Band of Air

ene

Hi @development @nitocris83 ... I tested the Band of Air with a tr and hr look what a big difference.
I am a cleric arbiter.
VOS HC:
DC: 84 hits (7.400.000)
TR: 198 hits (18.300.000)
HR: 205 hits (21.200.000)

Why all this difference? Always the class that uses DOT or or many shots has an advantage ... it is unfair ...
The cleric arbiter is the class that is losing the most in this MOD. Change the proc of the rings, thanks.

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ukspawn

Jesus christ.

Wrong focus within wrong focus.

Why is it whenever any item with an edge or class edge, disregard-less of the extremities for the sale of argument (yes, rings were op), someone has to HAMSTER and moan about the balance in an irrelevant and non-sensical way.

This will fall on deaf ears but there is too much focus on the wrong issues. Peoples idea of class balance is that everything should be 100% equal, whether it’s due to a bigger disparity stemming from a ring or something minor.
1) this will never happen
2) this should never happen

Classes, even within similar paragons, dps, need variance, otherwise you create a boring dystopia where you and your thousand other clones wake up in unison everyday, do the exact same thing, with the exact same numbers, with the exact same effects, collecting the same rewards… oh wait. The only variance being your transmute.

The Arbiter should not be equal to other Dps, classes, as a whisperknife should not be equal to ranger, the problem in the game is role limitations for the content, not how much dps difference a poxy ring gives. The underlying issue to this is content itself.

If the rogue or hunter had a heal path but couldn’t benefit from the same level of healing as a cleric, are people seriously going to complain? Absolutely they will, should they? No, they’re idiots.

Yet another problem is too much self-centred focus. People only care when it impacts them and only when it’s a negative impact (classes).

If people put as much focus into the broader range of issues in the game and stopped focusing on singular irregularities, maybe we’d get some relevant improvements.

jules

ukspawn said:

Classes, even within similar paragons, dps, need variance, otherwise you create a boring dystopia where you and your thousand other clones wake up in unison everyday, do the exact same thing, with the exact same numbers, with the exact same effects, collecting the same rewards… oh wait. The only variance being your transmute.

100% - but what came first, the content demanding classes to be different or the different classes...
There is no real need for anything "different" than a say, "dps". A dd that deals a lot of dmg, specifically against ST because there is not really much need for a pure AOE cleaner anymore (or, thinking back, CC).
I really like your post, but I do not see it happening in NW-aprés-M16.

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tchefi

jules#6770 said:

in NW-aprés-M16.

è ( :P )

In order to see classes with meaningful differences and without players complaining about pure dps balance, Neverwinter has to deal with 2 core issues :

- endgame content is (and was in most of previous modules) too much driven by single target fights (ToMM, Zariel, boss 2 and 3 in VoS), and when bosses have adds they usually aren't a big threat (either because they die quickly or don't do much damages) and too much on what I would call positionnal "dancing" mechanics (rythmic, as a 3-beats waltz, move-fight-boss mech red splash-move-fight-boss mech red splash) if you don't ignore it at all.

For dps archetype, those are close to be pure dps contest. We aren't far from "dummy-fights". This encourages players to compete/compare on the paingiver weenie-meter because nothing else matters once you have learnt the dance.

- Fights are either :
* trash mobs that usually aren't really dangerous for the party (no real threat of wipping), and wherever you are, those fights are quite all the same
* a lone boss
* a boss + relatively normal fighting adds.
The diversity of potential tactical situations is quite low in Neverwinter.
Lack of different tactical situations means lack of possible class advantages/disadvantages.



