> @arkhadiam#2543 said: > New players can get to 40k in a few weeks, if they are lucky even unlock VoS in 3-4 weeks. You can get more than enough AD from randoms. > > Are you suggesting 40k can be achieved with RQs alone? > > I mean ... Ok, we assume the 3Ms are safe. For someone who, for example, has just reached the 80/20 level (it's the same for me), and who is in Vallenhas with the equipment obtained with the juuma bags, and little else ... maybe at 28-30k. You say that only in a month with the RQs it reaches 40k right? > > How does that work? ... does that person drop leg shards on all chests or does he drop 2-3 xunas a week?
Why would you limit yourself to using only gear obtained from Juma bags? You don’t need a single leg shard or Xuna drop to get to 40k.
RQs and Juma bags are just two of many things worth farming for new players.
I made a 100% free to play toon just to test this, and reached 36.000 item level in 44 hours spread over 8 days. All I need for further progress is a few companion token drops from Juma + Bel farm and/or legacy campaign quest currency.
You may think it’s stupid when people tell you that all you need is time, but that is the truth.
> @arkhadiam#2543 said: > New players can get to 40k in a few weeks, if they are lucky even unlock VoS in 3-4 weeks. You can get more than enough AD from randoms. > > Are you suggesting 40k can be achieved with RQs alone? > > I mean ... Ok, we assume the 3Ms are safe. For someone who, for example, has just reached the 80/20 level (it's the same for me), and who is in Vallenhas with the equipment obtained with the juuma bags, and little else ... maybe at 28-30k. You say that only in a month with the RQs it reaches 40k right? > > How does that work? ... does that person drop leg shards on all chests or does he drop 2-3 xunas a week?
Why would you limit yourself to using only gear obtained from Juma bags? You don’t need a single leg shard or Xuna drop to get to 40k.
RQs and Juma bags are just two of many things worth farming for new players.
I made a 100% free to play toon just to test this, and reached 36.000 item level in 44 hours spread over 8 days. All I need for further progress is a few companion token drops from Juma + Bel farm and/or legacy campaign quest currency.
You may think it’s stupid when people tell you that all you need is time, but that is the truth.
I actually suspect he's pushing this point because he's hoping people will supply him with easy AD making methods... either that or he's just too myopic to see outside of his very narrow appreciation of what's possible.
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plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,404Arc User
To be fair, a new player (as new to the game) would not know how to make AD and how to get stuff cheaper than they appear. Veterans know all the routes much better.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
To be fair, a new player (as new to the game) would not know how to make AD and how to get stuff cheaper than they appear. Veterans know all the routes much better.
This is exactly why I would love to see the introduction of a Juma-like vendor in PE! I dont think that making AD is the main issue when gearing up a new toon, getting mounts/companions/tokens is what slows the process. New players does not know that Juma has an incredible loot table or how to farm currency to buy his bags.
Honestly, he is acting like a child. I didn't say anything in opposition to him yet he feels the need to attack because he thinks I put "LOL" on any of his comments in this thread, which I didn't, I did so in another thread though. He is also going out of his way to be contradictory for no real reason when all someone wanted to do was praise the devs for doing stuff that benefited newer players.
This is someone there is no "winning" with, give new players stuff to get caught up faster and he complains what he worked for others can now get faster. Make it so it takes about a year for a new player to be fully end-game, that's too long its unfair.
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> @arkhadiam#2543 said: > @thefiresidecat > I have not said that it is a necessity to reach the end game, although I understand that in these games it is the objective. I have only limited myself to answering one question with some honesty. > From then on, several have commented that I am wrong. Okay. But the truth is that all those people have not yet said anything with precision that any new player can do to progress, except the usual ... "patience", "RQS", "Don't waste your AD / be smart buying" .... > > That's nice and true, but useless for someone who wants to progress towards mid / end-game, since what they really ask are continuous methods of getting AD.
