Character Creation ?

muzrub333

The only info I could find in the FAQ on character creation (see below) left me with a few questions.

"All players create a race and class with six different attributes: Strength, Constitution, Dexterity, Intelligence, Wisdom and Charisma. One does "mission appropriate" and "class appropriate" things that give the character experience points (or XP) that eventually give "levels." After a certain number of levels (unspecified for thie MMO game but often the ones divisible by four in the tabletop game,) the player can choose to raise an attribute by one point for two attributes (this also may change for the MMO game.) "

Will we actually get to "roll" for our attributes, or will we have a set base for race/class, with an allotment of points to spend as we please. (upto racial maximums). While something many non PnP experienced MMO players might really dislike rolling, I'd love to see some real random characters instead of the usual min/max cookie cutter characters.

Also will we have points to spend in non combat skills as we please, similar to AA points in other games, like the secondary skill sets in AD&D/D&D PnP? The more I can create a true "character" the better.

Thanks

iamtruthseeker

muzrub333 wrote: »

The only info I could find in the FAQ on character creation (see below) left me with a few questions.

"All players create a race and class with six different attributes: Strength, Constitution, Dexterity, Intelligence, Wisdom and Charisma. One does "mission appropriate" and "class appropriate" things that give the character experience points (or XP) that eventually give "levels." After a certain number of levels (unspecified for thie MMO game but often the ones divisible by four in the tabletop game,) the player can choose to raise an attribute by one point for two attributes (this also may change for the MMO game.) "

Will we actually get to "roll" for our attributes, or will we have a set base for race/class, with an allotment of points to spend as we please. (upto racial maximums). While something many non PnP experienced MMO players might really dislike rolling, I'd love to see some real random characters instead of the usual min/max cookie cutter characters.

Also will we have points to spend in non combat skills as we please, similar to AA points in other games, like the secondary skill sets in AD&D/D&D PnP? The more I can create a true "character" the better.

Thanks

The reason we don't have specifics in the FAQ is the devs or staff of Crypic/PWE haven't said, but it's likely going to be based on a "points" method.

Of course I welcome any devs or other employees to answer that question. (BTW, CrypticMapolis has been the one giving the most responses so far)

surf13

OP, it's highly likely it'll be PnP 4e standard. That means point buy on attributes. And skills points (and options) will be based on attributes, your class and (to a lesser extent) your race. Some feats, etc also influence skill choices.

muzrub333

surf13 wrote: »

OP, it's highly likely it'll be PnP 4e standard. That means point buy on attributes. And skills points (and options) will be based on attributes, your class and (to a lesser extent) your race. Some feats, etc also influence skill choices.

4e, that's like new math right? Haha, I guess I'll have to do some studying. I'm a 1st edition fan, (some 2nd edition books), but I might actually get some campaigns together if I get out of the dark ages.

Thanks for the info.

iamtruthseeker

muzrub333 wrote: »

4e, that's like new math right? Haha, I guess I'll have to do some studying. I'm a 1st edition fan, (some 2nd edition books), but I might actually get some campaigns together if I get out of the dark ages.

Thanks for the info.

For likely obvious reasons, I didn't list the specific point buy system for the PnP in my FAQ, but (in 4E PnP) you can build from a 22-point buy with 5/6 stats starting at 10 and 1 starting at 8. Like the other D&D point-buy systems, it uses the same value: 1-1 points-stat from 10 (or 8) until 13, 2 points per stat 14-16 3 points per stat 17-18 which it caps at for non-houserule games.

There are also "Stat arrays" you can automatically pick and swap with your chosen attributes (they don't have to be filled in that order.) The top three are: 16,14,14,11,10,10 18,14,11,10,10,8 and 16,16,12,11,11,8

This is before any racial modifiers, so one could have a 20 in a stat at character creation.


In 3rd edition, you have a racial penalty (except humans which have neither a bonus or penalty) but there is none in 4th (but humans get only one racial +2 bonus which they can place on ANY stat.)

