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Im a wizard Thaum and wondering if I should switch to arcanist.

jana#2651 jana Member Posts: 686 Arc User
Talking on reddit a few people recommended switching to arcane. How much do you lose if one does that and has anyone done that and found it worthwhile. I am a female sunelf wizard. 72.495 stats. ty for reading
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  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 7,152 Arc User
    You've got a second loadout available. Build the second as your Arcanist.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • strathkinstrathkin Member Posts: 1,798 Arc User
    Try both and see which you like as suggested above. I still find my Thaumaturge beat's out Arcane, yet I know some disagree.

    Previously I used to love Arcane far more...
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 12,406 Arc User
    edited October 2022
    strathkin said:

    Try both and see which you like as suggested above. I still find my Thaumaturge beat's out Arcane, yet I know some disagree.

    Previously I used to love Arcane far more...

    Thank you. I am new to be wizard. I have been doing Arcanist. I have only played it for 2 months. I am a newbie and a noob. It does not give me problem. I am not dying or laboring. I can solo sole contents like my other toons. This is my 9th 'real' toon. However, it was not "smooth". The rotation is a bit 'weird' for my play style. It has been 'awkward'. I disappointed with 'Disintegrate' and 'Steal Time' which I expected and thought they would be more powerful.

    When I started to play wizard, I keep hearing about doing Arcanist. That was the reason I use Arcanist. After reading your post, I went ahead to set up Thaumaturge loadout. My first feeling is it seems it is smoother and closer to my play style. My health bar seems to be "fuller". I will see if I like it more.

    Hence, thank you ... for the light bulb.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • arazith07arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,719 Arc User
    In M23(live) Arcanist is more powerful, especially with ST. However M24 (on preview now) has changes and today was really the first chance we all have had access to be able to test stuff so expect things to change.
  • jana#2651 jana Member Posts: 686 Arc User
    Thank you all for your answers. I played on the preview tonight and tried hell pit. The daily powers were both ice and I usually use an ice and fire, but it really rocked, I mean kicked. Both I have used before that I had on preview and I thought they were kind of insipid but it felt like some real punch. Is the preview that different?
  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 7,152 Arc User
    Preview has some of the upcoming wizard changes active, I'd assume.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • theelusiveone#4954 theelusiveone Member Posts: 177 Arc User
    I think preview has all the currently announced/known changes since yesterday's update. Might not be final of course.
    Kevfire
    Guild Leader
    Neverwinter SOLO Alliance
  • jana#2651 jana Member Posts: 686 Arc User
    Thank you all for your answers, since the last change I like the thaum a lot better. The Hell Pit is so much easier, and I even came in 3rd in damage dealt in the Lair of the Mad Magee. Which I am sure would be a bad day for most of you who answered and are use to being number one. but this made my day. Except I still cant ever jump up to where everyone else goes to fight with the rotating pictures, I only did once when I had a lot less stats.
  • muschellka#7783 muschellka Member Posts: 120 Arc User
    Meaning you managed to beat in dmg a tank and a healer? GG DD :)
    Pr0 tip:
    Press and hold space to make this high jump. Then use forward button to get into corridor.
  • hadestemplar#9918 hadestemplar Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,184 Arc User

    The Wizards update's are still in preview server, which is Test server, so no changes there are finall.
    There is no point to follow some other players "recommendations".

    Play paragon path which fit your play style, and don't run after meta. That never ends well.
    ========================================================================
    “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
    Gustave Le Bon.

    ==================================================
  • muschellka#7783 muschellka Member Posts: 120 Arc User
    What you wrote is complete nonsense.
    With such advice you make idiots out of people.
    Yes you should listen to the recommendations of players who know the game. Unless you can create a good build yourself.
    Otherwise you will always compete in dmg with healer....
    There are also some universal truths, easy to apply.
    E.g. for a start
    A good dps does not play with soul shield.
    In utilty does not put citrine.
    And as a bonus does not use stamina.
  • hadestemplar#9918 hadestemplar Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,184 Arc User

    What you wrote is complete nonsense.
    With such advice you make idiots out of people.
    Yes you should listen to the recommendations of players who know the game. Unless you can create a good build yourself.
    Otherwise you will always compete in dmg with healer....
    There are also some universal truths, easy to apply.
    E.g. for a start
    A good dps does not play with soul shield.
    In utilty does not put citrine.
    And as a bonus does not use stamina.

