Set when?

rjp33

Hi all

New to the site, but a big NWN and Forgotten Realms fan. In 'the game>about' blurb it says firstly that the events of the game are set 100 years after the spell plague... but then shortly afterwards says something about events then occurring 75 years later. Does that mean the game is actually set 175 years after the spell plague? Slightly confused.

Richie

rjp33

Hmm, something doesn't add up for this lore junkie. The Year of Blue Fire was 1385 DR, and the City of Neverwinter was smashed in 1451, which is 66 years later, not 'nearly 100 years' and not even 'nearly 75 years' later. Am I missing something here, or is this just an error from the folk at Cryptic?

gillrmn

Check neverwinter wiki and FAQs for in detail discussion on time. In fact any question on lore, you should check there first. Most probably, if anyone knows anything on that, it will be there.

gillrmn

rjp33 wrote: »

Hmm, something doesn't add up for this lore junkie. The Year of Blue Fire was 1385 DR, and the City of Neverwinter was smashed in 1451, which is 66 years later, not 'nearly 100 years' and not even 'nearly 75 years' later. Am I missing something here, or is this just an error from the folk at Cryptic?

EDIT: Just in case its confusing, explaining here again. As per DnD PnP, the campaign setting is after 1479DR.
Wailing Death:- 1372 DR [-13 years]
Spellplague:- about 1385 DR [0 years]
Eruption of Hotenow:- about(after) 1451 DR [66+{unknown time it took the lava to flow to the city} years]
Start of rebuilding of city NW:- 1461 DR [76 years]
Neverember claims the city with mintarn merceneries:- ~1467 DR
Campaign starts:- Somewhere after 1479 [after 94 years, if it is exact 100 years, the game starts in 1484]

The old interview states that it is a continuation of Gauntlygyrm novel, if you want to go to more details. So it would be after the setting of the novel. This should be after 1480 DR.

rjp33

Thanks for the reply and advice, gillrmn. Have read most of the FR timelines going around, including the wiki. The detailed wiki timeline stops at 1379 DR, even before the Spell Plague, though some links do make sparse mention of later events. The best post-Spell Plague timeline I've seen is this one:

http://community.wizards.com/gomeztoo/blog/2010/01/11/the_forgotten_realms_post-spellplague_timeline

It seems most timelines make little mention of the sacking and rebuilding of NW, apart from what is in the Gauntlgrym and Neverwinter novels (both of which I've read... along with most other FR novels). This is what you'd expect. No one likes a spoiler, after all. My question more relates to the temporal setting of the events of this game, as described in here:

"One hundred years have passed since the Spellplague forever changed the magical and mysterious lands of Faer?n. Mighty empires fell and great cities toppled, leaving only monster-haunted ruins and survivors struggling to rebuild.

The city of Neverwinter, the Jewel of the North, seemed blessed by the gods. While the rest of the Sword Coast was devastated by the event, Neverwinter survived largely intact. But this was only a temporary reprieve from its inevitable doom. Nearly 75 years later, a volcanic eruption rained fire, ash and molten fury upon the city, annihilating everything in its wake.

Today, Neverwinter has restored much of its former glory. Lord Neverember of Waterdeep has taken the city under his protection and put forth a call to all adventurers and heroes of the Savage North to help rebuild Neverwinter in the hopes that one day he can lay claim to her throne and crown. But evil forces conspire in the dark places of the world, seeking to undermine all..."

The '100 years have passed' bit is fine, as that leaves plenty of time for Salvatore to finish the events of the remaining 2 books, after which the game is supposedly set. I guess the thing that confused me was the 'nearly 75 years later' which, if it refers to the spell plague and the primordial's attack against NW, is well off. 66 years isn't really 'nearly 75 years' (it would be far more accurate to say it's 'nearly 70 years later'). I know I'm a huge FR lore geek for even noticing, but the FR timeline is one of the most documented fantasy timelines going around. As many NWN fans are also FR fans, I would have thought they'd pay a little more attention to setting and lore consistency.

By the way, the FAQ page here as absolutely nothing on the temporal location of the game, though I agree it should.

gillrmn

rjp33 wrote: »

Thanks for the reply and advice, gillrmn. Have read most of the FR timelines going around, including the wiki. The detailed wiki timeline stops at 1379 DR, ...
...
By the way, the FAQ page here as absolutely nothing on the temporal location of the game, though I agree it should.

Actually after my reply I rechecked both the locations. It seems continuous edits on wiki had brought a few errors. Also truth had it hosted before but while reorganising, he might have skipped it as I mentioned that in wiki.

So I made another post just above with most details. I am not quoting any sources (as its a pain to find them) but I hope you take the dates on faith.

The game is indeed very near 100years after spellplague. This is because it is continuation (or based around) gauntlygyrm novel which is about 1480ish dale. So game can be in 1485DR or so but no official date is known. But expect it around 1480+.

