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Henchmen
ranncore
Member, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 2,508
Henchmen have been an integral part of every single player Dungeons and Dragons game I ever played. They were fully fleshed out characters, with captivating and witty dialogue, their own agendas and quests. It was hard to decide between which ones I wanted, not because of their powers, but because of who's company I preferred.
That being said, I despise Henchmen in just about every MMO I've ever played. They're bland, nondescript, and disconnected, and out of place. They're just placeholders for what SHOULD be a real person in a group.
So I'm wondering what Henchment will be like in this game. Just a tool to use so you don't have to group? Or will they have personality? Will they level up with us? Will we be able to equip them with custom gear? Choose their powers? Will we be able to control their every move, or will they just have a few settings?
That being said, I despise Henchmen in just about every MMO I've ever played. They're bland, nondescript, and disconnected, and out of place. They're just placeholders for what SHOULD be a real person in a group.
So I'm wondering what Henchment will be like in this game. Just a tool to use so you don't have to group? Or will they have personality? Will they level up with us? Will we be able to equip them with custom gear? Choose their powers? Will we be able to control their every move, or will they just have a few settings?
Post edited by Unknown User on
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How much will you pay for it?
EDIT:
i.e. Make an alt as a henchman for another alt.
Whatever that means.
I quote: link
I think for RP purposes, it is a nice idea. till good if they block levelling or something from the alt during times when he/she is henchman.
EDIT:
Mandatory disclaimer
Also, again that thread was not by me, nor this idea. They were by other people.
You could not have the alt not level or you would end up with a weak henchmen, unless the alt became the level of the main until used as the main.
Or, and I think more likely, you could meet them as you level probably via special solo quests where you group up with them for their aid then they offer to join you, possible have more than 1, also would make some prehaps difficult choices later on. Accept new henchman over that one you leveled with?
Great idea none the less.
I like how originally DDO was a very group focused game. Then came the solo difficulty so one can experience an quest, then can the god awful henchmen with the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> AI. While it does come in handy at times to fill that healer slot since no one likes playing a healer or how those that can heal tend to forget that they need to play their class and you know... actually heal someone. Mostly I despise the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> AIs, that has always been an issue for me.
Henchmen or companions serve no purpose in MMOs imo as they detract from the multiplayer and people become more isolated. Case n point, SWTOR.
In PnP you had one char that you controlled and the rest were other players and the DM. You were not in control of a whole party. That belongs in games like BG or DA and not in MMOs like NW.
Yes except that henchmen was so counterintuitive and were used in completely the wrong manner that ANet decided to not do henchmen in GW2. Henchmen were causing players to become solo on everything which was not their intention.
I really hope they have henchmen and companions/pets, and I hope they have some personality.
Besides, why should a MMO tell players they are not welcome if you don't want to group with people you don't know? Why should they leave out the solo'ist? That makes no sense to me. If you want to group, then group. But if somebody prefers not to group, then well, let them play too, who are they hurting? I for one prefer not to "Solo", but I still see a huge benefit to henchmen! I mean the same can be said for roleplayers. Don't leave them out just because they prefer to play the game differently than some others do. Nobody is forcing anybody to play with any other person.
My 2 cents.
Well i might have confused henchmen with companion
Hell I only wish I could create my own co workers
I respectfully disagree with this sentiment. MMOs do not mean forcing all players to group, they are merely a world full of other players, adding the opportunity to both group and go solo in a world populated by real people. Companions do not make grouping less attractive, they make solo combat more interesting. A good group will never be a replacement for an AI companion, especially if the AI is as primitive as the bridge officers in STO.
IMO companions add another layer of character development to the game which is always a welcomed addition in my book.
I think in henchmen do detract from group play, but I also see their appeal. I think that they offer an opportunity to add another element to the game, but that's an opportunity a lot of developers miss out on. If you are going to have them - have them detracting from group play - you might as well have them adding another layer of gameplay. We can see what they add to games looking at single player DnD titles of the past, like BG1 and 2, and the NwN series that this game is the spiritual successor to. In other titles, we can see how they've done nothing but detract from group play - I don't think anyone who ever played DDO talked about how much they enjoyed the witty dialogue of their hirelings.
I think it's a moot point to argue whether or not henchmen are healthy for the game, or whether they should be there or not - because it's obvious they ARE going to be there - but there are certainly things that can make them much more interesting to be around.
