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Common grounds on hot topics in forum community
gillrmn
Member Posts: 7,800 Arc User
I think it would be beneficial for the game if we work towards what can be common grounds for diverse crowd. So instead of sticking to opinions, let us try to see how much ground everyone can yield to arrive at common grounds on main topics:
E.g.
PvP
If you want PvP, how much intrusive must it essentially be in context of this particular game.
[i.e. PvP in public areas etc.]
RP
If you want RP, how much intrusive must it essentially be in context of this particular game.
[i.e. walking in public areas]
Gear variation
How much variation from original stats should gear make?
Lets start with these three and see if we can come to common grounds greed by all. Not discussion, logic or debate but forming a middle road.
I want to believe that if we all try, we are great community and can reach a common conclusion everyone is in harmony with.
E.g.
PvP
If you want PvP, how much intrusive must it essentially be in context of this particular game.
[i.e. PvP in public areas etc.]
RP
If you want RP, how much intrusive must it essentially be in context of this particular game.
[i.e. walking in public areas]
Gear variation
How much variation from original stats should gear make?
Lets start with these three and see if we can come to common grounds greed by all. Not discussion, logic or debate but forming a middle road.
I want to believe that if we all try, we are great community and can reach a common conclusion everyone is in harmony with.
Post edited by gillrmn on
0
Comments
PvP
- I strongly believe it should not be forced as this will make a lot of people leave.
- I strongly believe it should be there as it will make people come.
- I weakly believe it should be away from eyes of those who don't want to see it.
RP
- I believe it doesn't matter as RPers can always RP irrespective of what is allowed or not.
- RPers should have ability to make a private instance in public areas to stop non-Rpers from jumping on table and ruining their play.
Gear variation
- I strongly believe players should be able to compensate for gear by being better at clicking buttons in game during combat.
- I strongly believe there shouldn't be traps taking 200Hp away like in DDO so that minimum HP has to be XX amount. Instead traps should be based on % - 100% of health away, 80% of health, etc.
PvP
If you want PvP, how much intrusive must it essentially be in context of this particular game.
I believe there should be PVP, but limited to designated areas only. Since there will be no pvp servers, this is the only way it can be fair to those who have no interest in pvp. I believe the designated, instanced, areas can be arenas, bars, homes, entire towns or even small wilderness areas. Instancing should allow lots of fun ways to PVP, while keeping it out of sight and out of mind to those of us who dont want to see or think about it.
RP
If you want RP, how much intrusive must it essentially be in context of this particular game.
I think Neverwinter is going to be really rough to RP in as designed. As a fast action arcade game, its going to be impossible to try to emulate traditional turn based, tabletop play. However, because of the sheer multitude of Neverwinter gamers that played old pen and paper, it would be great to see Cryptic announce an RP server in addition to the regular game server. It would certainly make Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson proud. This would bring together a bunch of gamers, that could freely adventure at an entirely different pace than the regular game server.
Gear variation
Gear rule #1. There should be no pay-2-win sold in the cashshop. Stick to your commitment to sell vanity and other non-essentials only.
Gear has to be "shiny" or noone will want it. However, it must be available in various areas. If certain loot only drops in one quest, ala DDO, it will force endless farming. This also goes against the concept of the Foundry. Foundry creators should be able to select weapon features based on a predetermined set of rules set by Cryptic. The better the weapon, the less % chance item will drop. Also weapons should have a difficulty to obtain attribute to meet. A "great" weapon should only drop from a highly competent adversary.
Other points:
Traps should be random. They shouldnt be easy to find, and they should hurt. However, each class should be able to use skills to circumvent them or minimize their impact. There should be many different types of traps. They should not be able to wipe a party, just cause them lots of pain. Weakest links should probably die, but with some practice even they can learn to avoid death. This would successfully avoid HAVING to acquire a rogue on most quests which are known for deadly traps. You could even have more traps than in DDO, yet it doesn't impact the play as much.
Gear cannot be the be all and end all. Gear must be shiny (aka valuable and in demand) but it cant be sold in the store and it must be findable in many locations/quests. Crafting should be able to add a near endless ability to make just about anything that could drop in quest. This would go a long way to stifle plat farmers.