You have an entertaining way of asking for help/advice 😂
To be fair, a new player (as new to the game) would not know how to make AD and how to get stuff cheaper than they appear. Veterans know all the routes much better.
true. it took me about a year to figure it out. at the time you could buy in the stock exchange too. I played the exchange A LOT it was also boring but it was a sure fired way to turn a nest egg of 1m ad into 3 and up. I never let my ad drop below 1m so I'd always have enough to invest to make more. that's gone now. after that I started paying attention to news and rumor mills that were valid rumor mills and tailoring speculative purchases to that. it works amazingly well if you have patience. don't play undercutting games and aren't afraid to do a little trading in pe when called for. knowing when things will be undercut and how badly they'll be undercut is part of the game. the first year I wasn't really trying too hard. if I had been aggressively trying to learn the market I probably would have gotten there much quicker. my way of making ad is always evolving.
a new player is just that and if you give them all the answers right away and give them all the same things have that a player who has been playing the game for years has they have no reason to play. I'm on pc again now. as a casual mastercrafter (levelling it up it was untouched) because there are goals there still.
On xbox, my toon is not optimally geared atm. but i have all the tools to be. I have spare r15 enchant packs. and weapon packs. my fortes are all maxxed etc. I have a couple t3 lures for avernus hanging around but didn't particularly like the attitudes around farming them in my last alliance so I never did it because I'm not into begging and I looked ahead and said why do I need this? lol. long story short is, there was nothing worth grinding for. the newest dungeons don't have any particular cool things to grab from them and I'm not into doing things just because. However, I do have years of investment of time and energy into this game so walking away isn't a something I do lightly. a newer player though. if you put them where I'm at now without the years behind them, they'll walk away.
imo it's already in the too easy too much handed to them with not enough content to be worth running zone. I don't think it's sustainable. For a long time this game has been wealth simulator neverwinter for me more so than the game itself although the game it self was also good. in the last couple years though it's flipped entirely to wealth simulator as the game for me. but now the economy is borked. they have been changing the core of the game too much in ways that fail over and over for years to the point that it's a bad idea to grind for anything because too much change is going to happen and they've been doing it at the expense of actually having playable content beyond heroic encounters.
@thefiresidecat I have not said that it is a necessity to reach the end game, although I understand that in these games it is the objective. I have only limited myself to answering one question with some honesty. From then on, several have commented that I am wrong. Okay. But the truth is that all those people have not yet said anything with precision that any new player can do to progress, except the usual ... "patience", "RQS", "Don't waste your AD / be smart buying" ....
That's nice and true, but useless for someone who wants to progress towards mid / end-game, since what they really ask are continuous methods of getting AD.
nothing is continuous in this game. there are ebbs and flows and its up to you ot learn them and find your own niche. you don't need all the things right away. you can play this game just fine now with r9's and what the game hands you levelling up and doing the campaigns.
> @arkhadiam#2543 said: > New players can get to 40k in a few weeks, if they are lucky even unlock VoS in 3-4 weeks. You can get more than enough AD from randoms. > > Are you suggesting 40k can be achieved with RQs alone? > > I mean ... Ok, we assume the 3Ms are safe. For someone who, for example, has just reached the 80/20 level (it's the same for me), and who is in Vallenhas with the equipment obtained with the juuma bags, and little else ... maybe at 28-30k. You say that only in a month with the RQs it reaches 40k right? > > How does that work? ... does that person drop leg shards on all chests or does he drop 2-3 xunas a week?
Why would you limit yourself to using only gear obtained from Juma bags? You don’t need a single leg shard or Xuna drop to get to 40k.
RQs and Juma bags are just two of many things worth farming for new players.
I made a 100% free to play toon just to test this, and reached 36.000 item level in 44 hours spread over 8 days. All I need for further progress is a few companion token drops from Juma + Bel farm and/or legacy campaign quest currency.
You may think it’s stupid when people tell you that all you need is time, but that is the truth.
