when they could wear full plate and cast magic-user spells. In 2E they started making the transition to a "Drizzt" model for rangers and by 3E they came to the realization that a lot of people wanted to customize their rangers and not play Drizzt clones. In most versions, though, a fighter who was designed as an archer was a better archer than a ranger was.
As for DDO...Eberron was horrid. I couldn't really get into that game. =/
I am, however, very interested in checking out Neverwinter. I don't like the 4E rule set, but I will readily admit that it converts over to a MMO/CRPG format much easier than the previous editions did.
Remember how friggin' mega powered Ranger's are/were in 1st edition? Ridiculous!
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jaffrojonesMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
That's perfectly fine. I prefer melee (as far as the Ranger Class goes) and I'm fine with that.
I'm not fine with saying because "ranger" became the MMO term for "archer" that the Ranger Class is an Archer.
It can be. Often is. Doesn't have to be.
Every time somebody says it a Drizzt Wannabe dies. *claps and chants 'I do believe in Drizzt, I do believe in Drizzt'*
From AD&D 1st edition by way of Wikipedia ...
"The ranger was one of the standard character classes available in the original Player's Handbook.[5] The first edition rangers were a subtype of the fighters,[6] using any weapon and wearing any armor, but they gained extra attacks at a slower rate than fighters and paladins. Unlike other warriors, the ranger used d8 hit dice instead of d10s, but had a second hit die at 1st level and maxed out at 11 hit dice instead of nine. Rangers also had extensive tracking abilities, based on a percentage score, and were able to surprise opponents on a roll of 1–3 on a d6 (rather than a 1–2) while they themselves could only be surprised on a 1. Rangers also gained limited spell use at level 8, acquiring 1st–3rd level druid spells and 1st and 2nd level magic-user spells (two per level maximum). Rangers were most effective when fighting giants and humanoids (such as orcs), gaining a +1 to damage per level against these opponents."
+1. exactly how it felt to me. Monks in 4e are awesome - finally done right.
Yeah, kinda... they are good, but not actually "strikers". Martial classes really overshadows them, unfortunately. But, nonetheless, they work and they're fluffy.
Dilige, et quod vis fac (Love, and do what you will)
St. Augustinus
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iamtruthseekerMember, Moonstars, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I always play rangers in every game and hope they are in this game.
Maybe a Artificer class? pet and crossbow would be awesome.
Melee (and not Missile) Rangers will not be in at release but sometime after launch. The known 5 classes at launch are: Devoted Cleric Guardian Fighter, Great Weapon Fighter, Trickster Rogue and Control Wizard.
That is ALL.
This topic about rangers is now moving on here. I don't care if you use the pluperfect tense while firing a crossbow and longbow, and swinging a longsword and shortsword at once. The class is NOT being released at launch. It was asked what classes will be added, and now people are bickering on if a game means we use a bow or not or who misspelled druid or not. So we're done with rangers and this petty responding for now.
If we have arguments on that again, it will be edited out or the thread may itself be closed if the bickering cannot be culled. Sorry, but this went on long enough.
And thank you for the last two posts NOT being about that.
I expressed an opinion on Druids in comparison to Monks in the form of a joke. Those last two posts were part of the same line of discussion.
Read complete sentence,
...and now people are bickering on if a game means we use a bow or not or who misspelled druid or not...
dont quote it out of context,
What he says is that "people are arguing over things like if the game means we use a bow, or on druid's spelling and not on main topic which is about classes"
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jim1771Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited January 2013
I will suck out your soul!
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jim1771Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Melee (and not Missile) Rangers will not be in at release but sometime after launch. The known 5 classes at launch are: Devoted Cleric Guardian Fighter, Great Weapon Fighter, Trickster Rogue and Control Wizard.
That is ALL.
This topic about rangers is now moving on here. I don't care if you use the pluperfect tense while firing a crossbow and longbow, and swinging a longsword and shortsword at once. The class is NOT being released at launch. It was asked what classes will be added, and now people are bickering on if a game means we use a bow or not or who misspelled druid or not. So we're done with rangers and this petty responding for now.
If we have arguments on that again, it will be edited out or the thread may itself be closed if the bickering cannot be culled. Sorry, but this went on long enough.
And thank you for the last two posts NOT being about that.
Epic Fail! Ranger is a key starting class and it says a lot about Cryptic and the game if Ranger is not in at launch.
I didn't quote out of context. That's why I used a [...]. I was responding to the part about "misspelled druid", not the rest. I'm not disputing whether or not the discussion on Ranger was "bickering". That's why I left out the part about Rangers.
