The new No-tab targetting system may end up changing the perception of clerics. RaiderZ has this for clerics with only AoE heals. I already heard many players in game saying how they see clerics in new light.
Basically, you don't have F1,F2 keys to select members. You press spell for AoE heal and then use arrow keys (or WSAD) to drag the healing circle along the floor and set it up somewhere within line of sight. It makes healing difficult and not boring.
This makes clerics much difficult than other classes as mages or melee, and arguably more interesting also.
So I can't wait to see a demo of how NW has handled the cleric. I hope it is better and not just boring button F1, button 1 Button F2 button 1 fest.
First off, why should healing be difficult, especially in a PVE setting? Second, saying the old way (or the tried and true way) is "boring" is simply painting it in a bad light. I am personally a fan of targeting individual players - It gives me more control and lets me know that my spell will hit them. It also allows for faster casting, since they don't need to waste time potentially 'chasing' characters or trying to find the ideal placement, with a circle on the ground.
Select target - cast....I can't see how the new method can possibly compete with that type efficiency. It may make it more 'fun' or 'interesting to you, but I (and I'm sure others) just see it as a nuisance. If they want aoe spells, just make them pbaoe, (either themselves or cast on a party member) then no circles needed. Guild Wars 2 has abilities where you need to place the circle to cast it, and I'm not a fan. If I'm moving around or whatnot fighting enemies, the last thing I want to do is have to detract from what I'm doing to 'aim' a circle on the ground.
Fiona Bauerstone - Devoted Cleric - Dragon Server
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denkasaebaMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited December 2012
Healing as hard as the encounter is, even if you try up and make stuff harder on purpose. So, instead of making healing mechanics harder or limiting them, make encounters harder. If WoW teached something to PvE developers is that block of tofu tank & spank encounter are not good.
Dilige, et quod vis fac (Love, and do what you will)
This part is boring because you are looking at those shiny red bars on top left of screen and pressing F1-1, F2-2 for healing the bars going down without actually going "inside" the fight.
With new system, you cannot heal indefinitely. For e.g. if you buff someone, you do not get reward for buffing, but if you buffed player gets hit and you buff reduces damage, you get reward on how much damage was stopped. This scales with the difficulty as dakensaeba said. This also keeps you involved in the fight while continuous healing can be left to pets - as it does not requires any brains, just a simple logic that if hp<25% use heal spell - or something like that.
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h0rseMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
This part is boring because you are looking at those shiny red bars on top left of screen and pressing F1-1, F2-2 for healing the bars going down without actually going "inside" the fight.
And many players that play support/healing, enjoy this aspect. You think if they wanted to be "in the thick of it" fighting, they would have chosen a healer, especially since most games have some sort of agro system? The last thing they want is to be noticed. Now with a Cleric, the class is more designed to fighting and supporting/healing (I guess depending on which sub-class) So we'll see how it works when the people have a chance to try it out.
As for looking at those "shiny red bars," and hitting buttons, I enjoy it. It's like a fun little minigame.
With new system, you cannot heal indefinitely. For e.g. if you buff someone, you do not get reward for buffing, but if you buffed player gets hit and you buff reduces damage, you get reward on how much damage was stopped.
Well, duh... this is what good support players do - cast spells on key targets, not just cast them to cast them...utilizing your classes abilities applies to all classes.
This scales with the difficulty as dakensaeba said. This also keeps you involved in the fight while continuous healing can be left to pets - as it does not requires any brains, just a simple logic that if hp<25% use heal spell - or something like that.
1 - Are you are assuming that healers are complaining that they are always left out of fights, and this new system is the answer to their grief?.... a lot of healers don't want to be in a fight - they just want to heal, hence playing a healer...
2 - healing does in fact take brains.... It involves prioritizing spells, quick thinking, and key timing.
For instance, you have 2 players low on health, but you can only use your big heal on one of them, because of the cooldown - who gets it? Can you keep them both alive? How will you do it? Do you cast the big heal, then mitigate damage on the other player while it coolsdown, or do you use a combination of other spells to keep the other player alive, not worrying about using the big heal twice?