I would like to see more diversity.
More uses of the lign of sight. More usage of pits (to push or be pushed to death). Multi floors fights (ground/balcony). Ranged AI able to kite vs melee. Unvulnerable foe(s) you must control. Etc, etc.

jules

> @tchefi#6735 said:
> è ( :P )

Thanks! And props to you for the weenie-meter. Will add that to my list.

ene

my thread is referring to the ring having more activations with DPS classes that do several hits and DOT than the cleric who does half of half the hits of any DPS class and I don't find it fair that I can't make the most of the ring for this thing.
Why can't my class (cleric arbiter) benefit from the ring like other classes?
It is not only TR or HR, but also the CW that makes so many hits, the ring activates more.
I farmed 2 weeks afternoon and evening to have an extra burst but there is a huge difference...

plasticbat

ene#5785 said:

my thread is referring to the ring having more activations with DPS classes that do several hits and DOT than the cleric who does half of half the hits of any DPS class and I don't find it fair that I can't make the most of the ring for this thing.
Why can't my class (cleric arbiter) benefit from the ring like other classes?
It is not only TR or HR, but also the CW that makes so many hits, the ring activates more.
I farmed 2 weeks afternoon and evening to have an extra burst but there is a difference ernome...

What is new? Certain gear benefit DPS. Certain gear benefit tank. Certain gear benefit healer. Certain gear benefit a specific class. Certain gear benefit a specific build. Certain gear benefit rapid hit. Certain gear benefit burst hit ....

By the way, do you use Searing Javelin?

blargskull

Here is the issue everyone has about the thread and how it is worded @ene#5785 ...

I came into the game back in 2015 and my very first character was a TR. Everyone started hating on me, why?? They told me people didn't like the TR because it was OP in PvP. But I don't play PvP! I am into RP (role-playing) and I loved the teleport powers and how the class functioned back in module 5. Since then they have ripped the stuffings out of the TR. I can no longer teleport on rooftops in PE, just because someone complained about it. I am not getting an unfair advantage teleporting about in the game hub! Unless there is an event, PE has nothing to do but RP. Then in module 16 they made the teleport skill restricted to only the Whisper-knife. If I want the nerfed teleport skill now, I have to use the Whisper-knife build.

Every time someone brings up anything like, class XYZ has an unfair advantage, the developers put it up on their whiteboard in big bold letters; Remember to NERF CLASS XYZ. They did this with more than the TR, it is just PvP was strong back in module 5 and people didn't like the other team having the rogue who could turn invisible and pop up behind you. PvP was mismanaged real bad. After module 6 dropped we had Oathbound Paladins, who could tank the other team into submission.

Instead of fixing the game, they nerf a dozen stats on just one character. At this point can I suggest clerics spread love and joy, and instead of raining all that nasty fire from the sky, rainbows and puppies fall on the enemy? If the game is still around for another year, they might get around to nerfing your over powered cleric.

ene

I do not understand everything that is happening to me, I just pointed out that on the cleric DPS it activates little compared to other classes precisely because it makes few hits.

greywynd

It may not DoT but the Arbiter can hit like a sledge hammer.

mparcher

To be fair, the TR, HR and the CW should benefit most from these rings. They only have one role in the game.

hotfrostworm

I playtest as a cleric most of the time. I don't have any issues killing stuff in this module. I even managed to get my low item level cleric inside Sharandar before the doors locked. While my cleric is level 80, it is indeed one of the more powerful characters. I was able to do most quests in Avernus and Vallenhas with him. But my cleric is not what the players call "best in slot" in fact, my cleric has very low rank armor and his support companion is blue rank, just like his armor. The item level isn't very high but you be the judge.

Pretty sad when I can run this through to end game content? Doesn't matter to me about the mechanics, I just test the A/V most of the time, try to help where it is needed.

ene#5785 said:

I do not understand everything that is happening to me, I just pointed out that on the cleric DPS it activates little compared to other classes precisely because it makes few hits.

It isn't about what you posted, the second post in this thread is not helping your objective at all. From what you stated, I expect you are looking for the balance to the ring. Maybe if you had some combat logs people here could compare the builds of cleric, rouge, wizard, and ranger. Then maybe they have something else in their builds that would explain why the cleric is not using this ring to the best of their ability.

armadeonx

Does the ring proc from companion active bonuses that add poison or bleeding damage from your attacks? If it does, they would give you the dots?