... if it refers to the spell plague and the primordial's attack against NW, is well off. 66 years isn't really 'nearly 75 years' (it would be far more accurate to say it's 'nearly 70 years later')...

It may be an attempt to sound vague, or a mistake. Or they may actually think 75 is near 66-67 years. But once suggestion section is up, you may suggest them to look into it and advise corrections.

plamgar

In other words it doesen't matter what yout did in NWN II.Faerun was ravaged by the spellplague and the gods war.Am i right ?

rjp33

Yeah, I reckon you're right. The game is probably set around 1484-85. As I said, I think it was the 'nearly 75 years' bit, following the '100 years later' bit that threw me. The 9 year discrepancy isn't much, but it counts for us FR nerdlingers! I read the 'continues on from Gauntlgrym' bit somewhere as well, but that seems strange. Surely the game is set AFTER the 4th novel, not during the events of the 2nd-4th. Oh well, I'm salivating at the chance to run amok in my favourite campaign setting, regardless. Thanks for taking the time to reply. I'll see you on walls of Neverwinter.

gillrmn

plamgar wrote: »

In other words it doesen't matter what yout did in NWN II.Faerun was ravaged by the spellplague and the gods war.Am i right ?

You are right. Even the pnp of NW 4e advises to ditch the old characters and kill them during spellplague and start with new characters. Many of the lore was completely reset - e.g. history of tieflings, eladrin and elven history and even a little bit of drow. Weave is no longer the source of arcane as is now dismissed as a rubbish superstition practiced in 4e. etc.

So it is very much a complete reset, though some elements have carried on. So NWN series would not be having any affect on the NW game. Apart from that, licensing issues mean they might not be able to use the content from that series that was not cannon.

Basically, it is completely different, separate and independent from NWN series.

rjp33

plamgar wrote: »

In other words it doesen't matter what yout did in NWN II.Faerun was ravaged by the spellplague and the gods war.Am i right ?

I think the God's War happened during the Time of Troubles, in 1358 DR, prior to the Spell Plague.

gillrmn

rjp33 wrote: »

Yeah, I reckon you're right. The game is probably set around 1484-85. As I said, I think it was the 'nearly 75 years' bit, following the '100 years later' bit that threw me. The 9 year discrepancy isn't much, but it counts for us FR nerdlingers! I read the 'continues on from Gauntlgrym' bit somewhere as well, but that seems strange. Surely the game is set AFTER the 4th novel, not during the events of the 2nd-4th. Oh well, I'm salivating at the chance to run amok in my favourite campaign setting, regardless. Thanks for taking the time to reply. I'll see you on walls of Neverwinter.

Forums are for discussing, you don't have to thank me for it
(though maybe you would like to update lore on wiki, we have very small team there, partly because game is not yet in beta)

Also, the game won't be having content of the novels, but will explore time between them imo. Though I may be wrong about that.

rjp33

Don't get me started on the hatchet job that is 4e... and what it did to MY wonderful realms! Seriously though, I'll enjoy the game regardless. The discrepancies just give us purists something to harp on about... kind of like I've done in this thread, lol.

gillrmn

rjp33 wrote: »

I think the God's War happened during the Time of Troubles, in 1358 DR, prior to the Spell Plague.

You are right, but he is probably reffering to god's purge over the long time of 100 years after spellplague (due to edition transition) in which tyr, helm and most of the gods died and reorganized their portfolio.

...the hatchet job that is 4e... and what it did to MY wonderful realms!...

can't argue with you there. They took pretty bold steps like killing tyr (though the plan was to have him take torm's position and kill torm but he had already killed helm so they were forced to kill tyr).

But once you immerse yourself in 4e, you start to see how better and organized the lore is. Being a lore fan, and a previous hater of 4e, I hope you will understand what I am saying too. e.g. lore of outsiders is much better now; demons and devils are different; devils are fallen angels with asmodeus being lucifer like; chalice story is nicely placed with He Who Was - a first attempt at human background; shadow powers are boldly addressed etc. A lot of things have opened a lot of possibilities to make bold stories now. So it is different than 3e. It won't be able to replace 3e, but is a world which is engrossing in its own sense.

Also, I would say it is good to catch any discrepancies and the devs would be appreciating that if you keep on catching the real ones - for they will get free editors

plamgar

Still i would love to find some in game lore about the main heroes and companions in NWN I,II something like forgotten texts or something.

zebular

gillrmn wrote: »

You are right. Even the pnp of NW 4e advises to ditch the old characters and kill them during spellplague and start with new characters. Many of the lore was completely reset - e.g. history of tieflings, eladrin and elven history and even a little bit of drow. Weave is no longer the source of arcane as is now dismissed as a rubbish superstition practiced in 4e. etc.