Exploiters. Neverwinter needs to come down hard on cheaters from DAY ONE. If you are caught exploiting you are gone. Period, end of story. Make a few examples, and make it known. Do not give "chances" or give "lifetime bans", that are lifted in a few days or weeks because the guilty comes crawling back on their knees crying or begging to get their account back, like Turbine's allowed to happen.
Hit points. No need for monsters with hundreds of thousands of hit points. No need for the uberest gear to be able to play in the end game. Gear should be in demand, but not necessary. Weapons and gear and characters need to be reasonably aligned and scalable without the need for pay-2-win.
Will add more as people start replying! Great idea Gillrmn!
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That being said, so that I am not detracting from the topic, I'll share my ideas on how the following ideas 'should' be implemented. I add quotes because I do not feel that all of the below ideas should be implemented at all, but for the sake of argument, I'll include them as if they would be included regardless.
PvP: In select areas only, separate from the rest of the game, so as not to detract from players wishing to have fun. This should not be an area that is along any main thoroughfare or major quest lines. I.E. Players should not see it unless they are looking for it. Information about where PvP can and should happen should be readily available in game. Quests should not deal with PvP at all, unless they are solely PvP and are not part of the lore or main gameplay. In otherwords, unless I wish to partake in PvP, I do not wish to even look at it. Dueling should be kept to designated areas as well, and not allowed in the main civilized areas. Either the option can be greyed out, or (better idea) detractors be arrested, beaten and thrown into jail. They should be warned ahead of time that this is the penalty for doing so. Zero PvP should be tolerated anywhere players will need to turn in quests, fight or otherwise conduct business that is not related to PvP.
RP: Unlike PvP, this doesn't detract from the game by its use. Most RP is done either with local chat, or more frequently, in independent channels. I'd like to see a full suite of RP backdrops for players with a heightened griefer awareness. Griefing in these areas should carry a steeper penalty than in others. Naturally, these areas should be designated as such, so that players don't cry 'not fair'. If the above Dueling/PvP zone feature is implemented, this would be a good way to show that the developers care about this niche of the gaming market as well, as they comprise some of the more steadfast members of the gaming community.
Gear: No enhancements in the shop. No enhancements in the shop. No enhancements in the shop. Please provide gear that is nice to look at, as well as appropriate and customizible. Let freebies customize just as much as paying subs or whatnot, at least to a degree. Do not make the freebies customization options to be horrible stunted. This will make for an uglier game overall (everyone wearing the same armor? Ew.) Gear should be a minimal grind, and different 'types' of gear (This weapon is frosttouched. This weapon is Vicious, etc) should be intuitive to where it can be found. Don't put a flaming sword in an ice cave. Don't put a mage's orb of necromancy in a paladin's castle.
Also, gear should be able to fit the body types, even if they are not 'ideal'. I expect Neverwinter to allow portly characters, aside from dwarves. They exist in fantasy settings, too.
There you go. My thoughts.
Considering that this is DnD a faction based pvp system would work. There should always be factions for players who do not want to pvp to join as well. I would restrict the pvp from occuring in town with the exception of some bad neighborhoods with in a town.
2. If you want RP, how much intrusive must it essentially be in context of this particular game.
I have no issues with RP of any sort as long as there is no policing of it.
3. How much variation from original stats should gear make?
No more than 15 percent to begin with once level cap increased maybe no more than 20 percent. Skill should always trump gear.
4. Traps need to be deadly. Lets not trivialize them. A triggered trap should be deadly to the one who triggered it and less so to everyone else. Lets face it, its not fun to have the whole party pay for some careless zerger.
I understand your concern and I know there are lot of threads on pvp alignment etc. But this thread, as I mentioned is not about discussion but reaching the common ground. Well, that would mean how much compromise we can each have - irrespective of opinions and ideas behind it. I believe there exists a system containing these three things where everyone can be agreeable. Of-course instead of being obstinate we will have to consider other people's opinions and loose some ground or reach a compromise, and I believe this can be done because the community (for now) is closely knit and comparatively nice.
To summarize all responses so far:-
PvP:
@adamantium
Must
- no open pvp in town
Should
- faction based pvp
- option to not join pvp
@khoraxgator
Must
- Players should not see it unless they are looking for it
- No PvP near public areas like near important npcs, bank etc.