And many players that play support/healing, enjoy this aspect. You think if they wanted to be "in the thick of it" fighting, they would have chosen a healer, especially since most games have some sort of agro system? The last thing they want is to be noticed. Now with a Cleric, the class is more designed to fighting and supporting/healing (I guess depending on which sub-class) So we'll see how it works when the people have a chance to try it out.
As for looking at those "shiny red bars," and hitting buttons, I enjoy it. It's like a fun little minigame.
Well, duh... this is what good support players do - cast spells on key targets, not just cast them to cast them...utilizing your classes abilities applies to all classes.
1 - Are you are assuming that healers are complaining that they are always left out of fights, and this new system is the answer to their grief?.... a lot of healers don't want to be in a fight - they just want to heal, hence playing a healer...
2 - healing does in fact take brains.... It involves prioritizing spells, quick thinking, and key timing.
For instance, you have 2 players low on health, but you can only use your big heal on one of them, because of the cooldown - who gets it? Can you keep them both alive? How will you do it? Do you cast the big heal, then mitigate damage on the other player while it coolsdown, or do you use a combination of other spells to keep the other player alive, not worrying about using the big heal twice?
I have played cleric for longest of times, so it feels weird to be on the other side.
*Sigh*
That is the whole point. Healing and buffing allies is your role, like its the rogue's role to sneak, seek out traps and scout. It does not means it is a waste of party slot apart from that. If you are only doing your healing role, then you are not playing your character.
On the other hand if your are damaging the enemies, while keeping party alive, then you are playing cleric. And cleric is not healing, healing is just a little part of many duties of cleric.
So the game will reward those who play more - it is as simple as that.
Secondly, if you have ever player healer efficiently, you should know that even in healing prevention is better than cure. The only role of cleric is not a band-aid but to be a leader - i.e. to see what areas the party is lacking in and provide the support there. When party needs dps, it gives them dps, when they need heals the cleric gives heals and when party needs cc it provides cc. To know what buff to give is also a role of cleric.
To reduce the role of support to mere band-aid is underplaying cleric class and insult to all support classes in general. A real cleric anticipates the monsters, and prepares appropriate buffs, and covers for the stupidity of the party. That is why it has been placed as a leader role in 4e.
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h0rseMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
That is the whole point. Healing and buffing allies is your role, like its the rogue's role to sneak, seek out traps and scout. It does not means it is a waste of party slot apart from that. If you are only doing your healing role, then you are not playing your character.
On the other hand if your are damaging the enemies, while keeping party alive, then you are playing cleric. And cleric is not healing, healing is just a little part of many duties of cleric.
So the game will reward those who play more - it is as simple as that.
Secondly, if you have ever player healer efficiently, you should know that even in healing prevention is better than cure. The only role of cleric is not a band-aid but to be a leader - i.e. to see what areas the party is lacking in and provide the support there. When party needs dps, it gives them dps, when they need heals the cleric gives heals and when party needs cc it provides cc. To know what buff to give is also a role of cleric.
To reduce the role of support to mere band-aid is underplaying cleric class and insult to all support classes in general. A real cleric anticipates the monsters, and prepares appropriate buffs, and covers for the stupidity of the party. That is why it has been placed as a leader role in 4e.
That's all common knowledge stuff for healer/support/cleric players - where's the part where it showcases how this new targeting system is going to work better than the standard approach, since after all, that is what the thread is about?
Fiona Bauerstone - Devoted Cleric - Dragon Server
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iamtruthseekerMember, Moonstars, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited December 2012
The problem is both sides are right in regards to the cleric's roles in D&D (both fighter AND healer) and MMO (more often healing in a classic MMO standpoint.) I can't say if the cleric class will be one or the other or balance both but that remains to be tested when the class is finally announced.
As for the targeting system working better or worse, it's different. I'd really have liked to see the cleric demoed in action to see it alleviate my worries about hitting moving targets needing to be healed (players) as the last thing I want to do is aim those highlighted circles in the middle of combat on the floor while being attacked for OTHER players' healing benefits. If it's reticle hitting only one player to heal and not a mass heal option, then disregard this worry.