I think a lot of it is mmo experience in general. when I flipped over to fallout 76 I was able to apply my knowledge of how to do it from neverwinter and become one of the people with everything in a couple weeks where I still see the complaints of how do you get caps on the message boards everywhere. once you know what to do it isnt' that difficult to look for the openings. For me, nw was my first mmo. not sure how common that is though
@arkhadiam#2543 why do you have the assumption that it needs to be easy for them to get to absolute end game? juma does supply end game mounts and comps. yes there will be some chickens too. but you can totally gear a toon and get forte via juma. as far as the assumption that you're mid level being stupid.. you are the one that put that assumption on that table. now you're calling people out for running with the assumption that YOU put forth. not really cool.
you do not NEED r15s. You do not NEED r14 weapon enchants to get by in this game. just doing campaigns and adventure zones puts you in a good space for mid to end game. new players do not NEED to be catapulted to end game right away and in fact it would be counter productive to do so.
@thefiresidecat I don't assume/need it to be easy, but to be achievable. After all the changes that have occurred in the last year, I see more likely that it is not. And hence my answer.
And with total respect, I have not made any assumptions. I only said that people were clear and precise, because generalities is the only thing that is said and that doesnt help anyone. If you understand that everything is like a pressure speech to force you to tell me about your secret farming mechanics ... well sorry, but it's stupid. Even more if I have 3-4 times more Zen / AD than the person who has raised that thesis. NonSense.
I just like people to speak honestly .... Are there stable and continuous sources of profit (they don't have to be "daily", but they don't have to wait weeks like in Es5) than players with 30- 35k can they do? They say yes .... perfect. Let's see, let it be shown to see if it is true.
ofc it's achievable. And the only one here that I see some doubt of speaking honestly is you. You keep making statements like, need it now. need it constant. and act like that is necessary for it to be achievable in the short term. when someone addresses something you've said with specifics you change the milestone.
You made statements that made it sound like it was you personally you were talking about with achieving these goals. Words mean things. you should really take a look at what you're saying and assess if it's really getting across what you mean because with the amount of changing the narrative you seem to be doing I come to one or two conclusions.
1. you are just trolling. 2. you're mostly trolling 3. yeah trolling. it's fun right. (who here is gonna says it's not.. )
I suggest you do what @wilbur626 is doing and start a new account and see how long it takes you to get there without spending anything. he's managed to get over 40k IIRC in a couple weeks. to get fully maxxed out it should be at least a year. there is no reason anyone needs to get there sooner and it gives a reason to log in and play. you need goals to enjoy a game like this. that's what it's about. if you get in and immediately do the highest tier you're not going to keep playing.
@thefiresidecat This guy contradicts himself all over the place, so yeah a troll who cannot be believed on anything he says. He won't take you up on the new toon suggestion as he doesn't actually care about new players!
He's just here for the lolz that we are feeding him...
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@wilbur626 Is that what you say is just the easy part. Although I don't know if it's really that easy to get to those 35k in a week, because to get to that point you need a bit of Bolster. As you are from PC and now they give more things, I can buy it for you.
Like I said, this is the easy part. The hit of reality comes from here. You assume that if in one week you have achieved 35k, in 1 month you achieve 40k, as if the progression of a toon's IL were linear and continuous.
Eh whatever, if he feels so bad about the newer players he can go do what I've done. Since the combat rework I've given just over 100m worth of stuff away to players, since he has 3-4 times what I have, he can go ahead and give 400m away without it hurting his pockets. Help those in need!
Sorry to hear there were players without enough mental capacity to figure out how to level up under the old ways. That is why we now have a new system that holds your hand and leads you like the mentally handicapped person through the store. If you are 1 of those people then maybe this game was/is to mentally challenging for you and maybe you should be playing a game more on your level like Chutes and ladders,but maybe that is something that would be beyond your ability also.