    You realize that Wizard fixing/bufing and balancing is not yet completed. And now you advice player to listen player who knows class. Hah. What a joke. Untill wizard changes goes live no one knows which build is better. Cuz preview = test server and there anything can be changed.

    And yet you think that player should follow some random reddit players advice.

    By the way whats wrong for having Citrine in utility slot?? CC resist is helpfull in pvp, and yet pvp is still alive, Thank you.


    But I guess you haven't participate in pvp, pitty.
    ========================================================================
    “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
    Gustave Le Bon.

    ==================================================
  • muschellka#7783 muschellka Member Posts: 120 Arc User
    Pvp is dead in this game since years.

    1.The future changes in cw will not make any of these 3 things I mentioned good for dps.
    2.No changes in cw will make you use different mounts in single target.
    3. Any changes in cw will not affect the choice of companions.

    Everyone has free two loadouts, one of them can be used for single target build (endgame players usually have more than two settings).
    Changes to cw will probably go live with mod 24, so in a few weeks.In your opinion, is it better to wait and keep sucking, or is it better to start learning how to play properly right away?

  • hadestemplar#9918 hadestemplar Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,184 Arc User
    edited October 2022

    Pvp is dead in this game since years.

    1.The future changes in cw will not make any of these 3 things I mentioned good for dps.
    2.No changes in cw will make you use different mounts in single target.
    3. Any changes in cw will not affect the choice of companions.

    Everyone has free two loadouts, one of them can be used for single target build (endgame players usually have more than two settings).
    Changes to cw will probably go live with mod 24, so in a few weeks.In your opinion, is it better to wait and keep sucking, or is it better to start learning how to play properly right away?

    Couple hours ago where in siege( 20 vs 20 pvp). So, does pvp dead?? On surface yes, yet players still arranging teams to do them. And it's rather active thing, and via same chat we also arranging domination pvp's too.

    Sorry that you didn't knew that, perhaps you should time to time log in to the game.

    As for your 1~3 things, keep that opinion for yourself. Obviously you know nothing about builds and synergies between companions/mounts/artefact and their sets..

    p.s your whole comment was more less as expected. Both about pvp and build thing..
    Post edited by hadestemplar#9918 on
    ========================================================================
    “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
    Gustave Le Bon.

    ==================================================
  • muschellka#7783 muschellka Member Posts: 120 Arc User
    LOL. That's basically all that can be answered to your fantasies.
    Your pvp is as vivid as your knowledge of the game.
    Once again, thanks for the discussion, because I would have to get down to your level, and I don't want that.
  • hadestemplar#9918 hadestemplar Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,184 Arc User
    edited October 2022

    LOL. That's basically all that can be answered to your fantasies.
    Your pvp is as vivid as your knowledge of the game.
    Once again, thanks for the discussion, because I would have to get down to your level, and I don't want that.

    And your reply is exactly what I was expected.

    When comes pvp, in game there is custom chat: Roar of the Pack Dye
    And also there is discord server under the name : Roar of the Pack.

    It's not hard to find it, if you look. But am sure you will not look and keep reapeating same troll chants. :)
    ========================================================================
    “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
    Gustave Le Bon.

    ==================================================
  • muschellka#7783 muschellka Member Posts: 120 Arc User
    However, I'll explain it because you don't seem to understand. Just because you and a few of your friends play pvp doesn't mean that anyone else besides you is also interested in it.
    The scale of this phenomenon is so marginal that it's not even funny. As long as you were able to do scams with rewards, you were pressuring new players to gain stats for you. Now you've fallen off from the bike and won't get back on it, because the devs said that pvp is not their priority. The End.

    They should, in my opinion, make it clear like with foundry: remove this cancer from the game completely.

