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No Deity Option
enderlin50
Member Posts: 993 Arc User
I played Neverwinter Nights and Neverwinter Nights 2(well aware this game has no part of the previous titles). Love the ability to really get into the character creation. Ive read dozens of Forgotten Realms books and the deeper the character is the more you can really get out of him/her. I played EQ1 when it was fairly new and loved how you could chose a Deity. Even for a none Divine class its still very cool from a Roleplaying standpoint. Look at Wulfgar.. An iconic FR character who isnt Divine but clearly has a Deity.
The commnity is now fully aware we aren't choosing from 3 faces and that we do not have an option for Deities. With a 4E ruleset and Forgotten Realms new Sundering on the way there is a lot of potential loss by not being able to choose a God for your class. We are hinted about Dread Rings and Thay. I just finished reading the Haunted Lands Trilogy and 100% know what this story is referencing to.
I guess this thread is mainly a rant. Would have loved a Rogue of Mask or an Avenger of Lathander... but alas we are just choosing how we look and point and click after that. Your divine option is something your can probably type into a Notepad style portion of your character's BIO =(
The commnity is now fully aware we aren't choosing from 3 faces and that we do not have an option for Deities. With a 4E ruleset and Forgotten Realms new Sundering on the way there is a lot of potential loss by not being able to choose a God for your class. We are hinted about Dread Rings and Thay. I just finished reading the Haunted Lands Trilogy and 100% know what this story is referencing to.
I guess this thread is mainly a rant. Would have loved a Rogue of Mask or an Avenger of Lathander... but alas we are just choosing how we look and point and click after that. Your divine option is something your can probably type into a Notepad style portion of your character's BIO =(
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Mask is Dead back in 2007 in Edition 3.5, so there was no chance ever of him being in 4E.
Lathander was revealed as rumored earlier to be an aspect of Amaunator and IS in the 4th edition as Amaunator. There is even a Paragon path for followers of Lathander. One of my good friends plays a priest of one starting way back in 2nd ed in sanctioned D&D play so I speak with expertise from the many many many years playing together.
As for this game, how do you know you don't choose a deity at character creation?
Do you have this in an interview or quote anywhere?
Do you have details about any so-called "we aren't choosing from 3 Faces?" That sentence actually isn't clear at all, let alone the community has said this.
But, the community being "fully aware," and I just happen to be a Community Moderator, by all means, please provide the links, and we'll be glad to support your vent, and I'll update my FAQ with the evidence.
But if you don't have actual proof, and this is what you fear, please post it in this thread. Thanks.
In real life, I am a Christian. Compared to others, my faith does not give me "stat buffs". I still remain human and my base stats are the same. So what is the point to choosing a Deity in a game? A means to get some stat bonuses? How about this. What are the qualities of followers of whatever deity you want your character to also follow? If you know the answer to that question, ROLEPLAY your character as conforming to those qualities. The game does not have to hand you everything by adjusting stats through buffs and debuffs. Back in the day when I used to have time to do the PnP RPG thing, My character was what I defined him as by my choices, far more than by his stats.
RPG stands for ROLE playing game, not ROLL playing game.
but I play one on the forums...
:P
I agree with you.
Anyone still searching for guilds you can check out HCG Hardcore Christian Gamers.
NW FAQ | HCG NW Host Site
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Step 2, Put 'Me' in Diety slot
Step 3, do "miracles" in highly public areas
step 4, gather followers devoted to you (the Leadership feat helps with this)
Step 5, Ask your DM if since you have followers you can have divine rank 0 or if you feel really ballsy 1
Step 6, Enjoy all the benefits associated...but try not to step on other dieties toes.
but I play one on the forums...
:P
Almost all the factions in the Setting are also rooted in the Gods and their will and mischief. I didn't miss not having a religion selection in Eberron (DDO), simply because both I am not as familiar with the Setting as I am with the Realms, and two their Gods are not as active in the affairs of Mortals as the Gods are in the Realms. As an MMO, I will surely be longing for the element of the Gods in my beloved and glorious Forgotten Realms. Indeed.
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Because having the planes and special powers gives your character a better feel for their faith.,,, well not all about it but it certainly augments it considerably. And really it's not precisely "stat buffs," take a cleric of Tempus. The had some early access to spells and to a few mage spells depending on the spheres they chose in 3.5e or Neverwinter Nights 2. Nothing out of the ordinary but allowed access to spells that provided a better feel for a follower of whatever diety.
In 4e one had powers that really brought that feel about. If your a cleric of Tempus then one should have access to powers that bring about a battle priest feel.
I agree with the general sentiment in life but religion in D&D is very crude. Getting things like powers and enhancements from capricious gods is a part of the mythos of D&D. I'm not sure I would want to elevate D&D religion beyond that since it wouldn't deserve it. There's still room for a character to roleplay within the confines of a religious order.
This is where having a temple or otherwise tangible expression of lore-specific religion comes in. Access to those powers could come from roleplayed devotion to the deity. You wouldn't just automatically get the powers or buffs. You'd have to do something to earn them. Be it donating to the temple or undertaking a quest on the temple's behalf. That's an area where dailies would factor into the game. It should not be something long and drawn out. And you shouldn't have to travel to the temple to get the daily task. Reading a religious tome that your character carries could unlock a random task that if designed propperly could be completed almost anywhere that makes sense... Feeding beggard for example. Every town would have its share of beggars. Just give them food items and you are fullfilling the calling. The reward would automatically be added.
Buffs should last for 24 hours after earning it. The ability to repeat the daily should come 24 hours haver starting it.
but I play one on the forums...