What he says is that "people are arguing over things like if the game means we use a bow, or on druid's spelling and not on main topic which is about classes"
I fully understand what was meant. But as far as I know, noone is arguing over the spelling of Druid. My post on Druids was about classes.
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jim1771Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Epic Fail! Ranger is a key starting class and it says a lot about Cryptic and the game if Ranger is not in at launch.
they never said ranger will be in at launch. It is in the works.
You are ready to play a bugged bad ranger instead of it being done right a few months after launch? Then no, I can't agree with you. They should not let impatience destroy the game. That in itself says a lot about cryptic, all good things.
they never said ranger will be in at launch. It is in the works.
You are ready to play a bugged bad ranger instead of it being done right a few months after launch? Then no, I can't agree with you. They should not let impatience destroy the game. That in itself says a lot about cryptic, all good things.
PFfffffftttt.... I have one word to say - Druid.
I'd much rather play a well polished kick HAMSTER Ranger..ranged one to boot. I don't mind waiting for the full blown drizzt takeover.
Comments
The ranger does not comes from "Range".
Oldest definition comes from the term being ordained by Kings to select few who will walk in the forest and catch trespassers and spies. I did post it somewhere earlier - to counter ambi's arguments.
But here he is right. Ranger does not comes from range but is its own word.
The verb has no meaning in reference to the ranger class (n) based off the forest/military rangers (n).
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?26871-Archer-Ranger-vs-Two-Blade-Ranger&p=472261&viewfull=1#post472261
Ranger are keeper of public forest park - not archers.
Though most rangers are archers, archery is part of their training and bow has been their most preferred weapon replaced by guns later.
which is thinking of a title given to keepers that deal with yogi bear not a would be king that changes his name to Strider and avoids his destiny to help destroy a ring. I mean you can also say a ranger is a teenager that gains powers, wears colorful spandex with a helmet, and suddenly knows martial arts to fight monsters after they morph. How about a bearded guy that lives in Texas named Walker?
when someone measures a distance like when they fire a big cannon and gives its RANGE are they talking about a forest? when they say there is a range of possibilities does that mean they are talking about land or a officer?
range has a different meaning and the idea behind the word ranger is not that they protect but that they can fight and cover what they are given to protect. you can't do that if you can only protect where you stand. In the old days this meant either travel on horse or using a bow from a high distance of attack. a ranger with no range by definition to protect is just a guard they can not protect anything out of arms reach.
The D&D Ranger is named for being a (solitary) person who feels more at home in the wilderness than in cities. Regardless of the MMO definition or your own personal definition I am telling you what the Dungeons and Dragons definition is.
And since we are, or will be, playing Dungeons and Dragons, Dungeons and Dragons defines what the Ranger Class is.
To end this debate, here is the link to the Wizards of the Coast Ranger Character Class.
Consider this case at rest because I am not debating what you define as a ranger. I am telling you what the Ranger Class is in Dungeons and Dragons. Feel free to say you prefer a ranged Ranger but your opinion of what the term "ranger" means can not throw out forty years of Dungeons and Dragons history.
every other incarnation of Dungeons and Dragons had the ranger using a BOW. even the old cartoon...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmUl4xFiITc
its own game in past and present shows rangers use bows... this and the board version it came from would be the very first that didn't have rangers as a bow user. kinda going against its own lore.
Ren o' the Blades - Forgotten Realms human ranger/rogue that fights with two magical daggers.
Tanis Half-Elven - Dragonlance half-elven ranger that fight primarily with a single longsword and is competent with a bow due to elven heritage. Has excellent woodslore.
Hank, the Ranger - Dungeons & Dragons cartoon series ranger. Fires a magical energy longbow. Is strong and honest.
Dove Falconhand - Forgotten Realms human ranger that worships Mystra and fights with a longsword and full plate. Has some small ability to cast magic.
Florin Falconhand - Forgotten Realms human ranger that worships Mielekki and fights with a longsword and tends to wear leather armor. Has excellent woodslore.
Can we please stop now? This is getting stupidly off topic and you can't fight the D&D Rules and Lore.
Rangers are not, by definition, archers.
EDIT - Sorry. I am not trying to be a jerk. The only thing I have done is tell you The Rules and Lore of D&D which pre-dates the modern MMO "ranger" term in the hopes you might understand that you're not talking about <Cookie Cutter MMO>.
I'm not saying we shouldn't have ranged classes. I'm not saying I don't want bows in the game. I'm not saying you shouldn't play the Ranger as a ranged class.