The problem is both sides are right in regards to the cleric's roles in D&D (both fighter AND healer) and MMO (more often healing in a classic MMO standpoint.) I can't say if the cleric class will be one or the other or balance both but that remains to be tested when the class is finally announced.
As for the targeting system working better or worse, it's different. I'd really have liked to see the cleric demoed in action to see it alleviate my worries about hitting moving targets needing to be healed (players) as the last thing I want to do is aim those highlighted circles in the middle of combat on the floor while being attacked for OTHER players' healing benefits. If it's reticle hitting only one player to heal and not a mass heal option, then disregard this worry.
Targetting players that are running around isn't that big of a deal - it's kind of fun, really.
I'll make a comparison between RaiderZ and DDO for a moment, since I'm pretty sure you're at least somewhat familiar with both games.
In DDO, if I'm cycling Mass Heal, and my target dies before the Heal gets off, and no one gets healed, I feel cheated.
In RaiderZ, if I'm trying to heal the group, and 2 players dodge out of the way of an attack and I only end up getting 1 person, I don't feel cheated: I feel like I need to get better at aiming my heals.
Action combat really makes healing feel more involved and makes spellcasting feel much more intuitive. As someone who almost exclusively plays healing characters, I can say with 100% certitude that I prefer the action combat/ aiming system and that it totally enriches my experience as a healing character. Healing is not longer a matter of pressing F4, heal, heal, step back, F6, heal. I'm running around the group, dodging enemy attacks, frantically trying to place healing circles in the most opportune spots.
There IS NO SUCH THING as standing back and cycling group heals in an action combat game. It's a lot more complicated than that.
Unfortunately, it means no more piking - er, I mean, healing - my way up to max level. You actually have to keep your hands on the keyboard and mouse to play a cleric in an action MMO.
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ranncoreMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2,508
edited December 2012
Oh, and I played a ranged cleric in RaiderZ, but it's definitely possible to make a melee oriented cleric, and just looking over the cleric options in the 4e players handbook, if you want a feel for what Neverwinter Online might feel like - I'd go to RaiderZ and make a melee cleric.
That's all common knowledge stuff for healer/support/cleric players - where's the part where it showcases how this new targeting system is going to work better than the standard approach, since after all, that is what the thread is about?
It seems you missed the point. Unfortunately, if you have not experienced cleric builds on raiderz, you wont grasp what I exactly mean by my first post.
I was actually about to start a new topic about this exact same thing, so thought I would ride your coat tails.
I usually only play 'tanks' or pure melee, or an occasional hybrid. I almost never play a caster, and have stayed away from healers ever since DAoC. It's not that I am not good at healing, I just don't like the usual RAGE that follows when I 'let' someone die.
After playing RaiderZ to about level 25, and messing around in the PvP areas, I realized that tanks and dps don't really win battles, good healers do.
So I then began my mission, to make the best PvP oriented Cleric I could, and you know what, it was a LOT of fun. The Cleric in RaiderZ was like no other game I played, it involved a lot of attention, and reaction to the situation. Dodging, running in and doing point blank AOE heals, ground target AOE heals, self heals for emergencies, mana regen, dodging, group heals, group buffs, and did I mention dodging?
I really hope NW will incorporate a similar concept... imagine, your HEALER needs SKILL to be a good healer. Who would have thunk it? In most games, people become famous for being the best 'tank' or best 'rogue'... I think it would be cool if there was a video on YouTube of someone showing off their healing skillZ.
Unfortunately, the healers job usually consists of watching the tanks health bar go down, and pressing 'heal' when needed, or as a tag along 'buff bot', speed bot, rez bot, etc.
Something where people can choose either 'melee' or 'range' would be nice, in DAoC, the Albion Friar class had several melee attacks which would proc AOE heals. I forget which game it was, but there was a class where you could do direct damage spells, and they would also proc AOE heals to the group. Something like that would be cool, where you could do melee or range damage, and heal the group as well.
