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Classes - A quandary
varrvarr
Member Posts: 385 Arc User
So far we've seen Guardian Fighter and Control Wizard videos and we've heard "trickster Rogue" mentioned several times in interviews or videos. These are all "builds" of the classes mentioned in the 4e players handbook. We also have heard in a few interviews and vids that Cleric is coming (plus we have a sub-forum for it), if that'll be Battle Cleric or Devoted Cleric remains to be seen.
Now here are the things that puzzle me. First, based off of the information above and a previous interview we are going to get both builds from 4e as options for our characters (maybe not a launch), but are these free or will we have to pay for them? Second, We haven't really heard a peep about Ranger since all of the changes in development occurred, is it still in? Will it be free? Finally, based on interviews we know that they will add more classes after launch, so will those classes be free or will we have to pay for them.
I actually see the reasoning behind having to potentially pay for these classes, and I wouldn't complain if it ends up that way since this isn't going to be a sub based game at all. What I'm interested in though is that they have some of these classes in "store" at launch. I am an altaholic I'll admit to that, but I really would like to be able to have my Great Weapon Fighter or my Battle Cleric (not to mention my Archer Ranger) from the start rather than having to wait for them to be put into the shop.
So here is the thing, would you rather see the game launch with a robust selection of classes (class builds) in the shop or have these added over time?
Now here are the things that puzzle me. First, based off of the information above and a previous interview we are going to get both builds from 4e as options for our characters (maybe not a launch), but are these free or will we have to pay for them? Second, We haven't really heard a peep about Ranger since all of the changes in development occurred, is it still in? Will it be free? Finally, based on interviews we know that they will add more classes after launch, so will those classes be free or will we have to pay for them.
I actually see the reasoning behind having to potentially pay for these classes, and I wouldn't complain if it ends up that way since this isn't going to be a sub based game at all. What I'm interested in though is that they have some of these classes in "store" at launch. I am an altaholic I'll admit to that, but I really would like to be able to have my Great Weapon Fighter or my Battle Cleric (not to mention my Archer Ranger) from the start rather than having to wait for them to be put into the shop.
So here is the thing, would you rather see the game launch with a robust selection of classes (class builds) in the shop or have these added over time?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Post edited by varrvarr on
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Well it depends on how much longer we have to wait for that. If it only took a month or so to add these classes into the shop (assuming they've got them mostly ready, just wanna wait so there isn't a flood of classes) I'd say lets wait the month and have them starting out. Now if they're gonna have to push back testing and release half a freakin year, they can just add the classes later on once we've all got accustomed to the game. I like both ideas, but I dread the idea of yet another release set back. Plus the added change in gameplay later on is always nice to see. Hopefully classes will coincide with races too. Maybe every 2-3 classes they add a new race into the game. I'd rather have more classes than races though, so if it comes down to one or the other, give me classes. After my rogue, I NEED a psion alt. :=D
We have very little info yet to speak about classes. But to answer u question i would say launch the game with few classes and them add more because im in favor of no sell content, races or classes bussiness model, just because of that.
Flawed, but close. Career paths in STO are the classes while the ships are like mounts. When you buy a specialty ship, it's like buying a warhorse compared to a riding horse....
Actually, that's not a bad idea for F2P in Neverwinter, but I bet they have already planned something like that. If not, feel free to use it Cryptic!
While it's true we have little info, the company has to find SOME way to make money. Most people have opinions on lockboxes/RMT(NOT arguing over it, don't start) and they have to find some way to make money. Selling us classes would be a good way for them to generate money and to keep the game going strong.
Although it would have to be a one time deal, saved to your account. If they tried to make you buy a class every time you wanted to play it, I'd say some rather colorful words to them. I don't see that happening though, so no worries there. One time cost of 10 dollars a class is a pretty good deal, how Varr said they do ships in STO for 25$ a piece seems a bit steep to me though. Maybe 20, but still a bit high. It all comes down to the quality of their classes. If they're great quality (which I'm sure they will be) and have great replay-ability, then hey maybe they'll be worth 25$. But you're looking at a higher cost than most dlc's, so they better be some darn good classes!
The career paths in STO are classes, they are the "ground classes" and add something to the "space class", but ships are much more than mounts, and buying a specialty ship is not like buying a warhorse compared to a riding horse.
Let us take two end game ships. Tactical Escort - Retrofit (TER hence forth) and Caitian Atrox Carrier (CAC hence forth). The TER as a tactical ship can mount cannons where the CAC cannot. The TER has more tactical BO slots which changes the make up of one's available skills, the CAC science BO slots. The TER has a non-combat cloaking device, the CAC can launch fighters. These are all abilities and powers inherent to the ship regardless of what the career path you choose. Ships are like classes in these regards and require a great deal of development time to balance and design.
I imagine if they do sell classes, it won't be for $25 but for less. Ships require a great deal of work and I imagine even haggling with CBS for license reasons. I think there is more money spent to design a ship though I think the time comparison is probably about right between designing a ship and a class.
These are excellent points, but you can't customize or specialize on your purchased ships like you could on a selected class.
Then again, STO's career paths don't really offer much in the way of specialization playing devil's advocate to...myself.
No you can't customize what the ship does (the powers and such), but you can customize many aspects of the visuals of the ships, which is one of the reasons I think they cost so much.