"What is the sense of living the life you're given if all you ever do is stand in one place?" Lord Huron
1
micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
Looks to me that there are two different things that mixed, and assumed. One is end-game, as in, newest content. Which usually is more difficult and require more gear than previous content. (Usually or more like in other games)
And there is BiS.
BiS is expensive, rank 15 are expensive, various mythic collars and bolsters are expensive. But all those millions and millions of AD are not needed for end-game. They are only needed for BiS, or if you want to carry, or want larger margin to make mistakes, or many other reasons, but still, to play end-game, you need much less. And most importantly the difference between that top and just bellow it is not linear, it's much more expensive to get from that 90% to 100% BiS than the peanuts it costs from some hypothetical 80% to 90%.
It's also not viable to upkeep "BiS". Look historically, you upgrade Black Ice enchants to 15, then you want radiants so you get those to 15 and then you want something else. Not to speak about all the time the progression changed, BiS was 13 and cost an arm and a leg, then one day Rank13 became worthless and 15 was the new thing. Cheaper and saner just to throw some rank 13 and be happy.
I digress, the point is that a player can get to end-game and play everything* without the implied costs that were brought up. It's better to have an active guild and such, to save time on grouping and play with communicative sane people over any material help.
*some exception apply where you just don't want to gear and run it, like Zariel, waste of content, waste of time.
3
micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
In fact, I don't need it. As of today I have my 55k toon, 4k of Zen and another 8k on the way. Plus about 4M in the bank. So that assumption you make is stupid, tbh.
To emphasize my previous point, I have a 'bit' more AD, more ZEN, but I don't have an over 50k char. The content just doesn't justify it, nor the futile chase of the hamster wheel.
Disclaimer though - haven't played seriously lately (can't see what I'm supposed to play).
I have to say the leveling or where to go (where I want) never seemed hard to figure when I first started. In fact, I didn’t think it was much of an open world (I don’t like the areas where you can’t cut through forest or something, but have to follow a long, twisty trail). Now, leveling seems like it’s on rails. You have to go to the next thing you’re told to go to, nowhere else, and there’s much less story and things to do, even in the areas that are still around - they’re ghost towns. I liked wandering around seeing what there was and what I could do, even if it insta-killed me, lol.
Anyway, I like stories, going where I want and messing around (not allowed on rooftops in many places), I don’t like rails. I don’t know that I would’ve gotten into this game if it was “full rail” leveling like it is now.
"When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser." - Socrates
Looks to me that there are two different things that mixed, and assumed. One is end-game, as in, newest content. Which usually is more difficult and require more gear than previous content. (Usually or more like in other games)
And there is BiS.
BiS is expensive, rank 15 are expensive, various mythic collars and bolsters are expensive. But all those millions and millions of AD are not needed for end-game. They are only needed for BiS, or if you want to carry, or want larger margin to make mistakes, or many other reasons, but still, to play end-game, you need much less. And most importantly the difference between that top and just bellow it is not linear, it's much more expensive to get from that 90% to 100% BiS than the peanuts it costs from some hypothetical 80% to 90%.
It's also not viable to upkeep "BiS". Look historically, you upgrade Black Ice enchants to 15, then you want radiants so you get those to 15 and then you want something else. Not to speak about all the time the progression changed, BiS was 13 and cost an arm and a leg, then one day Rank13 became worthless and 15 was the new thing. Cheaper and saner just to throw some rank 13 and be happy.
I digress, the point is that a player can get to end-game and play everything* without the implied costs that were brought up. It's better to have an active guild and such, to save time on grouping and play with communicative sane people over any material help.
*some exception apply where you just don't want to gear and run it, like Zariel, waste of content, waste of time.
Exactly. Great post.
I can run nearly all endgame at 52k item level. Not sure anything I have is BiS, stopped chasing BiS after River District, stopped chasing RNG 2 years ago, and I am so much happier.
Completed everything excluding: VOS, CR, Zariel Master and TOMM.
Didnt bother with those as they are a pain in the backside and take forever.