    Next thing, however, since you provoked me to respond.
    I'd love to hear about "builds and synergies between companions/mounts/artefacts and their sets of which obviously I know nothing". Such knowledge is always worth listening to

    I would be happy to take the advice from an experienced buddy.
    I hope you have endgame content in one finger?
    After all, you did vos, hardcore vos, tomm, master zariel, cok new master tiamat and demogorgon, right?
    Well, surely, since you have so much to say on game issues....
    So I am listening.
    Because so far, besides negating the advices of others, you haven't written anything constructive.
    Your whole attitude reminds me of a barking dog that runs after a car and tries to bite its tire.
    Zero facts, lots of empty words.
  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 7,152 Arc User
    If they were to totally remove PVP from the game, I suspect a retooling of the Pass and the Valley would be essential.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • hadestemplar#9918 hadestemplar Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,184 Arc User
    edited October 2022
    greywynd said:

    If they were to totally remove PVP from the game, I suspect a retooling of the Pass and the Valley would be essential.

    If development team would want to remove pvp, they would have to remove icewind dale areas. Also this mean Ten town and Arcane brotherhood factions become nonsense too.
    Also team would have to remove Gauntlgrym ( 10 vs 10) Domination( 5 vs 5) and Guild siege ( 20 vs 20) instances from q list.
    Then remove from game pvp gears an vendors and currencies.

    But lets not forget event pvp ( April Fowls), also would get affected.
    Now do you think staff is bored and have nothing to do? I don't think so.


    The reasons why interest in pvp delined is long, but over all main reason why players stopped do pvp is due few reasons.

    1) Gear/boons breaking balance.

    Stronghold stamina drain Overload enchantment, put that on rogue, use stealth to get near player(victim) use any multi hit ability and each hit shred victims stamina. Which render him powerless, incapable to run/block in any ways counter incoming hits.
    The only way where to spot rogue from distance and when he get nera you, use artefact Lantern_of_Revelation.
    https://neverwinter.fandom.com/wiki/Lantern_of_Revelation

    This artefact forcefully remove rogues stealth, and make him visible.
    Also pvp boons, both campaign and stronghold also contributed a lot to disbalance.
    Like stronghold boon which ward against stamina drain or improve stamina drain.

    IF you have improve stamina drain, if player have just lv 1 stamina ward, even with overload enchantment ( stamina ward) you can't resist much.

    2) Pvp farming for pve stufs.
    The pvp seasons become yet another pve item farming area. Like enchantment stones, mark of potency and etc.
    Players used premade teams, to q for Domination solo q just to farm season points. Lot of times players even use multi accounts( alt accounts) to do that. Like x3 accounts from same pc. One player capture flags/points and rest of players just afk. Once done you repeat, I even so how few players used bots to do that too.


    Can pvp be fixed and make it good additional element in Neverwitner, oh yeah. Should developers work in pvp? Absolutely yes if they want bring at least some popularity for this game.

    Guild Wars 2 gained lot of popularity mostly due that it have mass pvp as additional content allong pve elements. Players loves to release soem steam in pvp grounds. Also competition which make players either get better gear/builds or get better in gameplay.
    Players love competition. Pure pve games last only so long till player compete content and repeat it twice or three times. After that it's become boring grind fiesta.
    Post edited by hadestemplar#9918 on
    ========================================================================
    “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
    Gustave Le Bon.

    ==================================================
  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 7,152 Arc User
    I can't help but notice that you didn't mention the toxic players that seemed to only be in PvP.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • hadestemplar#9918 hadestemplar Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,184 Arc User
    edited October 2022
    greywynd said:

    I can't help but notice that you didn't mention the toxic players that seemed to only be in PvP.


    In any mmo game which have competittive element you can always find toxic players. This is inevitable thing.
    It's part of any mmo games, just like other elements like cheaters and scammers.
    These things you can find in any mmo games, regarldess which type mmo or which genre of game would be.

    So there is no point to talk about such element which is part of mmo culture, you can't change players personalities.
    Cuz only games who do not suffer of these type players are only dead games.

    update: I see you don't want to agree on my statment, so I welcome you to try out any other mmo games which have pvp or any other form of competition. And good luck to find such game game where would be no toxic players.


    Post edited by hadestemplar#9918 on
    ========================================================================
    “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
    Gustave Le Bon.