Anyway, GO CLERICS YEAH!
EDIT: Oh yeah, another weird idea I had, was a 'stealth healer'. I'm not really sure how that would work out, but if Shadowbane can have a 'mage assassin', why couldn't there be a stealth healer?
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ranncoreMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2,508
EDIT: Oh yeah, another weird idea I had, was a 'stealth healer'. I'm not really sure how that would work out, but if Shadowbane can have a 'mage assassin', why couldn't there be a stealth healer?
I could see that working.
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iamtruthseekerMember, Moonstars, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
In DDO, if I'm cycling Mass Heal, and my target dies before the Heal gets off, and no one gets healed, I feel cheated.
In RaiderZ, if I'm trying to heal the group, and 2 players dodge out of the way of an attack and I only end up getting 1 person, I don't feel cheated: I feel like I need to get better at aiming my heals.
But in the same regard, if you target a player and he dies before the heal goes off, then it could be said you need to get better and planning heals ahead of time, or keeping players alive long enough to get that heal off. Each method has a skillset, they just focus on different player skills.
Action combat really makes healing feel more involved and makes spellcasting feel much more intuitive. As someone who almost exclusively plays healing characters, I can say with 100% certitude that I prefer the action combat/ aiming system and that it totally enriches my experience as a healing character.
And as someone who almost exclusively plays healing characters, I can say that I prefer the "traditional" approach to healing, over trying to make it feel more "action oriented" or "engaging."
Healing is not longer a matter of pressing F4, heal, heal, step back, F6, heal. I'm running around the group, dodging enemy attacks, frantically trying to place healing circles in the most opportune spots.
And did you ever stop to think that perhaps a reason many people enjoy playing a healing character, is because they typically DON'T want to have to worry about running around and dodging attacks, and instead, they just want to concentrate healing players? I mean, typically, the healer is just sitting back and healing, so to assume that players who enjoy playing healer actually enjoy this playstyle, is not that farfetched.
And don't give me the "the cleric is a tank," or "the cleric should be fighting on the frontlines," argument - 1) the group could easily consist of a guardian fighter, leaving the cleric to more of a support/healing role, and 2) just because there may be a preconceived notion as to how a Cleric should be played, doesn't mean that their is only going to be 1 optimal way to play them.
It seems you missed the point. Unfortunately, if you have not experienced cleric builds on raiderz, you wont grasp what I exactly mean by my first post.
I'm currently playing a cleric in RaiderZ, and I prefer the "traditional" approach to targeting spells. I'm not going to dismiss this new way entirely - perhaps it will work well, but as of now, the tried and true way still holds favorite to me.
Fiona Bauerstone - Devoted Cleric - Dragon Server
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morbicMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited January 2013
Just as long as we don't go really far back in MMO time to the Complete Heal chains of EQ.... Honestly, I'm for a Battle Cleric that gets up in somethings face and does PBAE burst heals, Nuke clerics that bring on the pain with smites from range, and the most pure heal cleric that picks his targets for healing or casts group heals.
well gw2 actually uses the aoe ground healing and it usually fails in an action style game, I'm hoping they make only the HoTs be ground target the big heals be centered on clerics.
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jaxit09Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 4Arc User
edited February 2013
One thing we all need to remember...the game is modelled with Dungeon & Dragon rules. Right there above the word "Neverwinter" is the official logo. Anything other than direct, targetted healing will be leaving D&D rulesets.
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In tera I was a healer (mystic) and it was really fun trying to run around to "lock" on the target to heal. The priest has some ground heals but someone ran out of it well then they should have been watching the ground for it LOL. Tera did a really good job at the action combat system. I was disappointed with RaiderZ. There was no flow to the moves from each action to the next. I hope neverwinter is like Tera is the system of it all.
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iamtruthseekerMember, Moonstars, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
One thing we all need to remember...the game is modelled with Dungeon & Dragon rules. Right there above the word "Neverwinter" is the official logo. Anything other than direct, targetted healing will be leaving D&D rulesets.