Should
- No quest dealing with PvP
- No PvP in civilized areas (either not able to or an offense)
@andre
Must
- There should be PVP, but limited to designated areas only
Should
- Instanced PvP if possible
@me
Must
- Should be there but not forced
Maybe
- hidden unless you look for it
RP
@adamantium
Must
- No policing of it
@khoraxgator(I didn't understand the lingo completely so am copy pasting it)
Must
- full suite of RP backdrops for players with a heightened griefer awareness
Should
- Griefing in these areas should carry a steeper penalty than in others
@andre
Must
- be RP friendly
Should
- announce an RP server in addition to the regular game server[probably not possible :-( ]
@me
Not much here
Gear:
@adamantium
Must
- 15 to 20% (wow figures!)
Should
- skill triumphs gear
@khoraxgator
Must
- No powerful gear in shop
Should
- Lots of good looking gear
@andre
Must
- No pay-2-win gear
Should
- Good looking grind free gear
@me
Must
- Low dependence on gear
- If gear good, should be able to overcome by 'above average' skills or by taking more time etc.
Let me know if I understood the opinions incorrectly.
@gillrmn - Could you try to put your summery at the top of the thread. It might get troublesome to try and find it if this thread gets hot.
PvP
- Well, there MUST be PvP. I believe that it should be done battle ground style like WoW... however I believe it shousld be completely optional. Quests relating to PvP should only be give if a player is going to PvP (ie. at the entrance of the PvP battleground).
- As for dueling and public PvP, I strongly support an central arena type area in each town or just outside of each town. I hate being challenged for random duels all over the world. I much prefer a designated space.
RP
- RP is an interesting one for me, I don't RP much, my style of more powergamer. I guess what I would like to see, as I'm more likely to RP at max level than any other, is, designated areas or game options that allow you to turn on or have a more RP based setting. For instance, why not have taverns where you are required to RP.
- I do not support however limiting all players to walking at all times in town. Maybe whats best is to have a specific server for RP only, but only if you can server jump with your characters.
Gear Variation
- Gear is so important. The variations of those gear should be completely random. I would like to see a system where the gear is different even if it is the same type. For instance, I get an armour drop we will call it Aa and then two minutes later I get the exact same armour Aa drop, the difference between the 2 should be the stats.
- I'd also like to see a dye system where you can change the colours of your items.
- City shops should be near useless at mid to higher levels... except when it comes to crafting and crafting recipes.
I think thats all i have for now LOL
This should be entirely instanced and separated from pve land. This could be small scale like arenas and warfronts to large scale like wvw in Guild Wars.
This makes pvp entirely participatory.
RP
RP should also be optional. Players should be able to run where they want, mount where the game allows, and so on.
I say this because RP means different things to different people. For some it is sitting around the tavern typing story text and emoting extensively. For others it is developing a persona for their character and keeping in a certain character. Some like to engage in this lightly and others heavily. We should all be allowed to engage in the manner we choose to the degree we choose.
Players who choose not to participate in role-play should be respectful of those who do. Players who go out of their way to be disruptive should be counseled or temporarily suspended (banned) if a repeated or particularly obnoxious offender.
Likewise RP players should be respectful to non-participating players who are conducting their business or hanging out in the area.
Inside of taverns and buildings I wouldn't mind if characters moved at a walking speed, but I wouldn't want it forced outside of town.
Gear
In a perfect world I would love gear to be non-stat and have augments that give it stats. That way all gear would be for appearance sake and would allow for customization and building your character the way you want.
Other than that I just don't want to have to raid to get the best gear, items, craftables, and fluff. I'm really at the end of my rope with raiding.
Also I don't want to see "pvp gear" and "pve gear". Gear should be gear and relevant for whatever you're doing.
I want all my playtime to contribute to my progression. So if I'm grouping for some adventures, then I want the rewards to be relevant to my progression. If I'm doing foundry adventures then I want that to relevant to the same progression. If I'm soloiong or duoing a lot then I want that to be relevant to the same progression. In short I don't want to be forced into any one activity to get where I want to go.
Store
As long as the store is reasonably priced and I can also grind/work for it in the game then I don't care what they sell in there. I don't care about "pay to win" as much as I do store exclusivity like I experienced in LotRO. I hated that.
RP... well, as long as they are not annoying everyone else by forcing everyone to walk or serenading at world chat, then they can do whatever the hell they want. Maybe an RP realm in the server?