As to "customizing" classes in NW, since they are going off of the principal builds from 4e, I'm wondering how much customization there will be. I am assuming (and I could be making an <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out of myself) that there is a reason for using the builds, so Guarding Fighter for instance has the suggested At-Will powers of sure strike and tide of iron, so perhaps wen we pick Guardian fighter we get those at-will powers automatically. That is of course a guess, but it is the reason that makes the most sense to me for them to utilize the builds from 4e rather than just Fighter. *shrug* given the lack of info all I've got is conjecture.
St. Augustinus
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Instead you would have to break it down to things like travel (mounts), extra feats (mods), spell items (teleport/transwarp) and so on. Champions online model for that would be more likely, in which case some classes (basic) would be free and others pay to unlock. I know if tey had the make your own charactor slot like champions had I would buy that:)
Sorry but I don't understand the sense of the discussion about builds...as the fourth edition reduce, in comparison to 3.5, about the different possibility od characterization of a character, when Cryptic seems to leave the possibility to: increase as you want the characteristics; choose the powers; choose abilities; choose talents....at this point the possible builds are surely more than 1-2 for class...isn't it?
I don't think this is true at all since he core of the game is the same.
St. Augustinus
Multi-class doesn't exist anymore in 4e, per say. There are now "Multi-class Feats" (another link)that you can take at certain levels to take feats of other classes. Then there is the newer Hybrid Class Options. Neither of these rules have been stated, at all, for Neverwinter Online - so we know not if either will be an option.
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
Yeah I had thought about that. I would take that to be the "hybrid" 4e option. I'd love to see that and would gladly pay for it.
My assumption is that we will have to pay for both races and classes. This game is going to be completely free to play from what we've been told, so I expect a great deal of things in the shop simply because they will need to make money.
Hybrid is usually used to hybridize the character. Although it is theoretically possible to have striker+striker(e.g. rogue+sorcerer) hybrid - its striking power will always be less than pure striker. This is because 4e is balanced as you will not unfairly get all the starting stats of both classes as in 3e.
What hybrid does is hybridize your character - e.g. you feel your campaign does not require too much healing - go leader/healer+defender. That way you will be less of a healer and less of a defender, say 0.45 healer and 0.4 defender. If pure class is 1 healer. The rest 0.15 is lost due to synergy issues.
Is loosing 0.15 ok? yes - because you also get versatility which is quite valuable.
Sometimes people hybridize because of clear goal - to get X thing to use in Y thing. But that is advanced.
Hence do not expect hybrid to be in at launch - because it is not for newcomers to dabble at(or newcomers from 3e). Also you can only hybridize two class for a player character.
As for multiclass - it is very essential for bard. Again it has a restriction of only two classes. Zeb already gave the links. But what is the difference between two then?
Multiclass is you dabble in other class - while in hybrid you create a class of your own. Thus for example, if you are a warlock multiclassing into paladin(lol) that means you are a warlock who happens to learn a few paladin tricks.
Being hybrid of warlock and paladin would be akin to you being a different class altogether who has "mixed" paladinic power will warlocking powers and created some profane class out of it.
EDIT:
Hence customization in 4e is dependent on paragon paths, various classes etc. more than the ability to mix. You cannot have unfair classes - like half wizard who can use plate armor without taking any extra feats, but if you want an armored magical warrior, there are many paragon available - swordmage, a few sword paths in psions etc.
That is why I said that cryptic will have to bring multiclass in before it brings bard.
EDIT: Oh! And this multiclass versatality is different from ordinary multiclass feat in terms that
The only reason I mentioned 4e's hybridization is because a previous poster mentioned the the Champions online ability for Gold members (or those who buy the option) to be able to "pick their own" class. In many ways it is similar to the hybrid system in 4e, not exactly the same, but a comparison can be made for sure.
Looking at CO's store it actually appears that they sell hybrid classes now and not just the ability to "make your own". So there is a precedent for selling classes in Cryptic games. It looks like the sell for about $11 (USD). I haven't played CO as much since the f2p, so I'm less familiar with the game, but this would be a good indicator that we may see classes hit the NW store and since NW is going full f2p I see it as even more likely.
Sorry if it carried the impression, but it was not directed as a response to your or anybody's else comments but in general the posts in this and other threads. This thread just seemed most on-topic place to post.
Also regarding CO analogy - we cannot actually compare the two as there won't be any LTS for NW (hybrid in CO is for LTS). Also NW is f2p from grounds up and not a convert unlike CO. This apart from the fact that hybrid classes are overpowered so that model cannot be imported over to NW without completely remodeling it.
I didn't take it as directed at me, no worries. I just felt that it should be explained why at least I had brought it up.
I don't think that just because the shops in CO and STO were made for games that are not f2p from the ground up we shouldn't use them as examples of what may end up in NW's shop. While PWE no doubt has its own approach to f2p, NW is clearly a Cryptic design and retains a number of elements that appear to be very similar to previous games they have made. For this reason I think that things like classes and races (both of which sold in various Cryptic game shops) are likely to be sold in NW, even more so because the game will not have a sub option from what we've been told.
Mind you, I'd expect like they do in STO I can make any slot of mine a "Hybrid" from then on and not a one-time slot purchase of course.
Warhorse- Bite and trample attack. Can be of color of choice. Could paint socks and blaze of forhead etc. Can fight from mount.
While the degree of difference is not so great as a space ship in sto its there non the less.