Here's a link from the thread For New Players:

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/quickstartrules.pdf
(Edit which is The Official WotC D&D 4e Quickstart Guide)

This really walks you through the 4E basics without having to by the PHB

And if you have further questions, feel free to ask us here in this thread, in other or new threads, or feel free to PM me if you wanted to ask something privately!

muzrub333

Thank you very much...gotta say I have been here basically one day, and I am impressed. I really enjoyed wasting my work time here today! Looks like I have some "homework" for tonight.

Great community!

surf13

Well folks don't have to get the PHB. They can just use the Official WotC D&D 4e Quickstart

Oh and on books. The Rules Compendium may be more useful to NWO than any other 4e PnP book.

iamtruthseeker

surf13 wrote: »

Well folks don't have to get the PHB. They can just use the Official WotC D&D 4e Quickstart

Oh and on books. The Rules Compendium may be more useful to NWO than any other 4e PnP book.

That's the same link I included in my above post and FAQ. But thanks for naming it here Surf13!

surf13

LOL! I missed the link soz.

aavarius

I'd recommend the Neverwinter Campaign Setting as well.

surf13

iamtruthseeker wrote: »

That's the same link I included in my above post and FAQ. But thanks for naming it here Surf13!

aavarius wrote: »

I'd recommend the Neverwinter Campaign Setting as well.

From a fluff perspective certainly. And hopefully for some of the build mechanics too. As a primer on 4e mechanics tho...

iamtruthseeker

surf13 wrote: »

From a fluff perspective certainly. And hopefully for some of the build mechanics too. As a primer on 4e mechanics tho...

Yes not a mechanics-recommended book, only lore-recommended.

surf13

Mind you I expect we'll see the themes, etc in the Neverwinter book fairly early in the game's life.

alsaroth

Will there be alignments in the game? And if so, can one:
A) Chose evil (lawfull, neutral or chaotic)
Chose alignment at the character creation or will it grow around choices one make?

It'd be a nice flavour with alignments, but I have a had time seeing it play a role in the game, other than maybe spell/skill/feat-selection.

What do you guys and gals think?

zebular

aavarius wrote: »

I'd recommend the Neverwinter Campaign Setting as well.

Indeed, as do I. Here is a nice little excerpt from this marvelous tome to show just how relative the Neverwinter Campaign Setting is to Neverwinter Online:

Neverwinter Campaign Guide, pg 5 wrote:

Neverwinter Connections

The Neverwinter Campaign Setting takes some inspiration from the Neverwinter Nights computer game series. A new computer game, Neverwinter, explores the setting described in this book. In Neverwinter you can see the city for yourself and interact with characters and plots that will be both familiar and new to you after reading this book.

To get even more from your Neverwinter experience, check out Gauntlgrym and Neverwinter, both by R.A. Salvatore, and Brimstone Anyels by Erin Evans. All of these novels and others that follow them have Neverwinter and its environs as their setting.

The Neverwinter Campaign Setting is set after the events of both the novels mentioned above, and it shares its starting point with the computer game. The plots, major characters, and the events described in this book share much with those in that product, but just as one DM's Neverwinter campaign will differ from another's, so too will you see differences between what is presented here and in other sources. Use the novels and the online game as refere nce and inspiration for your game, or enjoy them as separate experiences.

Also, the Neverwinter Campaign Setting suggests the following books (book names in bold wheat color):

Neverwinter Campaign Guide, pg 5 wrote:

For the Dungeon Master: To run a Dungeons & Dragons game in the Neverwinter setting, you'll need the Rules Compendium and the Dungeon Master's Kit, or the Player's Handbook and the Dungeon Master's Guide. In addition, you'll find most of the creatures mentioned here in Monster Vault and the Monster Manual books. Supplements such as Open Grave: Secrets of the Undead and Draconomicon: Chromatic Dragons will enhance your experience, as will the Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide.

