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Tank threat generation.

wilbur626wilbur626 Member Posts: 901 Arc User
edited October 11 in General Discussion (PC)
@nitocris83 @noworries#8859

Hi!

After having tested Fighter Vanguard threat generation an absurd amount of times since the M16 changes to tank threat generation, I decided to collect information for all 3 tank paragons. The introduction of the training room would make this a lot more enjoyable than the hours spent hitting dummies in the Trade of Blades, as there is nothing that quite matches the feeling of getting interupted by a random player hitting the dummy for no reason at all after 491 at-will hits. The only thing stopping me from utilizing the training room for these tests, is the fact that you can not enter the training room with a party member ( @skingdev#1102 ).

These are the questions I would like to get answers to from the testing :

1. What is the base threat modifier for the Fighter, Barbarian and Paladin tank paragons ?
2. What % increase does the sentence "Increased Threat" translate to ? Is this the same for all paragons, or defined for each power ?
3. What % increase does powers that grant the effect "Your actions generate more threat" represent ? Is this the same for all paragons, or defined for each power ?
4. Do proximity play a role when it comes to aggro ?
5. Do control powers (Knock Back, Slow, Stun, Pull) generate threat ?
6. Do healing (Paladins Divine Touch) generate threat equal to threat generated by doing damage ?
7. Do self-healing (Fighters Second Wind, Barbarians Bloodletter + Primal Fury) generate threat equal to threat generated by doing damage ?
8. Do "overhealing" (healing over the amount of HP actually missing) generate threat, or is actual HP gained = threat generated ?
9. Will applying buffs/debuffs generate threat ?


In an effort to save myself from a few mental breakdowns, I decided to find every developer statement that could potentially ease the testing ;

I remembered a former dev giving details in the M16 Fighter feedback thread, but he is referring to possible changes before M16 launch :



Asterdahl giving details on threat in M16 Fighter feedback thread :




In these posts Asterdahl gives information that could answer a lot of the questions, but all testing done shows that the numbers are incorrect. @noworries#8859 stated that the base modifier for tanks was x4 in this interview :


The most interesting developer comment I found regarding threat generation was this :



The dev promises to provide FULL INFORMATION on tank threat modifiers "at some point in the future". Almost 3 years (and 6 full module releases) later, we still havent seen this information. The release of the Reapers Challenge could potentially mean a need for different tank loadouts, mening a perfect time to release this information.


Post edited by wilbur626 on
Elite Whaleboy

Comments

  • callumf#9018 callumf Member Posts: 1,514 Arc User
    [Great post, Ive been testing tanking after walking away from it 2 years ago to see how viable a 40k tank Fighter Vanguard is in today's NW World.

    This "4. Do proximity play a role when it comes to aggro ?" I have tested in Tiamat and I cant aggro mobs a certain distance away during the clerics phase to keep them away from the clerics. That could be because a) im not generating enough threat and b) DPS types tend to stand too close to the clerics.

    Not sure if that helps or not]
  • silente07#2597 silente07 Member Posts: 210 Arc User
    I’m going to shockingly agree with Wilbur on this.

    Just as a GF Tank, I have poor results from enforced threat vs line breaker due to AOE and targeting.

    But my Pally can grab attention from across a bridge.

    Clarity would be nice.
  • aragon#8379 aragon Member Posts: 64 Arc User
    Paladin Tank Threat
    These are my findings from my tests of Paladin Threat modifiers. Would be very nice if we could actually see these in-game and thus it can help us figure out how much offense we may need to ensure we can hold the aggro.


  • walker#8832 walker Member Posts: 73 Arc User
    edited October 15
    As it happens I've been experimenting with tank aggro as well, using different pally tank builds.

    I'd especially love to see more answers related to the Intimidating Presence feat (which I see on your chart there Aragon, thank you). It supposedly causes Divine Champion to "greatly" increase threat generation, and you lose the blocking benefit for that. I'm trying to figure out a way to make it a useful play option. You do get some fancy looking wings from it, so maybe it's at least good for picking up chicks? Hmmm

    If the Intimidating Presence version was redesigned to pulse out a "set me at top of threat list" taunt for the whole illuminated area around the Divine Champion tank, then I could see it being a useful option, and an interesting alternative to smite. For example, I suggest it could send out the first pulse after a 3 second delay, and then pulses every 3 seconds after that.
  • walker#8832 walker Member Posts: 73 Arc User
    edited October 16
    Just as a data point for comparison, about a year ago someone named Malistairetheundying commented on Reddit that the Ring of the Condemned +5 generates "around 100-200 magnitude damage worth of threat every second. This is roughly the same amount of threat an at-will with the Increased Threat bonus generates."

    That ring is a common tank tool for aggro, so it would be nice to confirm the info, and to know further details such as the radius of effect and if the ring's threat magnitude is increased/decreased by other threat factors.
  • walker#8832 walker Member Posts: 73 Arc User
    edited October 22
    Some test results. Friends and I did some testing to see if I could grab and/or hold aggro in combat with Intimidating Presence (IP) running plus any attacks that do not require divinity (aside from vow of course, which is already a taunt). We tested attacks that don't use divinity because the divinity is needed to keep the IP going for a useful amount of time.  So far the answer from the tests is no - not even close.

    I didn't have the brand new threat enhancing artifact set on for this, that should give some improvement, but I did have the aggro-while-moving ring on and the extra threat while standing still from the diamond artifact set. Survival oriented build with remainders into power.

    ps: Pumpkin-heads are the coolest, yay Halloween event B)
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