I am merely saying that the D&D Rangers predates the MMO Player-defined term "ranger" so it does not by any means in any D&D Rulebook imply or force archery.
I don't know whether the Ranger will be able to use the bow or not when it's released. I really hope it can!
We haven't been informed either way.
I merely said that the Ranger is not by definition an archer. The Rangers in D&D aren't bound to ranged weaponry, they simply get different 'survival' attributes. Imagine a navy seal with bows and swords. That's the Ranger.
They can choose to use bows in Pen and Paper. Many do.
But another common build for the ranger is called the Two Weapon Fighter.
And in PnP, although it has died off largely with 4th Edition Rules there are builds for a Great Weapon (Two Handed) Ranger and Sword and Shield Ranger (I believe).
The only thing I said, and have repeated countless times in this thread and others, is that Rangers in D&D aren't a bow and arrow only class. It's something the average MMOer mistakes due to the naming of the class.
If it was I'd say 'who needs other classes when you have the monk?'
Another MMO has a class similar to a monk. They joked when they released him he was...
'A ranged, melee, tanky dps, mage, tank, support, jungler-he excells at everything!'
That's the 3/3.5 monks...boy will I miss being a god in D&D
I think you misspelled "Druid".
Are we talking about the same game? There was a reason why 3.5 was called Cleric-or-Druid-zilla... CoDzilla
St. Augustinus
Remember how friggin' mega powered Ranger's are/were in 1st edition? Ridiculous!
From AD&D 1st edition by way of Wikipedia ...
"The ranger was one of the standard character classes available in the original Player's Handbook.[5] The first edition rangers were a subtype of the fighters,[6] using any weapon and wearing any armor, but they gained extra attacks at a slower rate than fighters and paladins. Unlike other warriors, the ranger used d8 hit dice instead of d10s, but had a second hit die at 1st level and maxed out at 11 hit dice instead of nine. Rangers also had extensive tracking abilities, based on a percentage score, and were able to surprise opponents on a roll of 1–3 on a d6 (rather than a 1–2) while they themselves could only be surprised on a 1. Rangers also gained limited spell use at level 8, acquiring 1st–3rd level druid spells and 1st and 2nd level magic-user spells (two per level maximum). Rangers were most effective when fighting giants and humanoids (such as orcs), gaining a +1 to damage per level against these opponents."
Nothing about ranged weapons in there.
+1. exactly how it felt to me. Monks in 4e are awesome - finally done right.
Yeah, kinda... they are good, but not actually "strikers". Martial classes really overshadows them, unfortunately. But, nonetheless, they work and they're fluffy.
St. Augustinus
Melee (and not Missile) Rangers will not be in at release but sometime after launch. The known 5 classes at launch are: Devoted Cleric Guardian Fighter, Great Weapon Fighter, Trickster Rogue and Control Wizard.
That is ALL.
This topic about rangers is now moving on here. I don't care if you use the pluperfect tense while firing a crossbow and longbow, and swinging a longsword and shortsword at once. The class is NOT being released at launch. It was asked what classes will be added, and now people are bickering on if a game means we use a bow or not or who misspelled druid or not. So we're done with rangers and this petty responding for now.
If we have arguments on that again, it will be edited out or the thread may itself be closed if the bickering cannot be culled. Sorry, but this went on long enough.
And thank you for the last two posts NOT being about that.
What bickering?
I expressed an opinion on Druids in comparison to Monks in the form of a joke. Those last two posts were part of the same line of discussion.
Read complete sentence,
dont quote it out of context,
What he says is that "people are arguing over things like if the game means we use a bow, or on druid's spelling and not on main topic which is about classes"
I will suck out your soul!
**This just in...Rangers will cost $100.50 in cash shop**
I didn't quote out of context. That's why I used a [...]. I was responding to the part about "misspelled druid", not the rest. I'm not disputing whether or not the discussion on Ranger was "bickering". That's why I left out the part about Rangers.
I fully understand what was meant. But as far as I know, noone is arguing over the spelling of Druid. My post on Druids was about classes.
they never said ranger will be in at launch. It is in the works.
You are ready to play a bugged bad ranger instead of it being done right a few months after launch? Then no, I can't agree with you. They should not let impatience destroy the game. That in itself says a lot about cryptic, all good things.
PFfffffftttt.... I have one word to say - Druid.
I'd much rather play a well polished kick HAMSTER Ranger..ranged one to boot. I don't mind waiting for the full blown drizzt takeover.