Incorrect. Don't know if you've played much cleric 4E (and it's available in other classes like bard) but both burst/area healing and indirect healing is done in 4e. Both single and multi character.
For example:
Cleric Attack 1Beacon of Hope
You release a burst of divine energy that weakens your foes even as it heals your allies. The energy lingers within your holy symbol for a short time, improving your ability to heal your allies.
Daily Divine, Healing, Implement
Standard Action Close burst 3
Target: Each enemy in the burst
Attack: Wisdom vs. Will
Hit: The target is weakened until the end of its next turn.
Effect: You and each ally in the burst regain 5 hit points. Until the end of the encounter, whenever you restore hit points with a healing power, the recipient regains 5 additional hit points.
and
Healing Word
You utter a soothing word that mends wounds of the body and spirit.
Encounter (Special) Healing
Minor Action Close burst 5 (10 at 11th level, 15 at 21st level)
Target: You or one ally in the burst
Effect: The target can spend a healing surge and regain 1d6 additional hit points.
Level 6: 2d6 additional hit points.
Level 11: 3d6 additional hit points.
Level 16: 4d6 additional hit points.
Level 21: 5d6 additional hit points.
Level 26: 6d6 additional hit points.
and
Life Lanterns
Tiny lanterns appear next to your foes and bedazzle them with divine light, which can heal your friends’ wounds.
Daily Conjuration, Divine, Healing, Implement
Standard Action Ranged 5
Target: One, two, or three creatures
Attack: Wisdom vs. Will
Hit: The target is weakened (save ends).
Effect: For each target, you conjure a life lantern, which appears in 1 square occupied by that target and lasts until the end of the encounter. Any enemy that starts its turn in a life lantern’s square is dazed until the start of its next turn. Any ally who starts or ends his or her turn in a life lantern’s square can regain hit points as if he or she had spent a healing surge. Doing so destroys that lantern.
Yeah that was one of the great things I liked about 4e. The clerics ability for AoE heals and indirect heals from offensive attacks.
Makes clerics such a highly versatile and interesting class to play and I see their abilities converting brilliantly to the Neverwinter CRPG. I am very excited! hehe
I, personally, can't wait to try out the Cleric class and the NWO healing/battle mechanics. I just hope that at some point I can trade in the blunt weapons for a nice long sword and shield combo.
I just watched a first impression video of this weekend's beta over on youtube and I'm suddenly thinking I will be playing a Cleric now. I played a healer for a very long time in EQ2 and got tired of just being the guy in the back healing everyone.
From what I saw in the video (at least at the very early levels), it looks like Clerics are set up to fight and attack along with the rest of the group and sort of automatically heal as a side effect of their attacks. They have one ability I saw that puts a damage DoT on the enemy which also heals anyone who attacks that enemy. Another daily ability causes big damage to the enemy and then heals all allies.
So you don't spend your time watching your group's HP bars and shooting heals directly at them. Instead you can have fun taking down the bad guys just like everyone else and healing just happens as you fight.
The healing is okay, but not nearly as dynamic as healing in TERA or the like since you're so limited with numbers of skills available to you in NW. Unfortunately, NW also appears to only have very closed-in dungeon environments. All of the quest dungeons you enter have small rooms, so it's not like there's that much room to maneuver anyway. Definitely feels like I have less utility and less value as a cleric in NW compared with a healer in other games as a result of so few skills. Maybe that'll change endgame?
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tscarlettMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 4Arc User
The healing is okay, but not nearly as dynamic as healing in TERA or the like since you're so limited with numbers of skills available to you in NW. Unfortunately, NW also appears to only have very closed-in dungeon environments. All of the quest dungeons you enter have small rooms, so it's not like there's that much room to maneuver anyway. Definitely feels like I have less utility and less value as a cleric in NW compared with a healer in other games as a result of so few skills. Maybe that'll change endgame?
I have to agree. I felt that the limited amount of skills actually took away some of the potential of the game. Imagine being able to have all of the skills at your disposal. That to me would have made it even more fun to play, and made it possible to utilize the potential of the class a lot more.