@op, not quite getting how you can comment on a journey for new players when you say latterly you used resources from your main tunes, i am assuming high level enchants, runes etc... that does not really reflect the journey for a new player without these resources to fall back on. I would agree that there are some things about m21 that are positive but as others have said there is heck of a lot more that is not.
@op, not quite getting how you can comment on a journey for new players when you say latterly you used resources from your main tunes, i am assuming high level enchants, runes etc... that does not really reflect the journey for a new player without these resources to fall back on. I would agree that there are some things about m21 that are positive but as others have said there is heck of a lot more that is not.
My comments weren't really directed for new players but for the leveling experience itself. I think the only thing I said about new players is this helps them more than before with what is given for leveling rewards. I also said my journey was done without passing things, that came after to round out the toon. All leveling content was done with what was provided along the way.
@op, not quite getting how you can comment on a journey for new players when you say latterly you used resources from your main tunes, i am assuming high level enchants, runes etc... that does not really reflect the journey for a new player without these resources to fall back on. I would agree that there are some things about m21 that are positive but as others have said there is heck of a lot more that is not.
My comments weren't really directed for new players but for the leveling experience itself. I think the only thing I said about new players is this helps them more than before with what is given for leveling rewards. I also said my journey was done without passing things, that came after to round out the toon. All leveling content was done with what was provided along the way.
Agree totally - I have run a few things I missed out on a toon, and the rewards really would give a true sense of progression.
Comments
> New players can get to 40k in a few weeks, if they are lucky even unlock VoS in 3-4 weeks. You can get more than enough AD from randoms.
>
> Are you suggesting 40k can be achieved with RQs alone?
>
> I mean ... Ok, we assume the 3Ms are safe. For someone who, for example, has just reached the 80/20 level (it's the same for me), and who is in Vallenhas with the equipment obtained with the juuma bags, and little else ... maybe at 28-30k. You say that only in a month with the RQs it reaches 40k right?
>
> How does that work? ... does that person drop leg shards on all chests or does he drop 2-3 xunas a week?
Why would you limit yourself to using only gear obtained from Juma bags? You don’t need a single leg shard or Xuna drop to get to 40k.
RQs and Juma bags are just two of many things worth farming for new players.
I made a 100% free to play toon just to test this, and reached 36.000 item level in 44 hours spread over 8 days. All I need for further progress is a few companion token drops from Juma + Bel farm and/or legacy campaign quest currency.
You may think it’s stupid when people tell you that all you need is time, but that is the truth.
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Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
This is someone there is no "winning" with, give new players stuff to get caught up faster and he complains what he worked for others can now get faster. Make it so it takes about a year for a new player to be fully end-game, that's too long its unfair.
I gave you a lol as well, just in case @sagakaiyume#0847 is right
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Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
> @thefiresidecat
> I have not said that it is a necessity to reach the end game, although I understand that in these games it is the objective. I have only limited myself to answering one question with some honesty.
> From then on, several have commented that I am wrong. Okay. But the truth is that all those people have not yet said anything with precision that any new player can do to progress, except the usual ... "patience", "RQS", "Don't waste your AD / be smart buying" ....
>
> That's nice and true, but useless for someone who wants to progress towards mid / end-game, since what they really ask are continuous methods of getting AD.
You have an entertaining way of asking for help/advice 😂
a new player is just that and if you give them all the answers right away and give them all the same things have that a player who has been playing the game for years has they have no reason to play. I'm on pc again now. as a casual mastercrafter (levelling it up it was untouched) because there are goals there still.
