The grind I refer to in STO is not foundry related, but rather, how they have chosen to deploy the last two seasons' content. Season 6 added starbases, which allow fleets (aka Guilds) the means of having their members work together contributing towards goals that advance the development of the base and the availability of features. Essentially, for an average-sized fleet, you're looling at months of effort for what many feel is a minimal reward.
Season 7 introduced New Romulus, a reputation farming zone that while big and loaded with repeatable support missions also was designed to require extensive time investment for again what is generally considered to be minimal effort. there are five tiers to progess, each one has a plot-oriented mission, very similar to how they used to handle featured Episode series. Casual players will likely take months playing through all of it. Season 7 feels more satisfying to me because there is actual mission content that advances the plot, even as I advance through the reputation progression. But earning the Romulan Marks to advance in reputation constitutes massive amounts of repetitive grinding of the same dailies over and over.
So I hope that there is more of an emphasis on regular official quest delivery than just a bunch of repeatable fetch-it tasks...
When Neverwinter was announced as a co-op RPG that was to be foundry-driven instead of the full MMO it is actually going to be, I would not have minded the foundry carrying the game in terms of quest content. When STO was about to get the foundry, Cryptic gave us assurances that the foundry would not be cryptic's way of pawning mission development off on the players, and that if anything, official content development would increase. Well, not only did official content development decrease, but the foundry has pretty much become exactly what they said it would not be. Season 7 was the most official content the game has received in a single update since the game launched. But for a lot of people it is too grindy, and while more people are trying out the Foundry than before, many are not doing it for the stories the Foundry authors are telling, but for the sake of getting the dilithium rewards which they need for the grindfests known as Seasons 6 and 7.
I really do not want to see the work of Neverwinter's foundry authors marginalized by the desire of the majority to just be able to grab rewards, and I also don't want to see the weight of quest content delivery resting primarily on the shoulders of Foundry authors. I would like to see Cryptic actually keep their core campaign rolling forward and let foundry quest be suplemental
I'm not really a John Galt,
but I play one on the forums...
:P
0
ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited January 2013
Most of my post was delagated to the fact grinds, once implemented, are hard to remove or decide to stop without hurting the existing player base.
Furthermore, we come at conflicting points of view concerning The Foundry. As a D&D Player and an avid player of Neverwinter Nights I would have NO issue if Cryptic never made another quest after release as long as they spent every second of quest development in improving The Foundry Features.
I don't have any problem, whatsoever, with Cryptic using UGC to keep players entertained as long as they continue to support UGC Devs in response. After years of playing NWN I have full faith Player Developers can create content which makes anything any Game Company creates look like something from the trash heap.
If it wasn't for The Toolset Neverwinter Nights would have been a commercial success...but ultimately would have been a forgettable game.
EDIT - And now I'm realizing just how off topic this thread has become. Let's get back to how everything would effect the Auction House. Sadly I can't think of a single way to relate the last page or so of posts to the Auction House so let's simply drop any topic of grinding and such.
turokhammerstoneMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, SilverstarsPosts: 0Arc User
edited February 2013
The AH has to play a delicate balance with other in game revenue such as gathering and crafting. If it takes a player 4 hours of game time to gather enough material to create +1 Sword of uberness only to have a +2 sword of uberness in the AH that you can buy for the time it takes to complete 3 quick quests and vendor all of the drops and add a little loose change hanging from your belt then it will kill the crafting.
One affects the other. If you can buy better equipment for less time and gold than it take to craft something it all but destroys the need for crafting. The same can be said the other way around. If crafting is so profitable then it becomes a grind to just get enough money to buy something from the over-priced crafters.
A balance has to be struck where there are items only crafters can make that will greatly improve your odds of surviving a dungeon delve but cheaper alternatives that may not be as "perfect" for a certain aspect of the game. Maybe crafters will be the only ones that can create "Dark Steel". Lets just say it has a vampiric effect. But, they cannot create "Bright Steel". Lets just say it has a regen effect. Different classes will have different needs. Maybe the rogue will want the dark steel for a RP style or the on hit effect gives him/her health back. Now a wizard will not have the on hit melee affect so the Bright Steel would be a better fit. In game you will rarely if ever get a Dark Steel item as a drop. This way they have a demand for one item and the AH provides the supply for the other. Both systems get a little love.