For instance, in BG2, I would often make multiplayer games so that I could create custom characters to fill my party slots. But I never made too many, because the crafted dialogue responses from the existing characters were so damn fun most the time.
I hope the henchmen in Neverwinter Online are just as interesting to be around as those from the games which have led us to this point. If they're going to have henchmen - and they are going to - I'd like to see them done right. It's going to take more than a functional AI, gear and statistics to make Henchmen appealing to me.
My main reason for not having henchmen in an MMO is not the general "it detracts from grouping up with other players" but more along the lines of "Another character to gear out and I dont eveen get to play as that one". Having the extra DPS or Heals in solo play will help out but when things are dropping for my companion or are "companion only" then it is taking loot away from me or my friends.
TLDR:
Im greedy give me mah lewts!!
I'm not sure what your point is here, as this sentence contradicts itself. How does the companions in DDO being bad/annoying lead to people preferring them over groups? I would think it would do just the opposite.
The only case I could see companions stopping me from joining a group is if they allowed me to get through content I wouldn't be able to get through without a group. Even then, I have to choose between taking a dumb AI companion or try to get a PuG together, which could have mixed results. I'm going to choose whatever is more fun with less hassle. I almost always prefer to group with friends, but sometimes they're not online when I need a group, so companions offer an alternative to just logging off and giving up.
So I guess I answered my own question there. Companions might detract from group play some of the time, but they only seem to detract from the not-fun parts of group play. I see it as a positive addition overall.
And that's where I'm agreeing with you, but what I'm saying is that companions should be more than a placeholder for a real person. They're much more interesting when they have their own personalities and sidequests, and gear that I can customize. I think SWTOR and GW1 took it a little too far.
DDO is a complex game... almost like a human being. Very hard to understand with common logic.
"Henchmen are essentially AI companions that will fight alongside you. There will be a nice variety of henchmen and pets at launch that have a wide range of abilities. Some will heal you, some will tank for you, some will do some heavy damage, others are just quirky and interesting. Your henchmen will also level with you, and you can augment their abilities with enchantments and gear as well as change their appearance.
You can use them pretty much everywhere except for team instances. I'm not sure if they will be used in PvP or not, but I know they were testing companions in PvP before the holiday break (they do their wrap-up meetings right outside my office, it's cool)
They're mostly useful for soloing. I loved having my fighter do some tanking for me while I was leveling my Control Wizard."
What he's saying isn't contradictory IMO.
Here he's referencing how in other MMO's, companions have somehow detracted from group play. I believe he's implying that companions are effective enough in combat situations to fill the roll that a fellow player might otherwise be required for.
Here he's talking about how companions in other MMO games did not have good dialogue. Unless I'm wrong in what he's implying, there's no contradiction.
As to the topic at hand, I find companions overall to be a very, very welcome addition to any game. I prefer companions you don't create if they have unique personalities and dialogue (Baldur's Gate 1/2, Dragon age 1/2, Mass effect 1/2/3) over companions you have to design yourself (Icewind Dale 1/2, Star Trek Online). However, if the developer can't put enough time in to add a good amount of dialogue, then I'd rather just go with create your own party.
The nice thing about companions that the developers create is that it gives you way more options in the future. Diablo 3 is a good example. Your party (the Blacksmith/Jeweler, and then the Enchantress/Templar/Rogue) have some very interesting tales. They did it just right in Diablo 3, they left your companion's stories unfinished and now I'm excited to see if they'll revisit that in a future expansion. In fact, that's pretty much what I'm most interested in for an expansion in that game. I got pretty attached to those guys during the 4 playthroughs of Diablo 3 I did solo, and having them there not only made me enjoy the game way more, it made me far more interested in future content.
But, either way, companions are very important to me personally. I enjoy MMO's because when and only when I'm in the mood I can group up with others. I understand that we need to make it required to group up for things like raids, but other than that I feel it's better overall if we allow people to choose their own playstyle. Sometimes I want to go play with others, sometimes I'd rather just go solo so I don't have to deal with other people.
Bingo!
On both sides of the fence forced anything sucks (forced grouping forced henchmen) and today's player will just walk away...I'm pretty sure we all remember what a huge <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> failure the whole DDO friends don't let friends adventure alone campaign was, and honestly the folks who are screaming for forced grouping today are the vast minority. I love playing with my friends and meeting new people, but only because I choose to, force me to and I'll give the game the finger and go elsewhere.
You're cruel
Reminds me of this.