On xbox, my toon is not optimally geared atm. but i have all the tools to be. I have spare r15 enchant packs. and weapon packs. my fortes are all maxxed etc. I have a couple t3 lures for avernus hanging around but didn't particularly like the attitudes around farming them in my last alliance so I never did it because I'm not into begging and I looked ahead and said why do I need this? lol. long story short is, there was nothing worth grinding for. the newest dungeons don't have any particular cool things to grab from them and I'm not into doing things just because. However, I do have years of investment of time and energy into this game so walking away isn't a something I do lightly. a newer player though. if you put them where I'm at now without the years behind them, they'll walk away.
imo it's already in the too easy too much handed to them with not enough content to be worth running zone. I don't think it's sustainable. For a long time this game has been wealth simulator neverwinter for me more so than the game itself although the game it self was also good. in the last couple years though it's flipped entirely to wealth simulator as the game for me. but now the economy is borked. they have been changing the core of the game too much in ways that fail over and over for years to the point that it's a bad idea to grind for anything because too much change is going to happen and they've been doing it at the expense of actually having playable content beyond heroic encounters.
I think a lot of it is mmo experience in general. when I flipped over to fallout 76 I was able to apply my knowledge of how to do it from neverwinter and become one of the people with everything in a couple weeks where I still see the complaints of how do you get caps on the message boards everywhere. once you know what to do it isnt' that difficult to look for the openings. For me, nw was my first mmo. not sure how common that is though
you do not NEED r15s. You do not NEED r14 weapon enchants to get by in this game. just doing campaigns and adventure zones puts you in a good space for mid to end game. new players do not NEED to be catapulted to end game right away and in fact it would be counter productive to do so.
You keep making statements like, need it now. need it constant. and act like that is necessary for it to be achievable in the short term. when someone addresses something you've said with specifics you change the milestone.
You made statements that made it sound like it was you personally you were talking about with achieving these goals. Words mean things. you should really take a look at what you're saying and assess if it's really getting across what you mean because with the amount of changing the narrative you seem to be doing I come to one or two conclusions.
1. you are just trolling.
2. you're mostly trolling
3. yeah trolling. it's fun right. (who here is gonna says it's not.. )
I suggest you do what @wilbur626 is doing and start a new account and see how long it takes you to get there without spending anything. he's managed to get over 40k IIRC in a couple weeks. to get fully maxxed out it should be at least a year. there is no reason anyone needs to get there sooner and it gives a reason to log in and play. you need goals to enjoy a game like this. that's what it's about. if you get in and immediately do the highest tier you're not going to keep playing.
He's just here for the lolz that we are feeding him...
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Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
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Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
And there is BiS.
BiS is expensive, rank 15 are expensive, various mythic collars and bolsters are expensive. But all those millions and millions of AD are not needed for end-game. They are only needed for BiS, or if you want to carry, or want larger margin to make mistakes, or many other reasons, but still, to play end-game, you need much less. And most importantly the difference between that top and just bellow it is not linear, it's much more expensive to get from that 90% to 100% BiS than the peanuts it costs from some hypothetical 80% to 90%.
It's also not viable to upkeep "BiS". Look historically, you upgrade Black Ice enchants to 15, then you want radiants so you get those to 15 and then you want something else. Not to speak about all the time the progression changed, BiS was 13 and cost an arm and a leg, then one day Rank13 became worthless and 15 was the new thing. Cheaper and saner just to throw some rank 13 and be happy.
I digress, the point is that a player can get to end-game and play everything* without the implied costs that were brought up. It's better to have an active guild and such, to save time on grouping and play with communicative sane people over any material help.
*some exception apply where you just don't want to gear and run it, like Zariel, waste of content, waste of time.
Disclaimer though - haven't played seriously lately (can't see what I'm supposed to play).
Anyway, I like stories, going where I want and messing around (not allowed on rooftops in many places), I don’t like rails. I don’t know that I would’ve gotten into this game if it was “full rail” leveling like it is now.
I can run nearly all endgame at 52k item level. Not sure anything I have is BiS, stopped chasing BiS after River District, stopped chasing RNG 2 years ago, and I am so much happier.
Completed everything excluding: VOS, CR, Zariel Master and TOMM.
Didnt bother with those as they are a pain in the backside and take forever.
I would agree that there are some things about m21 that are positive but as others have said there is heck of a lot more that is not.