I'm also a very light roleplayer myself, but that only goes as far as crafting a story for my character on the go and playing it in my head (they also have a very detailed background story but it generally involves a fractured elder god that has nothing to do with D&Ds lore or any other game's lore for that matter)
Gear should have a big impact on the game, just as it has in the original D&D. I don't know how it is in 4e, but in 3e gear reliancy ranged from minimal (monks, sorcerers) to "be all end all" (fighters), with most classes sitting somewhere around 50% character skills/feats - 50% gear. I believe that is a good ratio. Player skill should also matter, but player skill in RPGs should be third in importance behind character skill and gear, and generally limit itself to "can you make this character perform close to it's actual power?" rather than "can you make this character perform better than it's power would normally allow them?". It's an RPG, that's the whole idea behind the genre you know... if it was supposed to be a game of player skill then it wouldn't have all those stats, skills, feats and gear getting in the way of a fair fight...
Should be in.
Open PvP should be zone restricted and could be in the form of battle grounds or faction vs faction.
Closed, consensual PvP should be limited to duels and guild vs guild challenges provided the server make-up allows for suchh open world interaction.
PvP should gain rewards similar to PvE. One should never have to PvP in order to be better at PvE... nor should one have to PvE to be better at PvP.
PvE should never be 'balanced' in regards to PvP. Design your classes and let them stand as is. Balancing classes for PvP often harms group class balance for PvE; the main focus of the game.
RP
Dedicate a server to RP and allow RPers latitude in RP rule enforcement. Otherwise RPers simply will not be happy with a 'normal' server without things like naming policy enforcement. Neither would a non-RPer be pleased about having RP restrictions forced on them.
Gear variation
Random stats on some gear is okay but will cause a great deal of grinding for 'just the right piece'. Allow for such gear to be broken down and crafted into 'just the right piece' to avoid said grinding.
Allow for equal gear to be earned from crafting, random drops, boss drops, PvP, etc. thus not favoring one play style over another.
Allow crafting to alter the stats of gear such that poor quality, awesome looking gear could be made equal to high end gear... unless, of course, there will be costume slots.
Multi-group activities
Regardless of what you call them; a mechanic must be in place to link multiple 5 man groups into a single force. I've heard many arguments that groups larger than 5 'wouldn't fit in the D&D setting... and that's fine. However, NWO should built to the broadest possible audience and, like it or not, there are groups of people out there with more than 4 friends that will want to play together.
- I like pvp, always have
- Not gear based- make a separate set of gear that you just pick up for pvp (look at how GW2 is doing it), and give it a pvp stat so people wear it instead of pve gear (because having the best pvers have better gear for pvp is just dumb)
- I don't think there's factions, so I don't see world pvp being in, and frankly world pvp is rarely a big deal anyway
- rewards should be pvp specific mounts, outfits, titles, pets, etc...
- never balance for pvp over pve unless you are making a pvp specfic game (which this game is NOT), it is better to make an ability simply act differently in pvp if you need to
- variety is the key to interesting pvp- both variety of viable specs (people are tired of cookie cutters), and variety in pvp zones (people are tired of capture the flag and node capture)- have your simple ones if you must, but include some interesting zones, such as Alterac Valley, Wintergrasp and Isle of Conquest before they became zergfests
RP
- have RP specific servers, preferably with a ruleset so that people who don't want to respect RPers can be put on another server where respect isn't mandatory (should be noted that if there's not an offical RP server, we'll just designate another server the unofficial RP server anyway, but there'll be alot of clashing with non-RPers on that server and it's never pretty)
- include basics- taverns, sitting, emotes, chat bubbles all should be in the game- foundry I think would be a fine place to make yourself a guild hall or private tavern to avoid having to put up with pests
- Ideally, pvp should have some real quests, real purposes and should be part of the world, and thus meld with RP- make a pvp storyline and you'll attract pvp-rpers
Gear
- in pvp this shouldn't be a factor, period- make stat variation is fine (for example, a rogue that loves crits can get gear with +100 health, +5 dex, +15% crit, while one that likes to last longer can get one with +200 health, +15% armour, +5 dex for example) but all gear should be equal
- for pve, I don't think gear progression should be the key- take DDO for example, the focus was largely on the game, the different adventures, and gear often wasn't the main factor over your decisions. At high levels, gear becomes more vital, and epic quests it's key. I think as long as you're doing a reasonable amount of dungeons and quests you should always be geared for normal versions of everything your level- but I do agree that for hardcores, harder to attain gear should be a part of epic level versions of dungeons
- make crafting a big part of the game- even to the point of making top level gear. Though DDO had an overly complex gear system- ultimately, it is not simple to make the best gear or to level, it takes either a lot of cash or a lot of questing... but it was also ultimately quite rewarding, and in a game with tonnes of pre/suffixes on gear, being able to make what you specifically want, even if that costs you perhaps 20 pieces of equal gear- was worth it. If I get a greatsword as a rogue from an epic raid, it might be useless- but if after five similar useless drops, I can get enough materials to make myself a dagger that's on par it makes it so crafting is useful, while at the same time making it still at the level of gear I can do anyway. Crafting really helps to fight against bad RNG.