I also felt that the targeting of "healing word" needs some refining. In those closed-in dungeons it was really hard getting that heal at the right player. It didn't really lock on because everything that passed between you, and the target stole away the heal. A lock-on functionality similar to Tera, or some other way to single out players thus ensuring your heal hits the spot would have been awesome.
The Cleric was an awesome damage-dealer though, and maybe a bit overpowered compared to the other two classes. To me this class actually felt a bit more like a mage with awesome damage, and some secondary healing skills rather than a cleric with a main role focused towards healing.
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iamtruthseekerMember, Moonstars, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited February 2013
I had the same problem healing others due to this even when only playing a 3 person group.
It's a fun class, but as annoying as hell to heal with. Everything blocks you from healing who you want. Even your other group members seem to be a bane of your existance. They are dodging so you will not have to heal them, and at the same time they get the heal you meant for someone else cause they stepped between you and your target at the wrong time. The only sure way to heal that guardian is to stay with him, and if you do that, while he blocks you get flattened. I am getting past the 'animations root you in place' in a so-called 'action' game, but the healing may be an even more bitter pill to swallow.
As a side note did anyone else have a problem with the angel ability. It swoops down, does a minor bit of damage, heals people for like 3 points of damage and then disappears? A bit underwhelmed there. Also, AOE attacks seems to mean .. they have to be standing directly on top of one another LOL.
If you mouse-over someone's name in your UI does it cast on that person? That would help a lot with people that aren't self aware. I mean, there has to be SOME way of differentiating which target you want when there's more than 1 grouped up... it's easy to do on pnp.
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mo0shak3Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 18Arc User
edited February 2013
After watching a few streams and videos of the beta weekend I've come to the conclusion that it will be ingrained in people that the proper etiquette for getting heals is to break off from the group a little and head towards the cleric so they can actually land the heals. Either that or a lot of groups will be double stacking clerics to try and pump out as much AOE healing as possible.
Comments
First off, why should healing be difficult, especially in a PVE setting? Second, saying the old way (or the tried and true way) is "boring" is simply painting it in a bad light. I am personally a fan of targeting individual players - It gives me more control and lets me know that my spell will hit them. It also allows for faster casting, since they don't need to waste time potentially 'chasing' characters or trying to find the ideal placement, with a circle on the ground.
Select target - cast....I can't see how the new method can possibly compete with that type efficiency. It may make it more 'fun' or 'interesting to you, but I (and I'm sure others) just see it as a nuisance. If they want aoe spells, just make them pbaoe, (either themselves or cast on a party member) then no circles needed. Guild Wars 2 has abilities where you need to place the circle to cast it, and I'm not a fan. If I'm moving around or whatnot fighting enemies, the last thing I want to do is have to detract from what I'm doing to 'aim' a circle on the ground.
Fiona Bauerstone - Devoted Cleric - Dragon Server
St. Augustinus
With new system, you cannot heal indefinitely. For e.g. if you buff someone, you do not get reward for buffing, but if you buffed player gets hit and you buff reduces damage, you get reward on how much damage was stopped. This scales with the difficulty as dakensaeba said. This also keeps you involved in the fight while continuous healing can be left to pets - as it does not requires any brains, just a simple logic that if hp<25% use heal spell - or something like that.
And many players that play support/healing, enjoy this aspect. You think if they wanted to be "in the thick of it" fighting, they would have chosen a healer, especially since most games have some sort of agro system? The last thing they want is to be noticed. Now with a Cleric, the class is more designed to fighting and supporting/healing (I guess depending on which sub-class) So we'll see how it works when the people have a chance to try it out.
As for looking at those "shiny red bars," and hitting buttons, I enjoy it. It's like a fun little minigame.
Well, duh... this is what good support players do - cast spells on key targets, not just cast them to cast them...utilizing your classes abilities applies to all classes.