Maybe I am looking at it wrong. I just trying to say that both tools are needed in game. The crafters have to have a demand and the AH needs to be able to satisfy the community's need. The community usually sets the price based on supply and demand.
Comments
The grind I refer to in STO is not foundry related, but rather, how they have chosen to deploy the last two seasons' content. Season 6 added starbases, which allow fleets (aka Guilds) the means of having their members work together contributing towards goals that advance the development of the base and the availability of features. Essentially, for an average-sized fleet, you're looling at months of effort for what many feel is a minimal reward.
Season 7 introduced New Romulus, a reputation farming zone that while big and loaded with repeatable support missions also was designed to require extensive time investment for again what is generally considered to be minimal effort. there are five tiers to progess, each one has a plot-oriented mission, very similar to how they used to handle featured Episode series. Casual players will likely take months playing through all of it. Season 7 feels more satisfying to me because there is actual mission content that advances the plot, even as I advance through the reputation progression. But earning the Romulan Marks to advance in reputation constitutes massive amounts of repetitive grinding of the same dailies over and over.
So I hope that there is more of an emphasis on regular official quest delivery than just a bunch of repeatable fetch-it tasks...
When Neverwinter was announced as a co-op RPG that was to be foundry-driven instead of the full MMO it is actually going to be, I would not have minded the foundry carrying the game in terms of quest content. When STO was about to get the foundry, Cryptic gave us assurances that the foundry would not be cryptic's way of pawning mission development off on the players, and that if anything, official content development would increase. Well, not only did official content development decrease, but the foundry has pretty much become exactly what they said it would not be. Season 7 was the most official content the game has received in a single update since the game launched. But for a lot of people it is too grindy, and while more people are trying out the Foundry than before, many are not doing it for the stories the Foundry authors are telling, but for the sake of getting the dilithium rewards which they need for the grindfests known as Seasons 6 and 7.
I really do not want to see the work of Neverwinter's foundry authors marginalized by the desire of the majority to just be able to grab rewards, and I also don't want to see the weight of quest content delivery resting primarily on the shoulders of Foundry authors. I would like to see Cryptic actually keep their core campaign rolling forward and let foundry quest be suplemental
but I play one on the forums...
:P
Furthermore, we come at conflicting points of view concerning The Foundry. As a D&D Player and an avid player of Neverwinter Nights I would have NO issue if Cryptic never made another quest after release as long as they spent every second of quest development in improving The Foundry Features.
I don't have any problem, whatsoever, with Cryptic using UGC to keep players entertained as long as they continue to support UGC Devs in response. After years of playing NWN I have full faith Player Developers can create content which makes anything any Game Company creates look like something from the trash heap.
If it wasn't for The Toolset Neverwinter Nights would have been a commercial success...but ultimately would have been a forgettable game.
EDIT - And now I'm realizing just how off topic this thread has become. Let's get back to how everything would effect the Auction House. Sadly I can't think of a single way to relate the last page or so of posts to the Auction House so let's simply drop any topic of grinding and such.
One affects the other. If you can buy better equipment for less time and gold than it take to craft something it all but destroys the need for crafting. The same can be said the other way around. If crafting is so profitable then it becomes a grind to just get enough money to buy something from the over-priced crafters.
A balance has to be struck where there are items only crafters can make that will greatly improve your odds of surviving a dungeon delve but cheaper alternatives that may not be as "perfect" for a certain aspect of the game. Maybe crafters will be the only ones that can create "Dark Steel". Lets just say it has a vampiric effect. But, they cannot create "Bright Steel". Lets just say it has a regen effect. Different classes will have different needs. Maybe the rogue will want the dark steel for a RP style or the on hit effect gives him/her health back. Now a wizard will not have the on hit melee affect so the Bright Steel would be a better fit. In game you will rarely if ever get a Dark Steel item as a drop. This way they have a demand for one item and the AH provides the supply for the other. Both systems get a little love.
Maybe I am looking at it wrong. I just trying to say that both tools are needed in game. The crafters have to have a demand and the AH needs to be able to satisfy the community's need. The community usually sets the price based on supply and demand.