Store
- extra bank/bag space, xp potions, stacks of items that are readily available (like potions), easy rezzes when you fall in an area so you don't have to run back all I think are game changing things that should be included as they don't ruin balance
- cosmetic stuff should of course be in- outfits, new hair styles/colours, changing your character's appearance or gender, name changes. Pets, mounts
- eventually we'll see classes and races likely- I imagine we'll start with a choice of 4-6 free classes and races, then they'll add more with their own costs
- character slots (after the 4th likely)
- gear, to a degree- I think any gear in an item store should obviously not be BiS, but should also be something that can be bought on the AH too, and likely isn't anything unique (like set pieces) and anyone could get that with a couple quests or a reasonable amount of cash (DDO for example does have lots of simple gear for sale that you could likely get just by running a few quests)
I will cut them down to section, post them then post hyperlink to first thread. Here is:-
PvP part 1
@adamantium
Must
- no open pvp in town
Should
- faction based pvp
- option to not join pvp
@khoraxgator
Must
- Players should not see it unless they are looking for it
- No PvP near public areas like near important npcs, bank etc.
Should
- No quest dealing with PvP
- No PvP in civilized areas (either not able to or an offense)
@andre
Must
- There should be PVP, but limited to designated areas only
Should
- Instanced PvP if possible
@me
Must
- Should be there but not forced
Maybe
- hidden unless you look for it
@higherfartesnow
Must
- be there but optional.
Should
- optional quests related to pvp(in pvp areas only)
- No pvp challanges outside of designates area
@torskaldr
Should
- Instanced (if technically possible) thus optional
@Vindicon
Must
- Optional and seperated frm PvE
Should
- PvP not a grind for items
@aethilgar
Must
- Should be there but consensual
- Area based PvP should be seperate than PvE
- Balancing PvE and PvP should be seperate
@lorddevilkun
Should
- Not be gear based
- PvP specific rewards
- Seperate balance for PvP and PvE
- Variety
Common grounds
If in future, some of the common grounds are opposed, we will have to reach another compromise again :-)
@adamantium
Must
- No policing of it
@khoraxgator(I didn't understand the lingo completely so am copy pasting it)
Must
- full suite of RP backdrops for players with a heightened griefer awareness
Should
- Griefing in these areas should carry a steeper penalty than in others
@andre
Must
- be RP friendly
Should
- announce an RP server in addition to the regular game server[probably not possible :-( ]
@higherfasternow
Should
- Allow you to switch to "hardcore RP settings" vs "No RP settings" (maybe slider)
- Seperate instance for RP if possible
@torskaldr
Must
- Optional. Freedom to run/walk and mount anywhere.
- Mods for counselling/warning RP disrupters in RP specific areas
Maybe
- Inside homes, walking maybe but running in town should be allowed.
@vindicon
Maybe
- an RP realm in the server
@Aethilgar
Maybe
- Server(I believe it has already been denied because of modern one server (in reality many small servers) low cost infrastructure)
Should
- No RP restrictions imposed
@lorddevilkun
Must
- Ability to make custom content with imposed rules of RP as per convininence, and ability to make it public(guild wide etc.)
Should
- Server (see above)
- Imposing basic rules in taverns
- PvP should also have RP (i.e. a story - why are you PvP-ing)
Common grounds
This one is tougher to agree on. Though I think this is the base:
PvP should be an option for entertainment purposes only. I have never enjoyed PvP in any game that is not directly a PvP game and I doubt that will ever change.