1 - Are you are assuming that healers are complaining that they are always left out of fights, and this new system is the answer to their grief?.... a lot of healers don't want to be in a fight - they just want to heal, hence playing a healer...
2 - healing does in fact take brains.... It involves prioritizing spells, quick thinking, and key timing.
For instance, you have 2 players low on health, but you can only use your big heal on one of them, because of the cooldown - who gets it? Can you keep them both alive? How will you do it? Do you cast the big heal, then mitigate damage on the other player while it coolsdown, or do you use a combination of other spells to keep the other player alive, not worrying about using the big heal twice?
Fiona Bauerstone - Devoted Cleric - Dragon Server
I have played cleric for longest of times, so it feels weird to be on the other side.
*Sigh*
That is the whole point. Healing and buffing allies is your role, like its the rogue's role to sneak, seek out traps and scout. It does not means it is a waste of party slot apart from that. If you are only doing your healing role, then you are not playing your character.
On the other hand if your are damaging the enemies, while keeping party alive, then you are playing cleric. And cleric is not healing, healing is just a little part of many duties of cleric.
So the game will reward those who play more - it is as simple as that.
Secondly, if you have ever player healer efficiently, you should know that even in healing prevention is better than cure. The only role of cleric is not a band-aid but to be a leader - i.e. to see what areas the party is lacking in and provide the support there. When party needs dps, it gives them dps, when they need heals the cleric gives heals and when party needs cc it provides cc. To know what buff to give is also a role of cleric.
To reduce the role of support to mere band-aid is underplaying cleric class and insult to all support classes in general. A real cleric anticipates the monsters, and prepares appropriate buffs, and covers for the stupidity of the party. That is why it has been placed as a leader role in 4e.
That's all common knowledge stuff for healer/support/cleric players - where's the part where it showcases how this new targeting system is going to work better than the standard approach, since after all, that is what the thread is about?
Fiona Bauerstone - Devoted Cleric - Dragon Server
As for the targeting system working better or worse, it's different. I'd really have liked to see the cleric demoed in action to see it alleviate my worries about hitting moving targets needing to be healed (players) as the last thing I want to do is aim those highlighted circles in the middle of combat on the floor while being attacked for OTHER players' healing benefits. If it's reticle hitting only one player to heal and not a mass heal option, then disregard this worry.
Targetting players that are running around isn't that big of a deal - it's kind of fun, really.
I'll make a comparison between RaiderZ and DDO for a moment, since I'm pretty sure you're at least somewhat familiar with both games.
In DDO, if I'm cycling Mass Heal, and my target dies before the Heal gets off, and no one gets healed, I feel cheated.
In RaiderZ, if I'm trying to heal the group, and 2 players dodge out of the way of an attack and I only end up getting 1 person, I don't feel cheated: I feel like I need to get better at aiming my heals.
Action combat really makes healing feel more involved and makes spellcasting feel much more intuitive. As someone who almost exclusively plays healing characters, I can say with 100% certitude that I prefer the action combat/ aiming system and that it totally enriches my experience as a healing character. Healing is not longer a matter of pressing F4, heal, heal, step back, F6, heal. I'm running around the group, dodging enemy attacks, frantically trying to place healing circles in the most opportune spots.
There IS NO SUCH THING as standing back and cycling group heals in an action combat game. It's a lot more complicated than that.
Unfortunately, it means no more piking - er, I mean, healing - my way up to max level. You actually have to keep your hands on the keyboard and mouse to play a cleric in an action MMO.
It seems you missed the point. Unfortunately, if you have not experienced cleric builds on raiderz, you wont grasp what I exactly mean by my first post.
I usually only play 'tanks' or pure melee, or an occasional hybrid. I almost never play a caster, and have stayed away from healers ever since DAoC. It's not that I am not good at healing, I just don't like the usual RAGE that follows when I 'let' someone die.
After playing RaiderZ to about level 25, and messing around in the PvP areas, I realized that tanks and dps don't really win battles, good healers do.