    ==================================================
  • muschellka#7783 muschellka Member Posts: 120 Arc User
    As I see, I thought correctly that your shouts are just an empty words.
    You changed the subject and I'm still waiting for those synergies.... about which I "obviously know nothing" :)
  • mwkmwk Member Posts: 426 Arc User
    edited October 2022
    Some players use intelligence/charisma and others use intelligence/dexterity.

    I noticed THAUMATURGE gets more critical severity than ARCANE, when switching loadouts with the same intelligence/dexterity ability scores. Before forte, I used intelligence/dexterity. Though I might change it to intelligence/charisma? I don't play my wizard much. All my companion bonuses, mount bonuses, and etc are the same setup. So I don't know why THAUMATURGE gets more critical severity than ARCANE? I suggest staying with THAUMATURGE, just because of the more critical-severity gained from the start with the paragon. I know a player that has their main as a wizard and uses THAUMATURGE paragon path and that player does quite well with it.

    Do you need help with a build? I thought I'll put it out there for you to try on what helps me.



    @jana#2651
    Post edited by mwk on
  • badnickname#3262 badnickname Member Posts: 47 Arc User
    edited October 2022
    @mwk
    And I know why your thaumaturge has more crit severity than Arcanist. You using Critical Conflagration.


    Now thaumaturge deals miserable damage, especially on bosses. Look on cooldown on your last feat, Directed Flames. It has 12 sec cooldown. You can easily check in ACT how low damage smolder deals. On preview things looks different, but it's not optimal feat setup anyway.
  • jana#2651 jana Member Posts: 686 Arc User
    Ill have to try critical conflagration sometime, I like the orb of imposition-whatever it is-because increases the area you can do damage. Thank you for the answer. I had the wrong enchantments, Musselchelk was spot on about what was wrong with mine.
  • mwkmwk Member Posts: 426 Arc User
    edited October 2022
    It's like comparing Execution and Shadow's Flurry. I don't use Shadow's Flurry, because it only procs on Duelist Flurry. I'm moving a lot and dodging a lot, so I'm mostly using encounters to kill things most of the time. Each to their own, but I use Execution as a finisher really for stronger enemies.

    @badnickname#3262 Would you rather me use Rimefire Weaving? Honestly the other feat isn't that helpful either, however knowing I have instant 80% damage, every 12 seconds it helps. It takes more time for the rimefire to build up. And I'm comparing the critical severity without doing anything on both paragons. The Critical Conflagration applies only in battle.

    Honestly I don't know why my critical-severity is so high on Thaumaturge, when I'm using the same companion bonuses, boons, and insignia bonuses? I just noticed something and quite a big difference!

    Please keep in mind I might change to intelligence/charisma.





    Honestly I just giving my build out for something to try. I'm not here to recommend everything. I'm here to give a starting point for someone try out. At least it's not really bad at least for me. A starting point is always good for someone.

    @jana#2651
    Post edited by mwk on
  • badnickname#3262 badnickname Member Posts: 47 Arc User
    No. Crit severity from Critical Conflagration works even without combat. You can check it very easily. Look:
    My crit severity with Critical Conflagration slotted:



    My crit severity with Critical Conflagration unslotted:




    In your case, difference between arcanist and thaumaturge is 20%, because you using feat called "Critical Burn" which works as described:



    So, it's 10% form Critical Conflagration + 10% from Critical Burn.

    Besides, critical severity is just one stat. It won't help you much when your critical strike chance is low, not mentioning other stats. I can show you what part of damage currently smolder is, if you really want, but you will be disappointed.

  • mwkmwk Member Posts: 426 Arc User
    edited October 2022
    Oh l read ...and. 🤣 My bad. Though with Thuamaturge, you have it easier to cap the critical severity. I tried arcane paragon and I didn't enjoy it much. The best bet is always create two loadouts to see which paragon you want to use. Though I'm considering changing to charisma/intelligence now that knowing where the critical severity is coming from. Thanks.
  • badnickname#3262 badnickname Member Posts: 47 Arc User
    @mwk, yes, you should change to char/int.
  • mwkmwk Member Posts: 426 Arc User
    @badnickname#3262 Yeah I don't play my wizard much. Though again before forte, it was left as intelligence/dexterity.
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