Beyond my lack of enjoyment from the PvP itself companies, especially MMO's, tend to then 'encourage' PvP to those who generally wouldn't be interested and twist it as 'high risk high reward' and 'thilling.' This does does nothing more than ruin the gameplay for Non-PvP Players and make good content unenjoyable. PvP has it's place but it is as it's own separate instance as optional enjoyment. No PvP unique rewards, no PvP unique training areas, no mixed environments.
PvP as a side game is something players either enjoy or they don't. It shouldn't be 'encouraged' to those who don't want to partake in it.
**A reward has to have some sort of beneficial attribute. I'm all for 'Achievements' or cosmetic rewards but don't give, for arguments sake, a +10 Keen Vorpal Weapon of Your Choice with +10d6 Elemental Damage for partaking or training in PvP areas.
*Not all players that partake in PvP are immature, but when forcing those who want to PvP and those who want to just play the game to mix it inadvertently promotes immature PvP. It's more akin to allow banditry and frankly stealing is only fun for the thieves. It's a crappy foundation for a game designed to be enjoyed to be built upon.
RP
I would prefer them split the game between the two styles of gameplay. Roleplaying is an all or nothing event so if not all players in an area desire to RP it kills the entire experience.
I'm not sure how they plan on running servers but if at all possible they should differenciate between RP servers and Action servers. Furthermore players should be permitted to switch characters between the two depending on their desired gameplay which is subject to change...hourly.
Gear variation
This would depend on the game itself but I lean towards low benefits. I am more of an idealist who holds D&D as a character game and not an item game. Items should be an extension of the character rather than a source of their power as they were in the recently released Diablo 3.
Game lore dictates magical items, let alone powerful ones, are rare and I prefer it to remain that way. Characters such as Drizzt Do'Urden are skilled characters aided by their magical gear and characters like Jarlaxle are not even supposed to exist. If +10 in NWO is the equivalent of +3 in PnP D&D then so be it as long as it's balanced but personally I'd rather see the low numbers rather than cloud the reality.
@adamantium
Must
- 15 to 20% (wow figures!)
Should
- skill triumphs gear
@khoraxgator
Must
- No powerful gear in shop
Should
- Lots of good looking gear
@andre
Must
- No pay-2-win gear
Should
- Good looking grind free gear
@me
Must
- Low dependence on gear
- If gear good, should be able to overcome by 'above average' skills or by taking more time etc.
@higerfasternow
- Random variation in gear.
- Ability to die or change appearence.
- High tier gear shouldn't be available at shops
@torskaldr
- Appearence and stat-building of gear should be seperate
- no seperate gears for pvp and pve
@vindicon
- player skill in RPGs should be third in importance behind character skill and gear as RPG is not FPS.
@aethilgar
- crafting by taking apart irrelevant gear
- equal gear to be earned' regardless of play style
- costume slots for appearence
@lorddevilkun
- Gear should be balanced for all classes.
- Focus on game not the gear at least until epic levels
- crafting
@ambisinister
- low benefits on gear for character progression to be the focus
Common grounds
- Player skills should triumph Vs Gear more important than skills in all traditional RPGs
- Crafting to replace grinding
- Ability to customize just the appearance
I applaud the spirit of this thread but feel that; in it's efforts to distill poster comments down to bullet-points and commonalities, detail is being lost and errors made.
For example; I didn't state that gear should 'compensate for a particular play style'. I said that 'equal gear to be earned' regardless of play style favoring none over another.
Eliminating 'the grind' isn't possible in most MMOs and tends to be one of the mechanisms that keeps people logging in... that next 'thing', be it gear, an achievement, a title, whatever. My comment was to make random gear earned through grinding useful via crafting. I.E. - My fighter grinds gear and earns a wand with +str on it; a completely randomized item. My fighter should be able to break down that str wand and use the components thereof as part of a recipe to make a similar +str sword. Thus, the randomized drop that made no sense before still becomes useful.
That is bound to happen as the opinions are not my own but by others. However, to get to common grounds we have to let go of many details and focus on end result on wishes themselves. e.g. forgetting why, how etc. of the stuff and focusing on what do you want and by how much?
That is why all corrections are much appreciated. Please keep correcting me in future if I misinterpret your opinions.
And if you believe my interpretation of common grounds is also biased, uninformed or plain wrong, let me know about that too.
EDIT: btw, forgot to add I made corrections as per your suggestions.