So I then began my mission, to make the best PvP oriented Cleric I could, and you know what, it was a LOT of fun. The Cleric in RaiderZ was like no other game I played, it involved a lot of attention, and reaction to the situation. Dodging, running in and doing point blank AOE heals, ground target AOE heals, self heals for emergencies, mana regen, dodging, group heals, group buffs, and did I mention dodging?
I really hope NW will incorporate a similar concept... imagine, your HEALER needs SKILL to be a good healer.
Unfortunately, the healers job usually consists of watching the tanks health bar go down, and pressing 'heal' when needed, or as a tag along 'buff bot', speed bot, rez bot, etc.
Something where people can choose either 'melee' or 'range' would be nice, in DAoC, the Albion Friar class had several melee attacks which would proc AOE heals. I forget which game it was, but there was a class where you could do direct damage spells, and they would also proc AOE heals to the group. Something like that would be cool, where you could do melee or range damage, and heal the group as well.
Anyway, GO CLERICS YEAH!
EDIT: Oh yeah, another weird idea I had, was a 'stealth healer'. I'm not really sure how that would work out, but if Shadowbane can have a 'mage assassin', why couldn't there be a stealth healer?
I could see that working.
No, you can't, they're stealthed!
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And as someone who almost exclusively plays healing characters, I can say that I prefer the "traditional" approach to healing, over trying to make it feel more "action oriented" or "engaging."
And did you ever stop to think that perhaps a reason many people enjoy playing a healing character, is because they typically DON'T want to have to worry about running around and dodging attacks, and instead, they just want to concentrate healing players? I mean, typically, the healer is just sitting back and healing, so to assume that players who enjoy playing healer actually enjoy this playstyle, is not that farfetched.
And don't give me the "the cleric is a tank," or "the cleric should be fighting on the frontlines," argument - 1) the group could easily consist of a guardian fighter, leaving the cleric to more of a support/healing role, and 2) just because there may be a preconceived notion as to how a Cleric should be played, doesn't mean that their is only going to be 1 optimal way to play them.
I'm currently playing a cleric in RaiderZ, and I prefer the "traditional" approach to targeting spells. I'm not going to dismiss this new way entirely - perhaps it will work well, but as of now, the tried and true way still holds favorite to me.
Fiona Bauerstone - Devoted Cleric - Dragon Server
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Incorrect. Don't know if you've played much cleric 4E (and it's available in other classes like bard) but both burst/area healing and indirect healing is done in 4e. Both single and multi character.
For example:
and
and
Just a few I got from a moment's lookup.
Makes clerics such a highly versatile and interesting class to play and I see their abilities converting brilliantly to the Neverwinter CRPG. I am very excited! hehe
From what I saw in the video (at least at the very early levels), it looks like Clerics are set up to fight and attack along with the rest of the group and sort of automatically heal as a side effect of their attacks. They have one ability I saw that puts a damage DoT on the enemy which also heals anyone who attacks that enemy. Another daily ability causes big damage to the enemy and then heals all allies.
So you don't spend your time watching your group's HP bars and shooting heals directly at them. Instead you can have fun taking down the bad guys just like everyone else and healing just happens as you fight.
I like that
I have to agree. I felt that the limited amount of skills actually took away some of the potential of the game. Imagine being able to have all of the skills at your disposal. That to me would have made it even more fun to play, and made it possible to utilize the potential of the class a lot more.
I also felt that the targeting of "healing word" needs some refining. In those closed-in dungeons it was really hard getting that heal at the right player. It didn't really lock on because everything that passed between you, and the target stole away the heal. A lock-on functionality similar to Tera, or some other way to single out players thus ensuring your heal hits the spot would have been awesome.
The Cleric was an awesome damage-dealer though, and maybe a bit overpowered compared to the other two classes. To me this class actually felt a bit more like a mage with awesome damage, and some secondary healing skills rather than a cleric with a main role focused towards healing.
As a side note did anyone else have a problem with the angel ability. It swoops down, does a minor bit of damage, heals people for like 3 points of damage and then disappears? A bit underwhelmed there. Also, AOE attacks seems to mean .. they have to be standing directly on top of one another LOL.