Neverwinter Campaign Guide, pg 5 wrote:

For Players: To play in a Neverwinter campaign, you need the Rules Compendium and Heroes of the Fallen Lands, Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms, or the Player's Handbook. The Forgotten Realms Player's Guide should also prove to be a useful resource.

Keep in mind, none of these books are "needed" to play Neverwinter Online. They're only suggested for those who want to delve deep into the lore of the Realms surrounding and encompassed in the Online Game.

zebular

alsaroth wrote: »

Will there be alignments in the game? And if so, can one:
A) Chose evil (lawfull, neutral or chaotic)
Chose alignment at the character creation or will it grow around choices one make?

It'd be a nice flavour with alignments, but I have a had time seeing it play a role in the game, other than maybe spell/skill/feat-selection.

What do you guys and gals think?

Alignments in 4e are almost completely different than in previous editions. You can play with no alignment at all. Check out these articles and notes:

http://www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4ex/20080602a
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Alignment

How the alignment system will be functional in NWO, we have no idea yet as they haven't hinted at it publicly yet.

gillrmn

zebular wrote: »

...

How the alignment system will be functional in NWO, we have no idea yet as they haven't hinted at it publicly yet.

Last communication very very long ago regarding alignment was that they can add a flag but alignments don't have much to do in MMO game. Dev archive.

RolePlay
--pantheon(gods) and Alignment --
Q: Will we be able to choose alignment and deities?
A: I'm not sure if we'll have flags for this, or will just leave it up to the RPers to handle it.
Q: Will we have dialogue choices?
A: I can't comment here yet either.
Q: Is it possible to assign macro so that whenever I cast a spell, an incantation is automatically spoken by my PC(e.g. in local chat by macro-ing a key, So whenever I press Q for Cure Light Wounds, my chracter types, "I call upon XXY deity to help my allies!" in locl chat)}
A: This should be possible.

\

EDIT: very very long ago also hints that no longer valid due to various changes to the game.

zebular

gillrmn wrote: »

Last communication very very long ago regarding alignment was that they can add a flag but alignments don't have much to do in MMO game. Dev archive.

\

EDIT: very very long ago also hints that no longer valid due to various changes to the game.

Thanks for the dig!

aeroth001

gillrmn wrote: »

Last communication very very long ago regarding alignment was that they can add a flag but alignments don't have much to do in MMO game. Dev archive.

Doesn't matter they are needed for roleplaying !

iamtruthseeker

gillrmn wrote: »

Last communication very very long ago regarding alignment was that they can add a flag but alignments don't have much to do in MMO game. Dev archive.

\

EDIT: very very long ago also hints that no longer valid due to various changes to the game.

zebular wrote: »

Thanks for the dig!

Just to requote somebody's explanation on the 4E alignment system in an archived post (heck if could even be me but it's too long ago to be sure or not: )

Archived Post wrote: »

Alignments in 4e are as follows:

Lawful Good
Good
Evil
Chaotic Evil
Unaligned

Unaligned does not mean Neutral. It basically means you haven't chosen a team or that you, as a player, just don't want to use alignment. 4e is big on not enforcing alignments, with the only game element I know of that depends on alignment being if you are a Divine power source character that worships a deity. In that case you have to choose a deity that is the same alignment as yourself. There are no rules-based penalties for violating your alignment and there are really no rules about forced alignment changes either.

Keeping with the spirit of not enforcing alignment, I would hope Neverwinter would give you lots of RP and dialogue options that don't depend on the alignment you choose and that it wouldn't punish you for acting contrary to your alignment, since that's always very subjective and usually only punishes good characters for not being good. I've never in 30 years seen an evil character punished for not being evil enough. As for how the game would treat a Lawful Good Bahamut worshipper who goes around slaying civilians (if that's even possible), I don't know. The recommended consequence in the 4e books is simply to A: not play evil characters and B: suggest the player change alignment. But it's left up to the DM and the player - 4e doesn't like to tell you how you're supposed to RP.