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destrion

this would be a lot less of a problem if the rings wouldn't be bount to character, grinding for a dps item that is not as effective on the class you're playing as sucks a bit and not being able to use that item on a dps class that could make 2 or 3 times better use of it because it is bound to character on pickup is even more annoying

ene

hotfrostworm said:

I playtest as a cleric most of the time. I don't have any issues killing stuff in this module. I even managed to get my low item level cleric inside Sharandar before the doors locked. While my cleric is level 80, it is indeed one of the more powerful characters. I was able to do most quests in Avernus and Vallenhas with him. But my cleric is not what the players call "best in slot" in fact, my cleric has very low rank armor and his support companion is blue rank, just like his armor. The item level isn't very high but you be the judge.

Pretty sad when I can run this through to end game content? Doesn't matter to me about the mechanics, I just test the A/V most of the time, try to help where it is needed.

ene#5785 said:

I do not understand everything that is happening to me, I just pointed out that on the cleric DPS it activates little compared to other classes precisely because it makes few hits.

It isn't about what you posted, the second post in this thread is not helping your objective at all. From what you stated, I expect you are looking for the balance to the ring. Maybe if you had some combat logs people here could compare the builds of cleric, rouge, wizard, and ranger. Then maybe they have something else in their builds that would explain why the cleric is not using this ring to the best of their ability.

He's not using it because the dps cleric makes few hits and the ring has 10% activation. The more hits you make the more it activates. If a tr makes 4000 hits, the cleric will make 900. If he has a 10% activation, 40 ring procs against the cleric's 9 of the same magnitude. It doesn't seem very balanced to me. Had they kept it as before, or as a multiplier of your damage, it managed to balance the issue of 10% activation.

ene

The point is ... right out of the box the rings were based on your damage multiplier with 10% activation. That they broke them with the next patch is certainly not my fault, but they should remove the fixed magnitude of the ring (probably it was put because they can't solve the multiplier problem).

In summary:
TR: Total 8046 hits | proc ring 198 | total damage: 18,933,488 (ring only)
DC arbiter: total 3573 hits, ring proc 84 | total damage: 7,469,764 (ring only)
All this because the ring has a fixed magnitude and 10% activation on the shots you make.
As you can see the proc on the DC is very low because it doesn't hit many hits.
I just want it balanced for classes that sadly have no DOT or few hits.

finmakin

ene#5785 said:

Hi @development @nitocris83 ... I tested the Band of Air with a tr and hr look what a big difference.
I am a cleric arbiter.
VOS HC:
DC: 84 hits (7.400.000)
TR: 198 hits (18.300.000)
HR: 205 hits (21.200.000)

Why all this difference? Always the class that uses DOT or or many shots has an advantage ... it is unfair ...
The cleric arbiter is the class that is losing the most in this MOD. Change the proc of the rings, thanks.

What about tanks ?

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ene

finmakin said:

What about tanks ?

I can say the same for the healer = / I'm talking about the difference the ring makes on DPS.
If you have a complaint that the TANK doesn't need anything, create a thread or send a ticket directly. Simple.
You ask for feedback and you always have to talk about something else.

arkhadiam#2543 said:

All that is very good ,,,, but: exactly what do you propose in order to balance?

That they removed the fixed magnitude and put as a multiplier of your damage to equalize the few hits of the DC with the many hits of the TR / HR / CW / SW.

I repeat for the umpteenth time.
I don't find it fair that I care less just because I do the third of the shots that all the other DPS do. Point and close it here.

mushellka

I really disliked when DC was dealing unimaginable damage a few months ago. And yet I did not called for "balancing" this class. The nerf you're asking for (yes, a nerf, not a balance) is a result of your frustration that DC isn't in the same place as before. Well. Every class had its "five minutes".
So leave the rings alone.
Don't be a dog in the manger. . .

armadeonx

Mushellka has a point - any DC who kept quiet when the arbiter was top dps really has no right to be complaining now. I actually seem to remember some DCs defending the amount of damage they did compared to other classes.