So it is very much a complete reset, though some elements have carried on. So NWN series would not be having any affect on the NW game. Apart from that, licensing issues mean they might not be able to use the content from that series that was not cannon.

Basically, it is completely different, separate and independent from NWN series.

Actually, these statement are incorrect. The old lore of the elves did not "reset" or get "re-written." It got added to - or rather the Feywild's own history came into current history along side the original history of the elves. If you read through all three books, the 4e Neverwinter Campaign Setting, the 4e Forgotten Realms Players Handbook and the 4e Forgotten Realms Campaign setting, they all state that both histories of the elves exist.

I do not know if I am allowed to quote directly from the books on a large scale without suffering infringement, here are a few small exerpts from the 4e Neverwinter Campaign book, since that books is the most relevant to this online incarnation of the Campaign.

Players can bring existing characters to Neverwinter, but the Neverwinter Campaign Setting presents a great opportunity to start a new campaign.

The Neverwinter Campaiyn Setting takes some inspiration from the Neverwinter Nights computer game series. A new computer game, Neverwinter, explores the setting described in this book. In Neverwinter you can see the city for yourself and interact with characters and plots that will be both familiar and new to you after reading this book. To get even more from your Neverwinter experience, check out Gauntlgrym and Neverwinter, both by R.A. Salvatore, and Brimstone Angels by Erin Evans. All of these novels and others that follow them have Neverwinter and its environs as their setting. The Neverwinter Campaign Setting is set after the events of both the novels mentioned above, and it shares its starting point with the computer game. The plots, major characters, and the events described in this book share much with those in that product, but just as one DM's Neverwinter campaign will differ from another's, so too will you see differences between what is presented here and in other sources. Use the novels and the online game as reference and inspiration for your game, or enjoy them as separate experiences.

When you play an eladrin or an elf, think about whether you are a child of Faerun or of the Feywild.

Though the Spellplague inspired many sun elves to retreat further into isolation, most moon elves reacted to the tragedy of that period by forming stronger bonds with other races. Many moon elves now consider themselves a citizen of a worldly nation first and an eladrin second. Others have used renewed links with the Feywild to reconnect with their ancient homeland. In turn, a new generation of moon elves now spreads from the Feywild to explore the world.

The reconnection of the world with the Feywild brought the elves of Abeir-Toril into contact with kin they had thought lost in ages past. The long-dormant powers this contact awakened among the elves of both planes shows Corellon's desire for his folk to become a united people. Reinvigorated by this union, the elves of Faerun have gone from a race in decline to one of great strength.

So, it is clear the history of the Elves has not been thrown out completely and dismissed or even re-written. Instead, their ancient history has come to light and has begun to mingle with the history we have known, a history which still exists as the quotes clearly indicate that there are still elves that did not come from the Feywild and that both histories are relevant and present.


To anyone serious about learning the source lore of the Elves of the Forgotten Realms, both of Faerun and the Feywild, I strongly recommend the following source materials:

2e The Elves of Evermeet
2e Arcane Age Cormanthyr: Empire of the Elves
2e Myth Drannor Boxed Set
4e Neverwinter Campaign Setting
4e Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting
4e Forgotten Realms Players Handbook


Keep in mind, non-Forgotten Realms source material has very little - to none at all - bearing upon the Forgotten Realms, except for non-lore Rule books, such as the Dungeon Master's Guide. The base (non-Forgotten Realms) Player's Handbook should NOT be used with the Forgotten Realms at all, this is why the Realms has its own Player's Handbooks.

If one just wants to immerse oneself in the source material for this upcoming MMO, Neverwinter, then I strongly recommend buying the 4e Neverwinter Campaign Setting.

As well, the Weave (in layman terms) was just the ancient Mystryl's laws upon magic, but on a Godly Scale. Magic is still commonly referred to as the Weave, as directly stated in the 4e FR source materials. It still flows through everything like it did before, it is just no longer bound by Mystra's Weave, which collapsed when the Spellplague ravaged Realmspace, just as Shar's once Shadow Weave collapsed and no longer holds any bounds upon Shadow Magic.