And IMO, that's a good thing.

As for used in this game:
From the How Many Factions Will Neverwinter Have? thread.
Pretty much, it was confirmed waaaay back in a 2011 Neverending Nights article I don't even remember that gillrmn re-quoted once:

NeN: ... What about Alignment? Will selecting an Alignment be available? And will it impact how NPCs within the game interact with you? Or will there be ?€œFactions?€? within the game that you can gain or lose favor with?

JE: Neither alignment nor factions play a role in Neverwinter.

that alignments were not going to be used in this gaming system, and this position has not changed since. Of course I welcome any Developer update on alignment if applicable.

Since this keeps coming up, I added an alignment section in my FAQ explaining how it works in 4E yet is not used in the game.

surf13

aeroth001 wrote: »

Doesn't matter they are needed for roleplaying !

Bingo! I have a certain evil character concept I may not be able to play if they only allow the PHB recommended alignments *sigh* We'll see.

Edit: I can always roll him "unaligned" but that would feel like.. cheating ":D

iamtruthseeker

surf13 wrote: »

Bingo! I have a certain evil character concept I may not be able to play if they only allow the PHB recommended alignments *sigh* We'll see.

Edit: I can always roll him "unaligned" but that would feel like.. cheating ":D

As said in multiple threads, alignment isn't used in game and it doesn't matter what you role play, just play it. Even if things like "stealing" may not be mechanically supported in the game, this does not prevent you from playing the character how you wish, nor are you forced to "cookie cutter" your ethos onto alignment if it's not used.

ambisinisterr

Personally I don't see any problem in a game which has no alignment system. If I am going to roleplay I can choose to role-play however I want at this point and I think it will even add an interesting level so that people will have to truly look deeper than the alignment to know exactly what you're up to.
It should be interesting.

The only thing that would be outright wrong is to dictate that players have to be good/neutral aligned characters. Now that would hurt roleplaying.

Not sure, I don't see the concern of lacking alignments at all. Pick an alignment if it helps you but it's not necessary in order to RP.

katalystik

Even though it may not have a system in place to track alignments, individual UGC campaigns could use an item system to track it. Devs have said we'll be able to give players quest items so we could give them certain items that reflect dialog choices at the start of the campaign, then check for those items in later dialog to open different dialog trees, swapping out the items for different ones should the alignment change.

This is all theory, I've only seen videos of the Foundry but this seems fairly easy to implement if you wanted your own campaign to follow some alignment system.

surf13

ambisinisterr wrote: »

Personally I don't see any problem in a game which has no alignment system. If I am going to roleplay I can choose to role-play however I want at this point and I think it will even add an interesting level so that people will have to truly look deeper than the alignment to know exactly what you're up to.
It should be interesting.

The only thing that would be outright wrong is to dictate that players have to be good/neutral aligned characters. Now that would hurt roleplaying.

Not sure, I don't see the concern of lacking alignments at all. Pick an alignment if it helps you but it's not necessary in order to RP.

Yeah I get that. I didn't say otherwise.

Folks do realise that many 4e divine classes and associated trees have alignment pre-reqs, right? So how will those transpose into a game that doesn't have alignment?

Yes alignment isn't a crucial part of 4e. But it's there and active none-the-less...

iamtruthseeker

surf13 wrote: »

Yeah I get that. I didn't say otherwise.

Folks do realise that many 4e divine classes and associated trees have alignment pre-reqs, right? So how will those transpose into a game that doesn't have alignment?

Yes alignment isn't a crucial part of 4e. But it's there and active none-the-less...

I don't play the divine class as much, so could you give examples? Short of things like PP that require you to worship x deity, I don't see this happening at first thought.

Anyway, it's moot for this game which is not going to use those pre-reqs of alignment.

surf13

I don't play the divine classes much either - though I'd play an Avenger.

A quick search of the compendium for "alignment" shows...