:P
Hehehe I see that!
But alas, at this time there are no player factions. Then again, looking at STO and CO post launch that doesn't mean they won't show up later!
Also, it's a helpful variable for designers to draw on in single-player RPGs, or in this case for Foundry authors to call if they can.
Anyway DD deities belong to the game. The only pen/paper fantasy game that I have played during this year is Gurps Fantasy roleplaying and my character is a human Warpriest. Of course praying and deities and all that stuff should be in the game. For a Wizard it might be more interested to learn about magic elements but if you play a Paladin or a Cleric then deity should be important. Likewise regardless of class anyone in this game should be able to choose a god to worship if they want so.
Finally please do not try to use logic about deity granted powers because in real world you still have to give me proof that magic like fireballs exist. This is a fantasy game.
DnD has deities that may or may not offer some advantages when you follow them, how about sticking to that and how it can be best achieved in game.
Neverwinter Thieves Guild
Way to take what I said way out of context. All I am trying to say is that typically, chosing a deity simply grants some sort of stat bonus or special ability and is treated as just something you plug into your character. It always seems artificial to me and actually cheapens the roleplay potential that can be tapped by creating temples and enclaves and other "religious" affiliations the player can join. That's all. I see a D&D-base deity's cult or whatever as something that the player can actually engage in, with the perks in question coming from completing "devine" tasks. Then it becomes something that has real gameplay meaning and something to bring players together, rather than just a gimmick that gets plugged in at character creation.
MMOs need more opportunity for world immersion. ANYTHING that contributes to that should considered. If not for launch, then at some point after.
but I play one on the forums...
:P
Clergy of the deity controls channeling of deity power. Those who follow dogma of deity are given more power by the clergy. deity does not interfere with that power distribution.
There are people(npc) in 4e who worshipped Lanthander but do not follow Amanator, and do not believe in heresay that they were same and Lanthander was replaced. These people are not able to use the power of Amanator. An example which comes from the back of my mind is the campaign of Waterdeep - that dungeon with entrance from bucket in that inn (NWN - underdark I think). In that there is a npc ghost in one of the rooms who was follower of Lanthander but does not "believe" Amanator to be same. He cannot use any divine power due to that.
In 4e, you can choose to worship dead deity, but you will not get any benefits or powers from that deity. However you can follow more than one deity. e.g. You are a follower of Sharess, you can also follow Sune as Sharess is an exarch of Sune. Similarly those with principles not conflicting each other can be worshiped simultaneously.
However if you are Tiefling, you can follow conflicting gods too as tieflings are supposed to not really believe them but provide only lip-service (like dragonborn they are more self-dependent).
p.s. deities are not gods, but outsiders (basically powerful aliens).
Modern games try so hard to make everybody able to do everything that it really does "cheapen" the experience. Immersion can only, truly, happen when not everything is available to everyone. Being told you can't embark on a crusade because you're not a follower of a certain deity is arguably a key requirement to the spirit of D&D.
The best NWN Campaigns had NPC's react differently to every character. Even though we won't see alignment it would be great to see NPC's spit curses to the drow PC's or refuse to speak to followers of evil deities.
Living worlds must agknowledge the difference between the player characters or the stories will inevitably fall short.
EDIT - WELCOME BACK GILLRMN!
World immersion yeah I hope we can see more of it. Actually "divine" quests through at least FOUNDRY created adventures could more or less be expected, but exactly how much the community will use DD religion remains to be seen. I am unsure if this game has Angels(well that would be cool if they are available). In TV series Supernatural there are undeads and Demons who seem powerful. However later season an Angel appears and it is very powerful... most demons are very afraid of angels in that series. However regardless if this game supports Angels as creatures a typical divine quest giver could be simply a Cleric NPC or some other quest giver.
For none divine class I think minor ability advantages and disadvantages would be cool. On the other hand some of the best Role Play around the subject I have seen has come from the godless Rouge or Wizard.
For Divine classes I really feel picking ones deity is extremely important. The whole I am a Cleric but worship no particular god is honestly rather lame in my book. I desperately have been hoping since day one that specific deity based abilities for Clerics would be in. One deity's Sunbeam could be the same as another deity's pillar of flame. The cosmetics of priest/clerics having the feel of clearly being of one god or another would be super cool in my book. Special holy implements and temples would also be awesome. There is so much depth that could be added to the store and role-play potential of the game just through programing cosmetics. Deity selection should be manditory for Clerics, Priest, Paladins etc.
Oh only 34+ years here, thank god, somebody who now can answer MY questions
Seriously though, it gets trickey when you look at certain communities (often racial) worship pantheons even the priests. However, many do prefer one and wear said vestements of that one.
As for worshiping divine concepts, it's a hotly debated one and I'm out of 10' Poles here.
Finally, just because our Goddess is "dead" doesn't mean some of us mages are godless. Just...between deities who grant magic not tied to a single race (edit while waiting for her to return.)
I have read a lot of your post Truthseeker and I suspect you know just as much if not more than I do. A few times I have pulled out the books to verify something you said, and 99% of the time you are right on the hard core facts.
Part of this is probably a matter of prospective. Being "old" I have always been more Greyhawk Focused. Yes all my recent PnP games are still in Greyhawk. The World of Greyhawk gods are much fewer in number, more static, more divine, and have less overlap. Forgotten Realms makes my head hurt, but I realize this is where Neverwinter is set. I will of course be hoping to find a Greyhawk serve if such a thing is possible, but I get the feeling the foundary will not support that.