No diety, not even Shar, has been able to assume Mystra's old portfolio yet (for reasons unknown). The only diety that still has any sway over Magic is Corellon Larethian, who never lost his portfolio and control of Elven Magic. There are hints however, in lore material, that Mystra may become resurrected once again, as Elminster and the Simbul are currently trying to hunt down "Blueflame" magical items that are reported to contain remnants of the very essence of Mystra herself. They hope to use these items to resurrect Mystra once again.

gillrmn

Yes you are right.

too well written to argue with

iamtruthseeker

Since my forum access fix thought I'd address some "old threads" I could not speak of before.

rjp33 wrote: »

Thanks for the reply and advice, gillrmn. Have read most of the FR timelines going around, including the wiki. The detailed wiki timeline stops at 1379 DR, even before the Spell Plague, though some links do make sparse mention of later events. The best post-Spell Plague timeline I've seen is this one:

http://community.wizards.com/gomeztoo/blog/2010/01/11/the_forgotten_realms_post-spellplague_timeline

It seems most timelines make little mention of the sacking and rebuilding of NW, apart from what is in the Gauntlgrym and Neverwinter novels (both of which I've read... along with most other FR novels). This is what you'd expect. No one likes a spoiler, after all. My question more relates to the temporal setting of the events of this game, as described in here:

"One hundred years have passed since the Spellplague forever changed the magical and mysterious lands of Faer?n. Mighty empires fell and great cities toppled, leaving only monster-haunted ruins and survivors struggling to rebuild.

The city of Neverwinter, the Jewel of the North, seemed blessed by the gods. While the rest of the Sword Coast was devastated by the event, Neverwinter survived largely intact. But this was only a temporary reprieve from its inevitable doom. Nearly 75 years later, a volcanic eruption rained fire, ash and molten fury upon the city, annihilating everything in its wake.

Today, Neverwinter has restored much of its former glory. Lord Neverember of Waterdeep has taken the city under his protection and put forth a call to all adventurers and heroes of the Savage North to help rebuild Neverwinter in the hopes that one day he can lay claim to her throne and crown. But evil forces conspire in the dark places of the world, seeking to undermine all..."

The '100 years have passed' bit is fine, as that leaves plenty of time for Salvatore to finish the events of the remaining 2 books, after which the game is supposedly set. I guess the thing that confused me was the 'nearly 75 years later' which, if it refers to the spell plague and the primordial's attack against NW, is well off. 66 years isn't really 'nearly 75 years' (it would be far more accurate to say it's 'nearly 70 years later'). I know I'm a huge FR lore geek for even noticing, but the FR timeline is one of the most documented fantasy timelines going around. As many NWN fans are also FR fans, I would have thought they'd pay a little more attention to setting and lore consistency.

By the way, the FAQ page here as absolutely nothing on the temporal location of the game, though I agree it should.

Technically if not literally, the idea is the city of Neverwinter escaped the major ravages of the godswar which the murder of Mystra caused the Spellplague a centruy ago. However, the volcanic eruption seventy five years later approximately did raze the town. Unfortunately, a poor job was done on listing time-lines as well as establishing what was and what was not cannon. For instance:





[SPOILIER ALERT]


The restoratrion of Mystra from the Chosen's sacrifice into "ash wraiths" is in novel timelines, but not in the game campaigns (yet? if ever.)

gillrmn wrote: »

Actually after my reply I rechecked both the locations. It seems continuous edits on wiki had brought a few errors. Also truth had it hosted before but while reorganising, he might have skipped it as I mentioned that in wiki.

So I made another post just above with most details. I am not quoting any sources (as its a pain to find them) but I hope you take the dates on faith.

The game is indeed very near 100years after spellplague. This is because it is continuation (or based around) gauntlygyrm novel which is about 1480ish dale. So game can be in 1485DR or so but no official date is known. But expect it around 1480+.


It may be an attempt to sound vague, or a mistake. Or they may actually think 75 is near 66-67 years. But once suggestion section is up, you may suggest them to look into it and advise corrections.

Due to what I listed above as well as my FAQ being for new users first, I'm not listing any time-lines and/or DR's unless necessary. I'll leave the wiki to sort the DR and literal time-lines. When I have to I might list approximately.

gillrmn wrote: »

You are right, but he is probably reffering to god's purge over the long time of 100 years after spellplague (due to edition transition) in which tyr, helm and most of the gods died and reorganized their portfolio.



can't argue with you there. They took pretty bold steps like killing tyr (though the plan was to have him take torm's position and kill torm but he had already killed helm so they were forced to kill tyr).

But once you immerse yourself in 4e, you start to see how better and organized the lore is. Being a lore fan, and a previous hater of 4e, I hope you will understand what I am saying too. e.g. lore of outsiders is much better now; demons and devils are different; devils are fallen angels with asmodeus being lucifer like; chalice story is nicely placed with He Who Was - a first attempt at human background; shadow powers are boldly addressed etc. A lot of things have opened a lot of possibilities to make bold stories now. So it is different than 3e. It won't be able to replace 3e, but is a world which is engrossing in its own sense.

Also, I would say it is good to catch any discrepancies and the devs would be appreciating that if you keep on catching the real ones - for they will get free editors

As far as mechanics go, 4e Rocks in regards to character creation and power management. As what it did to the storyline of the entire FR, it bites. They murdered a bunch of gods and citizens just to make a gamer mechanic work?! You work the mechanics to make the story not the other way around. That sin is the one thing I do not forgive 4E for.