Theme: Purple Dragon: Prereq: Good or lawful good alignment
Class: Invoker: Your alignment must match your deity
Class: Paladin: You must choose an alignment identical to your deity
Epic Destiny: Lord Of Fate: Prereq: Unaligned
Epic Destiny: Shiradi Champion: Prereq: Non-evil alignment
Epic Destiny: Exemplar Of Evil: Prereq: Evil alignemnt
Epic Destiny: Harper Of Legend: Prereq: Good or Lawful Good
Feat: Scourge Of The fallen: Prereq Good or Lawful Good
Items: Heck there's 72 with alignment specific clauses/requirements.
Paragon Path: Demon-Bound: Prereq: Demon spawn or nongood alignment.
Paragon Path: Vermin Lord: Prereq: Evil alignment
Paragon Path: Contract Killer: Prereq: Evil Alignment
Paragon Path: Blood-Crazed Berserker: Prereq: Evil alignment
Paragon Path: Dark watcher: Prereq: Good or Lawful Good
Paragon Path: Idol Of Darkness: Prereq: Evil Alignment
Paragon Path: Enlightened Word: Prereq: Nonevil alignment.
Paragon Path: Pack Master: Prereq: Good alignment

You can bet there's plenty more that don't actually include the word "alignment".

The important bit for most PCs will be items. Many artifacts have alignment specific clauses and behaviour and it will detract from the RP/story aspects of the game to neuter that.

To be honest I think 4e has gotten the alignment thing exactly right. It's mostly a flavor thing with a few related RP/story elements. It'd be a pity to take that out of Neverwinter...

iamtruthseeker

surf13 wrote: »

I don't play the divine classes much either - though I'd play an Avenger.

A quick search of the compendium for "alignment" shows...

Theme: Purple Dragon: Prereq: Good or lawful good alignment
Class: Invoker: Your alignment must match your deity
Class: Paladin: You must choose an alignment identical to your deity
Epic Destiny: Lord Of Fate: Prereq: Unaligned
Epic Destiny: Shiradi Champion: Prereq: Non-evil alignment
Epic Destiny: Exemplar Of Evil: Prereq: Evil alignemnt
Epic Destiny: Harper Of Legend: Prereq: Good or Lawful Good
Feat: Scourge Of The fallen: Prereq Good or Lawful Good
Items: Heck there's 72 with alignment specific clauses/requirements.
Paragon Path: Demon-Bound: Prereq: Demon spawn or nongood alignment.
Paragon Path: Vermin Lord: Prereq: Evil alignment
Paragon Path: Contract Killer: Prereq: Evil Alignment
Paragon Path: Blood-Crazed Berserker: Prereq: Evil alignment
Paragon Path: Dark watcher: Prereq: Good or Lawful Good
Paragon Path: Idol Of Darkness: Prereq: Evil Alignment
Paragon Path: Enlightened Word: Prereq: Nonevil alignment.
Paragon Path: Pack Master: Prereq: Good alignment

You can bet there's plenty more that don't actually include the word "alignment".

The important bit for most PCs will be items. Many artifacts have alignment specific clauses and behaviour and it will detract from the RP/story aspects of the game to neuter that.

To be honest I think 4e has gotten the alignment thing exactly right. It's mostly a flavor thing with a few related RP/story elements. It'd be a pity to take that out of Neverwinter...

Ahh, I was thinking classes, and I'll note the Invoker/Paladin ones. But interesting about the Purple Dragon Theme.

There are so many PP/ED choices not now it's no surprise some of them have alignments. And I've lost count of magic items so 72 seems small.

But thanks for that update!

surf13

Glad I could help!

As I said, I reckon core 4e has gotten the balance just perfect. Tampering with that will probably reduce the (probably already small) amount of story/RP in the game.

but oh well...

gillrmn

... disregard this. Already answered by someone else.

iamtruthseeker

gillrmn wrote: »

... disregard this. Already answered by someone else.

Fnord! Fnord