The devs have reduced the damage output of the rings as there was a multiplier issue, but it's extremely unlikely they will change the manner in which it deals damage.

jules

armadeonx said:

Mushellka has a point - any DC who kept quiet when the arbiter was top dps really has no right to be complaining now. I actually seem to remember some DCs defending the amount of damage they did compared to other classes.

Eh, yes. I recall it "its a difficult playstyle and it only put out insane numbers if all stars align and" whatever, basically.
In general, more difficult playstyles (compare Warden to Hunter "Trapper") should put out better numbers if the same ("skilled") player tries one vs the other...
But its always a good sign if all kind of people on your friendslist are starting/taking out their DCs or ... any other class really.

E... corpse from another edit

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armadeonx

jules#6770 said:

armadeonx said:

Mushellka has a point - any DC who kept quiet when the arbiter was top dps really has no right to be complaining now. I actually seem to remember some DCs defending the amount of damage they did compared to other classes.

Eh, yes. I recall it "its a difficult playstyle and it only put out insane numbers if all stars align and" whatever, basically.
In general, more difficult playstyles (compare Warden to Hunter "Trapper") should put out better numbers if the same ("skilled") player tries one vs the other...
But its always a good sign if all kind of people on your friendslist are starting/taking out their DCs or ... any other class really.

E... corpse from another edit

I have to admit that my DC is always used as a healer in group content, it's the reason why it was created as I like playing support.

I've always used arbiter only for soloing and I currently find that when compared to my equal IL ranger, the ranger does better dps but has lower survivability, but I only run healer gear on my DC even when soloing so if I swapped out his weapons, weapon enchantment and artifact set I would definitely expect my cleric to catch up with my ranger on dps.

I am biased though - I have an innate feeling that clerics are supposed to be healers so I may be viewing things through that lens.

jules

armadeonx said:

jules#6770 said:

armadeonx said:

Mushellka has a point - any DC who kept quiet when the arbiter was top dps really has no right to be complaining now. I actually seem to remember some DCs defending the amount of damage they did compared to other classes.

Eh, yes. I recall it "its a difficult playstyle and it only put out insane numbers if all stars align and" whatever, basically.
In general, more difficult playstyles (compare Warden to Hunter "Trapper") should put out better numbers if the same ("skilled") player tries one vs the other...
But its always a good sign if all kind of people on your friendslist are starting/taking out their DCs or ... any other class really.

E... corpse from another edit

I have to admit that my DC is always used as a healer in group content, it's the reason why it was created as I like playing support.

I've always used arbiter only for soloing and I currently find that when compared to my equal IL ranger, the ranger does better dps but has lower survivability, but I only run healer gear on my DC even when soloing so if I swapped out his weapons, weapon enchantment and artifact set I would definitely expect my cleric to catch up with my ranger on dps.

I am biased though - I have an innate feeling that clerics are supposed to be healers so I may be viewing things through that lens.

I do remember running my old trapper back in Mod 13 or whatever and I was doing etos, no surprises there, and in my party there was a dodc running as "dps", and it was the first time I thought "oh cool" when seeing it. There is always something fascinating when you are new to a game and expect things to be in a certain way (dc healing/buffing) and they turn out quite different. It was one of the best dcs in the game that prolly would have outdpsd us on his healing spec, but he did have quite the awesome dps set up.

Anyway... I liked Arbiter doing good dps - and it should keep doing good dps, not dumb good dps - because it is the difference in playstyle that the game really really needs. It really does. A TR and a Warden already feel similar enough, and all dps specs already feel like "just dps" with not much flavor - trying Arbiter, with Perfect Balance and everything "aligning" felt quite cool, if only my toons wouldn't suck so bad.

I play Warden and I am a lazy HAMSTER who just does a lot of weird stuff in game, but even I know that if I kicked my HAMSTER hard enough and tried (not gonna happen, hypothetically) my best on the Hunter, that it should (deserves to) be better than the Warden. Imo, at least. Am biased, used to play trapper back with the old skill tree (when it resembled a skill tree)

rockster

Skill tree when everyone was slightly different like a fingerprint because there were so many variations you could create with those limited points. I miss that system.